This is the best RPG ever made

This is the best RPG ever made.

Just try and prove me wrong.

>what is Suikoden 2

In terms of setting and story it is totally derivative and unimaginative.

It's not an RPG.

it's not a great rpg by rpg standards.

wow

I'm going to need you to explain how

It's a great game, but yeah, not an rpg.


Good for a laugh.

At least you're not estelleposting though.

>rogue AI takes over ship, has to be shutdown
Woah slow down friend you're so far ahead of your time!

>System Shock 2 isn't an RPG
The fuck are you smoking my dudes.

The skills and attributes are horribly balanced and skewed heavily in favor of the mundane shoot em up playstyle. It's also linear as fuck and the story is shallow. Even DX:IW is a better game.

Having stats doesn't make a game an RPG.
I still like it, but come on.
IW is also linear as fuck and has a shallow story. SS2 is better since the level design is much more interesting.

>Just try and prove me wrong
Nah

>Fallout 2
>Final Fantasy 6
>Chrono Trigger
>Baulders Gate 2

Pure contrarian opinion. In other words, pretentious shit.

IW is more open than SS2 and suffers far less from the "locked door until story progression" syndrome of SS2.

The design of the actually player statistics wasn't well thought out and I can confirm this as someone who has beaten it about 20 times

The modify skill is useless because weapon modifications give you a very minor advantage and also french epstein devices exist.

The repair skill is useless because it essentially is used to repair weapons back to a state of 1 or 2 at a large nanite cost so maintenance beats it in every way except for being able to repair one or two value reps which can be easily done with repair tools so it suffers the same problem as modify.

The entire exotic branch is basically useless as the exotic weapons have limited ammo and don't do enough damage to justify the massive research and exotic skill points poured in.

By the same token research is useless as it is used to research those exotic weapons and the mandatory skill of 1 which you receive is enough to research every enemy organ in the game to receive damage bonuses against them.

Agility is an annoying skill as low agility slows down the player. This skill should simply not exist and be replaced with speed hypos which don't cause you to run so fast that you actually damage yourself by running into a wall.

Finally you have some of the psi powers which are complete blunders. Just on this note having your buffs disappear as you transition between levels is awful. Remote electron tampering is useless as there's always security stations near security cameras which terminate alerts. Neuro-reflex Dampening is useless because even with recoil the game effectively gives you autoaim. Neural Decontamination is useless as there's not enough radiated areas in the game. Recursive Psionic Amplification is almost useless as it doubles your psi costs. Neural Toxin-blocker is useless as the anti-toxin hypos just remove the toxin instead. On that note as well I think having toxins not ticking down to effective removal over time was a huge development blunder. Continued...

I dunno, it's been a long time since I played IW, but I don't remember it being like that. I remember the Arcology was huge and fun to explore, but the rest of the game was mostly pretty boring and linear. A significant amount of it was in distinct levels too, so it's not any better than SS2 in the locked doors front. In SS2 you finish the deck and then go to the elevator to the next one. In IW you go from the start of the level to the end then go to the next one. Pretty similar.
Anyway, SS2 levels were a lot more fun to explore for me, since there were lots of interesting things hidden around. IW doesn't really have anything good like that, it was mostly just go from the start to the end. Much more boring. Also SS2's character building system was more interesting than IW's, even if it was really unbalanced. So yeah, still thinking SS2 is better.

"locked door" is literally part of what they were going for. It's not supposed to be an open game - it's supposed to be closed, claustrophobic, close and trapped.

Most of the game being narrow hallways with lots of blind corners and few large, open spaces wasn't some accidental thing, y'know. It's always part of the basic design for games like that.

For years I listened to people praise SS2 as the best PC game ever and when I got to finally play it, I found out that it's perceived depth is skin-deep and that it's actually a shallow game that just undermines the player with its poorly designed character building systems to try to create additional replay value, of which there is still very little. Its acclaimed focus on survival gameplay actually means little other than the fact that you get punished for not following the (obvious) routes in a level.

SS1 is far better, DX1 is far better and even IW is far better.

