So all things considered, why WEREN'T they considered the good guys?

So all things considered, why WEREN'T they considered the good guys?

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They wanted to commit genocide.

Considering most wastelanders would stab you in the gut and steal your shit at sight, you can't really blame them

They are the good guys.

Not genocide. Muties aren't human.

I don't think it's as simple as good or evil.

Are they evil because they indiscrimnately kill innocent people to achieve their goals or have done FEV experiments and other deplorable shit? Was the master evil for attempting to bring about a new paradigm in humanity?

I can't even view post-apocalyptic world building through a light of morality, what if I'm just some asshole trying to survive

this pretty much sums it up. Everyone kills in Fallout. at least the Enclave was killing for a cause, not caps or fun.

>it's okay because everyone else is doing it

Too bad they seem to do nothing about THOSE Wastelanders, since they put up a fight, and they entirely focus on killing innocent and peaceful people that won't fight back

I don't know shit about fallout 2 but in 3 they killed your dad so your vengeance boner was as big as it got and i guess you killed them for that reason
NV and 4 they were all fucking dead unless you made mods to rebuild them

we discuss fallout games here, not oblivion with guns

reminder
the Enclave are objectively the best faction

oh i'm sorry the stick up your ass prevents you from having fun

a lot of enclave WAS killing for fun

they were only bad guys though, because they specifically wanted to kill you.

>be the faction with best technology in the Wastes
>waste it all chasing some ridiculous definition of human purity that is long gone, keep creating retarded plans of arbitrary genocide

Evil AND stupid as fuck.

Not hard when almost every other faction is irredeemable dogshit.

It's also objectively the deadest faction next to the Unity

>Are they evil because...
yes. yes they are. especially when their reasoning boils down to "muh purity"
>Was the master evil for...
Yes he was.

>what if I'm just some asshole trying to survive
Then it's your lucky day when a vertibird lands 50 feet from your tin shack and an Enclave deathsquad steps out and kills you and your family because you're dirty mutants.

One could argue about the rights of muties, but something nobody can justify was their callous murder of vault-dwellers, who were not mutated and were still legal citizens of America being killed by their own military.

If I remember correctly, Enclave got the tech but they don't have the numbers. So they went after stable settlements to recruits but the problem was that Enclave only knew how to achieve things by force.

They SERIOUSLY lacks a public relation department...

>never played fallout 2
>calling fallout 3 fun
....

>Implying it's genocide when wastelanders are all irradiated.

Butthurt muties are the only ones that think they're evil.

Well, if I remember is for destroying your village and vault 13...I think that's enough to make them the bad guys

Tribals for Life
Ooga Booga where the commie women at?

>Not genocide. Muties aren't human.

By that logic, no human has ever been human. Mutation was a thing long before nukes and FEV.

>ridiculous definition of human purity that is long gone, keep creating retarded plans of arbitrary genocide

>first thing the enclave sees once it's back on the mainland is a massive army of super mutants and dirt eating tribals
>not expecting them to think they're the surviving memory of true humanity.

I unironically loved the progression in fallout 2 from being a shitty tribal with a spear that can't hit shit to being a power armored badass with a minigun. The game even had a form of progression with dialogue options being more intelligent and advanced in later areas of the game, the chosen one becomes a smartass too.

>enclave in 2
>not immediately hostile to the player at Navarro, if if you say you're a civilian they'll escort you off-base
>doesn't attack random settlements even though they very well could
>actually working with wastelanders like the Salvatores

>enclave in 3
>lol were ebul

As a knee-jerk reaction it would be an understandable view, but they clearly monitored the situation long enough to see that there were pockets of actual civilization forming out there.

>be illuminati
>wait out nuclear holocaust on oil rig with gargoyles
>spend isolation period developing new technologies
>return to the mainland to find people struggling to get basic necessities to live
"STOP RESISTING!! TOP RESISTING!!!" barked the giant metal vaguely man shaped monstrosity as it blew limbs off of starving dehydrated wastelanders who didn't even have the energy to run away.

