Are savestates/quicksaves cheating?

Are savestates/quicksaves cheating?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtu.be/jDlnEDoaLos?t=35s
youtube.com/watch?v=FB9Pym-sdbs
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Unless you only use savestates to save at the in-game save points, yes, it's cheating.

You never realize how much fun save states suck out of a game until you stop using them.

You're only hurting yourself.

Depends on how you use them. I'll use them when I want to stop in the middle of a game and want to come back to it where I left off. Using it to savescum is outright cheating.

Depends on the game.

>Kirby's Dream Course
>various instances in MMBN or Pokémon
Mostly true - it's often just outright cheating. But sometimes, they make that shit bearable.

no

>fun

Time is more valuable as you get older. Thinking about the time I invested to beat games as a kid blows my mind today when trying to replay some of them. Save states are indeed cheating, but they can also be simply a time saver.

Also, frame skip is insanely clutch in old school jrpgs.

Yes it is.
Other than some rom-hacks, or maybe a terribly I don't know why you'd even do it, they make the game super boring.

>zsnes
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

So you are wasting time but just less of it?
What do you even accomplish? Are you really that eager to waltz through all the backgrounds the game has to offer?

>Implying older games knew where to put save points

No, they're an official feature used by Nintendo in the Virtual Console now. They're intended to be part of the natural gameplay of old games.

>So you are wasting time but just less of it?

Bingo, chief. I'm not sitting through a long attack animation. Now some people use it to skip story, but that just feels hollow and foreign to me.

Yes but who gives a fuck, im not going to sit through menus and run back to a spot after ive died it gets repetitive almost instantly. Instead load your savestate and try again.

Well that's understandable but, wouldn't that just be fast forward?

>they're an official feature used by Nintendo in the Virtual Console
What the FUCK is an "official feature" and who gave Nintendo the license to issue one?

>game is hard and has no checkpoints
git gud
>game is long and has no saving/checkpoints
ok as long as you don't savescum
>game uses passwords but i am too lazy to use them
use the passwords
>game has unskipable cutscenes
use the turbo button and stop fucking up

Yeah, at least if you try to use them to get out of situations you're typically fucked in by quickloading every other second. Just using them as an actual save state is fine though.

Speedup definitely makes certain games a lot more bearable. Games like Ogre Battle march of the black queen are atrocious without it. Same with old school JRPG's just being a lot more tolerable with fast forward.

That's a feature I don't consider cheating.

Using savestates is cheating 100%. You may as well just gameshark or game genie 100% health or infinite lives at that point since thats effectively what you're doing.

If you want to play games that way fine, but you don't get to claim you "beat it"

>git gud by practicing the later parts with savestates and then do it for real
Did I cheat?

Kek, you are retarded.

>there are casuals on this board who use savestates
>there are casuals on this board who use quicksaves in FPS games

It depends.
Does internet opinion really matter for you?

>tfw I'm a savesCUMming casual and there's nothing you can do about it

Yes, I am implying exactly that.

Since we're on the topic of emulators, I'm asserting that game published for a major home console from the 1980's or 1990's can be finished without savescumming. If are arguing that older games' save point placement made the game literally impossible to finish, please prove me wrong.

OH FUCK IS THAT ACTRAISER

I LOVE THAT GAME

DO YOU GUYS LIKE ACTRAISER TOO

I never played it, sorry user.

I even prefer it to ActRaiser 2.

I played the shit out of it ten years ago or something, absolutely loved it

Damn right I do

Essentially, yes.

But then you have things like Matt Bozon or Rareware saying, "Yeah, Shantae GBC and Banjo-Kazooie shouldn't have had Lives and should have kept your collected Notes in each level, respectively." Save States enable that.

Or some shit like Tidus' "Dodge 200 Lightning Bolts." If your pet or relatives or a power outage disrupted you OR you have some physical disability that makes that difficult but still want the sense of achievement, you now have a tool to utilize.

But let's get real, here - grown-ass men aren't going to get a worthwhile sense of achievement from completing games made for children. Go run a business or surpass a physical feat world record or volunteer or something.

youtu.be/jDlnEDoaLos?t=35s

The problem with god games is that Molyneux pussified them. Actraiser devs knew you had to personally fuck shit up then go lord over your people

Theres no sense of accomplishment in cheating.

