What sets it apart for me the most is that there is no skill that you take from one game to the other. All fighting games share some skillsets. But your fighting game experience and skills are as helpful to playing Smash as it's helpful for FPS games or MOBAs.
Besides, why do they want to be called fighting game? Smashers don't want to be part of the FGC, they only want the stages the FGC created.
Luis Stewart
...
Nathaniel Flores
Smash thread? Sure. Any EU still awake and bored of AGDQ? Wanna netplay?
Gavin Sullivan
Who let you back in here Quentin?
David Anderson
>Smashfags are THIS autistic
Logan Walker
Nothing in this image refutes OP's arguments.
Ethan Martinez
You're just proving his point.
Lincoln Wood
How is that autism? It's a rebuttal.
Noah Rogers
Read
Landon Turner
>MARIO KART IS A RACING GAME!!!!!1
no it's not, it doesn't have mph bars, has platforms, has items - it's more like a party game, not a racing game
>BUT YOU'RE RACING PEOPLE :'(
you are doing that in almost every game, does that make first person shooters racing games?
>IT'S A RACING GAME!!!!!!!!!
even the creator says it's not and that it is a casual party game that has no depth for advanced players
>You get the idea
Nathaniel Howard
>Smash brothers isn't a fighting game
Literally the first point in the OP, though whoever made that picture is a retard for mentioning IGN as a point.
Camden Moore
What now fag?
Brayden Price
league of legends is a fighting game xD
You are fighting people therefore it is :DDD
now I demand you let our shitty game into evo and so we can take away all the slots for your community and fill it with our own despite us having other major tournaments, some even more important, and this being basically your thing that you built for years to be for your community xD
btw it's a fighting game
Isaac Powell
Oh yeah, it also brings up that "the creator says its not" point as well. Did you read the image?
Dylan Perry
>no it's not, it doesn't have life bars, has platforms, has items - it's more like a party game, not a fighting game Items are turned off, a big part of melee no one cares about smash 4 is it's movement system. Would you not consider rocket league a sports game because you can do flips off of walls?
>you are doing that in almost every game, does that make first person shooters fighting games? street fighter is a strategy game then. Genres are so ambiguous anyways
>even the creator says it's not and that it is a casual party game that has no depth for advanced players wait >no depth >melee pls no
>please leave evo then and taking up the slots that should be used for more real fighting games and let us play our games in peace evo would die with smash lmao
Gabriel Gomez
>evo would die with smash lmao without it I mean.
Michael Walker
>evo would die without smash lmao
I'm with you, but it'd do OK without us. Street Fighter is the main draw after all. It'd do worse, but for sure it wouldn't die.
Charles Hill
counter strike is an arena shooter
you are shooting people, inside of an arena of play!!!!! cs:go in quakecon NOW
he says it's not like traditional fighting games, says it's a party game, just because he used the word 'fighting' doesn't mean he said it was one - you're low iq
also stop being pedantic, things have certain meanings- 'fighting game' refers to a specific style of game
evo wouldn't die without smash, it's been dying WITH IT- displacing the hardcore audience with 12 year olds
Owen Jones
It's a platform/fighter. Sub-genre. It has elements of platforming and fighting. Also, can any one of you define party game for me? I genuinely have no idea what it is and it's being thrown around a lot. Actually, can we get a definition of fighting game too?
>EVO would die without Smash Hardly. It was doing fine without it and was growing even after Smash was dropped initially. Street Fighter and Marvel pretty much carries it.
Sebastian Collins
>it doesn't have life bars, has platforms, has items You're right, but it also contains a distilled set of fundamental fighting game concepts, like the attack/block/grab triangle, the importance of spacing and footsies, whiff punishing, zoning, and so on and so on.
To try to say that it doesn't even contain fighting game elements at the very least would be disingenuous, and would only go to show how little you actually know about them.
Julian Reyes
>It's another thread where a person who's only ever played Street Fighter, and probably not even any other Capcom fighter, let alone fighters from other companies, tries to be elitist
James Hall
I am now 2 for 31 in SFV, what do I do to defend myself on wakeup? I get pummeled there. I've been playing Cammy and after all day I've started to win rounds but still lose whole matches, I make sure to rematch as many players as will accept it to try and learn more from fighting them. Does anybody have any good tips? I've watched a few videos on youtube about Cammy's ins and outs but I'm having trouble applying pressure to opponents but keeping myself alive. How do I punish an enemy's wakeup and how do I defend myself on wakeup?
Easton Mitchell
>Footsies Smash has footsies? What? Isn't footsies when the players are tip-toeing back and forth trying to get a poke hit confirm? Not sure if that's relevant to Smash. You're thinking of general spacing, I think.
