Why is Square Enix moving away from turn based for Final Fantasy when shit like Pokemon does it and is super successful?

Why is Square Enix moving away from turn based for Final Fantasy when shit like Pokemon does it and is super successful?

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>Comparing Final Fantasy to Pokemon

They're two completely different games you fucking autistic clown.

The point he's making is that the style of gameplay can still be successful so why did a series which previously used it almost exclusively essentially abandon it altogether in favor of action RPG gameplay?

You shitter.

Because turn-based is boring.

>inb4 underaged
I'm 23 and never got much into final fantasy because of this. I've only played 6,7 and 10 and mostly because I liked the characters.

Pokemon isn't successful because it's turn based.

>Implying 23 isn't underaged

You were born in the 90's. You didn't have worthwhile thoughts until the 2000's. You're only just now beginning to finally kind of become an adult.

It's successful AND turn based is the point. Final Fantasy was always turn based or ATB all the way through FFX. The question being asked is, why did it abandon the gameplay style that had been so successful for it all those years?

FFX was the most successful title in the series and was both financially and commercially lauded. It was an entirely turn-based game.

Then they went into semi-action with X-2, MMO territory with FFXI, the Gambit system with FFXII, etc.

Turn based served them extremely well and they just dropped the hell out of it after FFX. Why? It's weird that they seemed to avoid it like it was dangerous to return to familiar territory for some reason.

So you know about the Dragon Quest games, right? So since we already have that series of games that's more of a straight up RPG, we feel like it would be a shame if we weren't doing something that was more different and that was giving something to the customers. And I think that what people like about those original Final Fantasy games were, as you say, the RPG elements, but there was also the colorful characters, the melodrama, and the graphics. So in the new games we're focusing more on the melodrama aspects and the graphics.

So it would be the same if it always had Pokken Tournament gameplay?

FFX was made by Square. Square no longer exists user, the new company is full on retard.

Because the only turn based Final Fantasy games have been I, II, III and X.

Most people lump ATB and Turn Based together, unless I misunderstand your meaning.

Ok then if ATB is turn based then XII and XIII are turn based both made by Square Enix.

Because we deserve fun gameplay

Personally, I don't consider the Gambit system and the weird queuing up of attacks you did in XIII to really fall into the same category. I could at least see an argument for XIII but XII really doesn't play like a turn based/ATB system at all to me.

whos that semen demon?

You're saying it as if it was a mistake. FF7 remake and FF15 are the first final fantasy that will have no turn base elements. They're not out yet, but kingdom hearts is successful as fuck, so it will most likely work.

It literally uses ATB, you have an ATB gauge and commands are executed based on full the gauge is. This is an objective fact

FF had such a massive drop in quality when it came to the battle system they have no choice.
Even if they did bring back the old gameplay they could never beat Pokemon.

Pokemon is popular because it had a massive marketing campaign with cross media back in the 90s. It has nothing to do with being turn based. It could have played like Zelda and it would be still as popular.

Look at why Pokemon Go was successful, not because of turn based that's for sure. They have so much marketing for pokemon is why it got big.

Same with 7. The first JRPG to ever get such massive marketing in the west yet not a single Advertisement had any gameplay in it, just the FMVs. Not to mention being the first mainline FF released in Europe, Australia and PAL regions. Turn based has never been why pokemon or FF got popular, anyone who thinks it is is delusional. They could have had any gameplay system they wanted and it would have still sold the same.

Because you are comparing Mobile game versus game on multiple home platfroms.

On mobile, I wouldn't play aRPG because I usually play it in places that may require my immediate attention: waiting room, queue, bus ,etc. i want to be able to take a break immediately .

Home console is a different thing. You are supposed to play when you HAVE time.

I'm not arguing really, just a personal thing. I like the flow of the classic ATB games where it fills, you perform an action, it fills, you perform an action, etc. I'm not sure how far you can stretch that before it becomes something different. Just having a gauge that dictates when you can and can't perform an action doesn't seem sufficient but I'm not a game designer so what do I know?

I also prefer not moving during combat. Basically, part of what I enjoy about the older games is how they're more or less menu based. It made for relaxing but still mentally engaging battles.

What? You realize the older Final Fantasies were on home consoles before they were ported to Mobile, right?

Final Fantasy games have toyed with different systems for a while now, doesn't mean they won't go back.

"Hashimoto points out that FF change their game systems all the time. There is an "action-packed" game system in this game, but that doesn't mean there will be one in the next one."
and
"A questioner asks if it's hard to turn-based battle systems now. No, Hashimoto said. Questioner press: can you still make a multi-million dollar production that is based on the classic turn-based model? (The implication is that that's a harder mass-market sell.) Hashimoto: "I believe there is a future for both action RPG and command-based RPG," he says."

Straight from Hashimoto, brand director of Final Fantasy. This is in 2013, though.

