How do we stop the MMO genre from dying?

How do we stop the MMO genre from dying?

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MMO is a shitty gimmick that does nothing to make a game better.

Well, seeing as that neo-WoW isn't an MMO or an RPG even to the theme park degree classic/TBC/(WotLK) was, continuing the linear progression from where this graph ended would seem like a good start.

how do we stop those that would try to stop it?

I'm still waiting for warcraft 4

gotta wait for 2019/2020 to arrive for the next wave of non-everquestclones

there's not much we can do until someone comes up with a much better game style than RPG that will run on modern hardware.

we would have ACTUAL 500 vs 5000 FPS battles if it wasnt almost impossible to run on current servers.

Let it die so it can't die anymore

it's in the works

Make even one halfway decent MMO, literally ever.

Until then, it will die the slow death it deserves.

Me too user I never played WOW as I know it is non canon.

gloriavictisgame.com/

Make player interaction meaningful, encourage both conflict and cooperation, and give players control of the economy.

My only hope at this point is that Yoshida stops being a hack and does something interesting with FFXIV.

They're the only development team who seems to actually care about their game.

They'll probably keep fucking it up though.

I'm really upset Tera pvp is dead.

You don't.

The problem is that f2p took too much of a stranglehold, and there's so many MMOs out there that most just go for the quick buck and hope they snag a few whales while doing it.

Doesn't help that MMOs are also very costly to make. So you either get a kickstarter made by a bunch of literally whos that will never live up to expectations, or people already doing the same tired thing again and again.

Personally, I think they should fuck off with the sandbox/sandbox-lite shit. Or if you want to include them, make them separate instances (I'd suggest the housing from Wildstar, or the dungeon/adventure creation of CoX/Neverwinter). Having sandbox in-world is always doomed because people suck so fucking hard at making things.

First, wow needs to die. Fast.

Once wow dies in 2017, its current players must be stopped at all costs from ever giving feedback to another mmo developer again.

With wow dead, and its current players securely locked away, developers should not be encouraged to try expanding their niche market to also include females and casuals. They must keep their focus on making a good game, and forget about females and their feelings when it comes to video games.

If those things are accomplished, the MMO genre will be, once again, healthy and prospering. Although effective, this solution would probably be very unrealistic in today's "inclusive" world where everyone MUST get a trophy.

Let it die, then revive it a decade later. Newfags won't know what hit them.

They're probably not going to make it after lol and dota "killed" RTS games

I'm making the jump to FFXIV after doing research on it. I'm going to continue playing ESO, but fuck it just isn't enough with the time off I get from work.

So I'm going into 2017 ESO + FFXIV, but honestly FFXIV is only worth the subscription because it just literally doesn't have competition. WoW is not made for me and my most casual of casual friends can only play it for like a month before they get bored and quit.

Kickstarter MMO's still haven't finished developement, Vanguard Saga of Heroes private server hasn't finished after 4 years, Everquest and Asheron's Call is dead as fuck and never got anything, and everything mainstream is mostly bullshit f2p themeparks.

I took a break from MMORPGs since 2009, but shit it's like nothing was accomplished and I have the itch again.

what game?

that terrain looks barren, probably all the server can handle.

I went in expecting complete trash, but Neverwinter almost got it right honestly. Had it not been for the most cancerous cash shop in the history of MMOs and an obviously very small dev team with the meager mini-expansion a year it actually got a lot of things right.

The P2W gets so strong about 200 hours in and they just do not release enough content. Shame too, I really loved it.

no quick travel or quick anything for that matter
focus on community and force players to cooperate with eachother

>server in charge of rendering terrain

>server not in charge of calculating physics for said terrain
good try retard

Another issue is open-world PvP or a focus on siege shit. If you want to make that your entire game? Go right ahead, but don't try and include some weak-ass PvE elements to try and appeal to people not interested in PvP at all.

I think PvP is a flawed concept for MMOs anyway, or at least MMORPGs. Things reliant on gear and levels and group cohesion always, always leave sour grapes and more people leaving.

Take a look at Archeage. Why bother fishing because pirates are always going to take your shit? Why bother sticking around after a group got a castle when you can't contest for it again for a month? Why build a house in contested zones so you can get raped by a pack of noob-slayers who'll then burn your house down? Friends? Wouldn't it be great if they were online 24/7 so you never had a moment where you're vulnerable or just doing butt-fuck nothing because there's no group safety.

