The illusion of choice

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Don't you get it? It was all planned by god king Miyazaki. He wanted you to feel like a hero doing heroic things, he presented you with options, but ultimately you were never a hero. No, just a pawn in a game much bigger than you could ever be.

It's so simple gosh I don't understand why all you simpleminded plebs can't grasp this beautifully crafted art piece bestowed upon us by our dearest of lords: Hidetaka Miyazaki-san.

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A theme of the game is human transmutation into hybrid beasts -probably trying to find a way to become more powerful.

And in the Grand archives were this studies took place we see a lot of primordial serpent statues -with feathers nonetheless.

That was not a coincidence.

The sequels kinda suggest that ALL endings happened because of the "time is convoluted" thing.

What does it mean?

The primordial Serpents hold the secrets to metamorphosis. They are like larvae inside earth. And they need darkness to transform.

>The sequels kinda suggest that ALL endings happened because of the "time is convoluted" thing.

No, DaS3 suggests that the True Dark ending never happened. The new champion succeeded the Lord of Cinder every time until the Lothric Prince who was too weak to do it.

The question that is yet to be answered is the ORDER in which the lords Linked the fire.

Lore baiting that will never amount to anything.

And the other question is how many Lords linked the fire. Was it only the 4 we see in the game ?

Is this from some dlc? Did the snakes ever get explained?

That's the dark lord ending to the first Dark Souls

Miyazaki has no fucking idea how to follow the plot, last DLC is proof enough.

>one doc left
>tons of questions to be answered
>supposedly, 3 is the last one
I don't know how to feel about this

Meant to say one dlc ducking autocorrect gonna disable that shit

>guys buy my dlc pls it will really explain everything!

who the fuck is sister friede and father ariandel? why more question? i want answers

why, why whyyyyy

When you say 'follow the plot', that means that there is some predefined ending that you're aware off and he's not.

What if a true dragon linked the fire?

Didn't a guy buy most of the das rights and forced them to explain most of the lore in the dlc, because aoa explains nothing

dragons can't link fires dipshit. everyone knows that.

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What all is still unanswered?

I like to believe the first game is the only one and the rest are just forced sequels

what ended up happening to Gwynevere?

Are you implying you believe that IP rights work like stock options?
Are you fucking stupid?

Why are there multiple kaathes?

>vaati makes a thread because he's running dry on video fuel

Can primordial serpents die? What if Kaathe and Frampt wanted to kill each other?

It's clear as sunrise that the DLC was originally about Velka and Lloyd but they changed their minds at the last minute.

>tfw no more cozy bb/ds lore videos anymore

Watched all of Aegons lorethrough of Bloodborne and now I am empty.

Am I the only one that noticed how bullshit it is that gwyndolin lives in the cannon despite giving you an option to kill him in the first game?

I'm not implying anything weeb, that's what i've read

what

Just you.

Post more Gywndolin.

The only thing you need to know how lazy DaS lore really is, is how they treated Artorias in the end of it all.

He has the most of amount of equipment obtainable based solely around him and the DLC just treats him as a generic mid-way boss. Nothing entirely special, he just appears, you fight, then you continue to Manus with no sort of explanation of what the fuck just happened or why he was so important as one of the knights.

They built him up like crazy too. An entire area, covenant, boss just meant to protect his grave and his direct connection the Abyss and Pygmy all implied during the base game.

i gave up trying to understand all this bullshit

If you read that someone somehow bought "most of the DaS rights" and you come here spouting it without a second thought, then yes, that means you actually implied you whole-heartedly believe IP rights work as stocks.

Retard.

>gwyndolin lives
Wasn't he consumed by an old god?

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I think user's complaint is that he's there to be eaten at all

Not really, you never really usher in the age of dark until DS3. In the earlier games you either link the fire or become the dark lord. It wasn't until THIS game that you had the option of snuffing the flame out.

It's implied that any ending in the first few games CAN BE canon, because it doesn't fucking matter what you do. You linked the fire? Great, the world is bathed in light for a little while longer but the fire will fade again. You became the dark lord and left the flame alone? Someone WILL come and defeat you and link the flame anyway.

Lots of shit happens between games, we don't even know how many cycles there are.

The point is that Artorias is a little bitch who took all of the credit for killing manus

That's because you literally went back in time and killed Manus but all anyone but the Serpents know is that Artorias went down to fight the Dark Lord and died saving the world, he's built up for the things you did.

