Horror games with combat vs horror games without combat; which are better and why?

Horror games with combat vs horror games without combat; which are better and why?

Both have their strengths. Doesn't gotta be a greater lesser thing.

Combat > No Combat

This is the definitive truth.

If we're talking about scary-ness then I can't be scared if I'm given an automatic crossbow that shoots lightning somehow.

it all depends on the game and how the overall atmosphere is and how immersed you are.

it needs to be balanced properly, it can't be killing mindless hordes and it can't be walking simulator. I'd go on the end with less combat cause supplies should be scarce and enemies an actual threat.

I'm not sure which i think is better, but a horror game needs to have interactivity beyond walking, and running away from shit.Thats for sure.Not talking about dark descent BTW.

Horror games that went to the extreme end of incorporating combat and action (RE6, Dead Space 2 and 3) are boring, and games that do nothing but make you run down scary hallways and away from scary enemies (Outlast, any trendy twitch-friendly horror thing) are also boring.

Alien: Isolation has out done all Amnesia-like games, and it was boring too. There's no more need for just plain haunted house sims (no touch policy)

It depends on the game. Penumbra had combat, and was less scary because every threat in the game could easily be killed by walking backwards in a circle and swinging a pickaxe.

I don't like horror games where you can't defend yourself for no reason, like Outlast. When an enemy kills you because you just got caught isn't very fun.

In Alien Isolation, you actually have a wide variety of weapons and tools to defend yourself, but enemies are still very dangerous. They're actually strong, which makes them scarier to me.

All the horror games I've played without combat had a tendency to be more scary. But all the horror games I've played with combat tended to be more fun overall.

I prefer with combat. If you want to have a setup where the enemies are invincible, you should do like Siren or Haunting Ground and make it possible to beat the enemies, but have them climb back on their feet in a minute. All the new wave Slender copy shit where all you do is run or stealth just smacks of lazy to me.

>horror games with combat
>fair amount of difference in gameplay between games, horror is often in the form of atmosphere, but if action is overdone it isn't even really a horror game
as opposed to
>horror games without combat
>hide and seek simulator almost every time, usually there are puzzles that are menial at best but are annoying as shit because you have to keep hiding from the monsters that instantly kill you and happen to wander through the room at a snail's pace
Honestly horror games don't seem all that appealing, usually they're streamer bait and for the kids that think jumpscares are actually frightening. Personally I prefer games that have a 'horror atmosphere' but don't try to shove horror down your throat, like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. or Dead Space, hopefully the upcoming Scorn game has good gunplay on top of atmosphere.

It's not much of a horror when you can just bash the horror's head in.

Though I'm not really a fan of pure walking simulators either.

Horror games with combat ends up being boring because devs are stupid.

Horror games without combat ends up being boring because devs are stupid.

You cannot win with the horror genre, the only fucking thing that makes horror games good is when you are a dumb kid and aren't ruined quite yet by age and experience.

See that's why Alien Isolation does it right. You CAN bash enemy's heads in, but it's not easy and they'll almost certainly bash yours in first.

The problem with combat horror is that YOU eventually become the Scariest thing in the game (resident evil 5/6, SH homecoming, Bioshock, Deadspace)

You sound like a fun person.

Okay.

/thread

The survival horror concept in itself is still gold. The problem is that even on high difficulties the resources are still plenty. You're never really forced to flee from your enemies so the fight or flight aspect is pretty weak. That's purely a balancing problem though.

I don't necessarily think a horror game needs combat, but it does need more options than just hide and seek to shake up the gameplay. You should be able to either distract enemies, or momentarily incapacitate or slow them down in some way. I think amnesia accomplished this. Hiding was the main mechanic but you also could distract enemies, block paths with objects, and you constantly needed to balance the need for light to lower your sanity meter, and the need for darkness to hide from enemies. I think outlast on the other hand did this very poorly.

I think silent hill 3 on hard achieved this.

FEAR did a pretty good job of making you feel powerful as fuck but still having "ohshitshitshit" moments

Problem was those ohshitshitshit moments had no teeth. I think there's only three or four times across the entire series where alma can hurt you.

First post best post.

combat > no combat

A big part of fear is the fight or flight response. No combat horror games basically only force flight on the player.

That all depends on the game.
That said if there is combat, I prefer being a protagonist with little to no combat experience over a trained soldier.

This. Though I prefer horror games with combat. The best horror games are the ones that balance the combat out so that at some point, you're going to have to fight something eventually.

