Why does Sup Forums think quest markers are a bad idea?

If you HONESTLY believe that having to talk to an entire town of NPCs just to find out where to go next on a quest is a good game design then go back to the 90s and stay there.
It is not FUN to have to speak to everyone in the game every single time you pick up a quest.

Agreed
I don't want to spend forever talking to boring npcs talking about whatever the fuck
Games shouldn't be a real life simulator

Quest markers aren't what's bad, it's the fact that games are being designed around them. Try playing Skyrim without quest markers, and the environment is so goddamn samey and copypaste that you'd never find where to go. Comparatively, in Morrowind/older RPGs the questgiver would give detailed instructions on where to go and the environments would be differentiated enough that you could logically find your way there without markers.

Level design has regressed to the point that quest markers are required. And that's a problem.

Reddit is down the hall and to the left.

You're not hardcore unless you live hardcore

Game worlds generally aren't unique and detailed enough for specific directions to be useful, which is why quest markers are direly needed.

They don't have to be giant arrows, or glowing dots and can certainly be implemented in a more immersive way, but I generally don't feel like figuring out where the fuck I was going after picking a game up after I dropped it a week or more ago.

It's the reason I quit Divinity: OS and the reason I won't be picking up the sequel.

I talked to every god damn NPC before being told "get to the old house" and no one fucking told me where the fuck it was and I couldn't find it after 2 hours of exploring. I looked it up eventually but didn't even feel like playing anymore after trudging through the last several hours.
If you have to look up where to go because you want to try and be "old school" then you need to not make games.

It just makes people more stupid and lazy.

Why not just remove any kind of loss condition?
Game Overs are NEVER fun and only serve to waste time.

If you don't have the patience to read a journal or ask around for a certain npcs or locations whereabouts, then maybe you should not be playing RPG's.

>telling you where to go is the equivalent of removing game overs

Kill yourself.

We'll hold on a minute fun poster, there is an exact reasons why the developers designed it the way it was. Fucking dumb ass.

>2017
>reading is a form of gameplay in video games

Why not read a fucking book if you want to read? Nobody buys games to read a fucking novel, they buy them to have fun and reading a books worth of text just to find out the next step isn't FUN

>I want all semblance of critical thought to be replaced with a game of connect the dots that leave me staring at the quest marker and not the actual world I'm """exploring"""(TM)

G A S
Y O U R S E L V E S

Some of us actually have lives and don't feel like spending 15 minutes just to figure out some stupid bullshit about a make-believe character.

right. you shouldnt be playing RPGs

...

Retards like you are responsible for the quest markers in DOS 2. Just because you ADHD kids can't stop 10 seconds to read the rest of the sentence or explore the map. More like: "Go to the old house in the north west close to the old lighthouse."

>WHERE DO I HAVE TO GO
>THERES NO MARKER
>HOLD MY HAND

>the pleb

i dont have time for talking and shit i just wanna kill the baddies!!! i love it when the game tells me what to do!!

>the patrician

Whenever I arrive in a new location, I take the time to familiarize myself with my surroundings. It's the little details that speak most about games, and often the most enjoyable parts of my play-experience arise during these exploratory excursions. When it is time to continue on my quest, I often find it a tad patronizing when the game forces its objective onto my screen, as though it needed to pull me aside and remind me that I am playing a game with a set objective. Any of my friends would agree: there is no wonder, no excitement in following the game's prescribed list of errands. The most worthwhile games are those you make for yourself.

RPG's were born from text and dialogue based adventures with dice rolls and stats. If you're too dumb to realize how removing several of these important factors makes an RPG worse, then i'm not sure how i can help you.

Video games should evolve and change over time but adding something that removes the sense of immersion is just stupid.

I agree with you but holy fuck, you are an autist.

>why would talking to people in an rpg be a good thing???

I think they can be detrimental to the overall experience, yes. After awhile it makes the game feel like "follow the magic arrow" instead of you exploring a world. It wouldn't be an issue at all for me in Skyrim if the Journal system wasn't so beyond trash. The Journal system is designed around Quest Markers being on all the time.

People with jobs and lives shouldn't play RPGs?
If devs spent all their time and effort trying to please some basement dwelling autists they will go broke.

So tough break kiddo you aren't the audience devs are looking for.

