What exactly is the appeal of "classic" turn based RPG gameplay? ESPECIALLY in game that has little else to offer but this gameplay and sells itself on that specific point?
Even when I was younger and had a softer palette and more patience for annoying mechanics in video games I saw turn based combat as arduous and boring at best. Turn Based Strategy was significantly less boring since character placement offered me that slight bit of control and involvement that I craved, but even still fell to the same caveats.
Action-oriented combat was always better, even if it was just a one-button mashfest, because at least it actively involved me.
To this day I still don't understand the appeal of turn based "select your most powerful attack from a context menu and the most threatening or lowest health enemy and watch a contrived animation about it" combat and I don't think I ever will.
What I'm really asking here is... why is it so popular? Who begs for this kind of combat system over something engaging, involving or interesting? Why would you want something like this over something more compelling? Why is it, for some people, considered the de facto best way to handle combat?
That usually turns off a chunk of people when they experience a stream of combat, turn based can be very comfy
Robert Ortiz
OP you need to shorten your posts when you make threads. Very few care enough to read a long OP.
>What exactly is the appeal of "classic" turn based RPG gameplay? ESPECIALLY in game that has little else to offer but this gameplay and sells itself on that specific point?
This is all what you really even needed to say. You could have blogged about the other things once your thread got going.
Blake Stewart
Because some people are just boring, and want boring games.
John Moore
>What exactly is the appeal of "classic" turn based RPG gameplay?
To offer a different style of gameplay. Turn based gameplay offers a level of tactics and spectacle that action style just cannot match. Imagine something like Knights of The Round in real time combat? It couldn't work.
Games should offer a variety of themes and gameplay styles. Fewer genres means fewer games.
Jason Rodriguez
it forces you to think.
no t really going to get ito it becasue its fucking late. but thats basically it. forces you to think.
people don't like thinking, so they want to button mash. its why all the FF's after X have been shit. unless you really like MMOs.
Julian Ortiz
It was quite chilled, worked for the time, and people are nostalgic for it. What's wrong with playing to peoples nostalgia?
World of FF had turn-based and actually turned out better than I could have imagined. I enjoyed it from start to finish, yes the chibi thing was a little kiddyish but it was a solid game.
Asher Wright
Because it's fun for strategical players
Those kinds of games put a lot of the mechanics into sorting your party and choices you make in the game rather than being able to just shitfuck the dumb AI by hiding behind a wall and then shooting when the dumb AI pops up for no reason at all.
Nathaniel Smith
>FFVII >Turn-based
Final Fantasy's ATB system isn't turn-based, it's real-time but menu driven.
Nolan Brown
>Thinks ATB is turn based
Autism.
Aaron Carter
All basic turn based battle systems suck fat FUCKING cock.
If you can actually move around the battlefield like in FE, then it can work. But just basic attacking and fucking materia and shit- it is BORING.
Henry Morris
>typing like this You don't belong here.
Christian Edwards
A turn based strategy game (that isn't Disgaea) requires thought.
A "classic" RPG does not.
You use whatever attack is strongest against whatever foe you're fighting, heal if you're low on health, and focus your attacks on the most troublesome foes first. This is the de facto victory strategy and never DOESN'T work.
Don't bullshit me and say it requires thought, because it doesn't. And if your battle system isn't going to be intuitive, engaging, or interesting on any level at least have the decency to involve the player in a larger capacity than just selecting options from a context menu.
Oliver Hughes
Simple. It's """"classic"""". People hate changes. To those nostalgic retards, nostalgia is everything.
Mason Reed
RPGs are the "geeks of the geeks" genre in gaming. Turn-based doesn't require reflexes. It rarely stresses you out. Tactical options are rewarded more explicitly, as you don't just roll to the right to nullify anything your enemies can do to you.
There's room for both action-rpgs and turnbased-rpgs. But while people who like turnbased never call for arpgs to go away, or question the people who like them, arpg shitters are constantly questioning the people who don't like action, and demanding turnbased go away and games be catered to them instead.
That's a more interesting issue to look at than what the appeal of one or the other is.
Asher Perez
>You use whatever attack is strongest against whatever foe you're fighting, heal if you're low on health, and focus your attacks on the most troublesome foes first. This is the de facto victory strategy and never DOESN'T work.
In ATB it's not fucking turn based you faggot, it's agility based. Meaning the faster your character is the more attacks you get to do.
Meaning, that everything you just said is fucking pointless.
Nathan Martin
>comfy opinion discarded
the short answer is the same reason chinks do anything: tradition. it has been shown time and again that there are many preferable alternatives to the style of pitched battle turn based that games like final fantasy use, both real time and turn based
hopefully FFXV works. i mean its still a "teenage fuccboi kills god and saves the world from men over the age of 30" simulator, but at least theyre trying new things in the combat. i wont be buying it, but im hopeful that itll herald a change of pace for the genre
Owen Harris
The appeal lies in selecting from a wide range of options and making the best use of your turns.
