How were you supposed to know to use a bomb on a wall without cracks ?

How were you supposed to know to use a bomb on a wall without cracks ?

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why do the trees have big black dicks?

It says it right there in the strategy guide

A reasonable question imo

>this obvious bait
2017 Sup Forums stopped trying

Clairvoyance.

I spent a year after i bought this piece of shit as a kid wondering why my game was broken. Eventually, I looked it up online and was pissed off that my progress was blocked by such shitty game design. The series created consistency on bombs only breaking cracked walls, and this game breaks that rule out of nowhere

I've never played it, but the gap in the fence or whatever that is would have at least made me inspect the area. Still pretty obscure though

So what you're saying is Aonuma turned Zelda into a Skinner box.

That fucking gap, how obvious does it have to be for nu-gamers?

Clinging the sword on it gave it away IIRC. Don't remember if it's mentioned at this point or not.

Walls that can be bombed make a unique sound when struck with your sword. Someone in the game mentions this to you

>game creates consistency as far as game design and mechanics for a dozen sequels
>out of the blue, decides to break it in this game after having re-established just 5 minutes prior with cracked walls
>"b-b-but it s fine because there were two 16x16 fences on either side that you were supposed to know mean that you have to use a bomb on this wall that your gamer instinct and the game's very own consistency rule have proven cant be destroyed with a bomb"

The ladder that tells you there's obviously something there?
The obvious gap?

Of all the things to be stumped on in this game, this is by far the saddest.

So what you're saying is Aonuma turned Zelda into a Skinner box.

>talking to every NPC you meet in a Zelda
>clinging your sword to every single wall in the game when you re stuck to figure out which way to go
>actually being expected to discern a difference in sound on a 16 bit platform and it being a critical game mechanic

Admit it, this was a case of shoddy ass game design

I don't think you know what a Skinner box is user

That's nothing, I remember a bombable wall in that game where your only indication is two of those destructible dungeon skulls.

>Ladder on coming out from the floor
>Wooden fence post making a doorway
Hmm.....

unfunny jokes aren't bait

user has been conditioned so he won't even think to try using bombs because there are no cracks in the wall. All he knows is placing a bomb at cracks- and only cracks- will reward him.

He likely also has no idea how to fight a boss until it shows him its giant eyeball.

Jokes aside this shit really pissed me off back them

...

For one brief instance, Capcom decided to do something in Minish Cap that wasn't for casuals.

Cracked walls in the Zelda series were a fucking mistake.

You speak as if we're talking about Dark Souls here. Zelda's always had caves that you enter through the west side of the map, walk three steps and exit through a ladder in the northeast corner. Level design consistency and visual cues have never been as intricate as to go against your gamer senses. Especially considering we're talking about consumable resources within the game. In Dark Souls, finding illusory walls is counter intuitive for the most part, but all it costs you to attempt breaking one is a bit of stamina that takes a split second to recover. Minish Cap blocks literally the rest of the game in the SECOND area of the game behind a game mechanic that literally contradicts everything the 50 Zeldas that came before it have established

That still has nothing to do with Skinner boxes.

>wow if only I had a weapon that could break this
>hmm these bombs I got could probably work

it's called using ALL of the skills that the game teaches you you retarded fucking donut

>see what obviously looks like an entrance
>staircase right above it indicating that there's a cave system in the area
>know that the game and franchise has let you bomb open walls to open caves or passages
>there's no crack, but there ARE other obvious signs that something could be here
>"why don't i try a bomb and see what happens"

there, that's logic that even a 6 year old can piece together in the span of two minutes. if you still have trouble figuring out what to do, next time sit down and think for more than two seconds, instead of coming to whine about it on an albanian rice farming forum about how much critical thinking hurts your walnut sized brain, to the point where suicide seems like the only option to ease the pain (and protip: suicide IS the answer for someone as catastrophically stupid as yourself)

We doin' this now?

>Skin·ner box
>ˈskinər ˌbäks/
>noun Psychology
>noun: Skinner box; plural noun: Skinner boxes

>an apparatus for studying instrumental conditioning in animals (typically rats or pigeons) in which the animal is isolated and provided with a lever or switch that it learns to use to obtain a reward, such as a food pellet, or to avoid a punishment, such as an electric shock.

