How long until this shit gets fixed? It's embarrassing it took this long to start calling Nash by his proper name.
And every time the FGC uses "Boxer", "Claw", or "Dictator" it's cringe.
Either Capcom of Japan or Merrica needs to concede. Probably the japs, since Japan doesn't care about SF anymore. They dubbed the 1994 movie with the US names, why not retcon their own games if they make less money?
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i think we're in too deep at this point. People have been calling them this for 20+ years now.
The Charlie thing is different because they could always just say that was his first and last names, with these guys they have took each others whole names.
Why were the names changed to begin with? Some sort of copyright issues?
>M. Bison is called Vega in Japan
What
M. Bison sounded too much like Mike Tyson who was popular at the time, CAPCOM US chicken out fearing lawsuit
the name went instead to Vega, but you can't give blackman the name Vega to they found another poor character to catch up in this shit and switched his from Balrog's
All I heard over the years was, M. Bison was too close to Mike Tyson and they didn't want to poke the, black boxer character and such.
Yea what said.
Design was too similar to Mike Tyson so Capcom of US pulled a fast one.
Kind of like how they switched Guile and Ken's stage themes because they ripped off the Cheap Trick riff for the song they made for Top Gun.
The irony is that Tyson today would probably sell his likeness rights for like 5 grand and leave it at that.
Vega happens to be an actual spanish surname. Quite common in nobility actually. Its a perfect fit.
Thing is Mike said he did not give a fuck about it but Don King was running his shit and probably would have sued.
So I guess it was the right choice because Don King was stealing money from everyone especially Mike at the time
If they'd just move on from the World Warriors instead of rehashing the same characters/storyline, it wouldn't have to matter.
>So I guess it was the right choice because Don King was stealing money from everyone especially Mike at the time
Or they could've changed "M. Bison" to literally any American-sounding name.
Instead they exasperated things by shuffling several character names and calling it a day.
Well sorry because back in the late 90s when they did move on, japan freaked the fuck out and said fuck that bullshit. Ryu wasn't even originally supposed to be in the game and Makoto was going to take his place and be his younger sister but japan freaked the fuck out something serious. So canned that shit and brought Makoto later with no relation to Ryu
So why did they switch three names instead of just two?
The american order makes a lot more sense.
> younger sister Makoto
lol what, that is literally the first time I've ever heard that Makoto was intended to be related to Ryu. Their styles of karate are different, it's hard sell to say they're related.
Didnt know that about the themes, ill look that up, but pretty interesting if true.
Happy new year
The real confusion here is why the fuck they switched names around rather than just give the boxer an entirely new name.
Vega is a 100 times better name for "claw" than Balrog is. Worth it for that alone.
>The bloodthirsty dictator is called M. Bison
>Makes more sense
Okay.
It really only makes more sense because you are more used to it.
Actually, "Vega" isn't the spanish name, but the star, so it relates to the Dictator. Balrog was Claw's name because Balrog is an ugly monster (from Tolkien's books, I think?), and the name was to show how horrible of a man Claw was behind his beauty.
yea but mike bison for balrog would have been cool
I always thought of the M in M. Bison as a title, like major Bison or something like that.
Master Bison
I found it odd how the arcade marquee only said THREE with alex and ryu on each side.
I know you say japan freaked and maybe rightfully so, as you need a stronger link to previous entries than just " past hero's sister" but that initial idea, to start from a new roster is ballsy as hell and I loved that Capcom.
They really tried to take risks, to some degree. But now they play it so safe, Street Fighter is so stale now
Thats not how localization works on old games. Not at all.
Text in video games text up space. When translating text, the translation needs to take up EXACTLY the same amount of space, and not a single byte more or less.
Shuffling names around allowed the problem to be fixed, while also solving the space issue.
Ever wonder why old translations were so bad and sometimes formatted strange?? This is why
The funny thing is that vega is more spanish than balrog
...
Post heroic Americans who improved on Japanese media and thank them for their contribution to world culture
Wasn't Alex supposed to be the new face that runs the place but Japan freaked out about it.
Funny enough, once people get invested into the series Alex is always a fan favorite.
In a sense, Japan is very conservative around the idea of inheritance of one's legacy. It also shows in other games, mangas and other stories. I mean, everyone knows who Kenshiro from Hokuto no Ken is, but not even 10% of those people know who the other Kenshiro is. A lot of people jumped ship when Naruto ended and they introduced Boruto.
