Fighting games have too high of a barrier of entry

How do we streamline these games so that your average gamer isn't too intimidated by them.

Otherwise the genre might die.

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You can't lower it any lower than SFV without casualizing the genre.
>so that your average gamer isn't too intimidated by them
Casual gamers have their Cawadoodies, FIFAs and Mortal Kombats.

they don't need to be streamlined. you either get fucking good and learn how to play or you go back to dark souls and call of duty you little faggot

Why do you keep making this thread? You're just going to get the same answers every single time.

>fighting games too hard
>plays 5-10 hours then drops it
>plays mobashit for 500-1000 hours wahh I'm still bad
>plays 5k hours still bad

You can still have fun even in silver. Took me 70 hours to hit gold as a new player. All I needed to do was learn meaties/oki

Go back to the mortal kombat model where you only have three mostly simple button combos for their special moves.

Some of the professionals in the industry already discused this problem.

youtube.com/watch?v=n_xG1Yg_QoM

>Extra Credits
>professionals in the industry

why does this dude have to do the pitched-up voice thing? i'd watch this if he would talk like a normal person.

Casual here.

The games themselves aren't the barrier, the barrier to entry is getting curbstomped in three seconds every single match

Either you've been playing fighting games for years and master every new game in two weeks or you're bullied into the scrub ghetto for life

Playing offline with fellow scrubs is fun but you don't get anywhere that way

Everyone was an 09er/16er once, user.

>How do we streamline these games so that your average gamer isn't too intimidated by them.

Isn't Riot doing this? Will probably be one-button specials, if nothing else.

Make them team based. That's literally just it.

>people think combos and special are more important then fundamentals

This. When I lose, I want to be in a comfortable position where I can shift the blame.

the difference between a moda and a fg for casuals is that fgs are 1v1 so when you suck and lose you can't pretend its not your fault

It's sped up because otherwise the videos are far too long. He has an animation series that skips out on that, and those episodes are usually forty minutes long.

remove the motions

The genre isn't going to die unless you change it.

what's a good fighting game to start with dudes, I was thinking KoF14 on ps4, I have a good PC too

i think KoF is really precise, I was having trouble inputting anything with my dualshock, I was using the dpad mainly, is that what most people who use a controller do?

it's called mortal kombat/usf4/dengeki bunko/smash bros/killer instinct/tekken

jesus fuck there are so many casual fighting games where you mash and win go fuck yourself

>combos are too complex! It's too much knowledge!

youtu.be/lEIAy7kAeWE

Death to every cunt who posts cancerous fucking e-celeb shit on Sup Forums.

The only problem are the inputs. Everything else is fine.

>tfw can't play online well because I'm too slow for any input, so I can forget about comboing someone let alone reliably pull off a special move

And then fightingfags wonder why Smash has a bigger playerbase than everything else combined.

A dedicated block button would be nice. Will be a lot more reliable than trying to hold back.

because of le mario and zelda?
take away nerd creed icons from smash and nobody wants to play it anymore

source: that CN fighting game, sony allstars

It goes SFV > Smash > everything else
And in Japan, it's Gundam > Tekken > everyone else

is that true on a worldwide scale, or just in america?
also i could understand that since smash has such enormous appeal due to its legendary roster.

There's plenty of fighting games that streamline it. Take UNIEL for example. It is simplified, its EXS system flows with the game and isn't something you have to watch, and it has auto-combos. You can use these tools to level the playing field a bit against more experienced players, and eventually start to pick up combos and playstyles of your own. You've got different character archtypes you can being to learn (zoner, grappler, two-character, etc) It also teaches you character tiers.

Persona Arena is similar, with some added gimmicks and mini-games, like the "awakened" health bar, or the baseball guy's home run minigame.

Both introduce you to concepts important for games like Guilty Gear and BlazBlue, but they're presented in a simplified format. Even Battle Fantasia had Guilty Gear's new blitz move as its main mechanic.