Blake Young
The Evo of today is not the same Evo of the early 2000s. You can't really compare them.
Levi Flores
Smash, especially Melee, definitely has footsies. Melee makes it easier by allowing you to wavedash in very short distances, and without changing the direction you're facing. You'll often see this used by Marth players to get just the right spacing for tipped attacks.
Josiah Perry
ELSA AND ANNA
Liam Hill
It's still EVO and fighting games are still popular. Dropping Smash wouldn't kill EVO. It'd have detrimental short-term effects, but it'd be fine in the end.
Can someone answer the question ''What defines fighting game?'' already? Seems there are a lot of experts in the thread.
Benjamin Morgan
Does it really matter?
I like Guilty Gear, Street Fighter, Melty Blood, Marvel, Mortal Kombat, King of Fighters, Samurai Showdown and several others. I also like Power Stone and Smash Brothers. Does the definition really mater?
Ethan Collins
Smash is a fighting game, however, it's so unique that it became it's own genre.
Ian Miller
Though I guess that kinda does fall under the realm of general spacing. Whatever.
Colton Hughes
Nobody cares is smash is a fighting game fgcmonkey, melee has surpassed all fighter games anyway
Ps Evo would be dead without smash
Isaiah Campbell
>just because he used the word "fighting" doesn't mean he said it was one
You just said it yourself, he used the word "fighting". Wouldn't that mean he called it one, or is there some super secret meaning under that word that I'm missing?
Also, "it's not like traditional fighting games" does not entirely rule out it being a fighting game, it rules out it being a traditional one.
Xavier Torres
It's an arena fighter Arena fighters are actually a genre in Japan Like that one dynasty warriors fighting game or jump stars for the ds
That said who the fuck cares, series has gotten worse with the mini game bs. I want Smash Bros back at Hal labs, fuck Sakurai and his so called team sora
Daniel Diaz
let's change your post to illustrate how retarded you are
>it doesn't have bunnyhopping, platformed levels, has limited number of weapons you can hold You're right, but it also contains a distilled set of arena shooter concepts, like the jump/shooting/3d triangle, the importance of accuracy and speed, knowing when to use weapons, zoning, and so on and so on.
To try to say that it doesn't even contain arena shooter elements at the very least would be disingenuous, and would only go to show how little you actually know about them.
whoa tf2 is an arena shooter like quake and UT!! I mean it literally is shooting inside of an arena guys !!!!! :^))))))
Dominic Butler
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Gabriel Reyes
>You'll often see this used by Marth players to get just the right spacing for tipped attacks. >Spacing Again, I think you're just referring to spacing, not footsies. >It refers to a situation where both players are outside of combo range and attack each other with long-range, generally safe attacks (pokes). The ultimate goal is to control the flow of the match, bait the opponent into committing errors, and punish everything. Alright, so. It's basically just HBox.
Logan Cook
I went to a con recently that sponsored tournaments.All the real fighters got to share a room while Smash was quarantined to its own section in a room on the other side of the center. It smelled like shit in there and one of the Smash babies completely dilapidated the stick of a GC controller in a fit of rage, kek.
Aaron King
Evo would be abundantly fine if melee left, but thanks for playing into OP's stereotype and making all of us fans look bad.
Christian Bennett
But, TF2 is an arena shooter, user. >Fast-paced >Aerial combat >Vertical designs >Heavy use of projectile weapons Basically the bread and butter of an arena shooter. It also features classes and is team-based.
Blake Myers
It's a party game that, when played under certain conditions, is highly skilled based and incredibly deep mechanics akin to a traditional fighting game
Chase Murphy
They really are as autistic as the minecraft community
Isaiah Nguyen
Define party game or stop using the term already.
Brandon Rogers
>jump/shooting/3d triangle ???
>comparing one subset of shooters to another subset of shooters If I were trying to argue that Smash is an airdashing anime fighter, you'd totally have me. But I'm not. Smash exists within the genre of fighting games, much like TF2 and Quake/UT exist within the genre of shooting games.
Julian Bailey
no, it isn't an arena shooter- features of arena shooters don't have loadouts and classes nor 2 weapons at a time, etc, it's nothing like an arena shooter
what's the point of classifying anything at all, when autists like you will try to use sophistry to rewrite everything? language literally has no meaning then when you can just rewrite words to include casual baby team FPS like tf2 as arena FPS, and casual baby party games like smash as hardcore fighting games to try and ride their coattails and reputation as being hardcore games
it's like going to the shmup community and saying this:
>Hey fellow shmup fans! I've loved shoot em ups ever since I played overwatch and grand theft auto! xDDD I never liked touhou and rtype and dodonpachi those are too hard for me but I love gta, it's a 3d shoot em up, you are "shooting them up" by shooting people with your guns!
