Was Kain's casting Raziel into the Abyss an act of jealousy, or the first real move in his quest against destiny?

Was Kain's casting Raziel into the Abyss an act of jealousy, or the first real move in his quest against destiny?

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Both thanks to time travel shenanigans. But he was genuinely mad jelly.

The former. Then he realized that he could use this to his advantage in "defying the stars" so then it became the latter.

This thread..What a coincidence, was playing Guardian of the Light with the Kain and Raziel DLC just a while ago

Kain was deified

I know you Raziel.

What? I'm pretty sure he saw in the time machine that Raziel needed to be thrown into the Abyss once his wings came out to put in motion the complex schemes Kain had invented to defeat fate.

He wasn't jelly, that was only Raziel's assumption and his wings were the signal for Kain that it was finally time to act.

Poor man knew he had to kill his son since from the start and patiently waited for his wings to grow so that he could throw him into burning water

The clans told tails of him.

youtube.com/watch?v=YNWSDvDqm9g

At that point Kain was practicaly a God to a dying Nosgoth (pun intended)
When Raziel "wraithified" he alone challenged Kain in the future after he came out of the pool.
And ever since the breaking of Reaver on Raziel- Kain realized the path their fates will go and knew something is manipulating them both.
Its at that point Kain rethink and stats using Raziel as a tool for knowledge.
Also - ITT best game ever written/voice acted to date

Was the Kain Raziel meets below Janos's ruined aerie in SR2 the future-era Kain, learning to use the Chronoplast after establishing his empire, or the post-future-era (same Kain he interacts with throughout SR2) Kain?

Purely the latter. He knew somebody was going to sprout wings, he was just waiting for it to happen so that he could start his fight against destiny. Envy doesn't make any sense in this situation because he already knows whoever evolves first is going to get fucked by acid for eternity.

> yfw you always seen this game at the rental store as a kid but thought it was shit.

then you finally played it and was blown away

how would they be fucked by acid?

Why would raziel spouting wings be a signal for the time to act? Never got this.

Even sadder than that, I'm pretty sure there was a line of dialogue about him knowing it would be one of his generals but being surprised and disappointed when it was Raziel, who was his favorite of the bunch and right hand man.

Every once in a while I see fanart like this and I'm reminded that yes, this was indeed written by a woman.

Didn't you see the dozens and dozens of murals of winged vampires in all of the Soul Reaver games past 1?

is that a good or bad thing?

The generals were all pretty sexy before evolving into hideous monsters. Especially Rahab and Raziel.

Because he saw the murals in the Chronoplast chambers and the ruins of the Vampires. The Champion of the Vampires/Hylden and the whole Destroyer/Redeemer thing.

Wings appearing = The time has come for the whole thing to happen

Sadly this.
When I got it - I was put away by convoluted english I didn't quite understand
Got stuck on a 1st puzzle in Soul Reaver After I pushed a stone block off the platform
Quit the game cus I thought it was bugged.
Being the tryhard nerd I couldn't handle a defeat. Let the game afk for 2 years, more game of the franchise came out. Get angry cus all the good review scores
Restart Soul Reaver1. English knowledge - supreme, body status - ready
Pass the dumb stone cube puzzle and start paving my way trough the game
>MFW it becomes the best series ever made ever for me

The original vampires had wings too and some of the murals Kain saw had a winged vampire saving everyone from what i remember.

You're on Sup Forums, I think you can guess.

Indifferent, really. Just something I tend to forget.

For all the shit Nosgoth gets, I'm still glad to see some vamps in action. And at least it wasn't the assfaggots that saw the light.

You gotta wonder how Kain deals with his permadeath at the end of Defiance

Still the best writer in gaming industry unmatched by anyone. Amy is fucking based God of text

Jealously that his transformation was an og winged old one, kain a bitch

Because they needed to be tossed into the abyss, which was basically acid to vampires.

>be reading on the wiki
>if you don't attack the humans in SR1, they'll be friendly to after a while

Untill he decides to fix the pillars, fix everything gone wrong - Kain will be immortal. That is explained. His role is keeping him alive at this point.
>The coin is still spinning, endgame not yet revealed

Shes the only reason Uncharted was any good

why did they need to be tossed into the abyss?

So that they could be reborn as an undying abomination capable of turning destiny on its head.

