Hey Sup Forums

Hey Sup Forums

It took me a while to admit it, but I'll have to acknowledge now that the Zelda series, as a whole and not just the recent entries, is dumbed down crap for children and girls, as opposed to being serious examples of action and adventure games made for real gamers.

Because of this, I've decided to make a resolution to play the more sophisticated and mature games that people would recommend I graduate too. Too that end, I need to know what these games are.

What games offer the most creative and in depth quests?

What games offer the most clever and ingenious puzzle solving?

What has more compelling exploration and secrets?

Which games give you more freedom to interact with the world in meaningful ways?

What offers more refined and challenging combat?

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Russian roulette sounds like the perfect game for you

time for some no true Scotsmen: the thread

la-mulana

just start with a link to the past then play ocarina then majoras mask then you're good. wait for breath of the wild.
all the others are filler.

Hah, you just said "for real gamers".

havent played majora's mask yet but that cover art is greatest of all time holy shit. how do you even resist buying something that has a cover like this?

I agree with this.

Russian roulette no empty chambers.

By doing your research and knowing they made the 3DS version worse than the original.

Wizardry 4

Zelda is the only game in town though.

Even Okami has stupid rpg-esque battles.

Shadowman or Soul Reaver if you want edgy zelda.

tell me more. preferably no spoilers.
it seems like no matter how good a remake or remaster is, people will always shit on them and its not good enough.
how is this one bad?

Dude, idunno wtf is talking about.

I've been playing Zelda since LttP when I was 3, I own ever Zelda game and I know them all like the back of my hand. That beig said, my personal favorite is MM, and yeah the 3DS remake is a lot more casual-friendly like being able to save your game without playing the song of time, but I loved playing it. Also, all of the bosses are much more challenging in the 3DS remake and that is an objective opinion, not subjective.

Also, Zelda 2 is the worst Zelda, followed by Twilight Princess (all of the dungeon items are literally useless outside of their respective areas save for getting a heart piece each, and Castle Town is lifeless which makes the game shit) and Phantom Hourglass. Spirit Tracks isn't that great either but it's not the worst.

Zelda 2 is fucking hardcore compared to the other games in the series m8.

>What offers more refined and challenging combat?

Zelda 2 introduced actual duelling, which wouldn't be revisited as a concept until ocarina and was improved upon greatly by wind waker.

Sure, it might have been unrefined, but the items and magic in the game were second to the combat.

...

I'm confused here. What am i supposed to hit to defeat the boss?

They fucking ruined the Gyorg fight, which was the second best fight in the game behind Goht.

The bomber's notebook is way too helpful and a lot of things are made easier. The stray fairy rewards were swapped for the first and second dungeons

> MMfags shitting on classic Zelda.

Spotted the cancer.

>Zelda 2
>Worst Zelda
>Followed by TP

Zelda 2 is pretty good and TP, even is not the best, is miles better than SS, ST and PH.

Zelda always had good puzzles, everything else is crap.

I can't count the amount of bosses that have giant fucking eyeballs, why the fuck did they think it's a good idea?

Ironically one of the bosses in 3 is literally a bunch of giant eyeballs.

I'm currently playing through this in the original Japanese freeware version. I've defeated four of the bosses and I'm stuck on the Tower of the Goddess. This is hands down the most intricately designed brainwracker I've played figuring out how the rune symbols map to Japanese was intriguing and I have to wonder what doing this was like in English, since certain aspects must have inevitably been lost in translation.

As much as you know damn well that this was my intention for the most part, I'm also genuinely open to suggestions and am genuinely interested in discovering shit along these lines that I haven't played yet. I'd honestly have no idea if there existed some RPG with something of a similar level of intricacy to MM's interconnected quest complex.

>all these triggered Zelda babies

In game with so many monsters you're going to have a few Cylops or Giant eyeballs. it's just when ALL of them are designed that way because they couldn't think of a good way to make it weak to your weapon is the problem.

Koloktos had the right idea. He's some kind of slime thing on the inside, so the beating red dot heart works without just being a Giant HIT ME sign.

