What went so wrong for Star Fox Zero, and what went so right for the Ratchet & Clank remake?

What went so wrong for Star Fox Zero, and what went so right for the Ratchet & Clank remake?

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Both completly missed what made the original good but one of them had good graphics so it get a higher rank

Wait Ratchet & Clank was only $40?

Star Fox Zero didn't have Krystal and it tried to retcon a decade worth of Star Fox lore, so the fans rightfully boycotted it.

SF0 was $50 if you bought it without Starfox Guard.

But of course you already knew that, you're just shitposting with misinformation.

Ratchet and Clank was the better game.

Because Star Fox Zero is a fucking terrible game
I'm certain someone has the long image about why

>New game for $50
>Remake missing content for $40

Too bad the movie flopped

>if you bought it without Starfox Guard
Why would you not buy it with Guard, though? It almost removes the horrendous aftertaste that piece of shit Zero leaves.

>SF0: Miyamoto
>R&C: Miyamoto-less

what went wrong with modern nintendo?

fpbp

how bad was it?

Ratchet and Clank was the better game. It's really that simple.

>people beg for Platinum to make StarFox
>they do
>this happens

THIS. THIS SO HARD. Between this and Krystal not getting into Tr4sh, Nintendo is pandering WAY TOO HARD to furryphobes.

Zero
>stupid, pointless reboot
>forced controller gimmicks, doesn't even utilize the same control scheme as the rest of the series despite having the same buttons on the controller and no need to change most of them
>forgettable

Ratchet
>stupid, pointless reboot
>plays like the rest of the series, just not as good
>forgettable

Ratchet & Clank didn't have a senile Japanese man at the helm.

That's the exact opposite of pandering.

More like
>people beg for Platinum to make StarFox
>they do
>but Miyamoto's in charge

My bad, I read furrfags

Yup. It was a budget release. You can get it for $20 now and on Black Friday it was $10 at Gamestop.

Yes, the lack of Krystal is what made the game bad.
Not the god awful gameplay or how incredibly short the game was, or even how bad the game looked even for a Wii U game, but the lack of a character furries adore

Stop letting Miyamoto touch Star Fox. He's terrible with this shit. In fact keep him away from everything.

The movie was alright. It wasn't Illumination, Pixar or Dreamworks that made it, so it got critically panned.

It's a 6/10 for me.

>playing Star Fox for the gameplay
The only one with good gameplay was Adventures, Assault and Command were bearable because they had good stories behind them but Star Fox 1 and 64 were fucking horrible, rail shooters are such a shit tier genre.

On-rail shooters aren't a popular genre anymore.
People in their 20s have nostalgia for PS2 games, not Starfox.
The west just hates the WiiU in general due to "not enough graphics". On top of most western journalism already hating Nintendo.

>Splatoon was designed mostly by young developers
>not only was it the first real new idea Nintendo had in years, but it was also the only great and truly original game Nintendo had in years
>Miyamoto tries to keep his old ideas in place
>ruins a good number of franchises and removes any sort of creativity of games like Paper Mario
Really makes you think

>comparing a TPS action platfomer to a goddamn rail shooter

I mean shit I love the R&C series and had a decent time with SF64 and assault but still

This may be a bit of an exaggeration but you're on the right track. Nintendo threw out a lot of things people liked about later SF games and went in a completely different direction. If they'd picked up where Assault left off they would have at least attracted the people who liked the Gamecube games, but no-one was asking for another remake of Star Fox 64, let alone one that controlled like ass. Krystal is also a very popular character and having her in the game would have certainly helped.

Miyamoto really doesn't understand what it is people like about Star Fox. He keeps letting the franchise chase its own tail trying to re-capture the experience of the first game, and the ways in which he tried to evolve the series were ultimately not liked by players. I think most people would have rather had good graphics than the second screen gimmick, too.

Someone needs to lock that old cook in a closet before he ruins another series

...

Splatoon was an overrated meme game that's mostly forgotten by now, it's the Nintendo equivalent of Overwatch which is also going through the same cycle as Splatoon.

>its the genre's fault!
>its the fan's fault!
>its muh gaming journalism's fault!
Ever considered that maybe it's just a shit game?

How long before Nintendo makes him retire?

Not long I hope, I don't want this dolt touching Star Fox ever again. Or F-Zero.
Then again we'll never get more of either, good job shiggy.

They should just let Sakurai make a Star Fox game in collaboration with Namco. Or let Team Aces make it. Furry Ace Combat in Space would be dope.

