MMO's are patrician

MMO's are patrician

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MMO games are the greatest failure to utilize genre potential in all the history of our hobby.

Maybe back in the early-mid 2000s before the chinks took over the genre.

spend ~100 hours getting to level cap
another ~100 hours gearing up
all so you can beg on your fucking hands and knees for someone to take you along so you can learn how to enjoy the real content (endgame)

sure is patrician in here

If endgame is the only content worth playing, it's a bad MMO.

so pretty much every MMO that's been released for the past 10 years

got it

Just about.

Noone wants to social no more. How do you even make friends in mmos in the (((current year)))?

Reminder that this is currently the best MMO out right now

isn't it just a clusterfuck of concepts so drunk on the idea of 'freedom' and 'build diversity' to the point where everyone's character ends up being essentially the same?

>casual fucking WoW trash
i would say get on my level, but that's impossible to do at this point because of what sony did to EQ after they got it from verant

This. I'm playing FF14 and it's such an anti-social game. Look at Linkshells. You don't even know they exist. There's no way to look at a bunch of linkshells and see "hmm I'll join this one that is about hunts, this one is about raiding,etc" Then you've got party finder,etc. No point in talking to anyone, at all. EVERYTHING is instanced as fuck.

I don't know why I play this shit at all.

I just want an old school mmo like everquest and wow vanilla, but with more modern quality i.e graphics

The biggest problem with ESO is the way it handles resource-scaling. Meaning, in order to get the most out of your abilities, you MUST maximize the stat they draw off of, ignoring all others. This change killed hybrid builds completely, and caused a terrible stat bloat in order for "finer adjustments" in gear, when the simpler system worked better. Make no mistake, he's right. It's one of the best offerings on the market right now, but it is still one or two major overhauls away from being the gem it could be.

>I just want an old school mmo like everquest
that will never happen anymore because casual mmos will make shit tons more money

I was about to give up on mmos, and then ragnarok mobile got released... I think we could see a new era for mmos, it's even more casual then the casualized shit that pc mmos turned into, but it's actually fun again for some reason.

You have something like a 3-4 hour range to gain xp, after that mobs start giving 1xp. I don't feel like no lifing mmos again, but 2-3 hours a day it's fine, or you can always juggle alts if you're desperate or something.

Sounds right

I just wish they figure out a way to make group content relevant and make it so you're actually happy to see someone where you are. Instead if someone is ever next to you he is basically stealing your mobs and they don't want to group, or they're already in a group and they won't invite you to make things go faster, they rather fight for the spawns and fuck you up.

GW2 sort of had the idea right with dynamic events, but the actual events were garbage, and you still had to earn contribution so you fought agains the other players to get the best rewards from the events. It ended up horribly as all the loot was generic but that's another story. I just wish I could venture into some hard as fuck cavern in the middle of nowhere hardly progressing, and then find another guy doing the same and just group and actually have a good time together instead of hating each other, then possibly see if our schedules match and do it again another time or go and venture into another hard area together. But instead even if that were to happen, one of us would play more and over level the other, and there's no point in ever grouping with someone like 5+ levels above you in most games.

You rarely ever fight against each other for events in GW2, grazing a mob is enough to get contribution for yourself, and if you group up you need only attack a mob once to share your entire group contribution.

yes

Sure now when there's like 20 times less players camping the same event

I'm talking like early on, maybe the first 2 months, once people figured out there was like only 1 event worth shit per zone or maybe less, even landing that 1 strike to a single mob was difficult, you had the staff guardians spamming that giant fan attack and everyone else doing their thing, so mobs would be dead or half health even before they spawn.

Anyways it's was stupid because no event was challenging, it was just a huge blob of players fighting for tags, or camping the stupid dragons just to get 2 greens and 1 blue or whatever that were worth nickels.

I never bothered to play it again, but from what I see it's the same shit, except with their new hardcore end game with weekly lockouts like every other mmo nowadays.

Have you tried playing the Division?

youtu.be/nvK8fua6O64

>The Cancer genre that spawned both monthly subscription and F2P
>Most restricitive open world games ever
>Most non-interactive multiplayer games ever.

MMOs were a fuckin mistake. Im sure those spawned more cancer forms that i'm not even aware of.

negative
Am I missing something good from there? all I've seen are griefing videos, and people bragging about owning kids 1v3.