I've played text adventures and games like Deja Vu, so take it from me; not having quest markers for the sake of some nebulous "casualization" reason is fucking stupid, just like saying QTE's are bad "just because". The reason they exist is to keep the player from getting lost, and to keep the player from being left to the whim of the designers.

There's also the option to turn off quest markers, and the fact that for a lot of quests in Skyrim, there are no quest markers and it forces you to do things yourself.

If I have a map in a game, I should be able to simulate "marking it".

Why are you playing a game about a make-believe character and their stupid bullshit if you're too stupid to comprehend words in a dialogue box?

Did I say that, perma-virgin?

Yes. It doesn't take 15 minutes to figure out where to go in a quest where a key NPC tells you where to go. You're a moron, and you will always be a moron.

>I dont have time for mechanics that define a genre, but they should take them out to accommodate me

I think there needs to be some sort of compromise to reach a middle ground. A type of game that requires alot of hours to get the most out of probably shouldn't be played by people who will complain about not having enough time to play it because they are so busy. I mean, just look at the puzzle quality of TES, Oblivion did a lot of things wrong but it's puzzles were in a good spot of not being too overly complex to drive away people but not so easy that they are insulting. Where in the case of Skyrim the puzzles are so easy they may as well be called "speed bumps" at best because the answer is literally shoved in your face when it comes to the totem puzzles.

The Picture- and Childens books you read aren't text adventures.

You were able to set on markings on your map in DOS you probably didn't notice in your 50 seconds attention span.

>if you don't need your hand to be held you don't have a job or a life

Lmao, says the dipshit crying about quest markers, grow up you fucking kid.

You literally have a journal which tells you who to talk to and how to get to them. I know reading can be intimidating, but you'll get the hang of it, champ.

I'm sorry moron, but did you confuse your post for mine? Because I'm pretty sure someone resorting to "the devs need to spoonfeed me everything because I actually have a life and can't comprehend simple directions" definitely sounds like crying to me. Wouldn't you agree, moron?

>Picture- and Childens books you read aren't text adventures

Nice little quip there marvel-cuck, although it was lacking severely in the "wit" department. You got the "snarky little faggy bitch ass-boi" tone down though, to a T.

But yea, I guess Stationfall and Moonmist are "childrens books" lol, you fucking tool.

SPBP.

>waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh
>they added a minute feature that I don't like so I can't pretend I'm smarter than I really am

Like, I said, grow up, get a girlfriend (on second thought, don't, I don't feel like accidentally running over your retard-kid if by some chance you actually manage to get a girl pregnant in the future).

hah, holy fuck

If you think that someone being able to comprehend basic sentences in their native language is "pretending to be smarter" then I have some very bad news for you, moron.

everyone needs to stop replying to the idiot, he's baiting or legitimately has some form of autism

Define it for you maybe.

Quick question
How many companies have gone out of business making games you feel are better?

It is time to consider the possibility you have shit taste in games user.

Nice try shitter, maybe you should go back to your handicap workshop if you couldn't even force yourself through a minute of instructions and derive a general position you have to search for a quest.

But what do I expect? You couldn't even figure out hot to mark your own map or use the questlog in DOS. Get some medication, you have serious troubles if you can't come up to a solution to a given problem without a tardward to assist you.

>couldn't even comprehend my post

Lmao, definition of a moron, ya doofus.

Threads like these are a stark reminder of why the gaming industry has gone to shit.

Why do you project so hard? No one was implying any of that.

People complaining about quest markers are literally man children. Who gets angry over something that gives you more time to do other stuff in a game? Seriously.

You might as well just stop now, moron. You don't even know what your own posts are about. You claimed I was trying to act smarter than I actually am because of my ability to comprehend basic sentences and that I felt intellectually threatened because of hand holding devices such as quest markers. So yeah, moron, I've got some bad news for you.

Turning off quest markers doesn't help though, specially in Skyrim which isn't designed to work without them.

If you disable quest markers in Skyrim there's literally no way to know where to go, NPCs don't tell you where to go, they just say "go to this cave" but you don't know where the cave is because the game chooses a random one thanks to the power of radiant questing.