Splatoon still managed to sell 4.4 million on a console no one gave a shit about.

Are you defending western journalism?

They need to pull another Treehouse and just start locking him out.

When Splatoon came out it was new meme but now it's old meme.

I really want a new F-Zero game but not while Miyamoto is around. He only wants it to happen if there's a new control gimmick and that would utterly ruin it.

Reminder that Miyamoto canceled Star Fox 2 because he was jealous of Argonaut and wanted to mine the game for ideas to use in Star Fox 64.

Really seeing the forest for the trees

the game was bad, stop blaming the failure all on external factors like journalism and the fans

>new f-zero announced
>directed by miyamoto
>has some retarded controller gimmick
>only has CF, Pico, Stuart, and Goroh because "hurr nostalgia"
>only has 12 courses
>no online play

Jesus Christ user stop feeding me nightmare fuel

t. Miyamoto
Even fucking Aonuma listens to the fans now.

When you bet on the wrong horse and it fails spectacularly, the natural reaction seems to be to blame everything but the horse.

It's the same with people blaming Miyamoto etc.

the game isn't even bad, it just doesn't pander to newer generations and it shows. People who expected a sequel to SF64 got what they wanted. But those are a minority, most people wanted krystal, or just wanted to hate on the game from day 1 because "Muh miyamoto ruining games" and "muh wii u hateboner".

My last decade+ with Nintendo has been nightmare fuel.

When the Gamecube came out, Nintendo was finally no longer limited by cartridges and it felt like a new frontier where the sky was the limit. Then came the Wii and I came to suspect me and Nintendo were going in different directions.

>the game isn't even bad, it just doesn't pander to newer generations and it shows.

>I think, for example, an elementary school kid who plays it without any preconceived notions, I think it would be really fun for them.
nintendolife.com/news/2016/07/shigeru_miyamoto_thinks_you_should_give_star_fox_zero_another_try

>People who expected a sequel to SF64 got what they wanted.

Star Fox Zero is the exact same story as 64 but with different gameplay. That's about as far from a sequel as it gets.

They tacked on motion controls and deliberately misleading reticles onto a remake of an N64 game (admittedly the last time the series wasn't hot garbage) in order to pretend the gamepad had any merit.
Its really baffling to me since the wiimote + nunchuck seems like it would be perfect for a rail shooter. But nope lets not do that lets throw in mech platforming sections where you press back on the right stick to jump. As well as a control scheme that actually literally has a face button dedicated to fixing the controls if they start going out of alignment.

>without any preconceived notions

That's the key.

He's talking about a young kid, not a teenager/young adult that grew up with 6th gen, which is the majority of Sup Forums.

SF0 isn't the best game I ever played, but as a fan of SF64, I enjoyed what it was, I don't consider it a bad game and I'd rather play it over a PS2 nostalgia title.

>People who expected a sequel to SF64 got what they wanted
>another reboot in the series
>motion controls that turned away both casuals and longtime fans
>recycled story
>recycled dialogue with minor tweaks to make you think it's different

It's especially ironic because Miyamoto is pulling the infamous "kids have no standards so they'll like it" excuse.

I played tons of shitty games when I was a kid, because I had no money and if someone gave me a game, I would play it.

...

>He's talking about a young kid
So it doesn't pander to newer generations except when it does and you conveniently say it doesn't.

>wanting online play
>F-zero

what is wrong with you

Sakurai was making a Star Fox game for Wii but it became Kid Icarus Uprising.

Only took three posts for a Krystal fag to rear his faggot head.

Reminder that Star Fox Adventures and Star Fox Assault were both horse shit and rightfully panned upon release as well.

Yeah I admit I worded it wrong. I meant it doesn't pander to the 6th/7th gen generation.

Zero had shitty controls, R&C had good gameplay.

People shitting on R&C ignore that tons of people had never played R&C before, so they were going into the series blind. For those people myself included it was a fun combat platformer with a decent amount of replayability and an unintrusive, albeit slightly disjointed, story. It was a fun game. Meanwhile, if someone's first Star Fox game was Zero, they'd be treated to a clusterfuck and truly unfun control scheme and a game that ended in only a few hours with little replayability.

>a child that doesn't know what it is could enjoy it
That doesn't paint the game in a positive light. That probably angered more furries if anything.
>that incredibly unsubtle BUT SONY

>but sony

Well, this thread is basically nintendo vs sony, it didn't come out of nowhere.

