What does Sup Forums think?

What does Sup Forums think?

Archdemon actually fits Mid Tier, not shit.

Wouldn't Ganondorf be in Mid Tier?

13 y/o edge Lord tier: original poster

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Posting best vidya villain

You realize we can have the same thread again, right?

Who's on the top?

Is Guts really the good guy?
He's killed as many people as Caim, including children, and his motivations have never been more than selfish.

Griffith, the savior of the world

Jecht isn't even a villain

B-but muh rapist!

Guts has always been the bad guy. Griffith was a total bro and offered Guts the world, but because Guts got fucked in the ass by a nigger he's all, "Nah, dude, I permanently have a stick up my ass, so even though we've all worked hard and saved each others' lives and gone from total losers to heroes of the realm you can take this gift you're offering me and blow it out your ass like I had to do with nigger cum." Guts is a total jerk and I can't wait to kill him.

According to that list the Archdemon belongs in mid tier, not shit.

>Implying a villain thats just naturally evil is a bad villain.
>Implying Griffith isn't a jealous little bitchboy who turned to demons to give him power he'd never hope to have otherwise
>Because muh loneliness.

Chumps, the lot of you people.

1. not vidya
2. bait

Fuck off Griffith

>He can't even name 5 reasons why.

It depends entirely on how they're written. Vergil is a 10/10 villain because he wanted power for power's sake. Normally it's not imaginative, but it works well because of how it contrasts against Dante's lax and content nature

>!Hawk

Literally only a cuck would think Griffith had any good motives or did nothing wrong

Grandmaster and Letho from Witcher 1 & 2 belong in Elder God and Great, respectively.

Griffith is an egocentric sociopath.

You'd need some mental issues think he's good.

No one said Guts is a hero but he's definitely a good guy at heart (you knew if you read the manga).
All the faults Guts has are understandable because of his past


Griffith is just a manipulative lunatic. It doesn't matter if he offered "the world" to Guts because all Guts wants is to fight

>Guts is a total jerk and I can't wait to kill him
>I can't wait to kill him
GRIFFITH

It's too bad these threads are more about Griffithfags trying to justify their boytoy's awfulness than anything else

>every villain should be muh misunderstood sadboi

Fuck you. Also Griffith hasn't done anything right in the entire series. His whole Hawk career was Guts killing everyone and him taking credit. Hell even his rebirth was thanks to the life of (amongst others) Guts. Griffith hasn't earned absolutely anything for himself or done anything but fuck everything up. Zod has to look after him like a babysitter, the godhand, Guts, Casca. The reason he gets so much love here is because he is the way for you frustrated manchildren to self insert into an all powerful gary-stu

And you don't understand that there are some people who are meant to rule. Griffith isn't a sociopath, he just want to have control over what is rightfully his. He was promised the world, and he was courteous enough to make a paradise for anyone who followed him. If you weren't poisoned by the foolishness of individuality and democracy, you would understand that everyone has a part and place in the world, and my place is to rule.

Best Villian incomming
>trigger warning

Better list incoming

Spoiler that shit next time you fucking prick

I don't know man. Kefka was pretty good.

>griffith
>nothing wrong

Okay, seriously, somebody explain this to me.

I WANT HUEY TO DIE
DIE DIE DIE

Name one thing he's done wrong. And if you think killing some people so you can become a god is wrong, you're literally retarded because you can't face judgement if you're a fucking god.

>Jaden, I was scared.You have to believe me... where... we're friends, remember.

There will never be another Jedi Knight game

how is hannibal insane?

doesn't he fit in the great tier?

Nice Freudian slip there, autismo.

Kojima, just because it's Mads doesn't mean cannibalism is okay.

1. 'not doing anything wrong' does not equal a good person
2. rape
3. morality exists without the presence of an observer, so it's still fucked to kill someone
4. he's a shit god

Sexing the princess and then getting caught and tortured is more than enough. And he only got out with the help of the people he would sacrifice later. Oops

If you actually had ambitions you would realize griffith's life is literally nothing but grief and hard choices,
You work hard all your life, literslly sucking dick and winning battles with critical thinking. But then it literally all goes away in a slow painful degeneration by how having some incest pedophile king sentence you to torture, and his gay midget torturer cuts off your your tongue, and skins you slowly for a whole year. Then having the piece of shit who left you come back and feel sorry for you.

