Was this a good twist?

Was this a good twist?

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So MC is actually a little girl? Well, definitely not a bad twist.

I didn't even realize it was a "twist" until someone on Sup Forums said so.

This.

Maybe if you didn't play Ever17

No. A good twist is one that's right beneath your nose the entire time and instantly makes sense upon revelation, leaving you amazed that you were tricked.
This shit is an asspull out of nowhere.

So what exactly is the twist? Never played this game and don't intend to.

Zero Escape series in a nutshell honestly.

I thought it was a nice twist and made interesting use of the 2 screens

was not as big a fan of Sigma being an old man with a robo-eye the whole time and never once looking in any reflective surface or touching his face

It wasn't really a twist because it's never foreshadowed in any shape or form until the last half hour of the game. There are even glaring errors like future characters appearing on cards on Akane's screen. It was obviously a last second addition.

As much as people like to shit on old-man-Stigma there was setup to that.

Loved 999. Most people I discuss it with seem to think VLR was the best game overall, but I thought it was the start of the decline of the series. The twists were trying too hard to outdo the first game, and the massively reduced gore and horror elements to appeal to the japanese audience really made the game take a giant hit in the atmosphere.

i agree with the """"horror"""" part but it makes more sense that vlr of the two is like that in the context of the game
even old sigma isn't a complete sociopath like akane is

>reflective surface
if you go to the infirmary there is a dirty mirror that he comments about being unusable, they didn't ignore this plot hole, it's just really hard to work around.

>touching his face
This is questionable, but his arms were bionic too and he didn't notice. This just leads me to believe that, like muscle memory, he didn't realise because his body was used to it. The bigger question is why characters who aren't from the future never comment on it.

I thought it was a pretty good conclusion, yes.
A bit silly, but most fiction is a bit silly if you try looking at it too hard. Plus, given that it is a japanese video game, I wasn't putting very exacting standards up for it to begin with.

>So what exactly is the twist?
Ayane was kidnapped when she was 10 and forced to run through the game in a Titanic replica in order to develop some psychic powers. Fast forward to the present, Ayane kidnaps everyone and places them in a Titanic replica in the middle of the desert. The whole plot is to replicate what happened 9 years ago so closely that Junpei develops a psychic connection to the 10-year-old Ayane, in order to transmit the solution to the puzzle that Ayane needed to survive the last trap room.

what about the water that he sees his reflection in at the end, in the area that you go through earlier solving puzzles? The twist did have decent setup, though

While this is correct, I feel like it kind of works because so much of the game is devoted to building up to it, with the ideas of morphic resonance and such being discussed at length beforehand (although it was really info dump-level). I feel like the pieces all form into a much better whole to help the twist work.

Sigma in VLR was total bullshit though. He never saw a reflection, really? What about the mirror in the medical bay? Or the fucking pond where you have to do a puzzle by looking into?

ya this... it's cool in theory but should have been set up better. not to mention the errors.

fuckin 10/10 game though

VLR is a much better "game" in that the gameplay and the puzzles aren't garbage like they were in 999. It flows a lot better with the route map and you don't have to play through the same puzzles over and over for a new 3 minute ending.

999 looks better, someone actually drew those spites and don't get me started on those shitty 90s FMVs in VLR.

Aesthetics, characters and story are all debatable imo

it's always interesting to me to see which game people prefer, I think they both have their relative flaws and strengths and that it depends on what matters more to people

everyone can agree that ZTD was hot garbage though

I don't think most people remember anything from Ever 17 anymore besides the washing machine gif.

It's not really an excuse but I think you have to get pretty close to a body of water to see your reflection because you're at an angle. At this point though I'm basically just filling the plotholes in myself. They probably should have just given him an artificial face.

The twist is that you were actually playing as the girl the entire time, vicariously witnessing the plot of the game from 9 years in the past, solving the puzzles for the main character because you had already solved them.

The final puzzle of the game has you turn the DS upside down as the main character now has to solve a puzzle for the girl, saving her life.

But it was under your nose the whole time.
Depending on where you held your DS, possibly literally.

You didn't think it was odd that the bottom screen narrated the game from a third-person perspective even though the events of the game were being witnessed in the first on the top screen?

>he bottom screen narrated the game from a third-person perspective even though the events of the game were being witnessed in the first on the top screen?

That's fucking stupid user.

All I can say about ZTD is that I'm glad it got made and we have something to complain about. The only thing worse than a bad bad ending is setting up for one and never following through.

I'm sure ZTD had some redeeming aspects. I'm probably never going to play through it again though.

Well you can't say it wasn't staring you in the face the entire game.

That's stupid user.

I paid full price for it but I don't really regret it, I finally got to see the end of the trilogy, even if it was definitely the weakest of the three.