One game I remember this happened in was Toshinden 4. Supposedly the cast was going to be all-new, but they had to include the main character of Toshinden 1/2/3 as an older person.
Another example is Tekken. Paul and Kazuya are well into their 50s. Marshall Law didn't pass the torch to his son, now they're both playable.
Lobby?
That's only for ROMhacks and fan translations. Developers at the time didn't have that trouble at all. What they had trouble with was cartridge space, which was negligible in arcade games, but quite important in console games. IIRC, Breath of Fire 2 had a subpar translation because CAPCOM didn't want to pay bigger cartridges.
Like said above, Vega is related to the star Vega, not the spanish name. Balrog was a play on how Vega was a beautiful man with the heart of a monster (Balrog is a monster in Lord of the Rings).
its not only the japs, even americans shit on fighters where they replace half the cast with new characters
MKX had that problem everyine complained about how the old characters were better
the rule is NEVER make a new game in the series with out a majority of the cast being veterans or people will shit on your game
>but you can't give blackman the name Vega
Am I missing something or is this sarcastic?
Genuine question, either i'm braindead or capcom was.
So what's the real explanation, then?
>move on from the World Warriors
But then chucklefucks will complain that their mains aren't in the game, even if all they do is spam lightning legs and fierce shoryukens
It was faster and easier and nobody would know the difference. Then the internet came along.
>That's only for ROMhacks and fan translations.
I don't think that's entirely true, but I doubt it's much of a concern for the legit releases. (and of course "exactly" would not apply to official).
Isn't most old game space also an issue of English characters being inconsistent sizes v Japanese?
>that initial idea, to start from a new roster is ballsy as hell
Capcom was already making shitloads of money off the Alpha series, plus the Marvel games too. They could afford to do a riskier mainline game.
Now they just invest a shitload of money into playing it safe, so when sales turn out poor they can justify killing the franchise.
I don't get it either.
Yes, a japanese script can take up as little as half, or even one-third of the same english script. That's why a complete translation of BoF2 would require more cartridge space, and CAPCOM didn't want to pay the costs. So they went with a very barebones translation.
It's never been an issue for me because I don't have friends
They didn't think the name fit the character and they're right.
>Isn't most old game space also an issue of English characters being inconsistent sizes v Japanese?
Yeah, Japanese characters are fixed-width and the script ends up very condensed. So the first big hurdle with every ROMhack is finding a way to circumvent this by either hacking in variable-width English characters or extra space/windows to accommodate a coherent TL. Official localizers almost never have the resources to do this and aren't even allowed to make code changes.
Japanese is such an interesting language. I wish I wasn't an old EOP.
They probably didn't give much of a fuck because they didn't consider the franchise would last for this long and their retardation would become such a long lasting issue. They were just localizing one of them silly Japanese games.
Yea the plan originally was supposed be Alex as the face of Street Fighter which is why all the promo art for the original SF3 was him being shown alot. By the time of 3rd strike they gave up because no one was buying into Alex.
He was essentially Roman Reigns
Capcom was only able to make those risks back in the 90s because Street Fighter II was so successful.
The Alex-Hugo rivalry should've been in New Generation. It would've added some level of story depth and we know now that most of Hugo's data was in the game already.
Beside the point. Alpha/Zero was a buffer where they could make the easy cash and try to probe into what fresh things fans wanted with III, EX, even Rival Schools.
Then they stopped making fighters altogether and it became a moot point, returning to World Warrior shit with IV.
>grew up in Japan
>prefer the Japanese names
>to avoid confusing myself and other people, I just use the Claw, Boxer, etc. names
>people give me shit for it
I'm trying to be nice to you so we can understand each other. Stop being an asshole.
SF3 was in a tough place because as broken as Alpha 3 was, japs played it more than any iteration of sf3 at a time and in america the Marvel games were so hugely popular no one even gave 3rd strike a chance.
I was a victim of that shit too when I was younger. Would go to the arcades, 3rd strike would be right there but everyone skipped that shit because of Marvel Vs Capcom 1
>face that runs the place
Ayyyyy
I can honestly say I did not know a 3rd Street Fighter game even existed until about 2005 when that collection came out. I knew about Alpha and all that other stuff but had no idea 3rd strike was a thing.