It's not much of an Rpg, unless every game with a level up system like Steamworld Dig or Minecraft are also RPGs.

Also Chrono Trigger, Undertale, KH2 (arguable) and FF9 are better

>in favor of the mundane shoot em up playstyle
only after you get the assault rifle.
Until then it's smash skulls with the pipe wrench

>tfw too casual for eternally respawning enemies

Respawning enemies isn't even a problem. Most of them drop the same amount of ammo it takes to kill them, so you're never up shit creek.

>This is the best RPG ever made.

That's not Gothic or VTMB. It's not an RPG either. Still a great game tho, haven't replayed it in ages, i'll give it a spin after i finish my annual Deus Ex playthrough.

Molecular Transmutation is useless as the item recycler exists. Advanced Cerebro-stimulated Regeneration is literally too powerful, it overheals you completely and just wastes psi points. Instantaneous Quantum Relocation is designed for speedrunning and nothing else. Metacreative Barrier has extremely limited situational use and having to destroy the barrier yourself could result in your brains getting bashed in by a rumbler or wasted ammo.

High level hack also becomes quite useless as the items contained in the hard to hack Rickenbacker crates are loaded with rubbish.

So just from a design perspective there are a lot of pointless skills. I did an entire run using only the very worst skills and it was frustrating. Whereas if you just equip yourself with a wrench, pistol, shotgun, laser pistol and a few points in cyber affinity, maintenance and hack you just steamroll the game with huge pools of ammo, medical hypos out of your ears and colossal amounts of damage

Webm related. I actually punched through SHODAN's shields which have the highest HP of anything in the game and you usually hack her terminals instead.

>tfw too casual for the item health system

Shit's unreasonable at the rate its at.
you couldn't break a gun in real life at the rate you do in SS2

planescape torment and the original fallout are by far the greatest CRPGs

The ending was complete shit that they literally made from leftover scenes at the last minute because the original intended ending got screwed up.

Everything before cyberspace is pretty good though.

To be fair to IW, it did have a few of the interesting hidden things if you troubled yourself to look, like some of the unique weapons.

Though conversely, you also had areas like the start of mako ballistics, where you could stack crates on the dumpsters, get up on the wall, and walk out of the map boundries.

Games that let you do that are made by plebs, and the fact you can do it is how you know - non-plebs expect players to do weird shit and plan ahead.

>Rickenbacker and The Many are good

I feel conflicted about both. They are quite linear and The Many has some very annoying jumps you have to perform in the teeth room. I can't count the number of times I've fallen off the ladders in Nacelle B of Rickenbacker as well. One thing Looking Glass never got quite right was the design of their ladders

Speaking of immersive sims set on a space station, you guys think Prey will be good?

>platforming sections in thief
time to spam quicksaves

Rickenbacker is shit since it's just another spaceship except now super linear and boring. Body of the Many is okay since at least it's something new, even if it is just as linear.

>Also Chrono Trigger, Undertale, KH2 (arguable) and FF9 are better

If SS2 isn't an RPG, neither are these. Literally zero role playing. Also, this is the shittiest taste I've ever seen.

Its a pretty fun game, but everything you mentioned is true. I would also add..

- The marine class is largely pointless. Navy class does what he does, but better with better starting stats and ending up with the same sort of skills as the marine in the end but with a much more efficient path.

- Standard weapons are truly the best weapon skill, with the assault rifle being useful for literally every enemy in the game. Heavy weapons as well are decent, but only because of the grenade launcher. The other two are not worth using at all

- Although melee is fun, certain things make it absurdly strong. Psi powers like Adrenaline overproduction, Psi-agility, combined with the two melee OS upgrades allow you to one shot the two final bosses in the game with the easily acquired psi-blade. The Crystal Shard is never really a requirement when you have this and a wrench handy.

VTMB is an unfinished mess. The only good Gothic game is 2, and that's only with the expac, and after Khorinis it really loses its pace.

BG2 is the best RPG overall. Wizardy 8 has the best RPG system/combat. Age of Decadence has the best roleplaying.