Griffith's life sucks, hes probably still in grief since he got his ambition but cheated on his way due to magic and shit

>Breen is a better villain than Jon Irenicus

This image is fantastic bait

1) "Not doing anything right" does not equal a bad person.
2) You can't rape the willing.
3) Morality doesn't exist without the presence of an observer, it's why cultures consistently clash because they have different moral values, which is why we have so many religious and racial politics in the real world about what is acceptable and what is not. Also, if morality was absolute, then this argument would be in my favor, because the Berserk world is governed by causality, and because Griffith activated the Behelit, it means he was destined to become Femto, which means he's, again, done nothing (morally) wrong.
4) Not an argument.

>Griffith did nothing wrong

alright, how about killing all of his friends, who helped him out of the good of their hearts? is that the act of a good person?

They literally, LITERALLY, all said that they would willingly die for him.

Oh, wait, you mean you wanted them to die for him in a full-page spread with a last moment of glory, giving a tearful goodbye before the manga chapter ended? I wasn't aware devotion came with clauses.

Griffith's only mistake was falling in love

>They literally, LITERALLY, all said that they would willingly die for him.
Dying in a battle for a cause is not the same thing as being slaughtered by a man you haven't seen in a year so that he could gain power.
Here's the thing- Griffith didn't do it with noble intentions in mind. He did it because he was selfish. It had been a year since he saw these people- he didn't know them anymore. But he didn't CARE. and him not CARING about other's suffering is what makes him a bad person.

also what the hell am i doing arguing with a fucking autist who thinks that Griffith did nothing wrong
go watch more Code Geass and masturbate over how smart and better than everyone else you think you are

You mean Griffith who fucked over every single friend and basically whole world for selfish reasons?

It was so satisfying turning to the dark side and finally killing that wimp

The goal for the Hawks from the very beginning was so Griffith could get power. It was all of his followers who were inherently selfish by trying to tag along as hanger-ons so they could live the good life. How is it no one understands the concept of sacrificing yourself for someone divinely anointed? Did anyone here perform military service besides me?

Don't forget, they're all in hell now because of their selfless leader.

>Did anyone here perform military service besides me?

no, because we're not slaves

I wanna _____ Griffith

t. enlightened individual
Democracy was a mistake.

>being so beta you need somebody else to live your life for you

I think that Griffith's intentions are important here. Griffith didn't make his sacrifice for the "greater good". Pay attention to his inner monologue before and during the Eclipse. When he talked about a person having a dream, he said that it should be for no one's sake but your own. His desire for a kingdom wasn't in order to protect people or be a good ruler, just like he didn't form the Band of the Hawk for the sake of the people in it. He wanted to take care of them as much as possible as long as it didn't conflict with his goal, but he considered his goal to be more important than their lives. Before he made the sacrifice he wasn't that much worse than a lot of other people in Midland, but he was certainly not a saint who acted out of compassion for other people. If Griffith is kind to someone it's because he gets something out of it. And he is capable of very petty cruelty as well. Before the Eclipse he basically tried to rape Casca right after finding out that she and Guts were a couple, and failed only because he was crippled. He had nothing to gain from that. There was no way that would help somebody else. It was pure spite and jealousy, and foreshadowed what was going to happen.
It wasn't just what Griffith did, but the way he did it. He didn't just use an evil means for a good end, he embraced evil for the sake of evil. The God hand literally proclaim themselves to be servants of evil, and they tell Griffith in no uncertain terms that his sacrifice will transform the very essence of his being to evil. Griffith could have had no illusions about the nature of the bargain he was making. Despite the half-truths the God Hand told him and the way they manipulated circumstances so that he would be at his most desperate, he could have chosen to refuse their offer. When he accepted he felt a moment of regret, and then nothing. His first act was to rape Casca in front of Guts. Cont.

Is there a similar chart for heroes?

>Elder God Tier
Heroes whose motives are hard to find good in, and are arguably worse than villain's.
>Great Tier
Reluctant heroies who only do good things because of the situation they find themselves in.
>High Tier
Heroes who are paying back for good deeds done to them. They may be seeking to change society as a whole.
>Mid Tier
Heroes who are only obeying their nature and doing what they do to survive.
>Meh Tier
Heroes whose motives are a mystery and seem almost insane at times.
>Shit Tier
Heroes who are just good or want to help people.