A friend was super hyped and kept saying he was the best sniper ever, and then just quit in like a week, but didn't really ask him to give me his review, so I didn't bother to research more about it.

> wrong title

MMO's are patrici-

I'm waiting on Camelot Unchained

But not backing it because I'm not an idiot.

My friend bought it for me since it's on sale on GMG. Had a good enough time so far that I got it for another one of my friends and I'm dragging him in to it.


I digress however.. I'm sure you've at least heard about the Dark Zone system the game has. It's an area that has PvP enabled, much tougher enemies, and much better loot. Anything good you get in there, you need to take to extraction sites so it can be taken away to be decontaminated. What's neat is that any players in your vicinity that are not in party will hear your voice directionally.

If you're a lone guy and you see a party that's using in-game voice, you can listen in and see if you can pick up whether they'll kill you on sight.

In the case of my friend and I, we went in to a pretty tough area of the Dark Zone for our first excursion and kept getting our asses kicked when we'd try to extract some of our gear.

There was a few times however, where we'd stumble upon lone people trying to secure those extraction points. Sometimes they would die and all their gear they were trying to bring out would drop. We would leave it, continue to secure the area, and when I noticed people coming back for their stuff, I'd immediately say hi and tell them we're just interested in getting our shit out of here, then give them a party invite. I'm the one with the smile, but my friend has his sniper rifle pointed at their head from another unseen angle.

A few times this has resulted in some really short team adhoc parties where we clear some extraction zones, gather supply drops, then go our separate ways.

I've got one guy I've added to my friends list that seems to have a similar schedule as us, and we all work well together. Did a bunch of missions way below our level using teamwork and guts.

It's pretty magical.

If you have any experience with controlled aggression, the combat will be very very appealing for you as well.

>id a bunch of missions way below our level using teamwork and guts
I meant to say way above, how embarrassing.

MMO's are inherently bad and the only people who play them are brain dead mongoloids who think that big numbers are stats make a game hard.

...

Someone make Silkroad Online 2 so I can fucking die already.

..By not playing queue/instance/cross-realm simulators.

Simple -- just make single mobs challenging.

I get the whole dark zone mess, yeah I knew about it even before the game came out since they mentioned it in the trailers or whatever.

But is that the end game? like you're supposed to go there once you're all godly and op? or is it optional? What if I don't give a fuck about being griefed and gang banged over and over again? is there any other content relevant enough to ignore the dark zone?

What about DLC is it mandatory if you want to be competitive? And how significant is the dark zone loot? like you go in there, and how long do you need to grind there to get something worth a shit? and supposing you get out without being raped by 20 hobos trying to take your loot, how much of a boost do you get out of that? or is it mostly a currency thing?

It does sound appealing to have fun molesting loners, but other than this dark zone stories, I still don't see what's good about the game. I mean afaik it flunked kinda hard, after a month of it being released didn't see a single thread about it here. How long you been playing it and how long do you think you'll keep playing it? as in do you have long term goals or you get the best loot in the zone and that's it, your char is pretty much done?

Sorry you don't have to answer all that, but thanks for sharing.

>""""""""""beg""""""""""""
some of us are good at video games, user.

FFXI is making so much money recently they are thinking of doing another expansion. Player base keeps rising since they uncasualised endgame.

People want old school.

>I mean afaik it flunked kinda hard, after a month of it being released didn't see a single thread about it here. How long you been playing it and how long do you think you'll keep playing it? as in do you have long term goals or you get the best loot in the zone and that's it, your char is pretty much done?
I'll start with this. I haven't done much under the hood research, but I can at least share observations. Like I said, wasn't around for release, but what my buddy says is that the dark zone was originally in a pain in the ass because there was no level brackets, so people could muscle around others based soley on stats. Now, you see people 3-4 levels in your range so it's a bit more fair, whether you plan on teaming up or bullying.