>I've got some bad news for you
>moron
>comprehend basic sentences

Lots of repetition, you must be one autistic moron, lmao

nice nostalgia googles, morrowind enviroment looks the fucking same too. Both games are shit RPGs. At least one of them doesnt waste your time to find a quest.

go play COD, faggot. its profitable, so it obviously has great gameplay, and all the RPG mechanics that you enjoy

Do people actually have a problem with
"Here let me show you on your map." ?

Because that is a silly thing to have a problem with.

This is comedic levels of outrage. You HAVE to be trolling. There's no way someone got triggered this badly from a shitpost.

I don't think they're inherently bad. They're at their worst when devs use them as a crutch or the only way of communicating an objective, like in

This.

Literally alls I did in Morrowind was skim through every single dialogue option for every NPC I came across and then just look at the cliff-notes version in my journal, and if it didn't leave any notes, I just skipped it.

I have a GF, I'm in college, and I'm in between jobs, I don't have time to fuck around reading paragraph after paragraph. If I wanted that, I'd read a fucking book, which would be a lot better written as well.

The main reason quest markers are usually bad is because it creates linear gameplay in an open world experience.
Say there's Point A, Point B, and Point C
>I get Quest at A to go to B.
>There's also a hidden dungeon with cool secret lore related stuff at C.
>C is no where near the line between A and B.
>Once I'm done with B, I will be prompted at B with a Quest that takes me right back to A.

Because the way we as humans, behave in these kinds of situations, we're very unlikely to ever move to Point C unless something prompts us to go there. Easter Eggs aren't a thing anymore. Hidden Dungeons aren't a thing any more. They're now collectibles that are brightly flagged on your map for you to go to and then look around to find. Open world games no longer have a sense of exploration because you're constantly fed a list of "Go Here for Loot and EXP", and as creatures that crave seeing our numbers go up, are going to do that.

You seem to enjoy tedium in your games.
I am guessing you are the type that likes needing to eat and sleep in games as well.

If so I have found the problem.
You have shitty taste in games.

the main problem is you have to look at your compass/minimap to go in the right direction instead of paying attention to your surroundings and exploring

It depends on the game. Quest markers ruin immersion and if the world is small enough to find or detailed enough to locate the objective, they're not necessary.

Both of you are morons. Morrowind and Skyrim both have distinct areas of the map that only an absolute retard couldn't differentiate.

That's not the problem, it's "follow this big glowing arrow on a constantly-visible compass". Far Cry 2 did it right, since you actually had a physical map that got marked with locations, and you then had to pull it out to read if you wanted direction. Then you've got Skyrim, where you've got an arrow on your HUD pointing the direction and another marker on the thing in question, that's the problem.

Stick to Wikis and Youtube for RPGs user, you're really cheating yourself on the whole experience.

why even play the game, idiot? play something suited to your tastes and timeframe, and dont shit up a genre that other people enjoy as is

Actually I hear animals learn best through repetition. I figured I might as well accommodate you as well since it would be awfully slow if you took 15 minutes to reply each time.

>u mad

>"go to the cave on the snowy mountain, itll be right between a tree and a big rock"

>Actually I hear animals learn best through repetition

That must be why you're such a raging homosexual, your mother must've choked on cock constantly when she was pregnant.

AND THE LEGEND

OF THE RENT

WAS WAY HARDCOORRREEE

>triggered manchildren

If you feel legit outrage over quest markers, kill yourselves. You have nothing to add to humanity in any shape or form.

Check the location when given the quest then switch to a different quest.

Not being sarcastic but that is the solution that mirrors Far Cry 2

What is it with you retards wanting a genre to be dumbed down for you even though its not aimed at you to begin with? RPGs are meant to immersive, lengthy experiences. You not having time is your own problem, not an issue with the genre.

>if you have a different opinion you must be outraged

I thought I hated quest markers until I played Divinity: Original Sin. Then I realized I actually love quest markers.

Calm down there Millennial., people can have opinions different from yours.

There's a special satisfaction in figuring something out for yourself. It doesn't have to mean solving some obscure puzzle, it can be something as simple as following spoken directions.

If there's no quest marker, but the game dev still wants to give the player a good idea of where to go, then solid verbal/written directions should still clearly indicate what to do. If you have to wander around forever because the directions were extremely vague or even incorrect, that's just a poor job on behalf of the developer.

Good example:
>"Exit town through the west gate and then head north along the road. Turn left at the first fork, and you'll see the goblin's hut at the base of a giant oak tree near the tallest mountain."

