Duke Nukem 3D

Would you say it's on the top 10 FPS ever made?

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Dude shut the fuck up Duke3d runs at least at 30 FPS, not at 10 or whatever you think it is.

It's pretty darn good, definitely top 10 material.

kek

No, gets extremely boring after the first episode because the gimmicky shitty weapons like the freezer or shrinker unnecessarily slow the game down and make killing shit tedious, and levels, environments and enemies get more and more bland.

My top 10 FPS in no specific order:
Tribes 2
UT99
Half-Life mods (TS, NS, Firearms,etc)
Duke3D
Blood
Doom 2
Delta Force
UT2K4
Rainbow Six Raven Shield
SWAT 3

You're retarded

>Would you say it's on the top 10 FPS ever made?

Yeah, I mean, I ain't disagreeing with these motherfuckers

>"A perfect 10!"
>Computer Mayo!

>"Five stars"
>PC Epleeebelnenenel

It's better than Doom in pretty much every aspect. Only soundtrack is arguable, not that Duke 3D's OST wasn't memorable as fuck

>gimmicky shitty weapons like the freezer or shrinker unnecessarily slow the game down and make killing shit tedious

You don't have to use any of these. You will always have the Pistol, Chaingun, Shotgun and the RL. The Xenomorph ripoffs (just about the stronger non-boss enemy you'll find in the game, discounting the bosses themselves as level enemies a la Mini-Battlelord) die just as easily from the Shotgun as any "superweapon". Just git gud

here are mine

Blood
Red Orchestra
CoD 5
Doom 64
Goldeneye
BF Bad Company
BF 1942 / Vietnam
The Darkness
Halo 3 ODST
Counter Strike / Half Life

> Metroid Prime
even if it is not a true "FPS"

aren't minibattlelords shrinkable?

I debated putting BF but honestly I had way more fun with Delta Force as a whole. All the custom maps there used to be for the series gone forever...

Yes, but it's basically an exploit. You need to turn vertical aim assist off (I'm not even sure this was possible in the original executable), fire a Shrink Ray blast and have the splash hit it. It will then shrink the Mini Battlelord

I think there's no way to do it "legit"

Reminder that the "doom/quake clone" was the peek of this genre and neither Half Life 2 or Halo needed to "improve" what was already perfect.

It's got a really weak enemy roster compared to Doom, or even Quake.

the 1942 intro gives me feels all the time

youtube.com/watch?v=vggrV0MJxOY

No the hitscan enemies are annoying and not a fun challenge to overcome. You move incredibly fast yet often times the best solution is to stand in one spot behind a wall because no matter how fast you're going, you just get mowed down by constant damage. Its good though and has a lot of other things going for it.

lies by a bad player once again

You CAN avoid hitscan by moving fast. The enemies' "aim" doesn't keep up with your sprinting speed. There's a webm of an user circlestrafing a Liztroop and avoiding its Chaingun

Oh wow that's some synchronicity. The webm I talk about is posted seconds before I speak of it

Moving around in a big circle isn't much more interesting than corner strafing.

no but it is the best way to show how hitscan attacks can be dodged

You can avoid them by moving roughly orthogonally to their firing vector, it's even preferable to circlestrafing. As long as you don't run towards/backwards in relation to the origin of their fire, you can avoid their salvo. You can use this knowledge, and the extra speed moving diagonally confers, to dance around enemies and engage even hitscanners aggressively

Git gud, you got literally nothing

>better than Doom in pretty much every aspect
Not really. Enemies are much more interesting in Doom 2, and the guns that are different are gimmicky and forgettable.

Judging by the games at release then I agree, but judging by gameplay alone Doom has more depth.

What did Randy do to the game that made him assume he's important?

>judging by gameplay alone Doom has more depth
No way in hell. Doom is easy for me to play with tractor controls because of how simplistic it is while in Duke it's suffering because of the verticality, enemies that take advantage of it frequently, the need to jump and crouch which are both missing from Doom, and more intricate level design in general. Source ports seem to spoil people with Doom and make the advantages Duke had over it back in the day less apparent. While enemy design is a subjective thing and I do agree Doom and Doom 2's enemies are more memorable, enemies in Duke definitely have more behaviors and are more advanced.

You are trying to make a simple act sound a lot more complicated than it really is. It's strafing.