From what I can tell so far, there doesn't actually seem to be any story related content in the Darkzone, it's just an extra dangerous place. There's a fuckton of AI enemies inside, they have different factions, and you can draw them in to conflicts with each other, and then step in as a third, or sometimes fourth party to finish off the rest. The one thing I noticed is that it does seem like the gear you get in the Darkzone is very good for its level, but it only really feels average against the AI guys, until you go back to the main content. Even if you're unlucky and get shitty gear from drops, you can spend Darkzone currency to buy shit. You definitely get a boost from this gear, but something one level higher (or sometimes even the same level) that you get in the "normal" areas may be just as useful to you.

From what I can tell so far though, the Darkzone is completely optional storywise. I got one side mission that basically told me to step inside and check it out, that's it. All the other missions you do in order to further the story, develop the central hub, etc etc is outside of the Darkzone. There's matchmaking if you like, but I much prefer making friends in the Darkzone by speaking softly with a big stick

...

FFXI was the only truly good MMO to have existed

There are some good, older MMOs too user, they're all dead together with our hope for the genre, though.

blame todd and consoles

The hub area you develop is very well done. You get resources to improve the medical, security, and utilities (heating, power, etc), in the building, which also gives you abilities and bonuses.

What's great is as the game goes on, you do more missions, etc, more people will come to live inside with everyone else, instead of like animals. Some of the conversations you can overhear are very well written, though naturally lots of them are depressing. I feel like they put a lot of thought in to how people would react in situations with no hope, it really shows through.

It's great being able to see a community develop in such adverse conditions though, especially when you get to contribute to it a whole bunch by essentially being a murderhobo. In this sense, it really feels like Dwarf Fortress, except instead of being some kind of guiding force, you're a legendary axedwarf and you'll get things done that way, if you understand what I mean.

I haven't looked in to the DLC too much, most of it sounds like new missions and new weapon types that are balanced for those really competitive types, but at 15 hours in I haven't really done anything except dress up with some of the clothes I got from it.

The combat in this game however, is exceptional in my opinion, since I'm usually playing in groups of two or more. Lots of flanking, suppressing, communicating. You can surprise AI enemies in the middle of combat if you take in to account where their attention is.

Sometimes they react with something very close to fear of death when you get up in their face.


I'm not quite sure actually what the end-game is yet in the Division. I imagine I'll be finishing whatever story they have, and fully upgrading the hub. No idea how long this'll be though so I can't really help you here. I don't think I will be racking up 200 hours of PvP experience, if the game doesn't suddenly end on me I feel like I'll probably end up with 50-60 hours. I don't really fast travel.

>That picture

Do people still fall for the King Fu Panda meme? Mists was fantastic.

end game is literally diablo 3. get into dark zone or play daily/weekly bounty for dem loot and build dev decide on.
combat is enjoyable on normal and absolute min-max keyboard warrior cookie cutter build on hard. level design is literally a line leading toward obligatory arenas. dark zone is the only fun thing in it, if not for the pvp then for the non-stop high level mobs spawn who also fight with each other. But you cant level up inside dark zone so you still have to slog through the boring tedious far cry wannabe main game,

>end game is literally diablo 3
Ah, that's unfortunate. How long does it take for a man to get to that?

I FUCKING MISS CITY OF HEROES

I want to go back

thanks for your inputs

I'm still on the fence about it, but I'll keep an eye on it for discounts or whatever.

not long at all. About 50-60 hr if you solo/pug. With a group it take 20 hr to blitz through main quests and side quests to reach max lvl.

I started playing Lineage 2 in 2007(it was Interlude, I believe), and back then bots and goldbuyers had already shat the game up, but the game was still somewhat playable, however by the time Kamael came up Catacombs and Necropolis became completely filled with bots and you had to find a way to kill them to earn your little room and earn your 0.01% exp with each mob.
I played until Gracia final and never got to enjoy any of endgame content.

No worries. All I really wanted to share is that I actually feel inclined to group up with random people I meet which is more than I've felt in recent MMOs I've played. Sorry for the walls of text.

>About 50-60 hr if you solo/pug
That's alright then. I've got a lot of games to play and shit to do so I don't think I'll want to sit on the endgame for too long, especially with the way you make it sound.

MMO is fun when you play as kid/teen.

When you are an adult, you just don't feel the passion anymore.

I don't understand why fucking companies can't have some sort of player moderator program to prevent this stupid rampant influx of bots on every mmo ever. Like there's so many people who would love to have the power to ban bots just to feel important, they would waste their life making the game better without any sort of revenue from it. I mean if their reason to not have active gm's 24/7 is monetary.... that's such an easy way to fix it.