I think it's more chinese whispers of legends

...Follow what plot? DSII was disconnected from the first game, DSIII meagerly attempts to connect things. It was made up as it went along, however DaS1 is self-contained.

But yes, that is exactly what happened. Frampt tells you you're the Chosen Undead, but really it could've been anyone. He tells you you're supposed to cast out the dark, but humans are actually made of dark. Kaathe states that humans were enslaved and imprisoned by Gwyn, you're being manipulated into keeping the kingdom of the man who imprisoned your people going. Gwynyvere doesn't exist, and tells you to succeed Gwyn (read: burn for centuries) to keep the status quo for Gwyndolin.

I don't understand what you're doing here. It's a nice subversion that goes completely in keeping with the tone of the game.

Frampt is behind the entire Link the Fire religion of Lothric, like Kaathe is behind the Sable Church and Londor's covert operations. The Primordial Serpents are still playing the same game.

Yeah, nah. If you're going to bring in the TIme-Travel element into this, get fucked because that just creates a paradox that fucks more shit up.
Much like Gwyndolin still existing, I doubt the DLC was considered canon.

He wasn't a crusty undead, so I'd assume he left a corpse.
NPCs and bosses vanishing could just be for effect. It would be strange as hell ragdolling Gaping Dragon.

...That's the point. This thread is fucking bananas.

Yeah it's a paradox but that's the nature of the beast that is time travel in any form of media.

It was pretty obvious that he was an ILLUSION just like Ornstein

I just finished Blighttown, when does DaS1 lore actually start happening?
>read description of boss weapon
>"this is the big weapon this big demon had to kill guys"

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Before you leave Blighttown, talk to the woman sitting in the dirt outside Queelag's Domain. She is at the base of one of the pillars surrounded by swamp.

>"the DLC just treats him as a generic mid-way boss"
>arguably one of the best and most hectic bossfights of the entire SoulsBorne franchise

>you continue to Manus with no sort of explanation of what the fuck just happened
It's pretty obvious from context: Arty went down into the dark to stop Manus but got corrupted by the dark souls (or humanity) of the abyss, making him batshit crazy and giving him the power of purple magic goo

>or why he was so important as one of the knights
This is explained even before the DLC. He's the goddamned Abyss Walker. Killing his pet doggy to acquire this ability is required to complete the game.

She doesn't appear until you upgrade the pyromancy glove.

The lore starts happening when you wake up in the Undead Asylum and talk to Oscar.

Are you sure? Well fuck.

reminder that not linking the fire is the only good ending. it's simply a world without gods. the undead curse is because gwyn fucked up things linking the fire, the not linking it ending is patrician tier

The serpents are power-hungry jerks that want to be the masters.

>entire SoulsBorne franchise

Dark Souls and Bloodborne are not the same franchise, genius

>hey dude please do my quest of ringing the bells
Yeah that's not lore happening, that's hints at the possiblity of a story

>>arguably one of the best and most hectic bossfights of the entire SoulsBorne franchise
He's an incredibly slow pushover, as long as you can do enough damage to stop him from his power up he's easy as shit.

Someone else will just link it instead.
The world needs nuking.

Wrong, the only good ending of Dark Souls 1 is not finishing the game at all, which was the intention of the game, straight from the horse is mouth. The game has a win condition but you're supposed to want to not take it and instead live on in that world.

Both Link the Fire and Dark Lord are just playing into the hands of the snakes.

Ahh, but story does not equal lore. If you're the guy who just finished Blighttown, Oscar's "there is a saying in my old village," becomes very bleak later if you meet Kaathe.

Don't you get it? It was all planned by god king Kojima. He wanted you to feel like a hero doing heroic things, he presented you with options, but ultimately you were never a hero. No, just a pawn in a game much bigger than you could ever be.

It's so simple gosh I don't understand why all you simpleminded plebs can't grasp this beautifully crafted art piece bestowed upon us by our dearest of lords: Hideo Kojima San

Never.

The lore is just conversations and is entirely pointless.

It's like The Last of Us. Just watch a youtube video of it and it's exactly the same.

Watched TGADave do a thorough playthrough of bloodborne and it was pretty cool
I think it's still on twitch but not for long. and it's like 30 hours long.