What's the best way to understand the lore in it's entirety? I don't think i'll fare well with the blood omen game's since they're really really old now.

I think he meant Raziel's death.

>"You're a righteous fiend aren't you?"
>"Apparently I am."

Best scene in the series, famalam.

I just remember they either fear or worship you based on how you treat the neutral humans. The soldiers still attack you, naturally.

I will never get the hate for Blood Omen, it's still very much a great game.

By taking really good care of his soul, I guess.

watch the dialogue only videos for BO1
BO2 you can play if you want but it's not necessary but there is one scene that redeems drudgery that game turned out to be

i liked the exploration in soul reaver 1 and the lore kept me playing all the subsequent games

good thing both kain and raziel had great VAs (they are british though so it's a given theyd be good)

Shit, I just realized the 10th year anniversary of this franchise is coming up.

Damn but time flies.

Yeah. And when Amy leaves this world the best awarded stories will be
"You are chosen hero! You must stop evil black dragon cus it says so in this magical scroll that appeared! Also you need to fix politics. But neither of the two will change the world. Mod the game plz"
Or
"HURR I WAS FROZEN FOR 1000 YEARS CUS EVERYTHING ALIVE IS SKELLY AND RUINED! I AM LOOKING FOR A BABY!
HE IS TOTTALY NOT THE MISTERIOUS FIGURE TRYING TO KILL ME AT EVERY STEP HE IS A B-A-B-Y BOY! Plz Mod the game"
This is the future of 9/10 writting.
ANd it makes me angry.
Yes- not every game should be LoK- Uncharted levels of great, but at least some fucking afterthough at what you write and how retarded it actually is.
Diablo 3 comes to mind. Fun game ruined by idiotic piss poor 2 year old's vision of Diablo World.
Horrible horrible writting.

Do I need to play Blood Omen to understand the serie or Soul Reaver is enough?

Raziel didn't die. He was completed.
Instead of having a buddy he now has a very powerful "cursed/possesed weapon" So its just a new level of existence.

Blood Omen 1 only gets praise from what I've seen. 2 gets a lot of flak because it had different writers, and it forced Amy Hennig to retcon a few things to make the series cogent but the gameplay is still fantastic and Kain is as great as ever in it. I guess people forget about how fun it was and just complain about the story stuff.

Raziel going insane in the sword is pretty much destiny. What happened to raziel in defiance is that he changed his ultimate fate from an ouroboros to a final death when he gave his soul form purified reaver to kain.

KAIN IS DEIFIED

>What's the best way to understand the lore in it's entirety?
By playing the games.

water is like acid
the abyss was just a whirlpool

Both Blood Omen games play perfectly. 1 is basically a 10/10 TLoZ clone, and 2 plays just like Soul Reaver 2. If you skip them you'll seriously be missing out.

Blood omen mostly becomes relevant in 2 and defiance. Just watch a lets play honestly. Blood omen 2 is kind of relevant too in defiance to but its so shit i wouldnt blame you for skipping it.

I personally watched Blood Omens story bits, all 2 hours of them, on Youtube and then played the Soul Reaver. It's not strictly necessary but you'll get a bit more out of it.

Sort of. It gives you the backdrop for the franchise. Soul Reaver games make enough mention of it that you actually won't need to play it if you want except BO2. If you didn't play BO2, you are going to be so confused at... SR2 or 3 I think.

see unless you really think you want to play the original game

>Just watch a lets play honestly
>honestly
Death would be a release from this parody

THE HEART OF DARKNESS
THE HEART OF DARKNESS
THE HEART OF DARKNESS
THE HEART
THE HEART
THE HAER
THE HAE
THE HAE
THE HA
THE H
TH
T
THE HEART OF DARKNESS

Jealousy. It wasn't until much later Kane realized his empire was doomed to decay.

I'M UNARMED
I'M UNARMED
I'M UNARMED

Is that you so? You'll forgive me if I do not naively devour every scrap of information you toss me.

THE CLANS TELL STORIES ABOUT HIM

Just play the whole series. They're all great games and you'd be doing yourself a huge disservice by letting Youtube videos be your only experience with them.

Tales of him. Dammit user you only had one thing.

I haven't played the game in like 10 years and i originally played it in spanish. I can recite the whole game by memory on spanish. But i only played it once in english so i kinda miss the phrases, sorry

Why pretend to know anything about the series when you didn't even play it?