>People who expected a sequel to SF64 got what they wanted
I'm pretty sure people wanted a sequel, not ANOTHER reboot.
>64 is a reboot of Star Fox
>gets a reboot after a remake
The OP has Ratchet & Clank.

I don't get all the hate for R&C around here myself.
Neither it or the original have good writing so the story reboot isn't worth crying over about, and as far as being a game goes it's miles better than the original. It's downsides were just having almost no original weapons, which sucked if you were coming off of the recent PS3 games, and the length being pretty short, but you should expect that from a budget release.

I'd honestly call it one of the best in the series.

they took the anti-edgy faggots seriously and now only make colorful toddler video games with only the bare original characters from the first game and some intentionally generic villain so as not to have any real characters

I'm playing the R&C reboot right now actually and while it probably has the best gameplay in the series, it has a really mediocre selection of weapons and the writing is terrible compared to almost every other game in the series. Also the game has a noticeably low framerate and horrible motion blur.

Overall a bit of a disappointment though still fun, maybe the next game will be better since it won't be bogged down by some dogshit movie.

>people actually believe this idiocy
>people actually think Miyamoto has the authority to cancel games on a whim
Star Fox 2 was cancelled because Nintendo didn't want to waste money on marketing an SNES game when they were trying to sell the N64. Not to mention it was directly competing with a game on the next console that they were trying to sell. It sucks that it got canned, but there's no sinister conspiracy, just market forces.

>like Paper Mario
Except Tanabe was handling Paper Mario, not Miyamoto.

>which sucked if you were coming off of the recent PS3 games
Ratchet has ALWAYS been known for its creative weapons. Hell that was even a selling point for Insomniac's other big series, Resistance. Every game, in this series that's been going for more than a decade, has had a whole bunch of new, interesting weapons. Meanwhile the reboot had like two.

I don't hate the reboot but its a big disappointment. Quite frankly I couldn't care less about morons who never played the series before it. They've been easily available for years to anyone who might want to play them. This idea that "its okay if you treat it like it exists in a vacuum" is laughable.

>falling for false flagging like a chump

Please. If you're going to go on a tirade about some blue fox, at least do it with a trip or an avatar like the rest of the morons who shit up Star fox threads.

Also, there was no "panning" of Assault or Adventures. The latter has one of the higher critical and fan scores in the whole series, and the former was only trashed by critics. Not to mention both sold surprisingly well for a system that already was having sales shortcomings.

Everyone just wants to blame a single person for the failure of an entire team. Look at all the retards who think Kojima singlehandedly makes everything in MGS and is therefore to blame for every problem and to thank for every positive aspect.

Miyamoto actually gets it even worse than Kojima though, people act like its his fault personally any time a Nintendo game does poorly.

Star Fox Zero flopping IS Miyamoto's fault though.

Its because Miyamoto is a very adamant man who forces his shitty ideas and such into games more so than a lot of other people. He is a literal George Lucas and no one stops him.

Both of them are directors. They dictate what does and doesn't go on in a game and how everything is put together. They are solely to blame for the results.

Just keep blaming that scapegoat. Next you'll say Sticker Star was his fault too. Games aren't made by a single person, directors don't play as critical a role as people pretend.

And the most important thing of all: quality has nothing to do with sales. Star Fox Zero could be the worst or best game of all time and it wouldn't have mattered in the slightest because it had dogshit marketing on a dead console. Unless now you're gonna try and tell me miyamoto is personally to blame for every aspect of the marketing of the game as well.

R&C was great imo. it was my first game of the series and really quite enjoyed it and played through it multiple times.
I would say it's also one of the most visually impressive games to come out of 2016, hard not to find pure bullshots, but it really does look amazing. Only thing though is that it was really jarring when it kept switching from in-game cutscenes to movie cutscenes.
I didn't see the movie, but how was it? Was it even that different from the game?

Well Miyamoto ruined Paper Mario and Star Fox, so.
He's just a senile old man at this point that doesn't understand gamers nowadays, and thinks that it's perfectly fine to sell something with as little content as Star Fox (While forcing a random other game to try and make up for the $60 price tag) nowadays without some kind of backlash.

>Well Miyamoto ruined Paper Mario
You've been tricked. Miyamoto told them to try to do something more interesting than just rehashing TTYD. Then Intelligent Systems royally fucked the game up. Note how usually everyone shits on Nintendo for rehashing but the moment a change is made to one of their precious formulas the entire fanbase wants Miyamoto's head, despite him not even being that involved in the game.

