Miss! Miss! Miss! Miss! Miss! Miss! Miss! Miss! Miss! Miss! Miss! Miss!

>Miss! Miss! Miss! Miss! Miss! Miss! Miss! Miss! Miss! Miss! Miss! Miss!

Who's the worst offender?

Morrowind
In the first two you're commanding people to do shit. In Morrowind you're doing shit YOURSELF, first-person, you SEE the sword going through the flesh.

>til OP is a colossal faggot

morrowind is the worst offender
TIL you need to return to reddit

You can have turn based combat with misses, you can have real-time targeting with misses like in mmo's, but god fucking damn you cannot do real-time, manual-aiming with misses. Fuck morrowind and any retards that defend it, the most important aspect of a game is being able to fucking play it

All those games are great though

>underageb8 never played Ultima Underworld, Daggerfall, or M&M6

Learn to flank.

>HURRRRRRR UNDERAGEB8 BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE THE SAME GAMES AS I DO

They are, no argue about that

>others did it, that means it's right
you're a fucking idiot

roll to hit is a tabletop RPG mechanic used as a means to see if an ATTEMPTED attack hits or misses, it takes place before the attack - in a game with direct input where you SEE THAT YOU'RE HITTING THE TARGET, rolling to HIT is retarded, it's a bad translation from ttrpgs to videogames, and justifying it makes you a retard

Morrowind. No question.

Great game, but obnoxious as fuck in that regard.

morrowind

Both are terrible, i'm glad Skyrim fixed the combat issues in the Elder Scroll series, and now we can purchase and play the Elder Scrolls Skyrim:Special Edition which is awesome.

The big difference between those is that you don't have (and aren't intended to have) free mouselook, so aiming your attack is entirely a factor of aiming in the general direction of your enemy. The game still abstracts the basic idea of how your sword is moving in relation to your enemy, unlike in Morrowind where your viewmodel is significantly more connected to the world.

Too bad it lacks substance. If only Skyrim had the depth Morrowind had, Bethesda could very well have made the best game of all time.

>dumbass can't tell the difference between soft lock-on and pixel-percise targeting

>purchase and play the Elder Scrolls Skyrim:Special Edition
>not getting it for free

Retards whio can't into tactics and proper builds

X-COM.

Haven't played Dragonfall so I can't comment on that, but in Morrowind you hit like 30 times a second so missing isn't a big deal, and it stops being a problem after an a few hours.

But in X-COM missing can pretty much doom your entire strategy, and in a lot of cases you just can't avoid it.

I really wish devs found a better way to do shooting in turn based games rather than just a RNG percentage that always ends up feeling a bit cheap.

You are just as sad as him user.

>But in X-COM missing can pretty much doom your entire strategy, and in a lot of cases you just can't avoid it.

You want xcom without RNG? Fucking normals ruining all games.

In the case of hit chances? Yes. It's just not fun, and unlike Morrowind remains a problem for most of the game and not just the early stages.

I clearly see my sword slicing through the enemy's jugular in the sequels and yet it does meager damage.

>But in X-COM missing can pretty much doom your entire strategy, and in a lot of cases you just can't avoid it.
only take medics, shotguns and snipers
piss easy

Xcom. Morrowind you could easily make a character with the kind of weapon you wanted in mind right at the start and hit 90% of the time.

But in Xcom, it's just a chance to hit and there is very little you can do about it at the start. Sure they get better and trying to get better positioning really helps, but there will always be a miss somewhere in that and it is far more devastating to see MISS come up in that game.

Miss chances and semi-random damage are cornerstones of turn-based strategy, though. You're SUPPOSED to be planning for cases where your guy misses, because otherwise the game just becomes rocket tag.

RNG is only a factor in XCOM: EU/2 in first few missions when you have ~60% aim rookies and no options in regards to abilities and equipment.

Beyond that, if you're not alpha striking 99% of the time, especially in 2, you're fundamentally not playing correctly.

>tfw game has both Accuracy and Dodge mechanics

Really makes you think

The fact that you need to makes it shit.

I know, but that doesn't mean you can't try to innovate. Instead of just going "all the games does it so we are gonna do it too despite it being one of the weaker aspects of the genre"

>RNG is only a factor in XCOM: EU/2 in first few missions when you have ~60% aim rookies and no options in regards to abilities and equipment.
I missed constantly even with 90+% hit chance. And it always feels a bit unfair. Even if it isn't.
>Beyond that, if you're not alpha striking 99% of the time, especially in 2, you're fundamentally not playing correctly.
See, that just shows how shitty the system is.

