Should fighting games have a training mode?

Should fighting games have a training mode?

Look, I know people will call me retarded here but Sup Forums barely plays fighting games anyways so most of you don't matter in this discussion.

Fighting games are unique in that your progress in the games is by how much you yourself improve and not how many levels you gain or things like that. But you can literally waste 2 years in trainings mode, go online and fuck everyone over. The way most fighting games work these days is that you're matched with players on your skill level. There is no way of measuring player skill though if all they've been doing is training.

If you want a training mode in your fighting game you should be matched against people who spend a similar amount of time in training. You agree?

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>remove training mode
>people just train using 2P mode alone
hurrrrrrrrr

>I know people will call me retarded
They'd be right, retards. Admitting being stupid with retarded opinion doesn't suddenly change that shit into gold. Retard.

>But you can literally waste 2 years in trainings mode, go online and fuck everyone over.
youtube.com/watch?v=KVTOKVihQKM

Yes you dummy. Street Fighter training modes have always been fucking awful, as with most fighting games. Most fighting games don't teach you how to deal with certain scenarios, they don't teach you spacing, all they do is have you do this impracticable combo. Guilty Gear and Skullgirls are the only fighting games I know with actual good training mode/tutorials

I don't agree.

There's no way of knowing if people are doing anything useful in training mode and professional combo video training mode autists still suck at spacing and blocking and opening people up and not getting thrown.

I will say that you shouldn't be able to pick the training stage in vs mode because come the fuck on.

>i hate that people take their time to practice their character's in training mode so they know what they're doing online unlike me
>forgets that training mode can't help with mu/overall lack of experience fighting human players
awful thread op

>But you can literally waste 2 years in trainings mode, go online and fuck everyone over.

You'd have a leg up on shitters, but anyone who actually knows how to play the game will fuck you over.

>But you can literally waste 2 years in trainings mode, go online and fuck everyone over.

Yes
Time spend /= skill

Training mode teaches you nothing about playing another human.

You could have the sickest resets and most optimal combos of anyone but that shit doesn't matter if you play someone who understands neutral better than you.

holy shit. if he is ranked number 1 on xbl, he must have been doing something right. why did he get beaten so badly?

Ibuki is a flowchart character and works extremely well online against people that don't know how to deal with her bullshit. The guy clearly has no concept of neutral either, he stands at near full-screen randomly pressing buttons with no thought and the Yun wipes the floor with him as a result.

>But you can literally waste 2 years in trainings mode, go online and fuck everyone over.
No you can't.

>But you can literally waste 2 years in trainings mode, go online and fuck everyone over.
>Look, I know people will call me retarded here

I think you're forgetting that you start out against bronze players.

He was only the best Ibuki
Plus that other character was OP at the time.

that's not everyone you retard

see any combo video making autist's tournament results

>football players shouldn't be allowed to train desu
you're this retarded, OP

shut the fuck up until you're no longer a scrub

This is probably a variation of a redditard pasta.

>But you can literally waste 2 years in trainings mode, go online and fuck everyone over

wasting hundreds of hours being a trainingboar wont get you even close to being able to "fuck everyone over"
you will have zero matchup knowledge, no game plan, no idea about proper spacing and absolute shit footsies. the only thing you have is reliable execution on a few combos, which really doesn't go as far as people think.

>absolute shit footsies
you do training mode to improve footsies that's why the background is grid based

>Fighting games are unique in that your progress in the games is by how much you yourself improve and not how many levels you gain or things like that.

This is how every good competitive game is.

Don't get me wrong, I have enormous respect for fighting game players. I'm an old arena shooter player, over 2004-2007 I spent many weekends going to LAN parties and competing in Quake and UT tournaments. I could never get into fighting games, but anyone doubting the skill they take is a moron...

But to say that fighting games are the only game where personal skill is the sole deciding factor in the outcome is preposterous. Competitive shooters and RTS both were every bit as good in the comp scene as fightan.

Who's ready for a good old fashioned thread where old compfags argue about whose genre is the most hardcore?