>source: that CN fighting game, sony allstars
I think it was more because those games suck ass.

That one game robot fighting game pretty much proved that the motions are not the problem

casuals still typically dont know which button is which and just spam attack ones and hope to win

with no regard to defence

>What is Mortal Kombat and how do I make them not sue me?

You can't streamline 1v1 combat any more than many game already have. Casual players will always be indimidated by losing and no matter how simple a game is there's going to be a winner and a loser so most will be driven away on that alone

I think Dengeki is a better "simple"/casual fighter that isn't completely braindead.

>fighting game gives you training mode with a practice dummy and teaches a few combos
>you get your ass beat online nonstop
>look shit up online, learn about mixups, frame traps, footsies, etc
Why is this shit never explained in any fighting game?

/thread

>mfw think fighting games are really difficult to properly learn
>realise it's just not my type of game and move on instead of bitching for the barrier of entry to lowered
Fighting games are niche these days, and streamlining them would just turn off the die hard fighting game players who keep the genere afloat.

Bonus points if a proper jump button is included too.

what if instead of "you lose" at the end, it says "you participated" or "you finished second"

it's easier to learn which button is which than do a double quarter circle whatever all three punches i dont know

eternal reminder that A FUCKING DOG can throw a fireball and you can't

youtube.com/watch?v=dPuyagq27hs

Please get the fuck away from the genre and stop fucking casualising it. SFV is a fucking mess because of these people, learn the game or fuck off to something more akin to your babby taste, the genre has done just fine without you.

man, who cares about fighting games

all they're good for is music and waifus

How can people put 1-2k hours easy on mobashit but complain about having to practice in training mode for a couple of hours?

Visual guides and better tutorials in game to explain mechanics

2 buttons to kick and punch, unless you get QTE, then you can do some sickass combo

I don't know, but the current guilty gear has a a dedicated tutorial for each character.
It's really great, and should be standard for the genre.

>no final chapter
CUT MY LIFE TO PIECES

You don't.

I'm not a fighting game player. I'm an old arena FPS player. When the LAN scene was big in the Toronto area I went to lan tournies every weekend to play UT, Quake, Tribes and shit like that.

Every single change that was made to our games to accommodate casuals hurt our games and our communities. We thought we were making sacrifices for the greater good, but eventually the things we loved were unrecognizable to us.

Don't start down that road. Sometimes, dead is better.

MK is more skill intensive than SFV tbqh

yet they still dont ever bother learning which button does which

and do any amount of defence

basics first people, normal attacks are key , not spamming your specials

This.
>Input requires up at some point
>You obviously jump midway
>Oh you just gotta, you know, practice until you can work around thisretarded mechanic :)

are there any good fightans on steam right now that play well with kb/m

>I think it was more because those games suck ass.

But those games had nothing to do with Sony's Smash clone, aside from the Sony mascots.

It is literally the same game as Smash Bros.

And barely anyone played it.

Proving 's point.

Same as how people can put thousands of hours into Street Fighter and then complain about 09ers instead of practicing a new game when it comes out.

Reskin these games as "MOBA fighters" and watch the cash flow in.

Okay lets streamline them

Execution is hard, all gone which means developing a system that works and is still fun.
Well you still have combos which require timing, make that super lenient so now every can do max damage easily
But long combos still take practice and are horrible to be in, take them out beside maybe a few 3 hit combos
Oh but you still have to learn set ups knowing what button is to be used on what kind of knock down what it leads to and how you could mix up an opponent, either remove meaties or have it just be one button for every situation
But now they still have to deal with anti airing cause people just jump all the time, no more jumping
Foosties are hard though, one button you will use in neutral which is the same speed and distance for everyone
Zoning is cheating as you keep someone so far out and can't do anything, no fireballs
Grabbing is cheap as well, no more grabbing

There, now fighting games aren't fun

H-holy shit

...

Team loss ("my team SUCKS!") vs. Individual loss ("I don't suck, YOU CHEATED!")