>Ahh, but story does not equal lore.
Exactly my point, just the guy having a quest and you continuing it is all the lore you get for the first five hours or so
I'll pay more attention to everything now though because the consensus seems to be that shit starts happening now

I was just thinking about that notion the other day. I think I've spoken to you a year or two ago? You went on about how the game's covenants make it so you never actually have to finish the game, and that that is the game's actual purpose. In-universe however someone will link the fire if you do not.

And that's why Nashandra wanted to covet the Throne Of Want in DSII. Which a lot of people missed for some reason.

>playing into the hands of the snakes

How so?

Being lock away in an undead asylum for some reason is in it self the premise that you eventually extrapolate lore from. Why where you there?
Lore isn't story. Lore is shit that's already happened in the world that gives it it's flavor. The actual story of DS1 is rather simple though. It's just never completely laid out in front of you.

>I think I've spoken to you a year or two ago? You went on about how the game's covenants make it so you never actually have to finish the game, and that that is the game's actual purpose.

We haven't spoken, and I haven't heard that about the Covenants before, but that's super interesting and makes a lot of sense in game.

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>Why where you there?
Because people lock away hollows so they'll stop bothering them

Lore.

youtube.com/watch?v=3lRkeHOiCpk

I still love the hollowed ass out of DS

Probably Rosaria now
Emphasis on probably

Snake's have always been symbols of deceit. And Frampt is shown to lie to the player if you find Kaathe or dig deep enough in other places. Pre-DSII, following Kaathe or Frampt had you break the seal of New Londo, unleashing the Darkwraiths upon the world.

Kaathe illuminates Frampt's lies, but Kaathe doesn't tell you what an "Age Of Man" entails. Why does Frampt cooperate with Kaathe in the dark lord ending? Are Frampt and Kaathe the same being? Who are all the other serpents? There is no good reason to trust either serpent. It was so vague that neither DSII nor DSIII even tried to explain it.

Are they attached like Catdog or do they all sit ass to ass?

Exactly

DEEPEST LORE
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>It wasn't until THIS game that you had the option of snuffing the flame out.

Yes because Yuria helped you out with it. But it's kinda like what the Firekeeper does in the Secret Betrayal ending. She holds the fire and lets it fade. You hold it and up in in you.

>Can primordial serpents die?

yes. Just like dragons, they can live forever but they can die. A direct japanese translation of the moment you kill Yuria says "Kaathe I failed your dying wish" Instead of "Kaathe, I have failed thee"

Das 2 has those re-tooled dragon ass monsters that basically look like larval serpents.

>Hey kid, Link the Fire and you'll totally be a king too! I'm a kingseeker I know this thing
>Hey kid, don't listen to him gotta bring about the age of dark, then you'll really be a dark lord! I"m a darkstalker, I know this thing

Here's a question,
>The Primordial Serpents make appearances in 1 and 3
But do they make any in 2?

So why are there a million billion hollows wandering around not in the Asylum

the age of man is just the AGE OF MAN, an age without gods. it's just man and everything else, no gods.

Didn't Frampt say that he was a good friend to Gwyn or was that another of his lies?

I hate this meme that what Manus did to Oolacile is what "true humanity" is supposed to be like.

The 4kings and dark wraiths are another example of humanities true form, meaning it's likely the only reason Manus looks like that is because he's angry.

Nope. Different directors and designers.

The serpents were regarded as angelic deities. The same type of transformation between Kaathe/Frampt and the statues happened in real life with the angels, who became much more comfortably human.

Which king is the best?

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Addendum: But what is certain is that the Age Of Man is a world without gods.

Indeed. The covetous serpent ring (and the other serpent ring) describe serpents as imperfect dragons. Where you find the redone dragon asses in DSII is called the
"Lair Of The Imperfect."

The only hint we get of the serpents is at the Shrine of Winter, and the other two shrines: Three serpentine bodies coiling upwards with their heads chopped off. I always took that as Vendrick not taking any of Frampt or Kaathe's shit, and that he murdered all the serpents.

>Aldia is fighting the Snakes just off screen in conceptual Euclidean combat throughout the entire game

The prison is half destroyed and the guards have turned into shambling undead and to top it off, the crow takes you to a land where the curse has already run it's course.

Nah fuck you I think I'm gonna make my waifu extinguish the fire permanently and then cuddle with her in the dark.

because not all the hollows are in the asylum, and oscar gave hollows keys so they could get out of the asylum, they probably went hollow after.

Well, yeah. But why?
Because Serpents can't enter Paintings.

>But do they make any in 2?

What no one considers to be canon in the Dark Souls series for 500.