Yeah, FEAR did nothing for me. It was awesome shooting paused by what was basically a spook movie with little connection to the rest of the gameplay. Felt disconnected.

Sure, but plenty do the opposite and force fight.

I'd say a mixture of both elements makes for a good game. Evil Within was great about this.

>walking simulators vs. non walking simulators

what do you think?

If there are enemies that can kill you, then it's not a walking simulator.

fbpb, although granted it's a lot more oppressive when you can't defend yourself.

>but plenty do the opposite and force fight.

For boss fights I suppose yeah they force you to fight. Besides that though not really. In some games it's about knowing when to fight and when it's best to run.

Part of the thrill of horror games is the fight-or-flight response.
Pretty hard to experience fight-or-flight when there's no fight.

I prefer 'horror' games with combat

I don't think being able to kill everything makes a game less scary, the probably is that killing things starts to feel mundane

I'd say dead space does a pretty good job of setting up scares even though a lot of them are jump scares but they always create a lot of tense moments where you feel like something is about to happen but you have no clue what to expect.

The major thing that makes dead space less scary to me is the lack of enemy variety. You see the same enemies basically all game long so you become familiar with them, I feel like a really good horror game wouldn't let you get familiar with your enemies.

They need to make a horror game where there is some dreadful mindfucking consequence of your wanton violence.

REmake kind of did this.

You mean something along the lines of Spec Ops: The Line, where it turned out you were the demons?

In a way I think removing the option of combat makes the game less stressful for the player. With combat being at least a minor portion of the game it's likely that scenarios will come up where the player is either forced to face the monsters or be forced to make a difficult decision of whether to run or fight. In a game that's just hide and seak, you know exactly what you need to when the monsters show up, and if you're good enough at stealth games you can probably avoid them completely.

I think the best system is to make the combat system in such a way that it's only viable as a last resort, and/or only incapacitates enemies.

the player should fear death or failure, but it shouldnt happen over and over in a difficult segment because then it stops being scary

This. I'm noticing that horror games in general are starting to go this route.

Maybe, or maybe the monsters are more innocent than you believe. Or killing them unleashes a whole load of fuck for others.
>we did it Patrick, we saved the town

horror games with combat. Without combat you instantly know the solution to all encounters is to run away and theres never any hesitation if you should fight or flight. Because you know you have to run away from everything, you already have a plan set in stone for each encounter. Not to mention games without combat have zero resource management.

Is there a horror game with combat and fear/sanity meter? I thing it would be cool if you have to fight but your character is so spooked that he can't really aim or fucks up reloading.

That mostly depends on the skill of the player. Horror games aren't always easy, but they're not really designed to be played again and again either.

>the monsters are more innocent than you believe

Silent Hill 3 messed with something like that, but only to fuck with Heather. Shame none of the EU devs rolled with that concept, but then again it's also easy to fuck up.

The dark descent did.

It didn't really affect combat, but Eternal Darkness is famous for using insanity in the best way.

dark descent was garbage. all you had to do was hide for 5 to 10 seconds and the monster would despawn

Is there any third person horror game with stealth that is not TLOU?

I think he's saying that it had resource management.

Evil Within comes to mind, but it eventually just sticks with hard combat near the end.

>Because you know you have to run away from everything, you already have a plan set in stone for each encounter

Not necessarily. There are noncombat games that don't strictly rely on the player running away to evade your opponents.

the less combat there is, the more likely it is for the gameplay to be frustrating as fuck

playing the first penumbra before I learned you could just jump on a crate and become godking, destroyer of doggo was spooky as fuck

RE6, haunting ground at least

The one thing I loved about Alien Isolation though because at a certain point you COULD fight the Alien back. Getting the flamethrower was one of the best moments in the game

when you have a nightmare you don't typically fight your oppressors. you just run from them.

since i'm pretty sure all of you are fat neckbeards it's safe to say that any amount of exercise would frighten you.

Horror games with combat but with resource limitations. Games that make you think and solve puzzles while also keeping you on edge.

Not saying the original Resident Evil games were scary, but they did it right, though the puzzles weren't ever difficult. 4 threw it all away to become a mindless zombie shooter.

Games are spookier if you have to run away from shit

I don't care, I'll play any game with a dark atmosphere.

Depends on your personal taste. If you like supernatural, deity-like horror then there's no reason to have weapons involved. If you like zombie or slasher games then go ahead and get that axe.