>Go across that room a bunch of times in the game
>Last cutscene with the reaver stuck in Raziel
>camera pans up and out
>The floor is carved as a goddamned ouroboros

Genuinely blew my mind the first time I played it.

20th

That's a pretty esoteric way of looking at it, user. Personally I'd just call it death.

I wonder when they'll bring out the inevitable remake/remaster.

Oh yeah. What I meant.

Does LoK have great writing? If so are there any games similar in vein to quality of writing? Maybe Planescape Torment?

You're worthy

Eidos has succesfully adapted Tomb Raider and Deus Ex, so i don't see a problem with that.
Still, who has the rights to the franchise? Last think i knew there was a legal dispute between Silicon Knights and Eidos

LoK has alright writing. It's the voice actors that really make it special. Planescape Torment is more nuanced.

Nah, he did it with his plot to overturn destiny in mind

GIVEN THE CHOICE, WETHER TO RULE A CORRUPT FAILING EMPIRE, OR TO CHALLENGE THE FATES FOR ANOTHER THROW, A BETTER THROW, AGAINST ONES DESTINY, WHAT WAS A KING TO DO...BUT DOES ONE TRULY EVER HAVE A CHOICE?

ONE CAN ONLY MATCH, MOVE MY MOVE, THE MACHINATIONS OF FATE, AND THUS DEFY THE TIRANITY OF THE STARS


I get fucking goosebumps from that intro.

>Eidos has succesfully adapted Deus Ex
You're joking, right?

>tfw marathoned the series earlier this year

What a fucking adventure.

I hope it stays in Limbo.

LoK has some excellent writing, but mostly in the sense of the dialogue, which is backed up by fantastic voice acting.

It wouldn't be the same without Tony Jay, though.

no it's better than alright

youtube.com/watch?v=5kDzqScUs-E

SR2 remake/remaster might work if they use only the original voice files, as there is seriously no fucking way in hell they could make the gameplay worse, no matter how hard they tried. It's impossible.

But with SR1 there is a lot more room for fuck up, so that might not be such a great idea.

They're different. Planscape relies on player interaction, LoK is just telling a story.

>TIRANITY

It's Tyranny, dumbshit.

No, Kain knew the future before casting Raziel into the Lake of the Dead.

Also, look at Kain's face when he says "cast him in". He doesn't look that happy. More like he feels sorry.

Excuse me? The DX precuels are pretty good and really faithful to the original game. MD ending was awful but i loved the whole game

Raziel deals with the same Kain throughout the entire series.

If the Kain below Janos' mountains was a Kain that had only just established his empire, then he would not have been as evolved as the post SR Kain

Story wise, there has certainly been some hiccups, especially in Mankind Divided. And that shitty mobile/pad game.

But gameplay wise I think they've done a pretty good job.

LoK's story is a clusterfuck. I love it but BO2 threw a goddamn wrench in it that Amy had to fix sacrificing what could have been a decent send off to the series.

At least it ended in hope.

>two games and they still haven't figured out how to do melee
>pretty good job
Nah.

Well Raziel as an entity that eat souls was a mistake. An ebb in the flow of fate that shifted the reality in a direction suitable to it's redeemers.
He was always to be Kain's right arm, just not in the shape we liked him in.
Michael Bell and Simon Templeman are epic
Rip Tony Jay :(

In the distance i see a giant Ronald McDonald

>It's bad because it's missing THAT ONE FEATURE I WANT
Fuck you.

Are you implying that melee in Deus Ex was good?

You have a point though, the melee, or takedowns, could be improved.

No, it's more than that. It's just the most obvious example of how they completely tossed the original's design philosophy out the window.

But I would rather not have this argument in a LoK thread.

RONALD IS DEIFIED
THE FATASSES TELL TALES OF HIM
FEW KNOW THE TRUTH

AND WHAT IS THIS TRUTH?

He was skinny once....

>space time continuum halts while Jensen do a 10 minute combo move to take out one guy
I hated that. Reason why I never bothered with the takedowns.

That album is a fucking masterpiece.

THAT THERE IS NO MORE YOGURT ELDER GOD.

The DX design philosophy was to center the story around the player's decisions.
Eidos has done a pretty good job adapting that for new audiences.
This. You can play the game without it if you don't like it.