Defend this

Defend this

I cant. It's shit.

No, Early Access is a completely stupid idea and one example of Valve's absolute fucking laziness when it comes to quality control, for people who don't put up with this shit, other example is Greenlight.

Games are expensive to make. Though if Valve really wanted to help, they'd work to lowering the cost of development, but that would be too 'hands-on'.

How the fuck would they help development costs ? Indie games are only expensive to make because every single non AAA dev has piss poor time management. You want valve to subsidise wages for numales to enjoy more tea & noms time ?

Some games that comes out are good, some aren't

Jesus fuck

Is this real?

>tea & noms time
are these faggots serious

It means your game is still going to be updated

in theory it's a great system

Devs allow their alpha/beta games out to be tested, and receive extra money to fund development.

Sadly most devs are fucking hacks and take the money and run.

It doesn't, a developer can call a game "finished" at any time and just leave without too much in the way of repercussions, although I don't know if steam refunds has made any difference towards that (I doubt it)

This is 100% Hello Games' studio.

Do.i get to keep the full game when it's out of Early access?

That's called stuck in development hell and it was already a problem without early access.

its a decent idea but there's no oversight. it should be treated in the same manner as vc financing. right now, buying these games you're essentially acing as an angel investor but you get no actual return. you're instead paying to beta test instead of other way around. what's worse is when you spend your money the developer can, at any time, call it quits with no accountability.

Nobody should be defending early access. You're paying for a beta with no promise of it ever being completed. You're part of what's wrong with video games if you buy early access.

I'm working on a game right now and I consider to release it in early access so I can get money and then add more content. But now I see that a lot of players hate the concept of EA. Do you hate every EA game or just games that looks like unpolished shit and never updates?

Before early access, games that were in development hell usually didn't get sold to people in their broken state

I refuse to buy any early access game out of sheer principle. I don't give a shit how good the game looks. I won't buy it until it's out of early access.

yes, you 'get in on the ground floor' and buy a (potentially) good game for a cheaper price because you effectively 'invested' in it before the product was brought to market in a finished state. however the vast majority of these games never leave early access.

Early Access is like costly Open Alpha.
As long as they're free to access, I have no qualms about Early Access games.

Where's the "Oopsie Whoopsie I Gotta Go Poopsie" and "Beddy Byes" sections located in the office?

But if the main core of the game is completed, and during the EA the developer (me) will add more content like new levels, NPCs and even new endings?

>As long as they're free to access

they're not, that's why we're having this thread.

You say usually because you know of games that were sold to people in shitty broken states.

I don't give a fuck. If it's early access, it doesn't get my money.

Sell me a complete game or fuck off.

Absolutely not. There is no defending the cancerous practice of "well we made enough money and we didn't even finish the game so let's call this next version a release version and call it a day".

>so I can get money and then add more content.
no you fucking won't, it's always, ALWAYS, the same story, you'll get your hands on the money and realize there's no point in adding more content when everyone who wants to get their hands on your game already has.

You are buying the completed game, it's not like you have to buy it again or pay the price difference when it goes full release.

>Defend this

People do it, therefore its a viable buisness strategy for impulse buys.

Video games is a business you fucks.

When will you ever learn?

Sure, but early access has legitimized this practice and the idea of "we'll just fix it later" has become more popular as a result

No. I am not buying a completed game, I am buying an early access game which by definition is incomplete. There is no arguing this.

Once again. Sell me a complete fucking game or fuck off.

>no you fucking won't, it's always, ALWAYS, the same story, you'll get your hands on the money and realize there's no point in adding more content when everyone who wants to get their hands on your game already has.

But what about Nuclear Throne and Darkest Dungeon. Did the devs run away with your money too?

Its not like tons of early access games arent on console too, if you're trying to say something bad about steam

people get to play, devs get playtesters
everybody happy

Imagin that instead of selling you DLCs, the developer sells game in Early Access and just add all the new contend without any DLCs.

EA is decent concept but again, there's no accountability, thus its highly abusable by shitty game developers and the proverbial well is poisoned.

No. I am not happy because you are selling a game that is not complete at full price.

SELL ME A COMPLETE FUCKING GAME OR FUCK OFF WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND ABOUT THIS FUCKING CONCEPT

I just did argue it. By purchasing the early access you have the completed game once it's completed, and usually for less than the full price at that point.

What do you not understand about the world NOT being tailored to you, autismo.