Vanguard Saga of Heroes tried this and was the last AAA project to try it. Will also probably be the last. I know where your coming from user and I too would love this, but video games are too big now and we are the minority.

The new Camelot Unchained thing. Looks like complete shit but it does deliver that big PvP battle thing like its predecessor

Because the one "sandbox" MMO you've ever played handled it poorly makes PvP a flawed concept for all MMOs, right?

They've put a little more work in the visuals this year; still only (public) engine tests though.

where's muh gameplay mechanics

FFXIV is doing pretty well

That does look a lot better

And it's not even like PvP hasn't worked. There was the original GW and there's still EvE, but why the fuck does every MMO that tries to have PvP or, even worse, open world PvP, crash and burn?

Having a look at Wildstar with its open PvP worlds. They shut down because they simply didn't have enough players. ALL of them shut the fuck down. I guess when you have an MMO built around doing quests by yourself for 50 levels it doesn't encourage groups of people who will run into one another and have an 'even' battle. More like a buncha newb hunters looking for a laugh out to just gank some lowbie.

MMO Open World PVP attracts two kinds of players...
>Competitive
These guys just want a challenge and want to fight people.
>Dickbags.
These guys want to shit in your corn flakes and then laugh at you.

These two groups naturally drive away anyone else, and each other.

Archeage isn't a sandbox, it's open world. In fact the only sandbox MMO I can think of was Everquest Landmark and that was awful and a failure.

But anyway I haven't seen PvP work in an MMO for over a decade, and certainly not when it's tacked on to an obvious PvE-central game. To be honest I don't see much appeal to it, anyway. There are far better game genres out there that foster PvP gameplay on an even playing field.

You forgot the 3rd largest group, found namely in games like Eve Online:
>enjoy the added risk and don't think pvp is some retarded anti-""""carebear"""" mechanic intended for only """"griefers""""

Design it a bit like Log Horizon or Overlord's:

>Here's a world with monsters/enemies
>You can design your own NPCs and bases/castles/homes/etc
>Important people are just players that have actually done the harder content/played for a long time
>Economy in the hands of the players
>No background wars or invasions or anything, there is a world with monsters and hostiles in it, as well as friendlies and treasure: make your character and have fun
>Have stats that determine what you can do, rather than "classes" with "classes/archetypes" being like titles earned when certain conditions are met that grant you access to extra abilities/benefits/titles

>All the new MMOs are almost entirely PvP or almost entirely PvE and all are Sandbox

Just give a Vanilla/BC WoW-like MMO that doesn't destroy itself trying to be a WoW killer

MMOs are just shitty games with a glorified chat room.

And instead of focusing on making the glorified chat room the best part of the game, they decided to turn their base shitty game into a mediocre game with a shitty chat room experience.

>$30
>$60

>microtransactions

The prefix "micro" is in there for a reason.

Problem with this kind of MMO is that people now don't want an MMO. They want a single player game with Raid content.

Look at WoW and FF14. YOu basically only party up ever to do dungeons/raid. The rest of the time you're alone farming in a chat room.

In older days players wanted to interact. Now we have a generation of shut-ins, neets, people with "social anxiety" because they can't bring themselves to say a fucking "hello" to anyone. These people have grown up immersed in the video games, and that is literally all they know.

People nowadays don't have that much time to grind mmorpgs and raid every week, They tried to casualize the games but it isn't even working. The original generation that played wow in the launch~burning crusade is old enough to have family responsibilities now and the newer generations have an attention span of 10 minutes, so they can't balance casual and hardcore gameplay.

It sucks but the mmorpg era is gone.

That which is falling, deserves to be pushed.

-Nietzsche

>all my favorite mmos are dead
>mmos like FF and WoW have people crying "dead game" because they lost 10% of their playerbase

>glorified chatroom

Man, I used to play D&D with some buddies in an actual glorified chatroom. It just had a built-in dice roll command, shit was so cash.