>Its a pretty fun game
Definitely. The sound design and atmosphere are why I keep returning but as someone as said in one of these threads it's like they tried to take the Dark engine designed for stealth and apply it to a sci-fi RPG and the gameplay doesn't work quite as well as expected

It's odd that many years later with Bioshock 1 there were still glaring flaws in the gameplay but as soon as Arkane and 2K Marin came along they made the gameplay good but the atmosphere suffered.

>The only good Gothic game is 2, and that's only with the expac, and after Khorinis it really loses its pace.

Nigger i'll fite you. First Gothic is undoubtedly best in the series, it's atmopshere shits on any game out there. G2 is better without the NotR, while the Jharkendar was cool, the pirate theme really didn't fit that well and it forces you to minmax like raging autist. Risen 1 could be considered part of the series too and it's better than any open world RPG in last 10 years, sans the Witcher.

I could agree with BG2 and AoD tho. Never really got into blobbers so can't judge Wiz8.

ITT: the most obvious trolls of 2016 saying negative things about ss2 that literally nobody would ever say

Wasn't there a rumor a 3rd one was being made?
I heard that like a year and a half ago and haven't seen anything since, so I figured it was just a ruse.

>G2 is better without the NotR
Hahaha, no. It's half a game without it. Completely unplayable trash.
>it forces you to minmax like raging autist
No it doesn't. You can beat every enemy in the game naked with base stats if you really wanted to. That aside, 'min/maxing' is literally just focusing of dex or str. That's literally it.

>Never really got into blobbers so can't judge Wiz8
I doubt you'd make it past character creation anyways.

What's the scariest enemy and why was it midwives?

monkeys are also an acceptable answer though.

Like what for instance?

Cyborg assassins scare me more. When you're walking around the main area of the Ops deck and your feet are clanking away you can't hear them spawn and then you hear a "RANINYA" followed by several shurikens flying past your head

On impossible difficulty they're like a permanently nanoboosted genji

Yes, remake of the original and 3 is being made

Their voices are weirdly creepy, and it's just gibberish

Final Fantasy 7.

Say what you like, hate on it because it's popular but the game was absolutely ground breaking at the time, offered things in gaming that we'd not seen before done to that scale, the mini games were comparable to actual full releases coming out at the same time, the story was arguably the greatest ever seen in gaming, the music was sensational, even though the quality was bad, the atmosphere, the emotion, the setting, the characters, the simplistic yet fantastic development system, the natural challenge of he game, the size and scale of it compared to game of the time.

It was the greatest RPG ever released, and though it may not have aged well you need to look at this as circumstantial, and FF7 was undoubtedly the greatest ever RPG released and arguably the greatest ever game. The game was full of emotion, the music and story was stemmed from a death a developer had experienced at the time of making it, it was a game made around a truly unique moment in a persons life and what we got was the pouring of emotion into this game that we could all enjoy.

Now let's look forward to Square Enix further build its legacy by offering a shit remake, so we can further appreciate how great the original actually was.

>play ss2
>die in 2 hits
>give in and play on easy
>finish and don't touch the game anymore
>see thread on Sup Forums
>repeat

You can't even die in two hits on impossible difficulty even if it's a laser turret

Pipe hybrids can one shot you on impossible if you only have 1 endurance. Just saying.

>shotgun breaks after 2 shots

how did they come up with this shit

The weapon durability system is pretty awfully done. If you're new it seems incredibly unfair, but once you know what you're doing it's pointless since if you're anywhere near efficient you'll never even come close to running out of maintenance tools.
They should have just stuck with ammo as the limiting factor and left it at that.

The only negative things you could actually say about SS2 is the respawning enemies, the guns breaking in two or three shots and the lazy late sections since they were running out of time.

These were criticisms are release, mind you. The devs released info on how to stop weapon decay and enemy respawning in a fucking patch when you were sucking on your MILFs tits.

How's the first one?
I heard it got an enhanced edition but I'm not sure what they changed

There are plenty more valid criticisms. The weapon balance is pretty terrible. The enemy variety isn't great. Half the skills being pointless is bad design too. It's a good game, but let's not pretend it's perfect.

Nigger do you even know what RPG stands for?