Dont buy it then. Others will.

yeah, that was a weak bait.
Complete games coming out of early access all have major issues like compromising too much on what was initially promised or riddled with bugs.
Wasn't Dead by Daylight the newest game to come out of Early Access? Still being patched as of now.
ARK will never come out of Early Access and yet the dev team pulled out the first major DLC.
I really have no good memories of Early Access.

At least kickstarter projects have FTL for show.
What's EA's feat?

At that point you might as well release the full game as a complete game and add in DLC for free at a later date.

Marking it as Early Access is just a big red flag to anyone who wants to buy it, whether the game is complete or not.

>Others will

And this is one of the biggest reasons I have a problem with Early Access..

Its kickstarter where the devs are expected to put out before they get a dime. If for whatever reason the project doesn't go where it is supposed to, the Devs still get some money and the backers still get some kind of software, even if it is buggy and incomplete. Just like what happened with MGSV.

More like faster internet speeds and easier access to patching has made the idea of fixing things later more commonplace.

No, you fucking retard. You're still not getting my point.

THE GAME IS FUCKING INCOMPLETE

I DON'T CARE IF YOU INTEND TO COMPLETE IT AT A LATER DATE BECAUSE THERE IS NO GUARANTEE THAT THIS WILL FUCKING HAPPEN

REMEMBER SPACEBASE DF9?

SELL ME A COMPLETE FUCKING GAME OR FUCK OFF

Early access was good before Valve ever thought of using it.
Valve ruined it by allowing devs to charge full price for an alpha version. If Valve actually cared about EA, they would force devs to sell games for half price during the EA phase. That's an incentive for devs to actually finish their games and a fair price for the customer who buys a half finished game.

Bottom line: Valve ruining PC gaming once again.

>only 2 games
thanks for proving my point

NecroDancer improved a lot through it, and started in it as a decent game already.

these

it would be better with a timeline banner replacing the existing EA store banner, showing dates of first release and major updates, what's unfinished, and estimated date of completion.

this

>At that point you might as well release the full game as a complete game and add in DLC for free at a later date.
But what if I ran out of money? EA sells will help me to develop the game. That's the benefit for developers, and you players just don't want to accept it.

I defend people right to free to sell anything as long as it is not illegal.
>muh ruining the industry
I bet you think "planned" economy policy is better too.

>And this is one of the biggest reasons I have a problem with Early Access..

Nobody cares about your special snowflake opinon. It will keep happening and there's nothing you can do about it.

Then charge for the DLC. It's not a hard fucking concept.

And if you don't have the money to make the DLC because the game sold poorly, then maybe the game was shit and not worth it anyways

It's something that you have absolutely no obligation to pay for or even be a part of.

You can actively participate in the creation of the game and talk directly to the Devs, possibly have a voice in it.

And you can refund when the game is complete.

It's only bad when the Dev gives up in the middle of it.

don't buy early access games then. desu i think all the bullshit on steam is for the best since we prob wouldn't have any jp anime games on steam otherwise.

it's easy as shit to ignore too

abusable. set full price as $40 for an indie, take $20 during EA; lower price from $40 to $20 afterward.

You're absolutely right. And the industry as a whole is a hell of a lot worse off because of it.

Except that regardless of whether or not I want to take part in it, it still affects me indirectly.

Have you noticed that more devs are going the early access route as of late? Really makes you think...

How I will be able sell the complete game if I have no time to make it because I'm working full-time again?

>force devs to double the price upon release

I don't know, it's not my fucking problem. Maybe you should have managed your time better.

You're not guaranteed anything unless the game is strictly single player or player-hosted. Servers go down, games stop being supported. The important thing is whether or not you wish to play the game in its current state. All the early access titles I purchased were absolutely worth it as-is, and the continued support for them just makes it better.

>And the industry as a whole is a hell of a lot worse off because of it.

Nope. The industry grows larger because of it. Its a money maker. More money in equals more money out.

no. The terms of EA could force devs to not lower the price for the first year after release.

how is this bad? It's how all successful EA games operated before Valve ruined the concept.

The industry grows larger while the games grow shittier.

99.9% of all games on early access are cash grab garbage with no intention from the devs of ever finishing them.

>It's only bad when the Dev gives up in the middle of it.
sounds like most developers

> Have you noticed that more devs are going the early access route as of late? Really makes you think...

To be fair, if I was a Dev I would go at the Early Access route too. Because when you say a game is finished, not only you require to be sure it's impeccable (even the tiniest bugs can put it down) but also you cannot change or add things to it willy nilly anymore. If I put a core mechanic that actually works terrible, people would whine if I suddenly patched it even if I justified it.