You do realise that MM borrows the item quest system from Ocarina, which itself borrowed that from the oracles games and Links awakening, right?

MM was not the first. It just took it to the nth degree.

But that actually is a good boss fight. The problem with eyeballs is that every boss becomes an OoT Gohma clone
>Wait until the boss shows it's big red eye
>Punch it
>The boss gets staggered, punch it a little more
>Wait again until the boss shows it's big red eye
>Repeat

And the worst offender was that Mike Wasowski cousing in SS

WHAT WERE THEY FUCKING THINKINNNNNNNNG

This is why I have no hope for Zelda as long as Aonuma is in charge. Every boss HAS to have a giant large glowy part you hit 3 times to beat, making them simple and childish as fuck.

It's awful design. Goht was one of the coolest bosses if not the coolest in the Zelda series in the original game. In MM he's fucking retarded and the eye breaks up what used to be a fun fight into a shitty formula.

But you don't have to wait for gohma at all. You can smack it with a deku nut to auto-stun it or shoot it from the ceiling with the slingshot.

I think the boss designs got a little lazy by the time twinnova came in desu, but even then that's quite an accomplishment considering it's the third last boss.

I actually never tried Deku Nuts on Gohma, that's actually great to know, thanks. And now SS bosses are more lame for me.

Ghoma is just an example. Even Gohma used to be versatile and TWW version couldn't even be damaged conventionally in it's first form.

Then you Armogohma which is literally just Shooting it with an extra step added.

Guys, Zelda 2 is also the only Zelda to have a leveling system where you leveled up attack magic and health. Do none of you remember the absolute grindfest that existed to level your stats above 9 once it was time to head to the Grand Palace??

I'm sorry but that game is definitely the worst ZELDA game. Video game wise it's very innovative, but for a Zelda game it's hands-down the worst.

>miles better
That's putting TP too high, it's barely better than SS which is barely better than the DS games

There's something oddly satisfying about killing gohma in one melee burst. Though at the same time illustrates a massive problem with the combat in Ocarina and by extension MM. It's either ridiculously easy or annoyingly tedious.

Enjoy getting a 9-chain on energy ball tennis m8s, coz that thing what we did in 3 and copied directly after (though in a well thought out way) in links awakening sure needs to be in this game too.

Twice.

They had a lot of neat ideas, but they were poorly implemented in order to play with z-targeting at every available opportunity. I think the only one that didn't really need it was the shadow temple boss desu.

Except if you've got the skills you can raid dungeons 1-3 without grinding at all, or even going for the magic except for jump.

Of all the Zelda games that one requires the most dedication and skill in order to complete. That alone makes it stand out from the crowd.

If you need to grind in Zelda 2, you're a casual. After you beat a Palace the game gives a free level and if you are doing it right, you should level up Power first, the game has Magic and HP upgrades so is not necessary to level up Magic or HP first. Probably you don't know but upthrust and downthrust techniques are probably your best friend in Zelda 2, without them, the game actually gets hard.

Git gud. You are part of the reason why OP is euphoric, don't make him right.

You want to know how I know you didn't play the game

The only dungeon I mentioned was the Grand Palace.

The leveling system is what makes it stand out from the crowd dude. That and the fact that you have "lives" and can get more by finding the hidden dolls that are removed from the game once collected.

I remember being a dumb 7 years old kid the first time I beat OoT I didn't know how to properly use Z-Targeting so I beat all bosses without using it, it's not hard except for Barinade and Phantom Ganon

So, you're saying the game actively rewards you for straying from the path into danger, and far more danger than in other Zelda games. K.

Actual person who said that here.

I'm not saying they made it horrible, but all of the changes were completely unnecessary. The only thing the original needed fixed was the resolution fucking with view distance and that was just fine in the GC release.

They make things much easier in places, needlessly more complex in others. In my opinion the updated graphics also detract a lot from the atmosphere, which is extremely important to MM.

You don't need z-targeting for energy ball tennis?