I want Vega to dominate me.
I want his beauty to intoxicate me.
Third solution
>Bison is the guy with the claws
>Balrog is the dictator
>Vega is the boxer
literally worst case scenario
Forcing us to go with Japan's name for Charlie is bullshit. "Charlie" is better than "Nash".
"Nash" just reminds me of who killed WCW.
I like it because we knew Charlie as the human being, and we know Nash as the monster. It's literally a non-issue since his full name is Charlie Nash though
>Mike Bison
>Perfect name for a dictator
Localized, the M stands for master
M. doesn't have to stand for Mike. When you apply "M. Bison" to a black boxer the naming similarity makes sense but when you do the same for a sorcerer dictator type character it can be more malleable. Major Bison, Master Bison, etc.
>Kind of like how they switched Guile and Ken's stage themes because they ripped off the Cheap Trick riff for the song they made for Top Gun.
Meant to say so source
M.Bison is clearly a spoof of Mike Tyson. They changed it to stop from being sued.
How old are you
This is common knowledge
>japan
Japan was the only place SF3 got even a tiny bit of play. No one in the US even acknowledged the game's existence until the mid 2000s.
who even calls by the american names?
vega is dictator
balrog is claw
bison is boxer
it's a japanese game
>and try to probe into what fresh things fans wanted
Most of the "new" things in Alpha were just ripped form Darkstalkers.
Don King is a fucking scourge in boxing. Never forget that.
The names weren't actual text. They were standalone graphics. And because of how burning ROM chips went back n the day, it wasn't feasible to modify your graphics ROMs one week prior to release date. So all they could do was have the localized programming code swap those graphics around.
>since Japan doesn't care about SF anymore.
What?
Compared to the US, they don't. They've always played other fighting games. It's the US that sticks to SF and nothing else.
why did they add a third character into the mix instead of just name swapping 2 of them?
Doesn't help that SFV is being so horribly received while Guilty Gear is getting nothing but praise
Quicker/easier/cheaper to just swap the announcer audio lines around rather than record new ones.
Mortal Kombat X and soon to be Injustice 2 and Tekken 7
First off, that doesn't mean SF isn't far and away the most popular fighting series in Japland.
Secondly, you can make the claim (if we are rightfully disregarding Smash) that Mortal Kombat is the most popular series outside the spectator esport scene, so it not like we only care about SF. Also, before SFIV I'm pretty Marvel was considered America's game.
I'm guessing he is talking about tournament scenes and not pure sales.
An inane fact from a niche video game in a niche genre of gaming is common knowledge.
sf2 is in the top 5 selling snes games to date dumb fuck
On Sup Forums?
Yes. Claw, Dictator, and Boxer are common knowledge.
That still hasn't translated into any real significant growth in there GG scene, even in Japan. It still fits a solid niche.
The thing holding SF back is the lack of an arcade version, although apparently they are apparently """""working""""" in that. It really would have helped the development of the game if they went with the old way of releasing in arcades first. Maybe the game wouldn't be so boring right now.
>SNES
>Back when playing video games was still dorky.
Where's street fighter now?
not an argument
You never made a case for it being common knowledge. what's there to argue?
Bison is a better name for FV. Vega just sounds gay/effeminate.
...
Shouldn't Balrog be the proper name for M. Bison, and Vega the proper name for Vega in Japan? Vega is a Spanish name, and Balrog is a last boss name.
"Shotokan Karate" being Ryu and Ken's fighting style is also a Capcom USA invention.
when why didn't they just give the name M Bison to the masked guy?
the M could even stand for mask in that case
>No one buying into Alex
>he's Roman Reigns
BASED BIG BOMBER WORKING THE FGC
How would an arcade release have changed people's way of thinking about SFV?
>M stands for Master
Sure, whatever you say
Mike Bison was also in SF2 intro, with Joe, I mean Cody, punching the shit out of him.
youtube.com
They just fucked up.
>E. Honda
>E? Eikichi
>EDMOND
What the fuck
Who is the Bobby Roode of SF?
So you were a zygote when the games came out
>"Nash" just reminds me of who killed WCW.
Take a shower
Hit the weights
Get a clue
karate isn't genetic though?