Xcom by far.

It's so fucking comical to run right next to an enemy and see a 40% hit chance. It's like Xcom only recruits blind people and ones with advanced Parkinsons disease.

>He can't into risk management

XCOM is just not for you then, bro. It's like going into any FPS thread and saying 'Dude fuck guns in this game. Remove them so it can just be tanks and airplanes.'

Unfortunately Power Creep means that late game does become that. Either with means of guaranteed damage or disabling targets or blowing cover to ensure shots hit.

Start of the game is the worst, it's hectic, so it can be fun, but bad rolls can mean squad wipe even at 90% shots.

Then Midgame hits and you can do things to improve your situation and any bad that happens is usually your own fault.

Late game is a steam roll with enemies that have tons of health to counter your absurd damage, but really aren't a threat to you at all as long as you aren't a retard.

That kind of difficulty curve is retarded, really it should remain about the same difficulty all throughout.

I'd rather do meager damage than no damage any day, the first one isn't realistic, but the second one is downright clowny

>I know, but that doesn't mean you can't try to innovate. Instead of just going "all the games does it so we are gonna do it too despite it being one of the weaker aspects of the genre"

No, the RNG hit chance and damage output is literally the meat and potatoes of the games.

Like this guy said if you're not into it, XCOM games just aren't for you.

I can. I'm not saying I didn't enjoy the game. For the most part I'm fine with it. I just think it's a chink in the armor and I wish devs would experiment with it a bit more too see if there are more enjoyable ways to do it.

>No, the RNG hit chance and damage output is literally the meat and potatoes of the games.
I guess we played the games very differently then.

Maybe try flanking the enemy while you're running up to them? Cover can lead to situations like pic related but hitting an exposed or flanked enemy is pretty likely, even for a rookie.

>meager damage to the jugular
just as good as a glancing blow off of armor

And I'd rather do no damage at the early stages rather than meager damage at all stages of the game.

Morrowind's actual problem is the combat becomes way too fucking easy once you get a competent weapon with a decent enchantment.

This is from when I did commander ironman. Missing nearly 1 in 5 shots still results in victory.

>pretty likely for a rookie

Not really, start of game, concealed rookies have an 76% chance to hit on Legendary on an exposed target.

76% chance is alright, you will hit 3/4 of the time, but I've had the whole squad of 4 miss and that chance sinks to 40% when the pod finds cover and this is the first mission of the game.

Even a point blank flanking shot is only 85% It takes a few promotions and even then you could have some of your guys that rolled poor on aim and might have 90% on a flank against later enemies.

That's not even getting into things that have innate defense. Like the fucking Gatekeepers. 40% chance to hit taken off because of that and they can't be flanked.

The system has it's problems, people don't like to admit it, mostly because if it got changed, most of the appeal of Shit going wrong would suddenly disappear. Part of the fun of the game is it's Meta aspect and getting out of bad situations.

So you fix it and the game becomes 'fair', but then it loses what made it fun in the first place

Overwatch ambush as intended is a fucking trap for your soldiers. I can't believe they let this huge oversight by after advertising the concealment system on every corner.

That's a pretty good shot percentage. Good thing even in the Early game for X2, you have things to help get good shots or to mitigate a poor turn.

I wish there was a better break down of it though. What was your shot percentage like in the first few months? When did you suddenly start hitting almost every shot in a stage? What classes hit the most?

Certainly not Morrowind. Anyone who's played it knows that after like three or five levels you basically never miss an attack. Hell, you can do that from level one if you pick the right stats. It's annoying during the first few hours, but later on you never have issues.

Indeed. I played into the meme when I first started. I was told that in order to min max, I should do the opposite of what my character and class was good at. So I picked Bosmer and picked up a sword and started trying to swing it in a spam click fest against Mudcrabs and died.

After putting the game down for a while, I picked it back up and decided to play as a Nord with Shortsword as his skill. The enchanted sword you get right outside of the first town from the man that falls out of the sky proved more then capable enough when I hit every single strike and found out you could 'charge' the hit by holding the button and that stamina was very important to being able to hit.

Suddenly the RNG of hitting disappeared and was replaced by stamina management.

I can never relate to this "you cant hit shit in Morrowind" meme because I've always leveled agility and kept my weapons at top maintenance quality.

Darkest Dungeon. Made me quit the game.