Using up a turn leaves a character vulnerable until the next, so prudent decision making is an attractive key point.
>Who begs for this kind of combat system over something engaging, involving or interesting?
RPGs are engaging, involving and interesting for its fans. It's the same way a person hates chili for its burning sensation, yet another person loving chili precisely because of it.
Ryder Hill
95% of battles are just mashing attack or using strongest spell/summon because there is no limits.
Bosses are the only thing that requires any bit of thought, because they last several minutes long and have a back and forth exchange the entire time. Which makes you utilize items and protective/healing magic which you never use versus random battles in said classic turn based NES/SNES/PS1 era game
Daniel Price
because games that offer strategic combat above the level of a bethesda game are rare
Cameron Howard
>You use whatever attack is strongest against whatever foe you're fighting, heal if you're low on health, and focus your attacks on the most troublesome foes first. This is the de facto victory strategy and never DOESN'T work.
You do realize you're basically just saying "defeat your objectives, and keep yourself alive" which is every game ever
Jace Young
Part of what makes classic JRPGs so boring isn't so much the combat but the volume of combat the player is expected to deal with. Unlike Western RPGs the JRPG genre never evolved past its Wizardy-like dungeon crawler roots so the only interaction with the world is via combat. This means that the only way to gather resources (especially EXP) is to engage in battle after battle and often these battles are incredibly trivial and tedious.
Owen Gutierrez
Shooting games are just shooting until you kill the enemy using your best gun because there's no limits
Parker Jenkins
You select shit from a context menu, it's the same goddamn thing.
Then play a Roguelike.
It's turn based and there are massive amounts of options at your fingertips in any given situation and you have full control over what's happening.
And no fucking context menus. Not a single one, in a good roguelike.
"Classic" turn-based combat is just barebones with the only appeal to it being that it requires no real effort or stress or actual decision making skills while affording the player the illusion that they are a cool smart guy for picking what is blatantly the best available option without them worrying about what series of buttons to press to get to that conclusion.
Combat doesn't have to be the central focus of the game, and in that case it can be as simple as "attack things and stay alive"
I'm talking about games that advertise themselves on and RELY upon this "nostalgic" ass turn-based combat and don't offer anything else to make up for how unengaging and boring it is.
Hudson Ramirez
I'll take good action over turn-based RPGs any day. The issue is that most action RPGs, too, suck. On paper, the argument that turn-based RPGs are bland and boring is justifiable when you think that the alternative is this engaging action RPG where you have an arsenal just as big.
But you never do. You don't have a party, unless it's AI controlled. Okay, that's fine, just playing one character at a time is okay when it's engaging and fun.
But you don't have even NEARLY the same amount of abilities available to you. You typically have a strong attack that's slow, a weak attack that's faster, a block, and a dodge roll, along with some special usable with the back buttons of a controller. I'm sorry to say this, but the issue is consoles. The controllers with a minimal amount of fucking buttons force devs to streamline the controls to fit the controllers and the casuals that play with them.
I'd love Action RPGs if they had the combat of, say, Blade & Soul, which just happens to be a PC game.
Cameron Gutierrez
>final fantasy >rpg
Zachary Rogers
Platformer games are just jumping until you kill the enemy using your best stomp because there's no limits
Bentley Thompson
I don't give a shit what your argument is. It's not interesting.
The interesting part is why shitters like you are so threatened by the fact that it exists, while turnfags are quite happy to live and let live with you. What are you so scared of?
Isaiah Richardson
A caveat is a warning. Not whatever you thought. It looks like you thought it meant pitfall or something.
Chase Harris
Has there ever been a turn based RPG game with a timer for all actions? Not ATB I mean. Think something like Pokemon only you have a time limit to take action during a turn or else you lose your turn or a random move is chosen instead.
Does that exist Sup Forums?
Ian Rodriguez
>it's the same thing
No it's fucking not.
>ATB system >your characters ability to attack and dodge attacks is based on a single stat >your character can attack as many times as he wants without waiting his turn
>action based system >character has a dodge/roll mechanic based on agility >higher it is the easier it is to dodge attacks >limited by games engine how many times you can attack at a given time
It's the same fucking thing, the only difference is you feel like you are doing more because you are dodging and rolling instead of actually attacking.
Jonathan Moore
There are plenty of action RPGs on the PC that use keyboard hotkeys to give you more options in combat
Camden Lee
If a game's main focus is going to be combat, shouldn't the combat be interesting?
Let me reiterate:
If the game's MAIN FOCUS is COMBAT, shouldn't the COMBAT be INTERESTING?