ArcheAge could have been a neat little game if not for some nasty flaws.
>housing shortage that cucked a lot of players out of a critical portion of the game
>meaningless conquest system on a meaningless continent
>endless vertical korean grind
>constantly introducing new items that cut out craftsmen from their trade
>megajew game mechanics XL Games originally introduced that everyone blamed Trion for (though they're still at fault for not screening most of the shit like way-too-early Hasla weapons)
But boy were those first two months fun.

user I guarantee you that older MMOs were fine for shutins as well. Asheron's Call, Everquest, Ultima Online, Ragnarok Online - I was fine playing solo 95% of the time, maybe once in a blue moon grouping up to do something.

So I have no idea what the fuck you think older games did. If anything games these days force you to be more social than ever.

I think that's a very black-and-white mindset. Look at what said.

I'm an EVE player; I'm not a carebear, but I'm also not a griefer. I fucking love PvP. I loved in WoW, I love it right now in EVE, and I loved it in Runescape. As a kid, I was backstabbed by a friend in Runescape deep in the wilderness. I fucking laughed at it. In WoW, I had a level 70 hunter try and chase me down on my level 55 rogue in Searing Gorge for 3 fucking hours. I had a fucking blast running from him and playing cat-and-mouse. I tricked that motherfucker into jumping off a ledge after me and shadowstepping to him at the last second so he fell and I was free to run off and stealth. In EVE, I hunt innocent explorers in w-space and was actually podded just earlier today and lost 65 mil worth of implants. I fucking laughed at it, and I was AFK when it happened.

I love the risk of PvP, I love the thrill, and I love the interaction with other players. Winner, loser, its all !FUN! to me, because it's a game, and the experience is why I'm playing it in the first place; not because of some meaningless crap like an honor kill or a green bar on my killboard. Because of those games I have hilarious stories to tell as both the winner AND the loser, and I love all of it.

Read It's not the new players that are necessarily the problem. It's older players that grew up and can only play a couple hours a week so everything needed to be streamlined for them.

It seems like there's a shit ton of teenagers on Nostalrius on 07scape because they have the time to grind

Unfortunately, EvE-player, any time an MMO dev tries to include some open world PvP they don't get enough people like you to keep playing and sticking around. My best bet is you just keep playing EvE and don't bother playing anything else, so that niche is already filled.

Which is a pity, as I would love to play an MMO like that in Overlord/Log Horizon where you're not so much making a character to play in that world, as you are instead making a character and becoming part of that world.

WoW makes me feel like I'm there to turn the page in someone else's story Doesn't help that all the questgivers and 'helpers' have hundreds of millions of HP and mana , and group content feels like gottagofast.

No MMO has ever tried to attract an Eve player.
It's always something tied to Everquest in its permanence of items and total lack of player economy.

When they released the cash shop item that crashed the thunderstruck tree market in 3 hours, I was fucking done.

Thanks for the 'player controlled economy' assholes!

>Create an original world.
>Do away with levels and classes.
>Make like 100 skills.
>Skills go up by use, not when you hit some arbitrary EXP amount.
>Master/Apprentice System: Players with a higher skill rating can take on apprentices who gain boosted skill gains when they perform the skill within the presence of their Master.
>Masters gain additional skill success rate for being within proximity of their apprentices.
>Vast crafting system that allows players to build everything from the ground up.
>System suppliments players with NPCs based on skill levels to fill in some of the gaps.

b-but darkfall

What you're really saying:
>A game where you can't do anything without first grinding for literally days.

Fair enough. Hard to have a player economy when every MMO relies on a cash shop.

I enjoy world PvP as long as none of the following conditions are met:

>It's a high level player ganking a low level player
>It's multiple players at the same level or higher ganking smaller numbers of players
>It's a graveyard camping episode
>It's a higher geared/levelled/bigger groups of character(s) camping the one spot for hours unending

Levels are an antiquated concept desu lad

No one plays MORPGs. There isn't a market for it anymore. Most of the player base grew out of them and current generation gamers prefer MOBAs.

I want a game that inherently encourages players to interact with each other instead of isolating them in their own littler instances.

I don't know what they thought older mmos were like either.