>But you can literally waste 2 years in trainings mode, go online and fuck everyone over
why has Desk never won a tournament?

top level fighting games is like playing chess but you only get 2 seconds per turn and if you misplace a piece slightly outside of the space you tried to move it to you get disqualified

i thinks he is forbidden to enter them

>But you can literally waste 2 years in trainings mode, go online and fuck everyone over.
Have you started playing fighting game this year?
Training mode let you learn/try your combo and see how some mixup works
If you know how to do a combo but can never do it in a match because you can never set it up you're going to get fucked in the ass
And mixup doesn't work the same way in a real situation
Training warrior were always shit and will always be shit

funny user thinks his theory is somehow a revelation. reason jap players are so good is because they play at arcades. Good job at explaining something thats been common knowledge since 1991

>That guy that alwasy thinks he's so cool for saying Sup Forums don't play fighters while posting on Sup Forums
Didn't even read the rest of you're stupid ass blogpost

You're absolutely 100% completely right op, you ARE retarded

you're too stupid to play fighters

I can kiiinda see the sentiment when looking at games like SG where how good you are literally amounts to the amount of time you spent in training mode, but nonetheless it's not feasible to not have one. I played shitty fm2k games that did not feature a training mode and just did local versus against myself to train.

this must be one of my favourite videos on the internet period

Fighting Games have two halves:

Understanding how to play the game Mechanically

Understanding how to play the game Fundamentally

Someone who understands the game well from a mechanical perspective is someone who would have amazing execution and would be able to perform anything they want whenever they want.

Someone who understands the game well fundamentally is someone who understands when to go for certain things and when they should press or back off and why they should do any of those things.

Training mode teaches you the former whereas playing real human opponents teaches you the latter. In order to succeed in a fighting game, you need ample amounts of both qualities. However, that isn't to say that there aren't people who are specialists in one of the two categories who may have insane fundamentals but go for confirms and combos that aren't as execution heavy and there's people who have touch of death combos and crazy setplay but don't know how to get in to do any of the things they've practiced ad nauseum.

Getting stuck or hitting a wall is indicative of lack of either of two qualities. In order to advance ranks and level up, you have to hit certain thresholds. It's possible to advance playing solely on your strengths, but there will eventually come a point where your deficiency in the opposite category will impede or halt your growth all together. It doesn't matter if you have a cup large enough to hold an entire 2 liter if you only have a bit to drink.

training mode doesn't teach you neutral aka the most important part of any fighting game. And even if you removed it, people would still be able to train via 2player mode (+modding/codes)

we are hitting 2nd grade levels of insults. way to go user you sure showed him.

>There is no way of measuring player skill though if all they've been doing is training
And how is that a problem? You'll blaze through the lower ranks and quickly end up where you belong, by your logic we shouldn't be allowed to play casual matches either.

You know what OP. I agree with you actually.

you're probably too stupid to play fighters too

100% correct

I started from nothing with SFV, played around until I got some basic fundamentals then felt I needed some combos, once I got combos I needed better fundamentals. It's a never ending cycle until you get to the point where you know all the mechanics of your favorite character. That's when the game really starts to get fun, imo.

that's the stupidest shit i've ever read

you're killin me jeb

how important is the controller in fighting games?
would i do ok with a regular old xbox360 controller? or are the arcade controllers mandatory?

What's the matter? Is the shoryuken motion too hard for you?

What rank are you?

>or are the arcade controllers mandatory?

Nope, not at all. It's a cosmetic choice with the only advantage being button placement, but if you're going to get used to a 360 pad then that shouldn't be a problem/

DP
The term you are looking for is DP
Your mother aught to know about that.

Personal preference. There's advantages and disadvantages to both.

Charge characters feel more natural on stick but grapplers with 360 motions are easier on controller generally, but that doesn't mean that it's something that can't be done; it just requires a bit of extra planning and practice.

One of the past Evo champions won USFIV with a modded ps1 controller.