You aren't a tactical genius for figuring this shit out.

The problem isn't that the hitscanners are unfair, it's that they're fucking boring and make too many encounters feel the same.

Monsters in Doom feel like they were designed with specific jobs in mind and monsters in Duke are just kind of there and don't really play off of each other.

Stop blue balling us and release the fucking Blood source code already you Lex Luthor looking fucker

>you will never be a fit, sexy desirable dev nerd
>you'll forever be a strongest dev nerd

The mini battle lord hit boxes are pretty weird. if you fire the shrink blast at their feet you'll shrink him the majority of the time. same with the freeze gun

> yes it feels like an exploit

Time Splitters is the best fps made by man

Not even joking. Nothing else offers before or since offer what this game did out of the box.

Again, judging the games at release Duke is much better, but when you reach its skill ceiling it's not as interesting as in Doom.

The intensity of some Doom wads can't be reached with Duke, this is because the simplistic behaviour of Doom enemies coupled with their diversity makes hard encounters more similar to puzzles than traditional FPS fights, and much more engaging.

Protector drones suck. Why are they brown when their original pallet is blue? Why do they always manage to step on you just as you are about to grow back? Why do they make the most fucking annoying hitsound in the game next to the octobrain? Why didn't they retrofit them into the second episode in the atomic edition?

2 was better than 3 imo. Way better mulitplayer maps and challenges that weren't piss easy. Multiplayer storymode was broken as shit too.

i believe its like 3rd. doom and wolfenstein preceding it

Wolfenstein 3D? Lol no

...

Instead of Wolf 3D, we should put Quake

>strongest
Meant strongfat

>The Darkness

Mah nigga!

Moving the goalposts is even more boring fampai

Hard to say. Compared to current titles, it is pretty medicore with some crass humor.

But when it came out? This was before shooters were ever in a modern place. A place that felt somewhat real. It wasn't some castle or a space station. Its movie theaters and arcades first, THEN it turns into space stations and such.

It had mirrors that worked. Objects that you could touch and move, like the pool balls. A pretty impressive variety of abilities. Jetpacks. It was, at that point, one of the most interesting worlds I'd ever experienced. And a main character that actually had some sort of personality.

But putting it next to todays games? I can probably name 10 shooters you'd enjoy more today than DN3D. But that doesn't mean it isn't an important milestone in gaming.

>Romero
>designing enemies with roles in mind
>instead of, "dude, yo know what would be fucking awesome?"

There's some crazy revisionism around Doom as if the people were some master designers rather than a group of guys just trying to make a cool game.

Most of the flaws of DN3D are to due with engine limitations and all that, but in terms of game design, it makes COD the reason why people think video games are just toys.

Name them then.

Oh yes, a lot of limitations came from engine limits, graphics limits, etc. The fact that they manages so much from such simple tools is AMAZING.

And I wouldn't put COD on my list of good shooters. But there ARE plenty of good, intelligent shooters that came out after DN3D. I don't mean to disrespect how amazing it was at the time, my only point was that it wasn't so amazing compared to current games, overall.

Shit, pong is a great game made from very simple tools. It doesn't mean it stands up to what is possible now.

Fair enough. I haven't stopped to give this a ton of thought, so I'm just going to list a bunch of various FPS I've played that, if I were to sit down again today, I would enjoy myself more than if I played through DN3D. This, of course, subjective and fuck and I haven't played ever FPS ever. But since you asked, here is a smattering:

>Deus Ex
>Deus Ex HR
>TF2
>HL2
>Overwatch
>System Shock 2
>Tribes 2
>Theif 2
>STALKER COP
>L4D2
>I forget the name, I think one of the Jedi Academy games? Where you use light sabers and guns and such and its fun as shit.

Can you directly compare a lot of these to DN3D? Not really. Half are multiplayer games of an entirely different sort, but they are still FPS games. And I don't claim to be smart enough to compare them fairly. This is just, like, my opinion, man.

it can be both

look at how cacodemons are used in e4m2, it's alot like how they're used in modern doom wads

>Overwatch

Most of those came out over a decade ago or are multiplayer only. Not really helping you out.

I remember reading some quote from one of the developers where he described the point where he realized what they were working on was special.