Bomb crack, get reward. Bomb crack, get reward. Bomb crack, get reward. Bomb crack, reward.

Get reward? Bomb crack.

No crack? No bomb. No reward.

>missing the point of this game and the series as a whole
Never change Sup Forumseddit.

It would have been perfectly fine to have Minish Cap not have cracks on any wall whatsoever. But previous Zelda titles have NEVER had any walls that didnt have cracks that you couldnt destroy. And you're introduced to the concept of blowing up walls that have cracks once again in Minish Cap, whereas blowing up walls that look perfectly fine is NEVER introduced. It literally is a game mechanic that the game doesnt explain to you and expects you to know to finish the game. No matter how you try to explain it, it's bad game design. It's as if Half Life never explained the charged jump or whatever it's called and expected you to magically know how to perform it halfway through the game.

When the game has already established that cracked walls exist in it, there is no reason to seek non-cracked walls to destroy if the game doesnt explicitly ever teach you to. Had the entire game not contained any cracked walls or at least introduced the concept, it would have been a different story

There's literally a doorway and a ladder in one spot that you're naturally going to progress to. Are you so stubborn or retarded that you refuse to inspect the suspiciously perfect opening?

Capcom should make more 2d zelda games

>not inspecting that obvious fence gap
Now try La Mulana.

>lock onto everything the entire game
>suddenly this boss is unkillable
>read FAQ many years later
>turns out you had to shoot the train without locking on

Because of the fence and rocks being set up like that. Zelda games don't have things set up like that normally, unless there's a secret.

Bait or not, this is worse than the retards that got stuck on Sonic 3's cylinder.

I thought the fence doorway was a dead giveaway. If nothing else there's no reason not to try putting a bomb there.

> nuplayers

Breakable walls always had symbols in the game, also if you tried to think outside of the box that room could have been simply foreshadowing the water filled world you would later explore, with the player moving behind the glass tube when revisiting the room

Look, i agree with you. For a point that you have to continue through, it should be a cracked wall. Non cracks should be secrets and powerups that aren't needed.

But dude if you got stuck for fucking days on this you must be considered brain dead.
Even getting frustrated and just bombing fucking everything, and trying all shit out at the time would've taken a few hours.

honestly that stumped me for quite a while growing up.

It wasn't until i accidentally used a super bomb in the room that i understood. I knew that using them could open up new passages, but up until that point (and after) all the passages were tied to the actual floors/walls. A glass walkway didn't really make sense at being bomb-able, at least in my mind.

No. LttP, LA, OoT, MM, and the Oracle games all had bomb walls without cracks in them.

A Link to the past has unbreakable cracks.

That entire area is in no way designed to intuitively guide you towards that fence either. It ends abruptly while being very open. You also have about 3 vines before you get to this area that you can't grow because you dont have access to the green goo water. Your gamer instinct will directly lead you to assume that you have to grow those vines instead. Also, the white spikes on the floor can be absorbed by the magical pot and can hide things underneath. The game already had TWO other possible paths to take that would have borrowed from proven and used game mechanics at that point of the game, neither of which uses a consumable limited resource and in an extremely open area where the missed pathway could be anywhere. There is absolutely NO reason whatsoever to think to use a bomb there. This is shitty level design

>But previous Zelda titles have NEVER had any walls that didnt have cracks that you couldnt destroy.
Link to the Past had walls in the Tower of Hera that had cracks and couldn't be destroyed.

The Legend of Zelda didn't have cracks in ANY of its walls. You had to look at your map and had to rely on bombing suspicious walls.

Link to the Past's cracked walls were a series mistake that conditioned the player to go "crack = bomb" without ever thinking about it. The different noise when walls are tapped with a sword is a much better solution to alert the player a wall can be bombed, but even then that's casualizing the series somewhat.

what the fuck were those white things supposed to be and why did they hurt me if i walked into them?

Based Capcom

you aren't taught to blow up walls with cracks in them. you're just taught to blow up walls that look OUT OF PLACE with the rest of the walls in the area.

99% that means a crack, but there are other ways that you can make a wall look suspect without having to put a crack over it.

