Is this really the best stealth game ever made?

Is this really the best stealth game ever made?

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yes

youtube.com/watch?v=SzXatp644ME

Yeah. It does shit with sound design etc that modern stealth games don't even bother attempting.

It's incredibly sad in lots of ways that this game is like 15 years old, but if you just updated the graphics it would basically still be the state of the art in stealth games

In all honesty, i have played alot of stealth games including thief but this one is always the one i come back too when i think about best stealth games.

This.

No. To be perfectly honest Thief as a stealth series is overrated.

The Thief trilogy is fantastic and well worth playing, but ironically they work better as tomb raiding dark indiana jones spookfest grave robbing sims. Or maybe even caste exploration with weird achitecture exploration sims, than as actual stealth games.

The stealth is hilariously broken in 1. It's better in 2 but still not perfect. Ironically 3 has some of the best actual stealth mechanics in the series but a lot of other parts of the game where a let down.

All three are improved with mods and 3 is made playable with mods.

>Knock out guard
>Carry him away
>Chief patrolling by
>Notices a missing guard
>Sends out one of his pawns to investigate

Damn. Now I wish Thief games did this, it was too easy to just blackjack an entire map since guard captains would never notice missing patrols or guards, they'd only react to bodies and they were easily hidable in a dark patch or a nearby room.

The blackjack is also amazingly overpowered it's like the tranq dart from MGS2 but even more OP. Literally one hit kills pretty much. And yeah I know they are non canonical in game kills, but in terms of the mechanics it's the same thing but this time with no red blood patches to clean up so it's even easier that just killing guards with a sword. Guards never wake up either and they don't report in with other guards like say MGS3 did.

Thief's stealth was definitly great for it's day, and the original was one of the 3 inventors of modern stealth. But outside of sound design (and this is only because Creative is sitting on and mothballing the soundcard tech to do it) I would say most of Thief's stealth mechanics have been improved on by other stealth games since.

Level design is another matter though. Most of what makes Thief good is level design rather than mechanics. Thief still has some of the greatest levels ever made in gaming.

You mean best game ever made period. Thinking of Thief as just a 'stealth game' is wrong user

1 is better.

That's not chaos theory

I just want to add on to this, that the greatest mechanic from Thief is actually it's movement and grappling/climbing mecahnics. Not it's stealth mechanics.

It's fucking god tier. It is such a joy to explore in Thief because of how fucking natural and perfect the movement mechanics are. Jumping and climbing and grabbing ledges is so fucking fluid and makes you feel like you are in perfect control of your character at all times. It's just a shame they removed the b-hop exploit in 2.

I really dislike it when knocking people out means they can't be stirred awake again if someone finds them. It's like you said, a kill without blood.

At least you won't blackjack the special helmet guards later on.

Thief 1 had better level design.

Yeah 2 really improved the stealth by having helmet guards that could not be blackjacked. It diversified the knockout mechanics. Regular guards, blackjack, helmets, you had to use a rare gas bomb/arrow or just be forced to sneak around them. Then the robots you had to waste 2 water arrows on their boiler.

But yeah, knocked out guards will never be woken, it will just alert any guard who finds him.

The stealth in the original was completely broken because it was a purely blackjack fest. But then all the non stealth levels with beast enemies and pure exploration saved it in the end. And I ended up liking those crazy spooky levels better than the actual fixed stealth in 2.

3 was great though too. The fact that a lot of guards now carried portable torches meant no more hiding in this little baked in dark patch of textures as a guard walks past a meter away and doesn't notice me. Also the mechanics of how to approach a guard from behind are much harder. Flash bombs aren't a free knockout anymore and you can set traps with oil diversifying the ways to knock out guards.

Don't forget Double Agent OG Xbox Version

The 360 version was the shit one made by a different dev

yes, thought I'm not sure if I prefer 1 or 2
both are amazing

Yeah, and the first is the second best.

Thief is really well-designed and has fantastic attention to detail but is pretty easy

If it were up to me all stealth games would run on European Extreme rules because there's no enjoyable middle ground between "guards are easy to run away from" and "being caught is an immediate death sentence", considering most steath fans play with self-imposed rules in the first place

How can this be true, when all the best levels (Thief 2) have mansions to heist?

>There will never be a first person stealth game with extremely fluid movement made for mice and keyboards and modern technology like physics for everything and dynamic lighting to hide in while avoiding streamlined gameplay.