>there are people in this thread who are actually defending early access

if you dont have enough to invest into your game, your whole project falls apart. Time and cost management is key to software development. EA takes off your financial burdens but also invites laziness and is infact a bad practice.
Have your priorities in order.

To be fair then, people need to buy things from Devs who showed compromise with their work. Or Devs who already delivered before.

Thats a super hot opinon user. Im sure its relevent as games sell more and more units each year.

The industry is thriving.

I daresay, it would be logical to actually say you are not into video games, nor a fan of video games. It would be more correct to say you hate vidya. You are an extreme outlier.

More money spent on trash games = less money spent on high quality games.
EA business model encourages trash games.

Its not a horrible idea but there should be some limitations to avoid scammers. Any game submitted to EA should have a planned release date within a year of the EA launch and a business plan that outlines how theyre going to meet that launch date. Failure to launch your game would result in the game being removed from the service and refunds given to buyers.

I don't hate vidya. I just fucking despise early access.

See
If games are trash, why do they keep selling more and more?

>hurr durr only AAA devs with lotsa money must make games not indies

A lot of indie games wouldn't be released without EA or other funding programms like Kickstarter.

Undertale, Darkest Dungeon, Besiege, Layers of Fear, Nuclear Throne, Vagante, MegaSphere...

You're basically say "Fuck you" to all the indie developers. Enjoy your EA games then. By EA I mean Electronic Arts.

>in theory it's a great system

So just like communism then?

>how is this bad
You're just being retarded and I'm trying to help you understand that

Videogames do not have a pre-defined value, hence you cannot ''force'' a developer to half that value for any unfinished build. You can't half the price because the price does not exist yet.

The only thing they could do is force them to double the price on release, which is, like previously implied; retarded.

>The industry is thriving.
it's not. more and more cheap indie games selling for $5 each might be a lot of revenue for Valve, but the devs themselves earn very little.
High quality games are 1 in 100

I dont really care about how useful it is to finance a game. The obvious problem is, that people will be already tired of the games once htey are out.

It gives indies great opportunities to fund games instead of relying on publishers.

Just because a few games came out alright through the system does not mean it's a good system.

So, yes. I am. Fuck those developers. And since you mentioned it, fuck Electronic Arts too.

for the same reason mobile games sell. Dirt cheap trash.
Steam = the App Store

There's something morally wrong with outsourcing your beta testing at cost to the beta testers. I'm not aware of any other negative aspect to early access.

>it's not.

It empirically is.

>but the devs themselves earn very little.

Valve takes the same % cut from AAA down to indies. Which is logical, being they advertise to millions daily.

Halving the price before release or doubling the price after release are exactly the same thing.

Mountain Blade did it
KSP did it
Minecraft did it
Then Steam Early Access came and no good EA game has been developed since.

Valve always take 30%.

A lot of games came out alright and they now have their audience. You just don't belong to it and even don't know about these games. I just mentioned the games I played and liked. These games would be impossible to make without EA, and I glad that this system exists.

Though I believe that a developer who want to sell the game in EA must already have an audience - it's nearly impossible to convert steam autists to buy your game because "MUH SHITTY EA GAMES RUINNIN PC GAMING" fad.

The argument wasn't even about Steam's revenue share. You are just copying answers from the Valve shill guide.

Trash is an irrelevant opinon.

Logically, more evidence points to it being not trash based upon concrete evidence.

How do fix Early Access:
Games can be refunded anytime, regardless of purchase date and playtime with the usual refund policy starting with the day of the final release. This should motivate the devs to actually finish their development.

Werent these 90% finished? Same goes with kickstarter, games that are nearly done but need that bit of extra funding for polish are usually the best ones.

HOLD OOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNN

Give me at least 5 (five) games that went out from Early Access into being a complete game WITHOUT being ruined by devs in the process.

OP here

I genuinely did not expect people to actually defend this

You fuckers are always full of surprises

The arguement that indie devs get screwed by steam. They dont. Steam takes the same cut regardless.

Multiplayer games are never finished, just abandoned.

Greenlight, now that I can't defend.

Have you checked the Steam release list lately?

The main gameplay was implemented, but the games were in EA for long time so they could add more content and polish the game balance

The only early access game I have, I've managed to get for free.
I am not going to pay to playtest a game that may or may not be finished in the end.

Yes, it's possible to charge less for a product in unfinished state

It is however not possible to force someone to do so, because the half-price they choose then might be just as high as their normal price would otherwise have been

Have you checked steam sales numbers?

>early access was initialized in 2013

Really makes you think...