>implying casualizing fighting games isn't just a quicker way of killing the genre

Where are you gonna put a fucking jump button in a 6 button fighter?

Games that have 360 motions either let you do a shortcut or has a buffer that makes you not jump if you do it fast enough.

Skullgrills has good tutorials.

>How do we streamline these games so that your average gamer isn't too intimidated by them.

4 button fighter. each button is a special with a cooldown. mash all 4 buttons and you do a super move.

Skullgirls and Guilty Gear have FANTASTIC tutorials.

>Midway has a monopoly on block button
>Capcom own backwards blocking
>no other fighting game exists

and the casual will skip them anyway

>A fighting game has 6 buttons
>3 of them are punches and 3 are kicks
>It MUST be this way because it's ALWAYS been this way!
See, this is the kind of thing that makes fighting games a closed community.

I don't know, whenever I lose in Dota2 I always ponder what I could've done better to prevent it even when other players in team were huge assfaggots

many fighting games only use 4 buttons, still whats the use in a fucking jump button? Sounds even harder than simply holding up.

I already feel this way after SFV desu

>try SFV
>try out Zangief
>his classic special throw has a 360 input
>it's also a grab so it has a short as fuck range
>people expect you to pull a 360 motion flawlessly without the game thinking you did some other input, or without the enemy just stepping away or smacking you first with a single button press

Won't help

Motions at most take a day to learn, they aren't hard. Does making it a single press change what casuals will do? No, they will still just do the one move they think is good more which they are now able to mash. Motions at least discourage this. You put the moves on a timer now you are just limiting options in game while not really helping the bad players.

I have come to spread the good word of Yomi: Fantasy Strike!

patreon.com/sirlin

Virtua Fighter has a block button

Several respected fighting games don't follow jab/straight/fierce.

But talking to people who don't know what they're talking about will often lead to such misconceptions.

let Blizzard handle it, they know how to make the hottest normie approved garbage devoid of any depth or skill requirement

Good, we don't need casuals like you anyways. Even if we pander to you there'd still be something for you to complain about.

a 360 motion is not hard by any means. I don't even play Gief and I can pull it off consistently. It takes PRACTICE, something you guys apparently never heard of.

Also Gief's grab range is probably the longest in the game.

name 4 games that aren't from the same series that do this.

>each button is a special with a cooldown

This sounds absolutely atrocious for a fighting game mechanic.

>>Midway has a monopoly on block button

Unless you are doing a Soul Caliber clone, then yes, But that shifts the game into the 3D format, which most of this thread has not been about.

At which point, the Mortal Kombat comparison/fear of lawsuit is justified.

a strange game...

>we don't need you filthy casuals, we're just fine going extinct due to elitism

>Don't start down that road.
It already has with SFV
Please pray for us

>Why is this shit never explained in any fighting game?
Lets say you are a new player who barely knows his buttons. You go through tutorials and just learnt how to do a fireball and basic three hit combo, is introducing you to the concept of frametraps really going to sink in? No

The problem with all fighting game tutorials is people play the at the start having loads of shit dumped on them, then when it comes to a match they have no real knowledge what to do in a match never mind how to set that up. Even if the situation to use it comes up they are too nervous to remember

Plus the nature of fighting games mean new set ups etc are found over time, so whatever a game puts in will be outdated

Make more non-traditional ones so the scene is fresh

On a game design standpoint, I find it more interesting that of all genres, only fighters really have people performing button mashing. In any game, people often look for the rules that games abide by, where this button is to shoot, and this is to sprint, etc. The end goal in these actions is to cause damage to the opponent. Since the average fighting game character has somewhere up to 25-30 moves including variations on specials, all with access to damage, I think players are unsure as to which are best, and if they exist in a sphere where there is no player that knows which buttons are better than others, just use the ones that have the best results. To solve this, I think people need more patience in recognizing tall the buttons they have, so they can think cognitively about which buttons they are pressing rather than letting it become a mashing fest.