My experience in MMOs didn't start with EVE. In fact, it's fairly recent. I played Runescape back in 2003-2005, WoW in 2006-2011 or so. My adventure in EVE started in ALMOST 2014. You are right though, no MMO ever tries to attract players like me. I played Guild Wars 2 thinking I'd have a PvP adventure, that was a bust. I played Rift, that was just complete trash. WoW's world is entirely fucking dead so that's a no-go. FFXIV is mehh, didn't keep my attention until I got to the PVP levels.

So yeah I'm probably going to stick with EVE for some time, at least until a dev decides that they want to make a game where the players make their own adventures with PvP involved. Not that that's bad for me though, I'm loving EVE.

Stop that pay to win bullshit
Quit that monthly fee crap
Find out a way in which endgame doesn't devolve into pvp dick measuring contests
Force cooperation between players
Increase the importance of crafters and the variety of them
Increase the importance of other classes like debuffers and such
Make magic based dungeons to level up with magic based dps, perhaps of different elements, and physical based to increase the importance of every different class in each instance.
Nerf those fucking tanks and knights. I'm seriously sick of those fucking knights and paladins running the whole shit and basically having the whole game designed for them.

>>It's a high level player ganking a low level player
That's part of the risk of open world.
>>It's multiple players at the same level or higher ganking smaller numbers of players.
That's the best strategy for surviving in open world.
>>It's a graveyard camping episode
This is lame shit, I agree with you.
>>It's a higher geared/levelled/bigger groups of character(s) camping the one spot for hours unending
They're punishing stupid players.

Honestly, you sound like you'd enjoy Arena settings more. You want an even fight at all times.

>OKAY SO IT'S OPEN WORLD WITH NO NPCS AND NO LEVELS AND EVERY PLAYER IS DOING SOMETHING AND MOBS TAKE X10 THE AMOUNT OF TIME THEY SHOULD TAKE TO KILL SO YOU NEED A RAID GROUP TO COMPLETE A LEVEL 1 QUEST

mmos are a dead genre

"no one" (aside from whatever millions play the following games) has any interest in everquest clones like WoW, SWTOR, GW2 to an extent, TESO, WildStar
that's a very specific set of games, each with ties to "endgame PVE raiding with weekly resets and typical raid loot found in a MMORPG with raids"
that doesn't mean MMORPGs are dead, it means endgame PVE raiding with weekly resets and typical raid loot found in a MMORPG with raids games are dead

I would like more sci-fi games instead of 99% of MMORPGs following the same tired old fantasy tropes.

>sci fi game
>melee is an archtype

>Force cooperation between players

This is bad.

Rewarding cooperation is a better idea. Don't lock players out of soloing, but make the experience better for players who work together. Players should -want- to cooperate, if you have to force them then you're doing something wrong.

>Increase the importance of crafters and the variety of them
I'd love it.
>Increase the importance of other classes like debuffers and such
That would be cool too!
>Make magic based dungeons to level up with magic based dps, perhaps of different elements, and physical based to increase the importance of every different class in each instance.
Lots of MMOs already do this. The fact is most of these games just allow Tanks to mitigate all forms of damage instead of only magic or only physical.

...

Games like Overlord/Log Horizon have never existed, I don't think. That's kinda the problem I have with these 'MMO' anime - they don't act at all like any MMORPG that has ever existed. At least to the level where you're making NPCs, items, having outrageous depth to item/spell effects and skills.

It's an ideal that no game has ever been able to accomplish. Hell even Asheron's Call where I was totally stoked to craft a really high level weapon with a super powerful enchantment, and even -sign it- with an engraving/short story, that was only a single similarity. There weren't combo-skills, or epic item creation, or spell-crafting, or items that summoned monsters.

Really, it's asking for too much, I think.

I do.
I much prefer arenas and feel incredibly stupid for making most of my maxlevel characters on a PvP server.

that's one.

i'm also not allowed to discuss it here because Sup Forums is paranoid about something something shills kickstarter scam run with the money to moexico

It's funny how people don't realize that it is quite impossible for an open world to be entirely balanced at all times unless everyone's hands are held and forced to play nice.

>Sci-Fi Game.
>Not just having your science wizards blocking everything with their beams swords and defelctor shields.

Step it up, Senpai.

Shifting the plot of WoW from you being a cog in a much bigger machine to you being casually granted the title of commander was one of the stupidest things they ever did.