It was something about beta-testing dukematch where he shrunk another player and watched as the shrunken duke turned on his jetpack and then flew out the window like a fly. Anyone got a source?

Yeah, DN3D is in the top 10.

In no particular order and also because they helped enhance the FPS genre:

Duke Nukem 3D
Unreal
Halo
Half-Life
Medal of Honor
Call of Duty
The Darkness
Condemned
Titanfall

That's all I can really think of; I mean there's more games but they're either sequels of derivatives of the engine of those listed games ie. Shadow Warrior, Blood, etc.

Dukematch is the shit
fuck getting shrunk and humiliated though

>no doom no quake

Romero has outright stated several times how he planned the levels and what rules he followed to create them. His rules are simple but still hold up today, and plenty of modern games would benefit from using them. There was a lot of thought put into the levels, mechanics and monster design.

The were also trying to make a cool game, of course, but that doesn't exclude that they were intelligent people working at their peak, who managed to put themselves at the vanguard of gaming at the time and created a game that still holds up today with an active fanbase.

I specifically noted that myself, genius. As did I point out they are my subjective opinion based on games I have personally played.

The point isn't that its exactly the same sort of game. The point is a subjective ranking of enjoyment if I were to pick it up today and play it.

I enjoyed the fuck out of DN3D when it came out, and played through it 2 or 3 times and even played some multiplayer (trip mines can get fucked). But playing it today, it isn't that special. It isn't a BAD game, but it shows its age pretty strongly.

>le it aged badly maymay

>No Doom or Quake
>Both MoH and COD
>Titanfall

Fucking subhuman

Duke Nukem 3D is probably one of my favourite games of all time, I'd put Blood and Doom up there too, there's just something about these games that I really fall in love with whenever I play them that I find really hard to describe but present in all 3 yet lacking from more recent FPS titles, I think it's just the element of control you have in the game, you are free to explore wherever you want in the game at your own pace, there's no obnoxious story getting in the way or invisible walls blocking you off from going anywhere but on a straight line or time limits forcing you to keep moving, it's just about great level, weapon and enemy design coming together to make a good game.

The games just have such an "atmosphere" to them that I can never get enough of where it's just you on your own without dumb characters radio-ing in or scripted events going on constantly to try and impress you, they really just carry the essence of what it means to be a good game when a lot of developers nowdays seem to be embarrassed to be making games so just dress them up in as many flashy cutscenes as possible and claim they are "advancing the medium".

I know I'm rambling and probably sound like a huge faggot but there's just something about old FPS games that really has been lost, even in their modern remakes.

>Liztroop

I know that's their internal name, and that they're called Enforcers in manuals

But Liztroop is SO cute.

Come on guys, you know I played them; I just couldn't remember them off the top of my head. I'm pretty high on Benadryl too.

Of course Doom and Quake are on the list.

And I'll drop Titanfall.

Yeah. It happens. A lot of games from the 90s are pretty lame to play today. And I grew up playing them, and DOS games before that.

Sorry, but I don't take nostalgia into account when I play a game.

Name a good FPS then.

>it shows its age pretty strongly
I played it for the first time recently and it was more interactive and less linear than lots of the new releases I've played.

I used to be a huge console fag and missed out on a lot of PC classics, but going back and playing classic 90s FPSs has been a blast.

I loved Blood at the time when it was released; I was in 5th grade but now I'm 31 and playing it is brutal and lame.

I do love his 'Caleb Talk' and one-liners.

>A lot of games from the 90s are pretty lame to play today
Duke Nukem 3D not being one of them. Nobody remembers Tekwar, Witchaven, or Skynet but the classics are still classics and you're a faggot.

No matter what I pick you can pick out some difference it has from DN3D to try to invalidate my claim. If I pick something with multiplayer, you will say how DN3D barely had multiplayer therefor it is a bad comparison. If I pick something with RPG elements then you will state DN3D does not have them.

There aren't a lot of games exactly like DN3D, because of a lot of newer elements, like mixing in RPG elements or MP, tend to impact the game.

But that being said, those elements tend to improve a game, making them better. The fact that DN3D does not have them doesn't make it a BAD game by any stretch, but it does mean that playing the other game is more fun, subjectively for me.

So you really want a game? Deus Ex. Came out, what, 4 years after after DN3D? And it is significantly better in pretty much every way. Largely due to improvements in the available technology the game was built on.