Reflex and precision go into shooting games and you move your cursor in real-time to target enemies.
Apples and oranges.
>a modifying or cautionary detail to be considered when evaluating, interpreting, or doing something
That's the definition I was using.
Christian Taylor
That sounds like a pretty terrible idea
Juan Martinez
Japanese people think pressing a button to watch an impressive animation play over and over again is fun. Also they're deeply tradtional and refuse to change, rarely innovating upon the broken dungeon crawler mechanics they ripped off back in the 80s
Liam Hill
something like that exists in Civ Multiplayer I guess
Christopher Nelson
>there are plenty
Too bad they are poorly coded, have terrible graphics and have little to no content in their stories.
Tyler Rodriguez
Baten Kaitos?
Dominic Morris
>"Classic" turn-based combat is just barebones with the only appeal to it being that it requires no real effort or stress
and this is bad because...?
>while affording the player the illusion that they are a cool smart guy for picking what is blatantly the best available option without them worrying about what series of buttons to press to get to that conclusion.
It sounds to me like you haven't played many RPGs. When individual statistics and conditions come into play, decisions aren't as simple as "use strongest attack" or "heal weakened character".
John Brown
Have the Japanese ever attempted to make a more modern RPG similar to today's Western RPGs? The only games I can think of are maybe the Yakuza games and it's really a stretch to even call them RPGs
Nicholas Peterson
what's MP?
John Roberts
Movement, positioning, reflexes, precision, ability to react to new threats all go into shooting games, constantly. Some require more than others obviously.
In a classic ATB game, its just none of that till you hit a boss fight. Its why auto-battle works so fucking well in FF13
Jaxon Kelly
No, you just haven't played any RPG that isn't FF.
Elijah Carter
Have you only played like one rogue like? Many of them are not turn based
Brayden Perez
Baten Kaitos does exactly that. Everytime you level up your deck or some shit you get less and less time to choose your cards, by the end of the game you only get 5 seconds.
Logan Cruz
You select your attacks from a context menu and watch them happen.
I don't care what fancy fucking gimmick it has to make it special, you're still selecting your attacks from a context menu.
This is the important part.
>decisions aren't as simple as "use strongest attack" or "heal weakened character"
Yes they are. You use the attack which is most effective.
It doesn't matter if you have 20 different attacks available to you, all of different types and stat reliances because in the end you're still just selecting it from a context menu and watching it happen.
Isaac Price
I've typed this way here since fucking 07.
Nathaniel Morris
Because it's fun, faggot. >But why is it fun? Because it is. If you don't find it fun, that's it. There's no special reason, don't search for some kind of special reason or understanding. It's like trying to understand why people like different food. They just do.
Aaron Perez
Something no one runs into issues with. The game always drops a ton of ethers on you, and tents, and everyone keeps elixirs because there isn't many good times to use them. Also, you can just buy ethers if you have any issue.
That is a thing in Dragon Quest too. Attrition is a whole different thing if you want to add Etrian Odyssey type dungeon crawling games to the mix
Austin Morris
As opposed to? Using a skill from your hotbar?
Connor Carter
>Have you only played like one rogue like I've played Rogue. Have you played Rogue? Do you know what a game LIKE ROGUE, i.e. a ROGUELIKE would be?
>Many of them are not turn based No. You're too young to be here, so please leave.
Tyler Morales
Bethesda games are semi-popular in Japan for some reason, but most of the western RPGs considered good wouldn't be well recieved in Japan because of the bad graphics and lack of story and 'spectacle'
Ethan Ward
>You select your attacks from a context menu and watch them happen. You select your attacks from a two option prompts on your screen
>I don't care what fancy fucking gimmick it has to make it special, you're still selecting your attacks from a context menu. I don't care what fancy fucking gimmick it has to make it special, you are still selecting your attack from 2 options
>This is the important part. This is the important part.
James Morris
I think this game is more your speed OP
Jason Bennett
In the context you used the word that definition doesn't make any sense. Just from skimming this thread I can tell you are a psuedo intellectual. Keep trying to feel smart bruh. I'm out.
Grayson Peterson
>ARPG combat >dodge rolls >interesting
Dominic Moore
>level of tactics Fighting games, RTS, and tactical shooters are all strategically deeper than any turn based JRPG
>and spectacle >imagine something like Knights of the Round in real tine combat
Super moves in fighting games, any movie game, and QTE shit
Turn-based JRPGs offer nothing that another genre hasn't surpassed them in.
Levi Mitchell
Being serious here, but Pokemon is probably one of the most complex JRPGs on the market in terms of mechanics. All of those mechanics are wasted on an incredibly easy single player campaign and broken multiplayer though,
Samuel Butler
In an action game you're selecting attacks in a context menu as well, your menu just happens to be a physical array of buttons on your controller rather than a menu on the screen.