He's the main reason why there's no new interesting partners, and that there's no Toads other than the generic red one.

And why there is no story, and why Bowser doesn't talk. Miyamoto was given power and choices to do such things and went out of his way to ruin things. Hell the reason Mario games have been so bland for so long is because he says "I have the technology to make Mario has I always wanted him to be, why change it". This man is just awful and should not have power.

That's what I call the "fandom autism distilling effect." As the voices of reason, dissent and concern get shouted out of the fandom, eventually all that's left is the most autistic elements, and those are the only people left that the content creators listen to. They will buy literally anything that the content creators put out but will throw a temper tantrum anytime someone suggests that there's something wrong that needs to change. If the content creator decides that the property needs to be flipped upside down then these people will rejoice, but if someone on the fence says they don't like something about it the autists are quick to shout them down.

Star Fox 2 would have been released a year before the N64 launched. There was no logical reason to cancel it other than Nintendo's (and particularly, Miyamoto's) relationship with Argonaut going down the shitter. If it was just a matter of scheduling Nintendo wouldn't have severed all ties with the studio.

>Le not Pixar meme

Fuck off it was garbage

>>and why Bowser doesn't talk
>Bowser could totally just be Mario's King DeDeDe
>Nope, let's just have him as the villain forever
>HEY GUESS WHO'S THE VILLAIN OF THIS NEW MARIO GAME? BOWSER!
>Take a game with an amazing artstyle like Color Splash
>Absolutely ruin it by making it Sticker Star 2

>Solid TPS with decent lore
>Dated rail-shooter with shit lore and gimmicky controls
It's a fucking mystery

This, also it was multiplat as you could get a cheaper DVD version of the game
Seriously though how the fuck do you mess up Ratchet's movement options that hard? Hoverboard races also felt like ass compared to the original

Yeah, it turns out he didn't like how Bowser talked in Paper Mario and was like "Yeah, I don't like Bowser talking in games, so no more of that"

Better than Star Fox Zero for sure, but that doesn't mean the R&C remake was necessarily good

I thought Platinum was only in charge of the graphics, not the gameplay

Modern Nintendo of America

SFZ had too high of a learning curve with the gamepad, everyone tried the demo and it felt wrong so they didn't bother with it
I know I didn't.

This problem will end when Miyamoto retires. You just know someone at Nintendo is sitting on their hands waiting to make a Bowser game, but they know Miyamoto will never allow it because Bowser has to be the villain for all eternity. As soon as Bowser gets his own game then it will be like Yoshi or Wario Ware where people start wanting more games with Bowser as the main character, and then something else will have to take his place in the Mario franchise.

Mario's rogues gallery used to include Donkey Kong, Bowser, the Koopa Kids, and Wario. Now it's pretty much just Bowser and sometimes Baby Bowser, and people are absolutely sick of Bowser being the villain in every game. Even Ganon isn't as played out and stale as Bowser.

Miyamoto's autistic obsession is the real problem. He demands Bowser be the villain in every Mario game, Ganon be the villain in every Zelda game, and lately he's been pushing to have Ridley in every Metroid game (despite Mother Brain being Samus' original arch nemesis) and even rebooted Star Fox with the intention of keeping Andross alive so that he could return in future games.

He's obsessed with these never ending eternal struggles between two specific characters and is highly averse to letting people try new things when it comes to narrative. When it comes to Gameplay though, he's of the mindset of "if it ain't broke it needs a new controller."

This hair meme is completely retarded.

LOL

Probably because Miyamoto fucking despises characterization and holds onto the past for dear life. Just have the characters be cardboard cutouts forever. Don't make them do anything that can even be seen as different.
Miyamoto's still mad that everyone does a better job with his characters than he ever could possibly hope to do. Miyamoto will always despise companies like Square and Rareware for showing him up.

cool release from more than 3 years ago

Miyamoto is a senile old man who believes they should have made minecraft.

The sooner he joins Iwata in the unemployment line the better.

The remake was very obviously made to be an entry point for new players and players who dropped out of the series after the PS2. Ratchet basically fell by the wayside in the PS3 era, and the first game isn't very good.

I wouldn't put it on the level of like, Up Your Arsenal or Crack in Time, but it's still one of the better games in the franchise and one of the best games this year. I'm hoping Insomniac takes advantage of its success and goes all out with the next installment.

My fucking sides