Older FF were mostly limited by platform. tactical approach was the easiest and most consistent back then,

Now, as the platforms evolved, the approach to gameplay for RPGs as well. You can see it not just in FF: Grandia, Los Oddysey, etc.

normalfags all have a nearly nonexistent attention span so they need some sort of stimulus every half second. unfortunately, turn based combat requires a few more seconds

Just because we've developed more complex board games with rules, multi-level board, props and trivia doesn't make chess any less enjoyable.

The ability to make games in new and exciting ways doesn't in any way invalidate what made the previous iterations fun. By that logic, all turn based strategy, civilization, etc. games should be thrown out and only the games with the most complex, physics based systems should be allowed as that's what the platform is capable of.

The whole point of Final Fantasy, is to fucking change things up between each and every mainline title. Change for the sake of change.

>mentally engaging battles
Is this bait? I-IX is just spamming your most powerful attacks and healing when necessary.

But that doesn't mean they should completely change the battle system of FFVII in its remake.
>people who like ATB bought FFVII
>now it's full action

Imagine remake of Resident Evil 3 that plays like RE5

But the JRPG genre is on its dying breath dude.

i'm almost 30 and can say for sure turn based should have died in the 90s. also final fantasy is super gay. the ONLY people who i ever knew that played it were rejects

Until you clog up the spell queue because only 3 spell animations can play at the same time or something.

They're trying way too hard to appeal to people who don't even like JRPGs in the first place.

There was more to them than that. FF12 plays itself, it's nearly impossible to die in that game for anyone. The other games had their difficulty spikes.

The game also takes positioning into consideration and animation locks, it's really nothing like old FFs.

Pokken Tournament to me seems like what a Pokemon game would be with one-on-one combat without the Street Fighter style, but isn't it severely unpopular in Japan? Why change a battle system that's familiar and easy to understand?

Funny thing, Nier Automata could achieve that.

yeah but you're in ur 30s and still on Sup Forums so who cares what u think lol

A lot of people got burned out of it with so many great games using it on the PS1. Then many not as good games using it on PS2.

I actually liked it in FF7, because it was quick and if you used your brain you never had to grind at all in the game. In fact it was really just as series of mini-games with bosses mixed in.

little faggot

Because they've been run by retards since the merger.

>Pokemon does it and is super successful?

Pokemon is the ONLY mainstream JRPG with a decent turn based combat system.

Jojo reference?

Posts like this always imply that action based gameplay is somehow less "cerebral" or is somehow less complex than turn based gameplay.
Turn based gameplay can be very good if done right, Pokemon has literally been a avariation of rock/paper/scissors for years, there's very little thought to put into the gameplay beside some few aspects than can be modified, but it doesn't change the core gameplay.
I think the quintessential gameplay that really nails the strategic yet action based system is Vagrant Story, the gameplay and mechanics are very complex, but the system itself isn't turn based and has a very well fleshed out combo system that keeps it fast and strategic.

More like it's more alive now than ever

Fuck off

The whole point of ATB, was to work with limitations and get the system closer and closer to real time action. The creator of it said as much.

Because Casuals

>multi-level board, props and trivia doesn't make chess any less enjoyable

That's because Chess is an actually complex tactical game.

>The ability to make games in new and exciting ways doesn't in any way invalidate what made the previous iterations fun.

The previous iterations were only 'fun' because of Skinner box bullshit and fancy animations. That is absolutely more gimmicky than physics shit. Hell, I'd fucking love a FF game where the battle were based around manipulating physics shit, that would be awesome.

this. Final Fantasy is popular because it has edgy anime characters, and kids like that. Plus, it has the other superficial things like music and flashiness to attract people

Tetsuyo "the Darkness" Nomura is in charge. Whenever he tries to makes something that isn't kingdom hearts or a beatem-up it turns out badly

Because turn-based FF combat is shit, I've played VII and X thus far and they're both mind-numbing boring to play.

SE realized they won't make an actual engaging experience with this, so they changed it.

turn based is either not quite perfectly strategic, nor is it perfectly action based. It's either an awkward middle child or baby bear depending on how you look at it. Squenix sees it as the former.

The guy who made all the legendary final fantasies split from the company after 10 and it's been downhill ever since x-2

Turn-based can be done right. However, FF and most other JRPGs are literally the same game over and over again. Attack, use fire on ice-based monsters, potion when hp is low, ether when mp is low. Wow, so much thought!

world of final fantasy is turn based like Pokemon but's gonna bomb because of shit reviews

If only he hadn't gone and made that shitty movie.

>gonna bomb

already a success in japan with 100k sales

I don't know how well it will do in the united states, obviously not as good as Japan

playstationlifestyle.net/2016/11/02/japanese-sales-chart-sword-art-online-outsells-world-final-fantasy/

No it couldn't. That game is a weird fetish game in the eyes of the masses.

With quality games like.....? Most series are dead and the only decent games coming out are sequels.

>already a success
>100k

>muscular man
JJBA reference?

>By that logic, all turn based strategy, civilization, etc. games should be thrown out and only the games with the most complex, physics based systems should be allowed as that's what the platform is capable of.
>By that logic
But you completely failed to see the logic that's the point.