I assumed you did because in 3 and awakening you had to hit the energy ball correctly in order to send it back, and that was based on the weird physics system they made around certain weapons.

I am in no way an MM-fag and actually advocate the inferiority of the original game in many ways and admire, to a certain extent the remake's changes to the notebook and time system. I only used the MM cover image because it was the most striking Zelda image I had on hand.

>You do realise that MM borrows the item quest system from Ocarina

Yes, very much so. I even hold that OoT's trading sequences are themselves better than any stand alone quest in MM, despite the latter game's sidequests being more totally complex. The Gerudo Training grounds is likewise superior to any of MM's pseudo-dungeons.

>which itself borrowed that from the oracles games
You're underage, aren't you?

Faggot spotted. You have no idea how influential the old game boy Zelda games were to the later games of the franchise.

zeldadungeon.net/Zelda08-oracle-of-ages-trading-sequence.php

>You don't need z-targeting for energy ball tennis?

Wut? The game disables targeting in the penultimate battle.

You, do realize when the Oracles were released, right?

What this user said. You had to face him using the camera and just wing it.

M8 I can't remember. It was a long time ago.

>spend too much time trying to make z-targeting useful.
>take it away when you don't need it.

Wut.

No idea what you're talking about in this comment.

I'm assuming Zelda 2 was your first Zelda which is why you love it so much and that's fine, you're free to have your own opinion. Just know that you're a minority in this mindset.

Now that I've checked it, yes. Though my statement regarding awakening still stands. Still think that user, possibly you, are a bit if a faggot btw.

Actually my first was 3.
>you're a minority.

Good taste does tend to be rare, after all.

With Ganondorft is easy, he is in the center of the room and doesn't really move, also, if you spin attack his big attack, a hit is guaranteed. With Phantom Ganon is harder because the room is tiny and he is constantly moving, so your best option without Z-Targeting is standing near a wall and not mash A, it's tedious as you said but it's totally possible.

Z-Targeting is not best implementation of the Lock-On mechanic but I hardly find it deficient for the game unless you're autistic as Egoraptor that you want to explore and fight at the same time, probably a first person Zelda game will allow to do that.

That actually sounds great.

Not to mention that Zelda 1 did that as well.

>every boss becomes an OoT Gohma clone

At least they're not LoZ Gohma clones.

Nha, they need an excuse/boss to justify most items existence but tbqh, a modern Zelda game with the same or less items than the original, using them in new and creative ways would be pretty cool.

Egoraptor is a cuc K, but he argued against z-targeting for the wrong reasons.

Rather than improving combat it degraded it by essentially locking you into a particular style of fighting, especially in duels. You could no longer move as freely, and sometimes the enemies would take advantage of this with fast, sweeping attacks.

On top of that almost every item became dependent on it if you wanted to use them in combat. Save for din's fire. The megaton warhammer was a useful alternative to the master sword for example, but fucking sucked balls if you didn't target with it. Items like deku nuts worked the same way as din' s fire. Either it was pure AoE or selected direct attacks with very little room in between. At most you might get lucky in a crowded room with the giants knife or biggorons sword and take out a few enemies at once, but you aren't likely to be doing that with z-targeting.

Exploration in 2 was a fucking nightmare. Sure you could try and grind for potions, but they weren't guaranteed, and fighting tougher field enemies in order to get them was hard as nails even from the very start where health matters even more than later on when you can use magic to heal yourself.

That death mountain tho.

...

>Nintendo will always cuck Zelda to be childish, coloful trash
>they'll never do another dark themed Zelda ever again thanks to WW

>enemies would take advantage of this with fast, sweeping attacks.
Besides Stalfos, Iron Knuckles and Gerudo Thiefs, I don't really remember enemies that can quickly attack.

I think using items for combat was focused on finding ways to fight enemies efficiently and not really about fighting styles. If you actually want styles in a Zelda game, enemies design and the combat mechanics need to be deeper. WW kinda tried to do that but it was dropped in TP and SS. You're just disliking the game for something that doesn't offer.