Name literally one

By this logic couldn't any game with established rules be considered a skinner box?

cum

I literally only figured this out because I was imitating that half-second bit from the commercial.

youtu.be/iEJRopoENZY?t=21s

Well that obvious as fuck gap sure makes it obvious. And it's been at least a decade since I've played this shit, but does it make a different sound when swinging the word or holding the spin attack?

Nah. Zelda used to have creative thinking and moments that really made you go 'hmm"

Now it's push block, bomb crack, hit eyeball.

Pretty much everything in the scene points to that spot, screaming "THERE'S SOMETHING HERE"

It's framed by rocks, fenceposts, you see that shit right when you enter the zone so you've already seen it when you reach it, and there's a sign before it saying DO NOT BOMB WALLS, indicating that you can bomb walls and expect something to happen.

Basically they did everything short of having a big flashing arrow saying BOMB THIS

>not just throwing a fit and pressing every button

The gap is a pretty big hint, other zelda games have things like that and the only way to find it is to stab the wall with your sword till you hear a funny noise.

never played that one, but I would have bombed that wall because it looks like a doorway with that fence post and boulder arrangement, not the mention that triangle shaped decal on the ground pointing towards the wall.

As stated in , The Tower of Hera.

Cracked walls were a serious mistake from a game design perspective since they completely eliminated the possibility of hiding secrets and helped to eliminate the concept of secrets in the Zelda series entirely.

Which is more fair than having non cracked breakables. An unbreakable crack basically misleads you into using up a bomb for no reason. It's a cheap bait and switch, but it's acceptable in terms of level design. The game also shows that walls like this can exist fairly early. I'm positive the sewers of the first level had two cracks on a distinct wall, the first of which couldnt be broken whereas the second could be. The game, through its design, explains this mechanic to you

They were actually visible in TLoZ but hard to tell apart. But that point is irrelevant in this situation. The game had ALREADY ESTABLISHED that cracked walls do not exist, so there's no reason to go look for walls that dont have cracks and try to break them

The Tower of Hera had walls that HAD cracks in them, but couldnt be blown up. You mentioned walls that DIDNT have cracks in them but still could be blown up

My question stands, name one

The second room in the Ancient Tomb in Oracle of Ages.

...

>Which is more fair than having non cracked breakables. An unbreakable crack basically misleads you into using up a bomb for no reason. It's a cheap bait and switch, but it's acceptable in terms of level design.

This is retarded logic. If I was taught to NOT bomb regular walls (as in your problem), then why is cracked ones not blowing up acceptable? If I were to use your retarded thinking, I'd just bomb the same spot repeatedly because the game told me cracked walls break. It's a flaw in your thinking process if you can't piece together all the context clues the game is handing you.

So what you're saying is that you'd rather have a game series that's supposed to be about exploration to condition you into certain behavior with visual cues instead of allowing you to you know, actually explore.

Gotcha.

Name one more that's not in 8 bit shit and/or that doesnt contain secret rupees but actually hides the rest of the game behind it

>Name one more that's not in 8 bit shit and/or
See pic.

>that doesnt contain secret rupees but actually hides the rest of the game behind it
The second room in the Ancient Tomb in Oracle of Ages.

You're twisting the point. The game doesnt teach you NOT to bomb regular walls. It never teaches you to actually bomb them. The only walls you're ever conditioned to bomb are ones with cracks. In LttP, you could use the sword technique to test out whether or not a wall was breakable if you didnt want to expend that one bomb on testing. All it took you was 2 seconds to charge up the spin attack and tap the wall to see the noise it makes. The crack indicates a possibility that the wall may be breakable. A lack of crack is not an indication of anything, and you d have to scan the entire area with your sword while listening intently to make it out in Minish Cap

Even from your picture I can see how I solved it. There's a ladder
In the direct line of the opening
Lined by fence
Which is lined by rocks
Heck, I would've been shocked if nothing happened with how many hints you get.

I would assume that an entrance would open there, but since it isn't a cracked wall it would presumably open because of a secret switch or an item I don't have yet

The room that was just posted

Nearly every bombable wall in Eagle's Tower in the same game

A critical to the path wall in Turtle Rock

Every single bomable wall in the first Zelda game.

This part made me quit the game.

>not in 8bit
Nice moving the goalposts.