Behind, 'how can we completely remove the point to rolling on small servers?' and, 'how do we make people who don't like raiding or don't have the time to raid, raid?' and 'how can we force people to play with each other?'
MMORPG's tend to work best when each server is a self contained city, the game never speaks for the player, and there's an implicit expectation that you be social. Even an antisocial recluse like me was raiding in Classic. Today server communities are virtually dead.

>People nowadays don't have that much time to grind mmorpgs and raid every week
I think part of the reason is that nobody really WANTS to grind.

People almost wanted to back then because it was a fucking adventure simply killing things over and over, leveling up, then going up against new challenging opponents. All of this was true because we had no experience in mmos.

Now all of us have so much experience in rpg mmo's that the grind is almost as bad as dying a painful death because we've seen it a million times already.

do you really want current year blizzard to develop warcraft 4

Star Citizen has taken over the throne of NEVER-EVER!

more in-game purchases.

>Even an antisocial recluse like me was raiding in Classic.
>tfw now you have to be a socialite to get dedicated 5 man mythic+ groups or 10 man mythic raids or whatever the fuck it is now
it's awful

Yes, so the franchise can go through its death throws.

you need someone to have enough money and patience to develop a good game

Oh you're right. In fact i was the most antisocial sniper in ragnarok online. I made an ASPD build and basically hunted for stuff, never was useful for anything else, but the grind was fun.

>Lots of MMOs already do this.
Do they? I'd like to see one mage tank very distinct from a physical tank like the average paladin. I'd love to see a dungeon in which the whole party is composed of mages, and another one where everyone's an archer, stuff like that.

I know it's asking too much really, but I was thinking along the lines of the idealistic: "In a perfect MMO game, what would I love to play?"

But even just more focus on "You're a part of this world" and not "Play through our story" would be nice.
Having more focus on integrating the player's character with the world would be nice.

that's fucked up
what did warcraft do to you

So you want dungeons that lock out content from classes because "Well, I didn't roll a Tank-Mage."

Is Asheron's Call worth picking up by the by?

Are the servers still up?

It's not Pay2win, is it?

Make it cheaper.

ok so here's my theory on mmos:

basically the original core mmo audience was extrovert nerds, people who wanted to be social but were still too weird to be normies. in pretty much any mmo nostalgia thread almost all of the positive memories are in a social context. doing stuff with your guild, being e-famous for something, etc. mmos are in decline because a large portion of that core audience was sucked away by social media. the only ones that are left are the hardcore addicts and the people who are too obnoxious even for online human interaction. there's no solution to "fix" mmos because the problem is with the playerbase, and the game was never good to begin with.

>Mundane scenery

Meh, I see enough of it in real life. I prefer more fantastic colorful things for that extra bit of escapism.

sure, if you find a private server lol
asheronscall.com/en/forums/showthread.php?73423-Asheron-s-Call

I want dungeons in which those classes are more important than other classes, because in every game there ends up being classes that will have the hardest time leveling because they're so shit, they may be support but nobody really uses them. I think making specialized dungeons could be great. What do you mean by locking out content?

nah, it's because the games are shit
hell look at TESO--its siege mechanics didn't even compare to fucking Guild Wars 2

fuckin' give me my next RvR MMO already so I can have fun like I did with DAOC

Servers shut down over a year ago. And it remained a pay-to-play game until the end.

It was pretty good for the time. Solo friendly, lots of random and weird items and hidden quests, tons of rare monsters and a bit of a crafting system.

Not perfect by any means and mages were grossly overpowered, but I have fond memories.

>Having more focus on integrating the player's character with the world would be nice.
Doing this means massive amounts of grinding.

Funny, in contrast I'm kinda tired of seeing super colorful fantastical things because the fantasy genre is fucking rife with glowy crystal shit and floating cities.

Whilst I agree with what you're saying, I wouldn't mind the granting of honour/prestige/power/etc if you weren't still treated like the cog in the machine when it came to gameplay.

Yeah, you're the "Commander"/"Archmage"/etc, go pick through this poo for me.
Pick this up for me.
Find this for me.
I need your help with this.
Listen to me.
Tell this person [X] for me.
Respect me, peasant.
Etc

You're treatied as a cog, while the dialog simply substitutes "Mage"/"Grunt"/etc for "Commander".