We just need examples for different tiers. Goku goes to Mid, Rance is Elder God or Great, Mario is Meh...
This might work, actually.

if they're not horribly generic i actually like villains that are just plain evil or lusting for power
not to say i don't like complex villains but i find it refreshing when you don't need a character's entire life story to understand their motivation

I've only read like 2/3rds of Berserk, but isn't Griffith literally under "shit tier" ... I mean he's a really sophisticated version of the power-hungry villain, and arguably evidence that it may not be such a bad tier after all, but that's all he really is, isn't he though -- power-hungry? Or does justifying the power hunger through Nietzsche or whatever somehow make him Elder God tier?

We have gone over this time and time again, but that act proved that he was truly acting out of destructive hate.
Some say that he needed to conceive the child that would allow him to reincarnate, and thus make the world a better place. But so what if that were true? He is the most powerful being in the universe, with the power to warp reality. If he cared about "good" he could have used his powers to put her to sleep during the experience, or better yet made it a virgin conception like in the Bible. While either of those options would still be a form of rape in my book, he deliberately chose the old fashioned way because it would punish her. He had Guts pinned down and could have killed him instantly. Why didn't he put him out of his misery, when he didn't need him except as a sacrifice? Why did he instead force him to watch him rape Casca while he stared into his eyes, and while Casca begged Guts not to watch? BECAUSE HE HAD EMBRACED EVIL. And did he ever apologize to Guts, in the Guardians of Desire or when they met on the hill? He told him to his face that he came to see if he would feel any remorse or guilt (implying he knew what he did was wrong), and said to his face that he felt nothing. He has left them to suffer from demon attacks every night because he can't be bothered to put them out of their misery and he doesn't want to admit that what he did was inexcusable. He didn't say "I sacrificed you for the greater good." He essentially said that he sacrificed them for his own dream, and that nothing will change that: "You should have known. This is the man I am. You, of all people." Cont.

The character is more important than the label. Iago from Shakespeare's Othello doesn't have any compelling reason to be the villain, he simply is. But he's a bad ass villain because of how he smooth talks everyone and manipulates the entire cast without needing a motive.

Even then, Shit tier is really Elder God tier. Fuck humanizing the villain, I want a return to the Epic hero and villain a la Beowulf. Larger than life, being good/evil for the sake of it.

Let him rape my girlfriend.

Murder!

I never understood this. What is beta about wanting to serve in the military? Is it because I'm a "globalist slave" to the "Jewish hegemony"? Alright. What about you? Aren't you browsing the internet well into the early-morning? Do you not have work tomorrow? If you say you make your own hours, is that true? No, your hours are dictated by your customers. What if you have a boss that tells you when you're allowed to work? Or, perhaps you don't work at all, and instead live off of government subsidies. Aren't you then a slave to the state, who dictates what foods you can eat and how much money you can spend each month?

What brands are you loyal to when you make purchases? What's your favorite toilet paper? Your body wash and shampoo? What car do you drive? What state do you live in?

What is it about you that is "free" from the system, where no one dictates anything for you?

Let's list Griffith's other crimes; he ordered the killing of Flora, a good witch who helped humans, for no reason but to eliminate a threat to his power; he urged the Count to sacrifice his daughter in the Guardians of Desire, which was before his reincarnation and before he had any good use for Apostles except letting them kill freely. He was born in a mock Eclipse that killed even more people than the original one, thousands of refugees of every age, sex, and condition devoured by demons. He has joined the God Hand, an organization whose sole purpose is to increase human misery. Do Slan, Void, Conrad, and Ubik have the people's best interests at heart? Griffith is just like them. He has aided and abetted their designs, and his own plan for Falconia may yet turn out to be the worst bloodbath yet. In any case the turmoil of the world benefits him; people have no one to turn to except him for protection.
The logical conclusion of that train of thought is victim blaming. Guts should just "get over" what was done to him and accept it was for the greater good. Casca deserved to be raped and brutalized. Judeau, and Pippin, who fought like lions trying to protect Casca, deserved to be butchered. All of those who followed Griffith hoping that he would repay them for their loyalty, just a statistical trade. This way of thinking is grotesque to me. Griffith is the villain of this story. He is one of my favorite characters, but he does not deserve to be pardoned or praised. Guts and everyone whose lives he destroyed deserve their revenge.