You say "go run a business" as if it's comparable to sitting on your ass for an hour dodging lightning bolts for ultimate weapons in FFX.

Games are for fun, if you want to cheat fine, but you didn't beat it

>Guy from Rareware going back on design decisions
Well whatever you can do to stay relevant I guess. It doesn't matter what he thinks after the fact. Fact is, thats the way they are. It doens't matter what he says.

It basically is a waste of time trying to accomplish something in a video game that you may very well never be able to. I've spent countless hours trying to beat some of the f-zero gx very hard story missions, and I've pretty much accepted that it's a futile effort for me. Not even sure if save states would help in that case, but I wouldn't claim I beat all the story mode on very hard if I did so with save states.

>grown-ass men aren't going to get a worthwhile sense of achievement from completing games made for children
What's a "worthwhile sense of achievement"?
It's an endorphin rush like ultimately everything is and it's pretty good.

beating a game in one sitting isn't an accomplishment, it just proves you're a child or a NEET. savestates make old games playable in segments for adults, a strict improvement

It's a cool game, i like it a lot.

I'm saying that the definition of the word "cheating" is not being established very well, here. And you're painting sweeping generalizations, coming off as very elitist.

I did say worthwhile.
Now if you want the leisurely sense of achievement and those chemicals, great, whatever floats your boat - I'm certainly no stranger to it.
But I feel like people that play games these days are getting TOO wrapped up in them, like they actually mean or are worth something.

elitism isn't a bad thing

>part of the natural gameplay of old games
Shut your mouth kid, adults are talking.

yes, you skipped the experienced earned with repeating previous parts

Platforming was ass but the town raising segments were amazing

>Theres no sense of accomplishment in cheating.
But there is though, at least if you get away with it. Doing it legitimately is still a better feeling most of the time though.

muh netcode
muh toaster
muh 2007
muh romhacks that only work in it

The worth here is being sure you are speaking of the same experience when you are talking to someone claiming they beat something
>but that doesn't matter!
You are browsing a hobby board on the internet, that's what they are for.

That experience was clearly worthless if I was able to get it right just after a few tries.

Its kinda like backtracking m8, you will either grow so used to the repetition you will git gud for the rest of the game, remember something while doing so or achieve a balance between rage and zen that will allow you to get past that part

plus the satisfying feeling

i have fun cheating in games i beat a long time ago.

>cheating at games like a little bitch is more adult
lmao.

Yeah I do understand, even the repetition is an experience and brings new feelings. If the are is so intolerable then the game is maybe not worth playing.
I've only done the savestate to test out once at the end of ECCO and I felt bad afterwards.

There's 2 types of people that play video games

The I'm a massive fat faggot who plays video games to relax and hear a story manchild who probably owns a ponystation and save scums on easy mode

And then people that don't visit reddit

I want to point out how amazing Actraiser was

Depends on how you use them you buttjerk

Of course, unless you're literally just using them as an extended pause and never load states for any other reason than continuing. Though having said that I sometimes use them to autistically practice the hard bits in older games until I can beat them consistently, so I look good when I stream the legit run.

I don't have the patience or attentionspan to lose hours of progress in a game, due to having to leave the game when there is no save point nearby.

The old save point system is archaic, and savestates makes things better to pick up from where you left.

That being said, I never use savestates to savescumming, because that is actual cheating, but I wont think any less of anyone who does. Who gives a shit if someone uses savestates in games that are almost 20 years old?

In terms of newer games, how do you prevent yourself from savescumming with quicksaves in games such as Skyrim or Baldur's Gate? I personally feel BG and a lot of CRPGs are meant for quicksaves

Dodging 200 lightning bolts is an aggressive waste of time and not worth doing unless you possess pure unbridled undistilled stupidity. You have to have really shitty taste to think that's fun or whatever useless unlock it gets is worth the investment.
>the sense of achievement
What achievement? Oh boy I dodged the lightning bolt an arbitrary amount of times sequentially. A static challenge that is not fun to play and has no place in the game beyond "well, we have these lightning bolts and I guess we could pad out the 100% time by adding a retarded minigame out of it"

If a game allows or is designed around quicksaving, I just sort of emulate how checkpoints would work - saving when entering new areas etc., but never in middle of action.