>everyone can agree that ZTD was hot garbage
I liked it

That said, I didn't have the years-long wait from VLR as I played the whole trilogy this year.
So I didn't get into the hype or the theorycrafting or anything.

Coming from VLR, I didn't really know what to expect other than "go to the past and stop Radical-6"

And I got that.
So, I can't really say I was disappointed.

>You didn't think it was odd that the bottom screen narrated the game from a third-person perspective even though the events of the game were being witnessed in the first on the top screen?
No. It became quite common for DS games to devote the second screen for one singular purpose, either text or menus or the action (for touchscreen games).

I mean, that same logic could easily apply to something like Ace Attorney - you actually play as Mai from beyond the grave, manipulating evidence to aid Phoneix Wright! - and you can see why it comes off as a trivial comparison. Sure, it's rather neat that is how the game works, but it's hardly any clue or indication while playing the game that the bottom screen is young Akane's viewpoint.

The whole "Akane gets hot an feverish on wrong routes" is a far better indication. Also, the comparison doesn't work quite well when you consider that young Akane only took one route through the ship back when she was a child, but you still get the dialogue and puzzle options for all rooms in the bottom screen.

ZTD is the best in the series.

>Playing 999's final section after having already read ever17 years prior
Then I later learned that Uchikoshi worked on both and it made a bit more sense

No

It was fucking stupid

>You didn't think it was odd that the bottom screen narrated the game from a third-person perspective even though the events of the game were being witnessed in the first on the top screen?

Not really, maybe something was lost in translation or something, but for me at least, third person narration is not enough meat to justify a twist on that level. I mean there were so many opportunities to drop a subtle hint or two. Then the play can go back and replay the game with a whole new perspective, maybe objects that appear in the background on one screen aren't on the other, anything really.

>that same logic could easily apply to something like Ace Attorney - you actually play as Mai from beyond the grave, manipulating evidence to aid Phoneix Wright!
Except that the bottom screen is designated as the Court Record. This is acknowledged directly by the game.
Also this wouldn't make any damn sense in Apollo Justice.

The bottom screen in 999 is where you, the player, control the game. The top screen is where the story takes place, the part you have no part in.

So now it's revealed that the bottom screen was Akane's perspective, and the top screen was Junpei's. That's why you couldn't do anything on the top screen, because you aren't Junpei.

I think it's a pretty good way to weave the two screens into the narrative, and it's not like it's even really a plot twist. Just a meta, platform twist.
I guess.

>Akane only took one route through the ship back when she was a child, but you still get the dialogue and puzzle options for all rooms in the bottom screen.
Akane is still Zero who designed the Nonary Game to be a replica of her game from 9 years in the past.

Morphogenetics

>maybe something was lost in translation
I would't say that's the case in the screen twist.

But uh, the q door twist was absolutely fucked.

Anyway, I remember way early in the game, I thought "why am I getting a narration on the bottom screen when I'm seeing everything on the top screen?"
Maybe it's not something a lot of people would think about.

Not as great twist as Q being a blind deaf guy on a wheelchair

>get to the endings where Q-Team all have weapons on each other
>type in Delta for shits and giggles because I saw the name on Sup Forums in passing, and noticed a fourth ending on the timeline
>Sean shoots the camera and suddenly Mira and Eric know Sean's name (at this point I still thought he was Q)

Fuck that was so confusing for the longest time
I went down that timeline as like one of the first endings I got

Not gonna lie, I didn't see it coming but that might be because I thought "Q" and Q-Team weren't very interesting.

No, you didn't see it coming because it's the biggest deus ex machina in the history of the universe

Just finished Remember11 and I'm desperate for more VN/adventure games with good twist.
Can anyone recommend me some game?

I've already played
>Ever17/Remember11
>Danganronpa series
>Phoenix Wright
>All the zero escape series
>Ghost trick
>All the Science Adventure series

Also I can read moon.

That's not what a deus ex machina is though. If you want to call it a bad twist, go ahead, I'd be inclined to agree.

higurashi
downside - its really fucking long

Go play YU-NO and by "play" I mean use a guide or go check out the user guide on /vn/ via /vg/

That's a lot of them. Umineko's pretty good.

Have you checked out the occultic;nine anime? Worst first episode to a good show I've ever seen.

And the art is abominable

i played with ps2 graphics and original backgrounds
not good, but passable

Wait. If Ayane could kidnap them, that would mean she made it out from the puzzle from when she was a kid, why did she replicate that happening then?

The whole Q twist was really poorly handled.
The Sigma twist in VLR worked because information was being equally restricted from the player and Sigma himself.
With Q, the entire cast is supposed to be fully aware there's some suspicious "deaf-blind" old man wheeling around and that the kid's name is actually Sean and all of that information is just conveniently withheld from the player.

What is better, anime or VN?