and taking over shoot em up meetups and getting them to remove gradius and dodonpachi and replace them with grand theft auto and overwatch
there is a reason why you are hated- everyone knows what a fighting game is and when they think of one they think of one, just like when people talk about shoot em ups you know they mean gradius and rtype and touhou and dodonpachi- stop trying to weasel your way into our events and ruin them
Ryan Gonzalez
defense on wakeup: unless you're against a grappler, downback is your friend; if someone seems REALLY dedicated to throwing you, you can start backdashing, jumping, or hitting fast (3-4f) buttons applying pressure: from midrange poke with mk; if you can get in close, mp->hp is a good frame trap to start with that's safe on block, and once you've conditioned them to block it consistently you can start doing mp->throw
disclaimer: I'm a barely-bronze shitter, but this is what's worked for me decently so far
Asher Hernandez
You are arguing against people in your head at this point. But, sure, I'll play. You seem to know your shit.
Define arena shooter.
Julian Harris
lifebars, platforms, and items arent related to whether or not you are fighting in a fighting game. Shooting people is not fighting in the physical sense, but in the sense of conflict. Thats just you being retarded there. Sakurai never said that. Smash bros was originally called Dragon King: The Fighter Its more popular than most fighting games. SF and MVC are the only exceptions.
Lucas Hernandez
>It's a smash isn't a fighting game episode
Tyler Mitchell
Street Fighter definitely is but I don't think MvC is even as popular as melee.
Julian Jenkins
>Sakurai never said that
Robert Gutierrez
The only real fighting game is UFC
Aaron Morgan
...
Easton Foster
>fighting games are a clearly defined genre, everybody knows what makes a fighting game a fighting game >smash doesn't follow any of these conventions >B-B-B-BUT YOU FIGHT EACH OTHER IT'S A FIGHTING GAME
Hunter Peterson
That's not a fighting game because it doesn't have life bars. The only fighting game is street fighter.
Nathaniel Richardson
Health bars are not a fighting game convention.
Jacob Nelson
No Street Fighter is a fantasy brawler.
Samuel Harris
Oh, boy. This one again.
>you literally do not fight to beat the other player(s) you try to push eachother off the ledge There's stamina mode for this and enclosed arenas. >Smash has very basic and simple mechanics that simply do not compare to fighting games It has different mechanics that are in no way simple and basic. >no overheads, high, mids or lows It does though. It has those things. Overheads are arguable though. >No blocking It does. It's just not left/right blocking, which I guess negates the overheads. >Counter hits, hit stun, properties It has those things too.
So, if these are the things that are required for a game to be labeled a fighting game, and Smash does have all of them(save for maybe overheads) while still having a lot of platforming elements, wouldn't that make Smash a platform fighter?
Also, how come no one is capable of defining fighting game in this thread?
Lincoln Morales
Cool beans user. Good luck.
Easton Price
Can you show me a fighting game that doesn't feature traditional health bars?
Or a fighting game that doesn't have multi-input specials?
Or a fighting game without corners?
Or a fighting game without dedicated combo chains?
Cameron Wilson
percentages and knocking each other out is so unbalanced it would never appear in a real fighting game. >two players at high percentage hit each other >whoever was slightly closer to the edge of the screen loses doesn't matter if he was technically more skilled or not
Brandon Lewis
Of course it's not. You can't button mash to win in smash.
Juan Jenkins
>guy just combos you to death and there's nothing you can do about it >he just hit first, not necessarily more skilled
Jeremiah Perez
horribly out of context. Not even worth expounding upon
Daniel Edwards
>Can you show me a fighting game that doesn't feature traditional health bars? Bushido Blade. Damn fun game too because of it.
>Or a fighting game that doesn't have multi-input specials? >Or a fighting game without corners? >Or a fighting game without dedicated combo chains? Nope. But, Smash Bros does have all these things.
Carson Robinson
>more skilled >cant even maintain and advantageous position Its clear whos more skilled. At your scrub level the more skilled player losing there is like losing to a button masher is a traditional fighter.
Asher Rodriguez
Why do fans of fighting games always need to open with bait?
Luis Morgan
>Can you show me a fighting game that doesn't feature traditional health bars? >Or a fighting game that doesn't have multi-input specials? Rising Thunder
>Or a fighting game without corners? Soul Calibur (ring outs)
>Or a fighting game without dedicated combo chains? Killer Instinct (2013)
Christian King
...
Easton Foster
I guess 3D fighters aren't fighting games.
James Morris
It definitely has it's own merits as a subgenre, but the creator is a clown. This really. I like SF, GG, BB, hell even Vsav and I still like Melee too. Just play what you like.