>Sup Forums barely plays fighting games anyways so most of you don't matter in this discussion.

> But you can literally waste 2 years in trainings mode, go online and fuck everyone over.

No, you can't.

Mind games, you'll learn shit about that on training.

Take the Skullgirls approach in tutorial by teaching mechanics and unique mechanics of the game.

Take my own approach that I thought of while playing Heritage for the Future story mode: Make the first couple of fights medium matchups, ones that require you to utilize the unique aspects of the character to win but are not crushingly hard. Forcing you to quickly adapt to them, then easing up in the middle with some easier matchups, and finishing off with brutally hard ones.

You are retarded

t. Top 5 in my state at niche fighting game

People would just do 2P against no one anyways, and Fighting games are best when two people have mastered the mechanics and have to play the meta

All your ideas do is keep the meta away from more people so you can wank off about that combo you practiced without having to learn how to land it. And not even that because of 2p, you'd just make training more annoying.

One more thing. If you don't like the idea of dropping potentially hundreds on an arcade stick, you could always go with a fightpad. It's a lot cheaper (pic related is about 55) and you avoid the issue of putting your hards on the shoulder buttons.

>trying to play a fighting game with the 360 D-Pad
I mean I guess you can do it if you fucking hate yourself

Unless he worked on the game he wouldn't be forbidden.

Also I don't think we've ever seen footage of him playing a normal match, combo video stuff is something completely different really.

I play fighting games all the time and i can explain why you're wrong,but i don't want to sit here and type it all out. So here's the short version. Youre retarded gitgud.

Plenty of pad players do well in--

>360 pad

You need something else. Anything else.

online play is not a substitute for offline play in any real game

soo, recs?

dualshock, you likely won't like using the analog stick on a controller because it sucks (at least for me) and the dualshock controllers' dpad is wonderful for fighting games

Real talk, I would play fighters with 360 pads for for almost a decade and did excellent, the one day when another one broke down (which, after years of use, happens even with the priciest controller) I caved in to all the naysayers telling me to get literally anything else, so I imported a hori fighting commander pad and was... not overwhelmed. You could tell it's more accurate but the crosspad was just too different to what I was used to. So I got a sfiv madcatz fightpad with the round dpad and that one to me felt downright WORSE than the xbox 360 pad with it's supposedly super shitty dpad.

Long story short, fuck what anyone says, use whatever you want to, experience makes up for anything and even the stuff people say is literally impossible works just fine. A gamepad is a gamepad at the end of the day. I mean I know someone who plays world level smash 64 with a 10 bucks thrustmaster piece of shit. And I will keep on using xbox360 pads till they stop producing them...

yes
the fuck kind of question is this

you are a retard.

All training mode can do is help you learn how to do the moves and maybe some basic strategy though. Just.like people hwo only play arcade mode get slaughtered by even low level pvp players, because all they do is learn what the ai does.

Anyone who spends time in training mode who thinks he's gonna be a god at pvp is a dumbass. Period. It's.a non-point and nothing of concern.

Playing against other humand is the only way to master a fighting game, because it's the only way to see how humans play and addapt to it.

>Playing against other humand is the only way to master a fighting game, because it's the only way to see how humans play and addapt to it.
You have a point, and I agree that people are the best method for training your ability to fight people, but you need the training mode so that you can train to the best of your ability and learn the combos.

without training, you'd flounder spamming the same target combo that you figured out until it eventually stopped working and you lost

Training modes should have "preset" options that you can download from other players.

You are the most dumb person on this planet probably.

This post gave me a hot flash and a headache. I think I'm done here for the day. You're a fucking idiot. Stick to Dota.

and ironically dota has infinitely better training options than any fighter

>i don't play any fighters

LEAVE WITHEGUN ALONE.

So I'm new to fighting games.How complex is the tekken series?

>best ibuki
>on xbox
He had to compete with what, 50 people?

Quite complex, but you don't need advanced knowledge to have fun with it.