Also I forgot VNs name, where is a twist that MC was always breaking 4th wall asking "players" opinion and sometime some people directly talked with "you" in the end we discover that it always a was little girl behind him

iirc hig anime isn't actually that bad compared to other vn adaptations
but you should probably just play the game anyway

To create a stable time loop.

Akane (sorry, misspelled the name) survived as a child because she got a psychic connection from Junpei in the future. As such, she needed to replicate the events and kidnap Junpei in order to have the future event take place, so that the psychic connection was established in the future as well.

It's a slightly different way of looking at time travel, where if something was already established to have happened, then that means that it must happen. It's somewhat supported given that Akane starts burning up and disappears any time you go off the True Route.

It's explained that she's in a state of being both alive and dead in the "future". Think Schrödinger's cat, but the misconstrued version that the Japanese use in all their media. Her being there with Junpei happens because she's manipulating the outcome of the game in her own timeline and yeah it's timewimey bullshit.

It's... complicated.

The entire story is founded on a slightly fantasized version of morphogenetic field theory, which supposes that there's an unseen field that connects all consciousness.

And the Akane that shows up during the events of the game as "June" is more or less a projection of Akane from 9 years ago, mostly for Junpei's benefit.

She sort of represents a Schrödinger's cat as a barometer of Junpei's success; June will suddenly become ill if he makes decisions that bring him down the wrong timeline, foreshadowing the true events of Akane's death.

June can only be in the Nonary Game if Junpei saves Akane in the Nonary Game.

It's some causal loop shit, it makes more sense in the game's context.

I love Umineko but it's hard to recommend it because it's so fucking convoluted.

Anyone?

The Q twist would honestly have worked so much better if ZTD had used the same perspective as 999 and VLR.

Then, all they'd have to do is have Diana and Carlos be behind the screen, and then you notice that "all" of Q-Team is represented with models in the novel segments.

Going for 100% cutscenes completely ruined a twist that could have maybe gone over well.

I don't think they ever say "Q" in reference to Sean, I believe it's only mentioned when Zero names the leader of Q-Team, and it'd be understandable for Q-Team to act like Q isn't there since he's supposedly a vegetable.

But as the game is now, we have to somehow reconcile the idea that Delta is constantly re-positioning himself behind the camera's POV for the sake of this twist.

Sharin no Kuni, Himawari no Shoujo is the name of the VN you are referencing. I've never played it before but I've had the twist spoiled to me and I didn't particularly like the look of the game anyway.

Read the VN, the anime adaption isn't bad but it's hard for me to comment because I don't like Ryukishi's work.

If you haven't read the epilogue files, don't

Q team's in particular just makes it worse

Already played Higurashi and Umineko.
The O;N anime is great and I look forward to it every week.

Haven't played this one but apparently the remake version will be release next year.

yu-no.jp/

I can't really remember them but doesn't the Q-Team file bring up Mira going back into the past to stop herself from being a serial killer?

Which... retcons not just ZTD, but the entire ZE trilogy.

Umineko is easily my favourite visual novel, It'd be very hard for me to recommend it to someone blind unless I know them and their tastes well enough.

The atmosphere, the fucking amazing OST, the fact that the entire thing stars adults for the most part clashing over inheritance as the backdrop of large scale mysteries.Like the entire thing is so bizarre, yet it pushes my buttons so well.

Aight, so your suspension of disbelief is paramount to enjoy this. I guess I would stomach it since I did enjoy VLR a lot.

They specifically avoid showing any of the character's refer to Sean by name until the reveal scene, which comes off as almost nonsensical when Eric finally does.

>Haven't played this one but apparently the remake version will be release next year.

YU-NO didn't need a visual or audio update. If you turn of the granny, bad voice acting the game is practically a masterpiece in terms of presentation.

How do you feel about the ending and the whole EP8 revelation?

Fairly sure it's because he's strapping young lad Sigma in the other routes, except in the true route. Remember, he's jumping to alternate realities, not going back in time.

On a completely unrelated series.Ace Attorney Investigations 2 had an amazing twist. Would never have thought Simon was actually the real mastermind all along.

I had that fucking thing spoiled for me, really annoying because I didn't suspect it at first. Investigations 2 was crazy good, I played it shortly after Duel Destinies, and those games are night and day quality wise.

Honestly I still have to finish the series. I partly know the 'revelation' but I'm a bit foggy on a lot of it. I got to episode 7, then got super busy, and probably need to replay everything so I can get the most out of the games again.

What's funny is how much of a difference in quality there is between Investigations 1 and 2. The first one has to be by far one of the weakest entries in the series, while the second one is objectively the best game in the entire series.

That's why I put it off for so long, investigations 1 was so incredibly mediocre, my least favourite out of all of them.

>Honestly I still have to finish the series.
Don't.
Just pretend EP8 never happened.

Nah I hated that ending and by extension the rest of the series
Safe ending and all the bad endings were pretty exciting though