>implying fighting games are going extinct
we are sitting in a fighting game renaissance buddy, fighting games are doing fantastic

There's a whole lot of great fighting games aimed at different levels of experience. Dengeki is certainly one of those. I'd probably put it a step above UNIEL or Persona though.

They're all great games though. Just because they're streamlined doesn't mean they aren't fun to play. UNIEL is smooth as silk, and feels really great to sit down and play.

The only two bad games I've played are Skullgirls and Nitro+. The first is pretty severely flawed in many ways, and the second is just gimmick city. Honest, there's so many gimmick buttons in Nitro+, you can't fit them all on your controller.

Shitty characters and gameplay designs.
Most fighting games focus on long tedious combos they want you to practice mindless til you get it right and frustrating turtle style gameplay which feels cheap n dull.
You think a casual really want to learn the game to realize how shitty it actually is when they full see the blueprint of it?
Of course not, they rather just play at a low level with other low level player, thats basically the meaning of casual players, so why are you even questioning it.

>going extinct
>SFV
>Revelator
>Tekken 7
>MvCI
>Blazblue CF
>KI

Yep, dying.

It may not be as popular as your casual esports shit, but it's not dying anytime soon

makes it easier for casuals to start comboing and also get combo'd on and learn

motions are stupid anyway and there's no reason to quadruple the amount of inputs required to do things other than to keep vets happy

Virtua Fighter has a block button
Dead or Alive has a block button

Midway/NRS does not have a monopoly on a block button
It's just that people think a block button is dumb as shit (even they think so since Injustice doesn't have a block button)

MOBAs are complex in their own right, yet draw astronomical numbers. I think part of the reason for this is their business model (free to play) and that they're better suited for online play, but another part of it is the sting feels more bearable when you lose as a team and not by yourself. You can always think that your team didn't pull their weight, or even avoid experiencing losses by having strong teammates

In fighting games a new player has to get online and experience not understanding anything, getting their teeth kicked in for hours and being okay with that as they slowly try to understand what's happening and improve. Making the game easier doesn't usually help (except in rare cases for extremely hard games like from GGAC+R to XRD), even Pokken turns away people that can't get into fighting games.

Because they've been coasting off of franchise namesake for too long with stalwart franchise names while said stalwart franchises that has sweepingly worldwide recognition has made absolutely no effort in introducing a heavyweight tutorial/instructional mode that turn know-nothings into proper beginners that can comprehend what the actual fundamentals are.

the last 3 games that tried were Soul Calibur 2(weapon master), Soul Blade(edge master) and Street Fighter Alpha 3(world tour).

As far as mainstream popularity and actual legitimate household-named franchises nd pack-in modes are concerned, there hasn't been a single thing that ever came close to those and it's no wonder that those games in particular are so beloved, regardless of what tier-list addicts, arcade monsters and narrow-minded elitist tourneyfags say. Those people who are only pissing and moaning about framdata give no shits about instructional and fanbase-growing content and are pretty much the sole reason SF5 was so bare-bones.

>a 360 motion is not hard by any means. I don't even play Gief and I can pull it off consistently. It takes PRACTICE, something you guys apparently never heard of.

Then explain why even after hours of practicing the motion, it still doesn't read correctly, or I'm still too slow to use it before my opponent does something else.

>dumb the game down the casuals
>alienate your core audience
>casuals find more shit to complain about
>casuals all drop the game anyway because fighting games are inherently 1vs1 with the better man always winning, which they can't handle

Since we're bitching about fighting games, why the fuck is Smash Bros Melee considered a serious fighting game? It's literally turbo-autists taking advantage of glitches that were removed from every version of the game after Melee.

You're fucking bad

t. Zangief main

CvS2 players might have the answer to that.

The problem with fighting games is that you need an autistic level of dedication towards practicing inputs etc before you can actually have fun.

Normal people don't have the time/motivation to play a video game for hours on end before having fun.

You could just play a game where every match can potentially be won by button mashing, like Tekken.