I know it could lead into abuse and what not, but it would be better than having 50 bots in a single map stealing everything from the real players. I'm tired of this shit and I see it over and over and over again. Fuck I remember in wildstar there was a bot in the same spot for like 3 months, in Tree of Savior the character with the most money in the world was a very well known bot and it stayed in the game for 8 months or so, I've seen teleporting farmers in so many games and reporting them doesn't change anything....

ugh I know this isn't the place to rant, but fuck out of all the problems a game can have, I think that's one of the easiest to fix, and no one would complain about the Chinese bots being banned except the Chinese farmers themselves.

>MMO is fun when you play as kid/teen.
Fun, because the kids/teens that play MMOs today seem anything but passionate about them.

This.

and I get sad about it every fucking day.

It's not even the kind of thing you can waste 5-10 years of your life to undo, MMOs take so much fucking money and manpower it's ridiculous yet al these MMOS still fucking suck despite the fact that a proper one that just listened to the general complaints ALL MMOs get these days could make literal fucking dumpsters of money.

Did you honestly think something different?

Literally the number one biggest issues grandest fucking clusterfuck of modern MMOs is the fact they are designed around end game and not journey gameplay.

>made it so you cant take down even a single mob by yourself
Fixed

Because modern day culture of being overly pessimistic about everything is 'cool'.

Yes, even adults still fall into the meme. It's dumb, and it shows very clearly why Sup Forums is shit, it's full of faggots who act like everything or even a minor flaw about something ruins it, instead of finding the good things.

Being gay and whining that you can't get your childhood nostalgia back is retarded and shows a real lack of mental development.You don't differ one bit from some old fart who complains that 'back in my day we would just ride our bikes everywhere until mom called us in for dinner!" meme. God I hate all of you fucking weak willed sadsaps 'muh depression' fags that infest Sup Forums with your negativity.

>Multiple million dollars poured into every MMO, even though most fail
>Best and brightest in game development along with the best teams attempt new ideas to make a great game and still most fail

If it's so easy, why don't you tell us then genius?

Yeah, I'm sure nobody would abuse that at all ever.

>even though most fail
This is entirely and absolutely false

Just because you dont like a game like TOR or ESO doesnt mean it failed, both games made their publishers a metric fuckton of cash as planned.

>Sandbox MMOs are patrician
ftfy

Then how do you make your perfect MMO? You said yourself how easy it would be.

Im not the idiots your replying to, im just pointing out your blind hate =/= failure on part of an MMO

Nearly all of them are enormous successes because they work off the top 5% who spend more money than the whole other 95%

>point a simple, but objective flaw on your argument
>this level of unexpected mad happens.

Yeah, and as dead as the patrician caste.

You're not going to give moderation powers to the first random pinoy that asks for it, there's people in the forums that have like 3k+ posts on shitty games. There's also streamers that literally making a living out of games, if they document all they do there's not much room for them to harm the game. They could at least have the power to temp ban like 10 accounts for 12 hours or whatever, and be flagged for review once the Korean overlords wake up or something.

As much harm as they can make, it would be less than having hundreds of bots stealing all the mobs, and all the gold sellers instantly remaking accounts without their gold sources being halted. I played one of those generic f2p games where the GM's were so incompetent and their tools so limited, that they couldn't ban players that had chineese names, they didn't have the ability to copy past the name or select them and ban them, the chinks had every chat channel under their control for weeks until the Korean dev patched something so they could right click the chink names.

I'm just saying, it's such a repetitive scene in every game I can remember, even big budget titles like Aion, couldn't avoid chat spam for months, gm's would show up like 2 times a day, and chat would slowdown maybe 1 or 2 hours but after that it was back to full gold seller spam for the rest of the day, it's a horrible symptom that no single dev seems to bother enough to prevent or fix until the game has lost a bunch of players already from the harm that's been done.

That would take a lot more than I could fit in one or even several posts, the inherent problems with MMOs are something you could write a series of books on.

To start off Sandbox v Themeparks is a pretty big problem, we need mixes of both, that's one of the biggest problems.