It is not that turn-based gameplay is outdated, quite the contrary, XCOM2 is the best example of that.
RPG finally move past the boundaries that would usually tie them to Tb or top-down action-slash shit to the point where they can implement any type of gameplay. So they do.

At least the classic atb like parasite eve paused while choosing your action and targeting.

They think everyone in the western market is a complete normie who complains about turn based combat not being realistic enough, so they shoot themselves in the foot to try and appeal to people who don't like their games anyway.

Pokemon sells because it's Pokemon, not because it's turn-based.

Also, Gamefreak is full with perhaps the most incompetent developers in the whole industry so why should they risk change when they can barely manage what they are doing now?

This number is Japan only and the game has been out a week. To put that in perspective, Bloodborne has sold about double that in Japan during its entire life span of one and a half years.

>Why is Square Enix moving away from turn based for Final Fantasy when shit like Pokemon does it and is super effective?

ftfy m8
man, you really blew it on that one

SMT is still using it and successful
Persona is still using it and successful

Yeah SE is dumb

Okay so Bloodborne wasn't a success in Japan and this game won't come close to it.

Is this a new stupid meme?

Don't forget the one who gave them great music

I just want them back bros

Both of those are niche as fuck not AAA games you idiot.

Dude, bot hSMT and Persona are normie as fuck. SMT is LITARLLY the Dark Souls of JRPG'sm and Persona is like, the closest thing there is to playable anime. Have you been living under a rock?

turn based is so much better for final fantasy, they fucked up


finding and choosing different party members, the strategy and thinking about your next move, the camera panning across th monster and characters while you think with the amazing music playing over the top so you can really drink the amosphere and everything in, the summons

nnngggggh

now you just button spamming and its supposed to be more exciting because it's 'faster' but it is actually more boring

You are retarded. Both are extremely niche not mainstream even remotely. Even fucking Ace Attorney is more well known than those and that is still fucking Niche.

>Both are extremely niche
Mate, Persona has become mainstream becuase "it's so much feels!" "such human characters!". SMT IV is the most popular in the series despite being hot garbage, but normies ate it up because the gaming press called named it the Dark Souls of JRPG's, and you can't get more mainstream than Dark Souls.

Thats objectively wrong. Nothing is more boring than turn based shit where all you do is pick words from a menu then watch canned animations play out. In action games you actually have full direct control of the character and is far more immersive and capable for skillful play with actual strategies being implemented in real time with a higher level of cognitive function that is possible compared to turn based.

This is the most autistic post of the day

Persona is not mainstream you fucking idiot, it's literally smaller than Ace Attorney. SMT and Persona are both niche as fuck. And Dark Souls is a JRPG you dumb cunt.

>skillful play

No.

Action game like dark soul is skill
in Jrpg you're still bound to level and shit. It doesn't matter if you can just mash button and win anyway

Post? More like this entire thread. Nothing but whining and bitching.

You just button mash in turn based to win, no thought required.

>And Dark Souls is a JRPG you dumb cunt.
At least put some effort in your shit response.

you're wrong.


the action fights in squeenix games are boring as shit

do you find michael bay movies exiting too, after thirty minutes of explosions they become boring. thats your shitty button mashing fight gameplay.

don't pretend it's all cerebral, you're running around an enemy hitting it with sticks, boring.

underage

You know I think they've seen how successful and innovative they can be without the Disney restrictions in games like Kingdom Hearts. Think about it, Final Fantasy 15's combat looks cool as fuck. It's basically KH combat system refined, and it looks great, looks engaging and hits way more of the gaming market than just "JRPG weebs."

>do you find michael bay movies exiting too
What does that have to do with anything? Be less dumb.

>Persona has become mainstream
It's played by weebs who congregate on the internet to have serious discussions about their panty quests, that doesn't mean it's mainstream.

plus with turn based you have control of the ENTIRE team, not one guy at a time while the rest are controlled by shitty AI

>turned it into action based rpg
>can't even make it good like tales

Lol

i don't see how that doesn't apply to turn-based games with all the long ass flashy animations

you really think being restricted to a fucking menu to do everything is more fun than having actual movement?

you can't appreciate something more cerebral like turn based you want button mashing action shit

How fucking dense are you?

>turn based combat not being realistic enough

Holy shit I love the strawmen you turn based defeners pull.

Kingdom Hearts combat is far more 'cerebral' than any mainline FF. You won't even be able to deny this because you're too stupid to be able to plan out strategies in real time.

>good like tales

>you can't appreciate something more cerebral like turn based
Turn based isn't cerebral, it literally gives you all the time in the world to think your next move. turn-based RPGs are for slow children with no reaction time. That's also why they never have any manner of PvP.

Pokemon doesn't used turn based systems outside of handheld games.

Final Fantasy uses turn based systems for mobile games.

There's no reason to use turn based systems if your game isn't a grid based tactical RPG. If you actually support turned based RPGs it's because you want to watch movies instead of playing games.

Man cloud is looking rocket summer as fuck here

Well you have no argument

I didn't say tales are superb game but you can't deny the battle and overall gameplay are way better than what we have seen and "tried" in FFXV demo

Plus you can't switch party member in this so tales already won