> implying WW was dark when 3 basically had an interpretation of hell complete with demons and energy-spewing work monsters.

Let alone links awakening which essentially involved saving a sleeping God from its own nightmares.

>WW is cel-shaded, hence not dark
Are you an edgelord, user?

He is a frog poster, ignore it.

WW borrowed some of its moves from 2, actually. Which was appropriate considering it had the best combat until that point.

It's not just fighting style. It's about having options like with how you can stun gohma with deku nuts or shoot her with the slingshot. I know for a fact certain enemies would fuck you up if you z-targeted at the wrong time tho.

Well, trying to answer your original question (since it was derailed by shit at this point): try Morrowind if you haven't, maybe Dark Souls or the WItcher series.

No, it's goofy and can't stay serious for two seconds and hence not dark

>Put the final pearl into statue
>Raise Tower of the Gods
>LOL WACKY EXPLOSION
>LOL LINK WENT SOARING A MILLION MILES INTO THE AIR
>LOL LINK HIT THE WALL AND WENT BLEKT!
>LOL LOL LOL
>no plz take this seriously

It had the capacity to be dark, but ruined it with characters who seemed simply to not give a shit.

>Serious examples
>made for real gamers.
Stopped reading right there, nice b8 m8.

Watch the original trailer with the hooded girl in the train. The game should've played like that going out all fantasy and magical with the darker tone.

nice.
i think its all the soft colors that makes it so appealing.

>I know for a fact certain enemies would fuck you up if you z-targeted at the wrong time tho.
I'm actually curious, what enemies do that? If you're talking about the enemies found in Water Temple, I always do a setup to kill them or just skip them.

Anyway, having options is one of the main reasons why the enemies design and the combat mechanics need to be deeper, not just adding up OP techniques like TP did, but not having options is not Z-Targeting's fault.

As you said, being limited in options is one of the reasons Zelda games haven't really evolved.

>Morrowind if you haven't, maybe Dark Souls or the WItcher

I've played all three series.

Dark Souls is one of my absolute favorites, as the world design and enemy placement is so creative, and I'm currently going through Bloodborne. One of the few series I'd consider on par with Zelda.

WItcher I've dropped entirely as a series as the base gameplay is dull and repetitive while most quests are delivering things to places marked on your map with any complexity or choice being a subsequent side effect you can't properly account for.

Not a fans of Elder Scrolls and found what I've played of Morrowind to be sloppy.

I also think the Core Tomb Raider games are fantastic and I'm surprised how rarely the creativity of their level design so rarely gets brought up these days.

...

If anything, its Twilight Princess' fault for fucking it up, being downright furfag bait and wasting its nice environments.

>Dull and repetitive
Main reason I dropped dark souls.

It borrows a lot of shit from WW with the practically empty overworld and also wasting its unique take on the Zelda world with the boat simulator.

So, when I started getting bored about halfway through the fire temple that was my brain telling me the game didn't actually have any freedom?

I really wonder why they choose to make WW world that big. If instead of 49 islands we had 25 or less and the distance between them were shorter, with the same content, more people wouldn't say is really that empty

Zelda is a game designed and marketed for pre teens it has colorful colors and self insert androgynous protagonist for girls and boys to experience the baby tier light a torch to open the door puzzles and hit the glowing weakpoint after the boss does its slow moving attack phase as well automatic jumping and kindergarten level rescue the princess story, I can't fathom how any adult could claim it's nothing but kids crap because that's what it is. The popularity is fuelled by nostalgia and a cult fanbase like every other series on earth.

Holy shit, a (YOU)!

I was talking about the combat, if you refer to freedom to choose how to fight, I agree, but if you're talking about something else, explain it.

I like that the fire temple is independent of most of the other dungeons in terms of completion order.

>Video games r serius business guyz.

The same applies for Water, Shadow and Spirit Temple. Sadly, this was a feature that was dropped in MM and later games. I think only LoZ and ALttP have it too.

If this is a serious post, than in an ironic twist, in your attempt to be more mature you sound even less mature.