Static worlds (hey you did this quest for me, and you too, etc). is themepark's biggest problem, no impact.

Sandboxes on the other hand feel bland and boring because they're largely empty or dev time is spent on actual interactivity and gameplay so no time is spent on NPC development.

The largest problem however is usually monetary. You have HUGE overhead in most of these companies leading to them wanting: Founders Pack (cancer shit), Microtransactions (Too scared of LIGHT-convenience/vanity only not making enough so they go overboard), and monthly costs that are usually too high. ($10-15/mo when it should be closer to $7/mo in most cases)

Joining one of the best guilds on my server and clearing the latest content in WoW Legion makes me feel like a kid again.

The hard mode version of the new raid comes out in 2 days and I can't wait to start clearing it.

I agree with this. The 5 Linkshells I have are just remnants of old FC's / Statics I was in and a Selling LS that is literally just a reserve pool for incomplete selling parties.

During Alex 1 and 2 you actually needed a good FC or at the very least LS to clear them in a timely matter but people were PF'ing Alex Prime after a month and there really isn't anything outside of the current Raid Tier that you would want a group you can rely on for.

Still, it does FF Fanservice, Cute Girls and flashy effects better than any other MMO right now, I also found a comfy place full of elitist weebs so I shouldn't shittalk the game that much.

To add on

Crafting is fucking boring when it's available because there's no difference between them other than what text you clicked in 90% of MMOs, but people 'don't want minigames'.


A game needs to cater to all 4 archetypes of gamers and include them in the main gameplay itself not just as an afterthought.

Chat in game is more often than not terrible these days. One of the best chat systems in a game I had was way back in 2003~ (MapleStory), yet most games somehow just fucking get it wrong these days still, yet there are swathes of people who play MMOs primarily to socialize.

Crafting is boring yet there are hordes of people who play to primarily craft. No one enjoys clicking a number, then typing 1000 so you do it 1000 times, or better yet forcing you to go from a crafter to a market man who has to know the prices of everything and play the shit out of the AH to see profits.

Raids are boring AF 90% of the time as our bosses, it's either gimmick or 'run down their HP', you beat them once you beat them a thousand times, yet there are only ever so few in a game.

Probably the single handedly worst part of an MMO though is that time = power formula. It's a simple formula and it's why they do it, but in almost every case time invested in a character equals power. Very rarely will your skill come into play because MMOs have the lowest skill ceiling of almost any genre (outside of raids and that's not really skill as much as it is quick responses and memorization) [unless you're a healer than it's a lot more of it to the point of almost being a skill]
3

Not anymore they ain't! And they don't get a whole lot more pleb than yours.

A good MMO in my opinion would have challenge all of these.
A world that can be impacted by players but is at least partially pre-crafted, has meaningful and well placed NPCs/quest lines/dungeons/etc. PermaDeath(Inherit)/PvP because without it MMOs lack any punishment.
A well thought out longterm story that the world should tell, this should be loosely made so that huge changes made by characters won't completely derail it. Combat that isn't just bars but instead largely based on hit zones or such (Chivalry-ish), Less handholding in all aspects. Some form of immersive and skill based crafting system if crafting is included. No absolute safe zones or other stupid non-immersive/lore-proper areas (UO-style would work).

A lot of what it would take to make an MMO good is gated behind costs to invest into properly doing things like AI, hiring writers, people skilled at designing worlds, etc. A real serious MMO would probably cost a lot more than the ones you see now, the upfront cost would be (as in all cases) a huge risk so it would most likely need a monthly or one-time-buy model with a lot of ingame vanity items. Perhaps personal/guild crests, some 'unnatural' dyes, certain convenience options like larger starting pouch/stash (Attaineble through other means but simply convenience), UI redesigns, a monthly cost of $10/15/mo would probably be okay in this case if the one-time falls through. If it's Perma perhaps preset slots if you want different looks. Extra slots. Paying per life instead of monthly (like CoE). If it were realm based(Crowfall) could have larger 'personal/guild shards' or different layouts available to them as opposed to a basic one for the regulars.

One of the best MMOs I've played is Haven and Hearth, but it's something that will simply not be possible to consume by the majority, nor is it sustainable AS IS for a business model, but jorbtar just do it in their spare time still AFAIK.
All I'll write for now.