I was pontificating vague shit but thanks for the trashing I probably deserved it

I doubt they'd expend man power and resources to kill a few dirty caravan guards, they struck me as more clandestine like "go fuck yourselfs"

it's surprising that even back in the days of 2 the devs got shit for not letting you help the Enclave, but Bethesda didn't seem to learn

Fallout 3 feels like badly written fan-fiction

When does this happen, mutie?

>Enclave in 2 are working on a biological weapon to kill literally everyone except themselves
>not evil

All humans are irradiated
By the sun
And cosmic rays
Of course there's magic FalloutTM radiation and FEV but still.

In the grand scheme of things, they were trying to do good; bringing back civilisation. Something that the Brotherhood barely even tried.

you mean that's not exactly what it is?

yeah but even in 2 they were planning to kill absolutely everyone hell its still better then 3
>be colenal autom
>high ranking enclave man
>hell they listen to me more then the president
>want to put an enclave sticker on project purity and actively try and make it work
>get locked out and called an asshole
>shoot one scientists to show im not fucking around
>I just wanted to help get the purifier running
>nearly get irradiated to death
>barely live
>president wants to put shit in the water to kill basically anyone who wants to drink it
>disagree and go against it
>Im considered the villian
I still dont see why the enclave were the villains in three besides the president.

>enclave in 2
>roving deathsquads that shoot anything on sight patrolling the San Fran metro area
>Burned Arroyo to the ground, who knows how many other villages
>Do the same to vaults
>Have a biological weapon they are going to use to fight a "race" war
>There isn't really any motivation given for this, just "they r muties and we gotta kill em xD pure america"
Don't act like Fallout 2 wasn't black and white as fuck.

I dock them more for sheer incompetence than anything else.

They could have spent all that time developing instead of doing what everyone else is doing and trying to steal a G.E.C.K. and abuse it for their own purposes.

source please that is amazing

>In the grand scheme of things, they were trying to do good
every evil thing in the history of man thought it was doing good.

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>pockets
I'd say Vault City and the NCR are pretty big places.

The enclave work better being black and white, 3's problem was trying to make them gray and fucking it up. Though they did have a few humanizing moments in 2
>That one desk worker thats normally a dick is nice to you if your low intelligence
>"It isn't your fault, my brother is just like you"
Alot of the evil characters were actually pretty nice to low int.

They were idiots who let themselves full under the rule of a dysfunctional AI who would have lead them to exterminate mankind altogether.

>"i gotta kill the enclabe bcuz they destroy my village xD"

>You wouldn't want revenge if someone killed your family and destroyed your home

Fallout went downhill after 1.

2 had too many garbage pop culture references and you didn't even have the option to join the enemy organization, unlike in Fallout.

>It's not evil to murder innocents
Careful with that edge.

>Sup Forumsfags honestly think genocide isn't wrong
I'll enjoy watching you fags hang after being found guilty of crimes against humanity.

They did sort of justify why you couldn't and the pop culture references means the games gonna be dated even more in a few years, but the gameplay itself was good.

it's great how New Vegas covers all types of views towards the Enclave

>I miss those days sometimes. We all had a purpose, you know? I admit that some of the folks in charge were pretty ruthless.
>The rest of us, though - we were just trying to civilize things. The NCR was still new and it didn't look like they'd last all that long.

>Heavy weapons trooper. Nothing better than hosing down a target with an excess of bullets and laser fire.
>By the time I got through with things, not much was left standing. Any morons who didn't run when they saw me coming got what they deserved
>Back then, it was war. If we'd been on the winning side, I'd be called a hero.

Yeah they were the smart ones. The wastelanders should have pulled themselves up by the bootstraps. This is America.

>Enclave: "We have to eradicate all heavily irradiated mutants and restore humanity to its pre-war glory through the use of our advanced technology."
>Chosen one: "ooga booga enclave evil dey kil my tribe of sub-humans"

The Enclave was just mirroring the origin of the United States by killing the natives so they could colonize the territories. Considering the state of the world, you can't really blame them for considering wastelanders as hopeless and backward as colonial settlers considered the native Americans.

For you.

>The "bad guys" are cooler looking, more dangerous, more technologically advanced, more articulate, more educated, elite, and we can't stress enough how guilty you should feel for liking them better. You should want to destroy them

fuck you!