David Allen
Why can't fighting game fans define their own favourite genre?
Josiah Rodriguez
That's just Sup Forums, try making a civil thread about a game, it doesn't work. You have to incite conflict, and in the desperate self validating need to beat each other in internet arguments fans of game and anti-fans of game will fight each other and bring out incredible depths of knowledge about the topic all in pursuit of the epic btfo. Nobody wants to read each other blog about video games. They want to hear each other call games shit and comeback and try to counter as to why they're not shit.
Austin Mitchell
Literally the only fighting game is Street Fighter. If any game is even slightly different it's not a fighting game.
Ryan Myers
Whether melee is a fighting game or not (who cares) at least it doesn't have a low skill roof unlike other fighting games.
Levi Cook
smashbabby pls
nobody's saying KoF and guilty gear aren't fighting games, because they are- your game is not a fighting game, it's a casual trash game that is trying to leech off of us
Landon Carter
Nope, KI does have dedicated combo chains, but you can freeform FROM them.
This is correct. Fuck sloggy-ass 3D fighters as well as Smash.
Logan Fisher
Leech off of what retard, Smash is the most popular fighting game. Also with the most sales ever besides Tekken.
Ayden Lopez
>Smash is more popular Makes you think...
Carter Hernandez
>no it's not, it doesn't have life bars, has platforms, has items
Noah Harris
Meanwhile, SFV got 11 times as many viewers as Smash at Evo this year.
Noah Ward
Nope. KI has openers, which are single, designated special moves, from which you can then freeform. There's no required sequence to get there.
Brody Powell
>casual trash game
So it's like SF5?
William Adams
SF-likes should be actually called "Hitbox Overlapping Games" because regardless of the animations the gameplay is actually about overlapping hitboxes on your opponent.
Landon Fisher
Smashbabbies are THIS mad
Nicholas Johnson
Stamina mode is literally health bars.
What now?
Tyler Powell
No it didn't I was in the thread on here during EVO and everyone in the thread said Smash got more viewers. One google search brings this.
Super Smash Bros. Melee (Sunday) 6:50 - 9:20 219,125 main channel / 232,900 total twitch viewers Street Fighter V (Sunday) 10:10 - 1:15 182,716 main channel / 213,927 total twitch viewers
Blake Young
You will literally say any fighting game is not a fighting game besides Street Fighter. I've even seen Mortal Kombat called not a fighting game, as well as Skullgirls.
Mason Kelly
Fighting game--a video game genre where the player controls an on-screen character and engages in close combat with an opponent. These characters tend to be of similar power and fight matches that consist of several rounds, which take place in an arena. Players must master techniques such as blocking, counter-attacking, and chaining together sequences of attacks known as "combos". Since the early 1990s, most fighting games allow the player to execute special attacks by performing specific button combinations. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_game) the player controls an on-screen character (see pic)
These characters tend to be of similar power and fight matches consisting of several rounds (ssbwiki.com/Stock) which take place in an arena. (ssbwiki.com/Stage) Players must master techniques such as blocking, (ssbwiki.com/Shield) counter-attacking, and chaining together sequences of attacks known as "combos". (ssbwiki.com/Combo)
>One was broadcast on tv and the other wasn't >Still tries to compare them
Are you retarded.
Blake Anderson
cont. Since the early 1990s, most fighting games allow the player to execute special attacks by performing specific button combinations. (ssbwiki.com/Special_move)
Well, what do you know? Smash is a fighting game. 5 Aerials. 4 Specials. 3 Smash attacks. 3 Tilts (side THEN A, etc.). Jab (and consecutive jab combos). Shield. Roll, spot-dodge, air dodge. Grab. 4 different directional throws. That's at least over 20 moves, depending on whether or not you count dodging/shielding. Each of these have different properties for every character. They vary in terms of range, priority, speed, and various special properties. What's more, the super smash brothers franchise feature some of the few fighting games that don't go down the same way every single time. Traditional fighters use speed bumps in the form of complex inputs, and for the most part combos are resolved the same way every single time. If you have the muscle memory, all you need is timing and spacing.
Alexander Martin
Was it autism?
Jonathan Allen
And probably 40% of those were people bitching about "why are them dang video games on my real sports network"
I'm not trying to say that refutes or reinforce's anyone's point, I just thought it was really funny to watch on the day it went down.
Luis Davis
Maybe there's a reason one wasn't broadcast on TV. Broadcasting videogames is risky enough, imagine if someone turned on ESPN and saw fucking Mario and Kirby fighting.
Jayden Powell
I think He's counting when they put SFV on Espn 2 it's a totally fair comparison, right?
Matthew Baker
IS Xenoverse 2 nit a fighting game because it is more open than SF and has items?