But I do have your other demand met. Highlighted for your convenience.
If you remember the path through this dungeon correctly, you should know that while you do see cracks on one side of this wall on this map, you will never actually see them in game as the only way to get into that room is the bomb the side of the wall without cracks. Moving forward from there will grant you the Lv2 Power Bracelet.

I commend my compatriot on arguing with you while I found this map.

Or you look at the context clues and use critical thinking expected of a human playing video games
>A literal entrance
>Ladder nearby
>It's at a dead end of an area you've been progressing through

Why would you NOT bomb it? Give one good reason to say "no, I'm just going to leave instead of trying this"

Sure, it's easy to tell when the bomb's already placed there and you're only looking at that particular area on the screenshot. There's about 5 more large areas before that, each one of which hides a potential pathway

See previous posts. I also hope I dont have to explain to you why it's irrelevant if it comes in the same game, only afterwards

>The game doesnt teach you NOT to bomb regular walls.
It does by conditioning you into thinking cracked wall = bombable wall. It repeatedly drills that idea into you until you complain that a wall without a crack is bombable, like the purpose of this entire thread.

Fucking hell, you even contradict the very sentence I'm quoting two sentences after it. You're hopeless. Maybe you should play something more your speed, like this.

Don't hurt yourself living that goalpost, friend.

>signaled by other landmarks
>at the end of an area that looks like there's nothing you can do
>you can hold your sword and poke a wall to check if it's bombable or not

because bombs are a limited resource? I've always been really stingy with items that you can run out of in games and zelda games are always full of places you can't advance through until you have a certain item or do a certain thing, so I would assume the wall would open up after completing a task or something

It took me maybe 20 minutes and I only played that game when I was sleep-deprived. It's just not that hard to try out bombs even without cracked walls.

>Face Shrine

Back when I could still beat LttP and LA entirely by memory, I always disliked doing this dungeon. Fucking hell, all that goddamn backtracking and looping.

>you can hold your sword and poke a wall to check if it's bombable or not

game never teaches you this

He has to ignore any 8-bit game since they're the only ones free of Aonuma's hand holding clutches.

OP's screenshot is specifically designed to teach the player that solid-looking walls could in fact be hiding something.
That's the game right there teaching you to actually bomb them. And it does that by showing you a ladder up above.

An NPC tells you that in every single Zelda game in which the feature is there. Stop lying.

Not OP, but if I saw that as it is my first thought would be "okay, that's an exit from somewhere and I'll have to jump down to this very point in the future" as it's also a very common mechanic in videogames.

It's really depressing how low the Zelda series has fallen.

BotW at least shows some promise, but I'm not holding my breath.

They aren't limited, you can run out but always find more. It's not really a crisis whenever you run out. What the hell else are you gonna be using bombs for besides blowing up walls? It's only 1 bomb.
It does and it's in previous Zelda games as well.

Ocarina of Time, Dodongo's Cavern, that hallway with the Baby Dodongos in it, and you have to push a statue onto a switch to move forward.
Halfway though the room there's a wall that can be bombed that leads you to a Gold Skultula.
No cracks, easily missable.

You'd run out of bombs pretty quickly if you just started bombing random sections of wall on a whim

And that's why you can tap your sword on the walls.

You would, but if you consider that spot "random" then you're beyond help. You can also swing at the wall and only bomb spots that give the appropriate sound

Getting stuck for a while would make you start looking for hints in a few minutes. It not being obvious doesn't make it bad. I tried every item there first before the bomb because I knew there would be SOMETHING.

if theres any kind of gap next to a wall in zelda nine times out of ten you're supposed to bomb it

Well, I wouldn't know there's something.
It looks like an exit pathway to me, and thus I'd go somewhere else to look for an entrance that ultimately leads to me exiting through those stairs.

>It does and it's in previous Zelda games as well.

huh, I actually completely forgot about that because you almost never need to use it

honestly that's so close to being good game design, have an NPC explain that to you and then have a few walls nearby/a whole dungeon that relies on doing that, instead you probably get told that by some random NPC in the middle of a village and it simply never comes up again until hours and hours later

NES had no cracked walls

>bombs only breaking cracked walls

t. never played a 2D Zelda

Ur dum then