They followed him wanting to bathe in the glory he brought them, he was taking what was rightfully his.

Lol ty for ctr

But Huey was the hero not the villain.

succ

He would be somewhere between mid and high given the descriptors. He's evil because of Demise's curse, but he set out to do what he did because the Gerudo people were treated like trash by Hyrule.

I didn't join this thread for fucking Metal Gear bullshit.

are you trying to excuse being a pathetic, communalist follower? seriously bro kill yourself

individualism is the path to greatness. study and learn all that you can, so that you may become ubermensch and transcend morality to bring pure will of power to bear on your goals and achieve great goals

Sauce? I'm assuming a guy is saying that to her.

>It had been a year since he saw these people- he didn't know them anymore. But he didn't CARE. and him not CARING about other's suffering is what makes him a bad person.
Not arguing about le Griffith did nothing wrong meme, but if you actually read the manga you'd know that he actually cared; that's the nature of the behelit, sacrificing something you don't care about has no meaning and would give him no power. He was able to become Femto precisely because he cared about them.

dont worry, the way huey ends up dying is great

You're right, we should all be like Griffith.

>What is beta about wanting to serve in the military?
assuming you're american, you're fighting and dying afor absolutely no reason against countries that are absolutely no threat to you

>Schierke is gonna get front row seats to Cascarape

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Farnese too.
Man I can't wait for that chapter.

>getting cucked by your son and then drowning yourself
Otacon is alpha as fuck for a nerd.

Griffiths motivation is power first and foremost. That would make him a shit tier villain.

Posted this last villian thread but it got deleted shortly after.

Without being ironic what, if any, villian did you honestly question that their motives are as good as the protagonists?

I know only a small handful of people here played it but my only example was wilfre from drawn to life.

actually caring for people as people means not murdering them, user. caring about them because you're lonely is selfishness, not actual affection
but we're talking about classical forms of morality user, of course there's no objective morality

Loghan is also great tier according to list logic

>Griffin did no wrong

Breath of Fire 3. Whether Myria was right or wrong depends entirely on if she was lying in the conversation before the final battle and I don't think she was.

Natsuyasumi

Griffith's motivation from the start has always been "I want to rule my own country." It's basically the same shit as Ganondorf. The only difference is that he's got enough screen time to actually get some character development establishing him as an emotional house of cards.

>and he was courteous enough to make a paradise for anyone who followed him

Yeah man, long live the Band of the Hawk.

Long live indeed

tier lists can work, but one of my absolute favorite villain suits
>mid tier

and either
>average or low tier

I think the writing for either dialogue or lore is far more important for antagonist building than the individual themselves.

Elysion was fucking horseshit though

Dhaos from Tales of Phantasia.
He was just trying to save his own world. Both the protag and the antag have the same motives.

>kills people closest to him in the mist gruesome way
>rapes best friend's gf
>brings monsters into the world who kill countless people

Only a sociopath or a troll would even try to defend this.

Didn't you already get cucked to death?

Don't listen to these beta civies. While they are paying of their student debt we will be swimming in that sweet GI Bill. Hooyah easy day.

All tiers in OP's list can be god tier if they are successfully delivered.

Take Darth sidious from star wars as an example. He's nothing but pure evil for the sake of it, but he's memorable and fun follow. He loves being evil so much that you cant help yourself but liking him.

>killing people to become god is wrong becaue you cant face judgement

Come on, at least put some effort in it
lol that makes it even worse

Isn't Great and Mid tier basically the fucking same? They both basically try to survive in the place they find themselves in?

Griffith is an elder God villain, but only because I fucking hate him so much. He's such a huge faggot and the fact that people on Sup Forums will defend him as somehow not a bad guy makes him an even greater villain because he is an irredeemably bad guy who rapes and kills his own friends just so he can be numbuh 1 like the fucking child he is. I hope guts rapes him to death, because guts is fully aware that he's not a good person