Only if you use it DURING fights. If you use it to save before a fight starts, then its just for convenience's sake.
I use savestates all the time because its annoying having to lose progress when you get outskilled. I'd rather get right back into the action and try again and not have to sit through a cutscene.

no, its the way it was meant to be played

>is utilizing a game mechanic for its intended purpose "cheating?"

autism

Depends on the game desu, or how I'm playing it.

Games like Pokemon where you can save everywhere I don't consider it cheating, you're essentially removing tedium and pointlessly wasting time through resetting.

Some story-focused RPGs that only let you save at certain points, or level-based games that only save at specific parts I would consider it cheating, however if I'm playing it on my phone or would otherwise have to move away from my computer in the middle of playing, it's a valuable asset.

>its annoying having to lose progress when you get outskilled
Right? I wish they just had a story-mode where you could skip all the challenge too

Nice counterargument. If a game is well designed it will let you pick up the fight again when you die instead of sitting through the 12 hours of walking and cutscenes since the last save point. If a game is poorly designed it won't and thus using savestates is acceptable.

>savestates
>a game mechanic
Pick one.

>there's no way you're taking kairi's heart
>there's no way you're taking kairi's heart
>there's no way you're taking kairi's heart
>there's no way you're taking kairi's heart

autism

You're talking specifically about JRPGs right? You could have been talking about Castlevania or Mega Man or something I guess. I wouldn't call the average JRPG well designed. And I certainly wouldn't say poorly designed games are worth my time.

That fight was easy though, we just got stuck on it 'cause we were children.

>replaying the easy parts over and over is a challenge

Sure, the fight is easy, but I see why some people would prefer not to spend an hour of their lives lost to older games that don't have the foresight ot include a cutscene skip.

Besides, that only applies for vanilla KH; I believe Final Mix and the HD collections added Skip Scene.

Literally not an argument in the slightest sense of the word.

>Are savestates/quicksaves cheating?

Of course they are, what a silly question. It's the complete opposite of playing the game as designed.

I get why people use them, not everyone enjoys things that are challenging, or the grind of getting better at something, and I am a firm believer that you should do what brings you the most fun, but they're absolutely cheating.

"The experience of playing the game" should be more important than "beating the game". You're definitely not getting the first with save states.

Oh, well, of course, there's no excuse to not have skippable cutscenes. I don't know how you design and playtest something like KH without spending five minutes to code a skip function.

>Let me repeat this move over and over instantly with save states until a fluke happens and I get over it!
Could as well just not play the game, what determines a good player is HOW FAST they can surpass barriers, not IF they're surpassed.
When you don't have anything in risk the game just becomes a walking in the park, losing progress can be seen as boring at first, but it plays a great part in the big thing: You only care about losing when you have something in the line.

Yes but who cares in a singleplayer game.

I always did the same as Arino when people started to fight

I keep thinking how nice it would be if there was a Western GCCX equivalent, then I remember how game culture is presented here and think otherwise.

youtube.com/watch?v=FB9Pym-sdbs

Yeah, definitely.

Getting to play god in a large-scale sim and also getting to manifest yourself and kick ass personally is a SWEET concept. Game was pretty fun, too, even if the platforming was a touch clunky.

Ditching the sim aspect entirely for only marginally less-clunky platforming in the sequel was a terrible idea.

dat bass

as far as I remember, they removed the sim elements because they thought it wasn't liked in the west

>you're not playing game like I want you to

You aren't playing the game the way the developers intended and are cheating because you suck too much to play normally. Its like skipping pages in a book because you can't read for shit.

I consider them as QoL improvements and can be very useful in lot of occasions.
Like when there's multiple choices and I already know the better choice/ the option I'm going to choose, I'd pick the other options after savestate just to see how it go.
Some good example would be the persona games, I could deliberately fuck up the dates to see the more comical outcome without having to go all over the scene again.

What an awful idea

hard as shit