>People want old school.
Not possible now that FF11 has fallen into the 'endgame' trap. If they want it to be truly oldschool again they will have to dramatically raise the level cap, add a fucktonne of content, prevent Trust usage over level 100 to force people to party up again and make the game about the journey once more, removing the very concept of endgame.

All I'm going to say is.... I miss Age of Wushu, that game was the absolute fucking balls to the wall the most fun an mmo could provide during it's golden age. So sad the only relevant sandbox online game is Eve and BdO got casualized to shit.

Pirating in ArcheAge was fun as fuck as well, but the business model is pretty damn horrible and deserves to be burned and buried and condemned for all eternity.

That UI looks like shit.

It actually is. As said it has its issues, but they are implementing many changes from some time which are actually mostly a step in a right direction.

Also, I'd like to make a honourable mention of The Secret World, for having probably best written NPCs and (some) quests in MMOs that I've seen. Shame the combat is shit.

Which doesn't change the fact, that as said, MMOs are the biggest wasted potential genre in gaming, along with MOBA's.

>biggest wasted potential genre in gaming, along with MOBA's.

Where's the wasted potential in MOBAs? The fuck are you saying? You can't just say 'this X genre of game is wasted potential' when nothing about its potential has been wasted.

What I mean is, the basic idea is great. You have a lots of characters with different roles and abilities which grow stronger and stronger over the course of the game until you are powerful enough to get an upper hand and claim a victory. You could really make a lot with this concept, but because first MOBA was just a mod and all the next ones copied everything from it "getting stronger" means standing on lane and last hitting minions for half a match and all the games are repetitive shit played on almost identical boring maps.

>not playing for the lolis

why even own a pc you cuck

>have to install mods if you want to be able to play the game properly

/
>mists was fantastic

There are soo many things wrong with mists, that its offputting to older players. MoP suffered heavily from being unable to engross people into the fantasy world. Class design and balance were good and the raids were too, but the way the world building in MoP was and still is pretty poor (no shouldnt have to read third party content to understand whats happening),. and it was pretty poor in WoD as well. Legion world building has been alot more interesting such as the suramar questline tying into the raid really nicely.

Also that fucking panda music in shrine is unsub worthy shit i swear

I love mmo's but most of them suck. At least eso has made strides to become better, but even it is plagued by micro-transactions. (Most of which are just short cuts to shit you could already do but would otherwise have to earn.)

This guy is saying what I've been thinking for way too long.

Exactly

Have they improved the inventory/bank system?
I went full loot hoarder and my inventory space lasted maybe an hour.

Ultima Online was the only MMO that was ever worth a damn.

Chinagame.exe was glorious. Nothing was as fun as fucking around with PvP in Jiming Posthouse, the asshole of Jianghu.
Were you in lodesadings/notrabbu?

You can increase your inventory size, but that's been around for a very long time. Otherwise, they introduced a separate loot bag for crafting ingredients, but I think it's unfortunately for subscibers only.

The only MMORPG i have hope for is chronicles of elyria, still fear that it will be star citizen 2.0

buying law rune 1k

So how is blade and soul going?

did the bots killed this game?

>nest stomp
>next meteor smash
wait, the game actually tells you when to dodge attacks?
???

Not entirely. A widely-used raiding mod keeps track of enemy cooldowns as well as what to do in reaction to certain abilities (move back, move closer, kite a specific mob into the boss, ect.) for players who can't do more for themselves than keep their DPS rotation going.

>wants to start playing a mmo
>afraid of n00bing out and ignored by everyone

no, its a mod because the average chucklefuck cant manage mechanics and hitting buttons

I'm playing FF14 right now and it's far from anti social. Novice Network is bustling with people talking to each other, Datacenter PF makes it super easy to find groups and connections, and the general community on my server Exodus has been quite friendly.

Yes, I was sort of left out of the clique because my main got banned for having an offensive name and had to start all over, so I missed all the bonus exp from some event and got stuck on the dungeon needed for the second enlightenment or whatever.

But still I had so much fun raiding enemy schools and avoiding the police during infiltration missions, and being nearly unkillable as a wudang.

the only reason MMOs were fun was the social aspect
that died in WoW and I haven't seen it anywhere else

What game?