>I was top 8 Dan in less than 20 hours
direct quote from Sup Forums

They should have training mode, but it now costs $0.50 for either 3 minutes or until you or the training dummy get KO'd, whichever comes first.

shoryuken means dragon punch, you know, DP, it's the same thing

You're trying too hard to appear in the know, btw.

A better question is: "Should fighting games have difficult input barriers or focus exclusively on applying the right reaction fast enough and making hard reads?"

I think it would be best to have approach options that were hard input barriers because this is what you do before you react to your opponent so it makes sense that it should be harder to input an approach than to react to your opponent, which already requires fast reflexes and doesn't need an input barrier. Combos should be difficult inputs and even require unique timing- your opponent should be able to alter the flow of the combo while being hit so you can mess up the combo if you don't react to their attempts to throw your combo off through slight positioning and body rotation influence to each hit in a combo. Smash bros already has this and is superior to many fighting games for it.

There'd be no way to control a skill based matchmaking system. If it was like modern shooters with a ranking/skill system, people would just purposely derank to move down a few tiers and make themselves feel like God by bodying the shitty or new players. Without a way to derank, they'd just make alt accounts to continue to body the lower tiers.

The FGC is incredibly petty and ego driven, so this is all pretty much guaranteed.

>tl;dr training mode stays, you're a mong

>you can literally waste 2 years in trainings mode, go online and get completely fucked over because you don't know the first thing about neutral
FTFY

This is you OP

smash bros works because it's reliant on physics based comboing and kill fields as opposed to a closed stage and HP bars, like a traditional 2d fighter. without ways to interrupt a combo in smash you could just get carried off the edge and die, whereas in most 2d fighters concepts like juggle potential and damage scaling limit the potential for touch of death combos, but offer flexibility when talking about aspects like damage, oki, and corner carry. if you could just break out of combos that already are limited like this, it puts the attacker at a huge disadvantage, not to mention an extra execution barrier on approach options further discourages aggression. guilty gear handles some of this really well with burst, allowing limited recovery from combos about once per round, which factors into mind games.

smash bros is its own entity when it comes to fighting games, and can't rightly be compared to other traditional fighters due to its fundamental differences. things that work for it probably wont work for other fighting games unless theyre built from the ground up with that mentality

>HEAR ME OUT
>It's not fair that people put time into getting good at the game. They just shouldn't have the resources or a place where they can do it because I'm too lazy to do that myself

>But you can literally waste 2 years in trainings mode, go online and fuck everyone over.
You literally cannot.
You will only fuck those over who did NOT do their training.

In which case, what's wrong with you? You don't understand the game on any level whatsoever but assume you can just go online and play up to par with people who pracitced?

Be honest here OP, do you think you could go to a gym and squat 315 for a set of 5 RIGHT now?
No?
Should the gym be banned?

People who are better than you, deserve to be so. It is on you that you didn't make the decision to improve first.

Equal fighting game matches are EARNED not GIVEN.

he shitposted this same thing in /fgg/ about 30 minutes before he made this thread and was btfo'd there before coming here desu

oh well

>Sup Forums showing they've never been to any tourney ever

NERVES

>do you think you could go to a gym and squat 315 for a set of 5 RIGHT now?
>he doesn't squat four hundo
LIGHTWEIGHT BABY

shit sorry man
I'm a manlet you know

you stupid? SFIV was most popular on 360.

my GS had black ones like that from hori for dirt cheap

damn good to use and works on PS3 and PS4. also good for other 2D games like D&D collection

She also worked against people that know how to play against her simmply because online LMAO. Same shit as balrog on sfv, you get to see the move when it already hits you

>If you want a training mode in your fighting game you should be matched against people who spend a similar amount of time in training
Most people don't use their time playing productively.

One guy spends 200 hours playing random matches against people with no thought.

Another guy divides those 200 hours up between practicing training mode, playing matches, and watching replays of their own matches.

Matching the two of them up based on time spent in-game is retarded for this reason. We have rankings for a reason, as the amount you win is a better indicator for how good you are than how much time you spend in the game.