Why do you think that when the FF15 leaks came out here and on neogaf everyone seemed to have a consensus that if that...

Why do you think that when the FF15 leaks came out here and on neogaf everyone seemed to have a consensus that if that was the plot, the game was total shit and a Frankenstein "disaster"--then when the leaks are confirmed, people think the game is good and there is no backlash?

what

Nobody thinks the game is good and there is backlash

People with common sense got out yelled by post purchase rationalizers.

Also like usual I would assume most people didn't even finish the game. The game seems like it's going to be really good if you only play 5-10 hours of it, which is pretty normal.

I enjoyed the combat, and the characters were enjoyable. It was more of a movie than a game though but that's what my gf liked about it.

I didn't see it. ME3 had a backlash. The Order had a backlash. Not a peep here.

Is there literally anybody saying the plot was good?

Neogaf, gamefaqs, reddit, Sup Forums... pretty much everyone is saying the plot is butchered unintelligible mess and that the game was unfinished.

Kinda sad too because the first bit was pretty fun.

FFXV is bad in a boring way.
There's no controversy, no suprise. It's just as shit as everyone expected it to be

It wasn't as bad as the leaks made it sound but it was still kinda bad anyway.

The big problem is that when people were saying the story made no sense I thought they meant it made no sense a quirky japanese rpg kind of way.

I honestly didn't expect it to be incomplete. Square Enix, afaik, has never done this before and always released finished games so there really wasn't much of a precedent.

Now I'll have to be more diligent before I buy from them again.

It's sad that they'd give Final Fantasy, their flagship, such egregious treatment by the way. Especially after they were trying to reignite the franchise. Did they really think it was a good idea to grind their series' reputation into the dust just for the extra shekels?

I dunno, given the gameplay is basically hold circle and occasionally hold square when the enemy attacks, I can't see the justification of anything but shit scores if it doesn't make up for it with the plot

There's backlash, but it's disorganized with a lot of infighting. The reason for this is that the FF fanbase is not very organized to begin with, and there's so many little "microflaws" and systemic flaws that it's difficult to point at one thing and sperg out about it.

Can't they just sum it up like the people in the leak thread did by saying the plot is a mess? It was cobbled together from a ton of half formed ideas and it shows

People generally agree that the story is lacking, yeah. But there's all kinds of disagreement over how much that matters, what specifically is fucked up about it, whose fault it is, etc.

>The big problem is that when people were saying the story made no sense I thought they meant it made no sense a quirky japanese rpg kind of way.
>I honestly didn't expect it to be incomplete. Square Enix, afaik, has never done this before and always released finished games so there really wasn't much of a precedent.
Agree with this so much. Another thing that got me was how small/limited the world was. I was expecting it to be empty, but not small.

>It's sad that they'd give Final Fantasy, their flagship, such egregious treatment by the way. Especially after they were trying to reignite the franchise. Did they really think it was a good idea to grind their series' reputation into the dust just for the extra shekels?
They were between a rock and a hard place. XV/Versus was already a joke at that point(le TEN YEARS) so continuing to delay it still would've hurt their reputation. Also, as much as it pains me to admit it, I'm pretty sure that's really the best they could do. Even without time constraints, I kind of doubt it ever would've been an excellent game. Maybe a good one. They're sorely lacking in unity/vision right now and the toxic fanbase is doing nothing to help their confidence. Unless something drastic happens I feel like Final Fantasy is kill.

>all my echochambers say it's bad
Well done!

FFXV is just bad in the poorly made sense.

I think Tabata and the rest of the FFXV team had good intentions, but it was obvious the game was just full of too many ideas that either didn't get enough time to develop or just didn't mesh well together, and was also rushed out the door. I wouldn't say it's particularly insultingly bad like ME3 was, though. It's just a mess.

Every time someone brings up how they thought the story was poorly told, or that the plot was all over the place, you'll always get one or two guys saying
>But it was all in the game. You just weren't paying attention.

The fanbase became toxic because they fucked up so many times in past games. After X it just fractures into niches who like this vs niches who hate it, etc

No one had any context from leaks while the full game gave us proper context and showed it was good.

It's like if before FF7 came out and you leaked FF7s plot as "amenisiac blonde guy thinks he's his friend but has to stop long silver hair who killed his waifu he just met but she's ancient and he's the son of an alien who wants to destroy the world so silver hair transforms into an angel after blonde stops having anemia and then a meteor hits and the game ends.'