God tier


Down in the Bonehoard
Sepulchre of the Sinistral (mod)
Trail of Blood 2 (mod)


Great tier


Assassins
The Sword
The Haunted Cathedral
The Lost City
Into the Maw of Chaos
Trail of Blood
Life of the Party
Kidnap
Saint Edgar's Eve
Stonemarket Plaza & Proper & Keeper Library (hub)
Old Quarter & Fort Ironwood (hub)


Good Tier


Break from Cragscleft Prison
The Mage Towers
Return to the Cathedral
Escape
Framed
Eavesdroping
Blackmail
Precious Cargo
Casing the Joint
End of the Bloodline
Into the Pagan Sanctuary
Of Brethren and Betrayers
Robbing the Cradle
Still Life With Blackjack
Docks & Abysmal Gale (hub)
Auldale & Gamall's Lair (hub)
Bloodstone Prison (mod)


Okay tier


Lord Baffords Manor
Thieves Guild
Undercover
Strange Bedfellows
Running Interference
Shipping and Receiving
Ambush
First City Bank & Trust
Trace the Courier
Sabotage at Soulforge
House of the Widow Moira
The Sunken Citadel
Killing Time
South Quarter & Pavelock Prison (hub)
Lady Whitman's Disease (mod)


Low tier


A Keepers Training
Song of the Caverns
Masks
Checking Inn Cashing Out
Returning a Favor (mod)
Lord Edmund Entertains (mod)
The Saint of Redmound (mod)

>The Sword
>Life of the Party
>First City Bank & Trust
>Not God Tier
Lol wtf am I reading

"le tomb raiding game" opinion tier list.

>Tfw Bethesda will never license this and have Machine Games make a sequel on Id Tech 6

aka, correct opinions.

Isn't Starbreeze still alive? Why can't they just make it?

Doesn't Vin Diesel partially own the IP or something as well?

The lead developers left and joined Bethesda to make Wolfenstein.

Not even a best Thief game, so hardly.

I sort of agree. It's this as well as the sound and level design that set it above other stealth games for me. The actual stealth and ai aren't perfect but I forgive some flaws since they were trying new things. Not to mention few stealth games allow for custom missions.

>masks
>low tier
>first city bank & trust
>okay tier
>down in the bonehoard
>only original thief mission that's god tier

fuck off

aka, shit taste*

ftfy

best stealth game? no
best game ever? probably yes
youtube.com/watch?v=jPqwDGXxLhU

do you mean "overpowered" when you say "broken", or do you mean that stealth is just glitchy?

imo the guards in thief are too blind in the dark and movement should REALLY have a penalty if you are in front of someone in a dark room. moving DOES make your light gem light up a bit in pitch-black areas, as does drawing your sword, but it should affect the light gem stronger.

>Masks
>Anything but shit tier

It's literally Casing the Joint with a different objective.

Casing the Joint is alright but reusing a map for a slightly different mission was retarded.

holy fuck i left #fortune on lmao

Overpowered. And I agree with your point about the light gem. Stealth really is just to easy in 1 and 2.

Agree with the movement and I highly recommend Dishonored as the only game to surpass Thief in that regard.

I liked Dishonored's movement a lot, but it was extremely quick, and Thief's climbing feels a lot slower and more human-like (like it would be cuz Garrett isn't really that strong)

True. What I really like about it is how you can squeeze into tight spaces, like under tables, through short windows, etc. It feels very natural. Shame Dishonored 2 made leaning so awkward. I also think climbing feels more consistent. There always seem to be ledges that take a few tries in Thief.

I just wish Dishonored had a lean forward.

>lean forward

How often is this used in games though? What was it for? Looking over ledges?

I never really used it in Thief since it would waste a good keybinding so I'd put something else closer to WASD and have lean forwards to far away to ever remember to use.

Yeah, it was for looking over ledges. Giving it it's own key was definitely a poor move on LGS. It should have been pressing E+Q or whatever your lean keys are at the same time.

I generally found that just turning slightly to the side then normally leaning was just as effective for looking over ledges.

I think Styx also has a pretty great stealth system with smart guards, it's third person though.

It works fine and maybe makes lean forward superfluous. But lean forward makes edging closer to the ledge more natural even if not really more efficient.