Also, oversimplifying turnbased combat like that only makes you look like a bumbling retard. Sure, you can just spam your strongest attacks against whatever enemy, and it would work eventually, but only if you're playing on either easy or normal, and it would also take about an hour to beat any boss.
Jose Diaz
You do know that 1. there is more rpgs than just final fantasy and 2. tents only work at saves
Jacob Fisher
Yeah! Your hotbar!
Yep. Two options.
Aaron Price
>all of these needless flips and spins
Kayden Hall
>it forces you to think >95% of JRPG encounters are trash mobs that can be beaten by mashing attack
Wow a lot of thinking
Mason Miller
Isn't it exciting?
Leo Collins
i think turn based was sorta cool and had tension when you didnt know if you died next turn or got a critical hit through. it was intense and i liked it before they made it easy and instantly rewarding like in current final fantasies.
maybe its also because legend of dragoon was a big deal when i was a kid and playing on PS1 at my friends house before going to check out dragon ball z or other fun stuff
Camden Rodriguez
>spin your stick and then press a button >Select an attack from the menu
There's little difference in the end, one just takes a bit more practice than the other.
Carson Johnson
you spelled pseudo wrong
>The oranges in an apple orange are just red, apple-shaped, and have the texture and taste of apples but they're still oranges.
>But while people who like turnbased never call for arpgs to go away
What are FF7R abd FFXV?
Benjamin Cook
>Yes they are. You use the attack which is most effective.
As opposed to using an attack that's not effective? What it the point in saying this
>you're still just selecting it from a context menu and watching it happen.
No because chance/probability is a core mechanic in RPGs, nothing ever happens for certain when you consider things like current buffs/debuffs, constitution, speed, and even geographical positioning in some games.
Daniel Gonzalez
>watch a contrived animation The less animation the better imo. Animation just slows things down.
Jayden Gray
In the end you're still just pressing buttons my friend, one just takes slightly more thought than the other. I don't know why you're so upset about turn based video games though.
Did they hurt your mom or something?
Cooper White
>i'm too autistic to understand why people like something I don't like
Henry Richardson
I agree that they were going for your description but the fact you can back out of an option then completely makes it turn based and negates the whole point.
You cant decide to dodge and then undecide and then re-decide to attack in a realtime scenario.
>Why would you want a video game that's not engaging and interesting? Who are you to choose what other people find interesting? There's more to JRPG's than just the random battles.
Joseph Roberts
Never seen someone calling for the genre to go away because those things exist.
7R gets people uptight because it's a remake. That's not an "arpg is sux0r" issue, but a "you are taking this thing and making it into something we don't think it's supposed to be" thing. Like Ghostbusters.
XV just makes its own bad press any way it can though. Which happens to be every way it can except maybe the box art(And maybe people shit on that too, I have no fucking idea.)
Kayden White
There are currently about 6 threads like this, the norm tends to be about 1 or 2 at a time
Justin Baker
Mario and Luigi is more like an action RPG where you can't move your character. Still better than most JRPGs tho
Hudson Clark
FFXV Kun, why aren't you playing your game?
Samuel Richardson
That's blatantly false though, nobody defending the turn-based RPGs is doing this.
Jonathan Brown
>thinks moving an analog stick takes thought
>action game >I better dodge this attack or I'll die
>ATB system >shit I need to make sure I have on gear that will let me attacker faster >shit I need gear that lets me dodge >shit I need gear that lets me take more damage >I better make sure to find out this opponents weakness >I better make sure when his ult and power spells are so I don't die to them
Meanwhile in a action game you need no thought at all.
>dodge >dodge >dodge >dodge >dodge
Wow much thought.
Asher Williams
I can't, M&L has one of my favorite battle systems of all time while still being turn-based OP is still a faggot though
Tyler Brown
>"select your most powerful attack from a context menu and the most threatening or lowest health enemy and watch a contrived animation about it" combat
Wow you are the dumbest motherfucker
You literally would get filtered at Orthros (at best) if you ever even touched Bravely Default
Carson Anderson
>posting more tales shit Seriously, stop. Tales is below Star Ocean on the action scale.
Asher Ward
i want to manage my team, not 1 guy dodgerolling through enemies i setup my team with weapons/skills, so they have certain strengths and weaknesses i combat enemies with my team, making choices how to defeat them (learn enemy weaknesses, manage mana/items)
Jack Phillips
Why DO people like these classic turn-based RPG games?
I get that you're entitled to your own tastes and all that, but I just can't comprehend it.
It'd be like a large group of people saying "we enjoy eating wet dog shit, who are you to judge us for our customs and habits?"
I'm not telling you what to like, I just don't understand your taste.