The problem also lies in that XV is not totally without endearing qualities. Unlike The Order and Mass Effect 3, though admittedly I avoided the latter completely after the devestation of DA2 and the general shift in company attitude. XV clearly had a world which had thought put into it and characters which are unique and defy typical tropes. These endearing factors were just marred by the haphazard mess that was the final product. The side material and little conversations shine a light on them though. Special mention from me is Brotherhood, which made me feel quite a bit for the whole cast. Prompto's story in particular touched me significantly - disclose, I taught for a while so that may just be my bias.

There's also an element of intent which makes XV less heinous than other releases. ME3 and The Order were clearly half assed and disengenous attempts at making appealing games. The former having fucking random google images used to established character reveals and the latter being one giant QTE. XV suffers almost the exact opposite in that TOO MUCH time went into trying to make it perfect that it got trapped in development hell. That there is some love buried in the mess makes it less of an insult and more a general disappointment. The other examples were insulting in that they believed people would treat them like marvels of the industry. The vibe I've gotten from SE over XV is almost apologetic

Majority thinks the game is good, stop lying anti kun.

>Square Enix, afaik, has never done this before

I personally feel they've done this twice before. VI and VIII. VI clearly had too little space to work with, so they cut out 90% of it and only left the string of the story in a way that the audience could bridge the gaps. VIII just went any which way and forgot about its set pieces immediately after (NORG being a good example.). While you could say the main story is there in a sort of emotional level, it's pretty haphazard eventwise and left so many unresolved plot threads, that I've always considered it the only FF that actually warranted a sequel.

Hipster contrarians that seem to have a golden standard for video games that literally no game can satisfy

>movie game

As much as any other game released these days i guess.

It makes 13 look like a visual novel by comparison tho.

>VI clearly had too little space to work with, so they cut out 90% of it and only left the string of the story in a way that the audience could bridge the gaps.
wat
Most of the WoR is empty of significant plot events. Doesn't seem like they ran out of space.

>Thinking the original concept would have fared any better.

The only reason XV even exists today is because SE finally saw Nomura for the hack he is.
Hell, the only reason he still has a job is because nips don't have the balls to fire employees.

that's where you're wrong

pls no

Well, the game was shit and a total disaster. Objectively. Only autistic man children who need video games for the characters in them as a means to pretend that they have friends liked the game.

It's just you guys shitposting.

>SE finally saw Nomura for the hack he is.
Which is why he's working on KH3, the FF7 remake and who knows what else? No, face it user, they still have the delusion that he's some kind of rockstar plotter when his best work was as a monster designer

YouTube comments again? Seriously anti kun? How desperate are you?

Trying too hard anti kun.

He's always done KH and he's only on 7R because of Kitase, who produced FF13, 13-2, 13-3 and the FF7 compilation, so he's shit too now.

Producer just does money shit

what are the chances an obsessed fanyboy would dismiss all criticism lol

Kitase is involved creatively in all of those, his concepts and stuff were the foundation of 13, advent children and other. In fact Kitase was making AC as a 20 minute short before they even put Nomura on it to make it a full movie, ff13 entire linear game structure was from Kitase's plans for the game.

Go away anti kun.

It made up for it with some decent character and gameplay moments. It was flawed but endearing in some ways, you could tell there was a lot of love (and talent) put into the game despite also the obvious gaps in budget and planning.

Maybe because theres more to a video game being good than just its plot??? maybe???

Yeah remember when Final Fantasy games had GOOD plots?

I thought the plot in concept was actually pretty decent.

Execution on the other hand...

I think the lack of WoR events is a testament to the fact that the cartridge couldn't hold more.

Regardless WoR concentrated on the party members or how the populace is coping. There being less world events makes some sense, and most of those were simple reasons for monsters to slay, enhancing the gameplay.

I'm talking about stuff like Kefka being explained with a few lines and the party members having a few conversations when they meet and changing their opinions of each other later, even somewhat suddenly, implying they talk quite a bit with each other on the Blackjack for instance.