Yeah, I wouldn't say DN3D is no fun, def not. It is a strong game. But one of the 10 most fun ones to play today out of every FPS ever made? Probably not.

That is based on my personal opinion on what makes a fun video game. It isn't absolute, but its what I think

Deus Ex as an FPS is absolute garbage. If you want to list a game on the same engine that's actually a good FPS, list Unreal.

>Deus Ex
LOL

Blood is a good game but it's a cut below Duke in the enemy and level design. It's a shame because there are fanmade level packs (which I would usually never bother with) that really show how great the game could have been.

I still love it for how ambitious it was even if it didn't pan out 100%

Both Outlaws and Shadow Warrior "Classic" are superior games compared Dn3D


gog.com/game/outlaws_a_handful_of_missions
gog.com/game/shadow_warrior_complete

>SW
>better
R00fles!

Oh wow no, Shadow Warrior is garbage compared the DN3D the level, weapon and enemy design in it are just awful. I can barely play past the first couple of levels in Shadow Warrior because it really just isn't a good game.

As for Outlaws, Outlaws? Seriously? I actually really like Outlaws, but I'm not so sure if it's above Duke, the gameplay and levels tend to get a bit repetetive but the game more than makes up for it with a great soundtrack.

Outlaws had garbage level design and SW was too unbalanced

I wouldn't put it at top 10 but it would at least make top 20, maybe even 15. It's really good.

Since everybody is making a top 10 mine is (not in any order)
Unreal
UT2K4
Rainbow Six 3
SiN
DOOM
Quake 2
Crysis
Hexen 2
SWAT 4
B-Bioshock

Never got into the Tribes games while they still had a community. Is there still a way to play Tribes?

See, now you go judging Deus Ex on only certain criteria that you decided are the important ones. Ignore all other elements, but the guns in DN3D are more fun therefor it is a better game?

You can fuck right off with that kind of thinking. You can say any game is better than any other game with that logic.

>ET is a better game than Pong because there is more exploration and better graphics
>Postal 2 is a better shooter than HL2 because the story is funnier and you can pee on shit

Judging the game as a while, Deus Ex did almost everything better, had more interesting interconnected systems, more complex levels, stronger characters, subtler humor and better upgrades/powerups/etc. It was just a better game with more to see and do. DN3D has better running and gunning and better weapon variety. IMO, DE wins.

Want a different game with better weapons? STALKER COP. Now tell me how it had no humor and the character didn't have a big personality so therefor it is worse than DN3D.

Whoooooooo wanta some Wang?

The original Shadow Warrior was fair superior to that white washed, PC, non-offensive to Asians garbage they released.

I find it difficult to put into words why I don't like Shadow Warrior but love Dook and Blood. I think it might be the weapons, they were all so damn weak and inaccurate. Bullet sponge enemies didn't really help all the much either, or the fucking trial and error shadow ninja encounters.

>Being this buttblasted
What a faggot, take your shitty game to your own thread.

>le more = better

Doesn't change the fact Deus Ex plays like shit until you get to the end of the game lmao.

>One greentext sentence and a one sentence of "LOL NO ITS BAD"
Yep, can't even think of a rebuttal. Great minds and all that.

Enjoy your circle jerk about how great your mediocre game which was eclipsed in under half a decade was.

>rebuttal
All you did is
>nuh uh it's le better gaem in every aspect xD
Kill yourself retard.

>the guns in DN3D are more fun therefor it is a better FPS
sounds about right

But the grunts would shoot themselves out of fear if had shot them a few times.

That was cool.

Yes. Easily top 3, even.

shitty posts get shitty replies

Enjoy your linear as all hell new releases that can't even do a fucking working mirror

sure
Descent 2 is the best fps of all time though

I think I speak for everyone when I say: Fuck this Enemy.

Fuck it straight to the bowels of bloody, blackest Hell.

>Swat 3
>Tribes 2
good taste

>dodges my rockets and devastator shots
>takes too long to kill with chaingun
NIGGER

Liztroops are the regular alien mooks, the very first enemies you encounter in the game.

There are actual lizard enemies in a few other games, though. Zero Hour for example.

>it shows its age
yeah, by having more interesting weapons, enemies, and levels (ESPECIALLY levels) than 90% of FPSes that come out today