They were just military dudes/armed force branch without a nation so it was only natural for them to try to create a nation. Dangerous weapons and their secret experiments are part of any military culture in known existence.

By the time the chosen one even fucking knows of the enclave he really isnt even a tribal anymore, hell i dont even know how people were able to know he is one just by looking at him. I'm surprised there wasn't an option towards the end to say that you didnt even want to be in the tribe anymore and just become a wanderer.

What is the NCR?

This. Fuck limp-dicked liberals trying to reason with scum, Enclave did what was necessary.

They aren't trying to bring back civilization...they were just killing people randomly with a stupid ideology to disguise...even the boxing league is working more to recreate society than this, at least they provide entertainment

>fallout 3

>they were just killing people randomly with a stupid ideology to disguise
Have you people even played the games?

Actually it only seemed random but they actually did most things for very specific reason. Arroyo? For contaminated human samples and destroy evidence. Vault 13? Uncontaminated human samples and destroy evidence.

They said it themselves, the genetic damage from the radiation was eventually going to doom future generations of Wastelander. Wastelander genes were going to DOOM them human race to extinction. It's cruel to be kind. You need to wipe the slate clean for humanity to survive.

...uh, come to think of it, given that they had the best scientists and technology, doesnt that mean the Fallout world IS doomed? The handful of Vault dwellers cant possibly add enough genetic potential to the gene pool. So humanity is going to be wiped out from genetic disorders?

Why is Sup Forums leaking to Sup Forums again?

We're talking about Fallout you fucking nigger.
Go post this in one of the countless threads where it applies.

>is humanity doomed?

don't worry, todd would never let that happen

>We're talking about Fallout you fucking nigger.
>The entire thread is circlejerking how genocide is not evil

Explain why genocide is inherently and unquestionably evil.

Oh look, he said "nigger"!

The Vault project was the mean to save mankind but it was too fucked up to even succeed. Yea the world is technically doomed but Bethesda will definitely do another retcon to milk the franchise...

But how actually mutated is the average human. Obviously you have shit like ghouls on the extreme end, but besides maybe an extra toe on a few people out there, what is the actual issue with mutation?

...

>Oh look, I'm offended.
No one gives a shit, faggot. They're called insults for a reason.

well it's true

>you can't talk about videogame villains motivations without being Sup Forums

The only person bringing Sup Forums to the conversation here is you. Go be dumb somewhere else.

Sounds like Nazi Germany

The scary part is that Poe's Law is in full swing here and you just can't predict if it's genuine or just trolling.

They're bad guys in a fucked up world. 'Evil' is a misnomer in the Fallout series.

The games become much better if you pretend that INT x 10 = IQ, that the most intelligent an irradiated malnourished wastelander can possibly be is average according to the modern day, and that most of these characters are utter imbeciles who are incapable of understanding basic logic. Remember that the huge, huge majority of the population is raiders, who kill and eat each other at the slightest opportunity.

honestly one of my favorite things about this site desu

More American then the pussy ass Enclave

Never understood why you cant join them in any of the games. I guess TECHNICALLY you can in FO4, since the Brotherhood is literally going full genocide and "muh purity, muh humanity," but the Enclave always struck me as dudes just trying to do the best that they could under severely fucked circumstances.

You want a simple reason they weren't the good guys? Because they fucking lost. And history don't give a fuck about losers

Reminder: The East Coast Fallout games make no sense and you shouldn't think of them as canon.

The only real Fallout games are the ones that take place in the West.

What the fuck are you even talking about

Why would anybody hate whites? They make the perfect cucking targets. Also they make some good entertainment

You can in 3 and technically in new Vegas as well

This is literally every fucking faction. Nearly nobody excepts raiders or fiends does shit different

I'm not gonna read your history books, mutie.

Because no matter how reasonable they seemed to you they were opposed to the player

Would the male Lone Survivor join up with the Enclave in a heartbeat?

>I NO RITE
>WE HO-MANS GOTA STICK TO-GETHR

What history books? Look around. They're not here anymore for a reason

Why did they kill vault dwellers again?

Yes (no)
No
No (sarcastic)