For a few examples: We're led to believe that Cyan copes with his loss by clinging to his good manners and vengeance to keep his himself still moving, but we don't actually know that. Locke seems downright suicidal when you consider what he volunteers for and has huge hangups with ladies in distress. We know he's grief stricken, but is he really suicidal or just loyal to Edgar and the returners? If so, why? We don't learn how he met Edgar to answer that. However we can sort of paint our own story, that Locke was in trouble and Edgar extended a helping hand. The greater things like the war moves pretty fast all things considered, it's only five or so major events.

These are the parts of the story I feel were cut. Now it certainly made the game more fluid to play (and it's my favorite story in the series), so there were good sides to this as well

Why fucking release it at all? If they really cared about the integrity of the game they should have kept working on it till it was good and ready.

Because SquareEnix had already spent god knows how much on that fucking game already. They were going to release no matter what state it was in.

VIII had a far better plot, characters, setting, music, combat, everything etc than XV

>Regardless WoR concentrated on the party members or how the populace is coping

I wish we could've gotten a little bit of that for FFXV.

Wrong on all accounts except music and I didn't care much for XV, VIII is just a total travesty.

Plot: not as far as the written plot goes, but in terms of how the plot was actually executed....yeah. And that's fucking saying something.
Characters: No
Setting: Tie
Music: Tie, but only because XV cheated and let you include the best songs from VIII
Combat: yep, but also a completely different style of game - if you like traditional turn-based anything is better than XV. If you don't anything is better than VIII

I won't accept that. They have infinity dollars. They should treat their flagship with more respect than this. It really is quite shameful to see.

>Kitase is involved creatively in all of those, his concepts and stuff were the foundation of 13,
The foundations of 13 were good. The mythos and shit. The problem was the real game didn't have much to do with that

>Characters: No
What? Three party members and a terrible supporting cast? Yeah Dino sure is better than FUCKING NOBODY

>Setting
>two towns in XV
VIII blows the FUCK out of XV

>Music
>Tie
>Can't choose combat music
No

Actually I take back setting because that was pretty cool in VIII and some of the lore was neat too but the story is fan fiction tier.

This. The game is full of potential but how it was executed was its downfall. You can actually pin point the exact moment that the current dev team began to run out of time.

They pretty clearly don't. They burnt through two fucking engines on that game. Nomura is running around doing god knows what with KHIII. Dues Ex MD wasn't particularly successful, nor was the latest Tomb Raider. They claimed, and who knows if it's true, that Hitman was released episodically because they couldn't risk the investment upfront.

SE isn't poor, but I don't think they were in Blizzard-shape in terms of cash either.

VIII's combat was kinda wack. I agree on the rest though.

The thing is, I don't think event and manipulation of existing assets take up that much in a game's actual rom. Perhaps it was more like time played more of a role.

Well the FNC lore, which I agree is very interesting, was done by the same guy who did VII's lore: Kazushige Kojima.

Also the shift to HD made XIII go through development hell, every single SE FF has had a terrible development period. They need to get that together.

aka the moment they left Lucis

Not him, but the boy band was a lot more entertaining than the orphans and Rinoa.

>the boy band was a lot more entertaining than the orphans and Rinoa.
(you)

Yes, XV. 8 isn't one of them.

No it didn't, even remotely.

I'm not talking about the mythos, I'm talking about the game design.

A good plot doesn't mean anything when the presentation of it is VIII levels of bad.

Thanks, but I'm not wrong and will never be wrong.

The party in XV are better than anyone in 8. XV party are more likeable and well rounded plus believable humans than anyone in 8.

XV has two major cities and multiple outposts and settlements which are the same exact thing as towns or villages. Stop bullshitting.

XV has better music all round.

Noctis is the best FF protag while Squall is one of the worst. Ardyn is the best FF villain while Ultimecia is shit.

>XV has better music all round.
You're right on everything except that.

It's true.

It's not though. Other than a rushed second half there isn't anything bad about it, you still get whatever necessary info you need for the ending to have good emotional impact, which XV has more than any other FF because of how well presented the bros were.

Hello there XV-kun.

Well if you care about the game part of FF I can't help you here. I'm in it for the plot.

XV has the best battle tracks in the franchise. I don't even remember the boss, special boss or final boss themes in 8 but remember every battle track in XV. Man with the machine gun and liberi fatali are the only tracks from 8 I can even recall.

Go away.

8>13>10>14>13-2>4>7>9>6>3>1>2

really?