Bad example:
>"Take the road out of town and head toward the mountains until you see a large tree, where you'll find the goblin's hut."
>there are two possible exits from town
>outside each exit are several vaguely large rocky structures, any of which could be 'the' mountains

If you're not a fan of words, then "I'll mark it on your map" is also an acceptable solution if the map doesn't actually show you where YOU are in real-time so you still have to keep track of your own location.

Virgin, your mom, and faggot are your best insults, moron? Are you sure your alleged lack of time is because you "actually have a life" and not that your winter break ends in two days?

I think this sums up my feelings completely. RPGS are a time investment, not a quick cash in to say you beat it, and by not immersing yourself in the game you really are cheating yourself.

Why? Because I prefer to explore and actually play?

If I play an RPG like Morrowind, I play it for the world, not the story.

If I play an RPG like the Witcher, I play it for the characters and story, where they will actually be worth my time and attention.

I think it deserves to be "shitted up" if the life-less losers playing it are people like you, jesus, fuck off.

Bubba hate to break it to you but RPGs haven't been aimed at you as the target audience since the 90s.

There is no profit with the Old School RPG crowd.
Just ask Obsidian.

Its not just about satisfaction either, it increases feeling of agency which is very important for immersion

Thank goodness there's a shit load of old school RPGS that I can play through, and a few devs are still make Wizardry-Likes still.
I don't care if it seems like bullshit, I think it's a challenge to deal with monsters that drain levels and to make me map out the dungeon myself.
Etrian Odyssey is amazing because of it.

>I play Morrowind for the world but I don't want to actually explore and become immersed in the world because that takes too much time
RPGs are not for you.

>millennial

Oh, so you were born before 1982?

What is it with video-kiddies pretending like RPG video games even measure up to the likes of Tabletop RPG's, which is what they were originally based on?

RPG's aren't an investment. Tabletop RPG's are, where you actually have full control of your character, what he does, and his role in the world.

>quest marker in RPG
>focus only on minimap and pointer
>ignore the world
Fucking reddit

PoE was very profitable for them though retard. Also RPGs are still massive timesinks, they are just far dumber

Hey moron, you forgot to add moron to the end of your post, moron.

>What is it with video-kiddies pretending like RPG video games even measure up to the likes of Tabletop RPG's, which is what they were originally based on?
Not one post you quoted implied anything like that dummy

Oh good boy you're such a good boy catching onto new words so quick. Who's a good little moron? You are, yes you are, moron.

It's pretty much common knowledge, dummy.

It isnt about the genre, its about Morrowind. If you feel that your time is well invested in a game that 90% of NPC just give the same data, a book of text without any valuable information about the quest or even the world, good for you.

Just a quick question, more of a shot in the dark, but do your parents say they're disappointed in you and say you're a failure?

Your reading comprehension is pretty bad for someone who likes tabletop rpgs.

What is? No one's saying video game RPG's are as much of a time investment as pnp ones. Not in this thread or anywhere else.

Yea, because being dictated to involves a lot of reading, lmao, dummy

Quite the opposite actually. Is this a cry for help?

What are you going to do about it big boy? Games will continue to change with your permission. The truth hearts buddy. Maybe things will change once you take matters into your own hand eh?

Oh, lmao, they say that you're very smart, and you need to apply yourself, and you're such a special wonderful child?

Okay, now I get it.

Are we grading on a curve?
Profitable by Obsidian standards is not that impressive.

There is a reason they worked on a shady MMO and WoT ripoff.
There is a reason PoE was kickstarted.

Obsidian is one more bad game from joining Troika and BIS on the Mt Rushmore of failed RPG studios.

Sure, both games have noticeable different areas. In Morrowind you can find places like swamp with ruins number 1, or swamp with ruins number 2 (which is slightly darker).

Skyrim has recognizables places like city in a snowy mountain number 1, or city in a blizzard (which is in a mountain too).

Don't give him any ideas, user.

Sup Forums is /r9k/ only far more explosive and insecure

You're getting pretty specific here, moron. Almost as if it's a reflection, or dare I say projection, of your own experiences. I know I'd be awfully upset if my child had severely impaired reading comprehension, so I can see where this might be coming from. Poor poor moron.