why are MMORPG's dead?
Why are MMORPG's dead?
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only your shitty sandbox MMORPGs are dead
WoW and FFXIV are thriving
It has to happen eventually right?
Wow killed the genre.
wow and rs went p2w
Also MOBA's eclipse in popularity of mmorpg's, thus taking away all the casual and low ki mmo players that would be playing something like ESO, OSRS, or GW2. I still play OSRS because I love sand box mmorpgs :)
They are more of a zombie at this point
because everybody's solution to WoW was either to clone it or go back to faggy games with systems like Everquest's.
DDO, War Hammer Online, LOTRO, AOC, Wild Star, GW2, FFXIV, ESO, and more wow killers that are lost in my head. I think it is funny that all the players combined in these "WOW Killers" are not even a 1/4 of WOW active players right now
UO was the shit
Spent my whole highschool years on it
Publishers went full jew.
Not enough free time.
everyone who liked them grew up, they're a relic of an older era
pantheon is my last hope, and even thats slim with brad at the helm.
Wow killed it self long ago people keep playing because it is easy to get to end game content pretty fast and old players have invested just to much time/money to leave it even if the quality of the game is pretty low, sir_faggot.
because the pc gaming community couldn't survive all the console gamers jumping ship to the platform
they don't "fit in", their wants and goals in games are just different
muds are dead, mmos are dead, and it's because of the new community rather than the new games
Considering the niche audience and small following sans WoW, I'd argue they were never really alive.
There's also an aversion to monthly subscription, which is necessary for content updates
There were two essentials to MMORPGs:
1) Exploration - exploring the world, the story, the lore, PvE, etc.
2) Competition - trade, auctions, grinding for resources, PvP, etc.
The essence of exploration is ceded to the essence of competition; People always prefer finding an edge over other people. Which is why it's hard to support a reasonably immersive roleplay server. People who want to enjoy the essence of exploration will migrate instead to games where they can do so without having to deal with players who enjoy competition. Imagine single player games, small-scale PvP games like Dark Souls, and even non-video games like DnD.
So what we have left is competition. The problem with competition in MMORPGs is that you have to grind. You have to spend time doing things that have nothing to do with competition in order to do what you want to do. People want competition *now*. So instead, they'll play games like League Of Legends or Dota 2. MOBAs in general have replaced MMORPGs.
tldr; Exploration stands in the way of competition. Competition stands in the way of exploration. Players will look elsewhere, especially if its free(mium).
...
Social media and World of Warcraft killed it
because they destroyed class fantasy and identity as well as the social element of MMOs.
I grew up with runescape and i quit in like 2011, i wasn't a hardcore player since most of the times it i just did what i thought was fun, while meeting friends along the way.
I miss being innocent, asking people in GE about stuff, or giving money to noobs to enter the desert.
It was all an adventure and i miss it so...
Yeah i tried osrs, it was fun and i even turned member for the first time ever but i realised i was mostly pretending to have fun when getting x3 better then i was on my original character.
Googled everything, no player interaction..
No just meeting people in the road to falador asking his cooking level or how to enter the cookers guild.
It was more fun when you didn't know as much is what im trying to say.
>low ki
what the fuck does this even mean
When RP and PvP merge, you will always have third world faggots or obese disabled Americans going for 'muh metagame' where they min-max and datamine the fastest possible shortcut. This kills the overall experience and lowers the quality for other players. Furthermore, a focus on dungeon-raiding instead of increasing down-time activities and promoting Roleplay/imagination leads it to be a monthly pay-to-work festival that no one fucking wants anymore.
t. Someone who played UO and other RP-Central MMO's since 1997.
People stopped caring about the community and focuses on the actual game.
Its a bunch of manchildren who can't enjoy things.
There is no actual fantasy since the immersion is ruined, atleast for me.
Pantheon will save it.
FU
Can we stop calling some games the savior of the genre or wow killer or whatever?
Can't we just have reasonable expectations of these things?
PANTHEON
CANT WAIT
srsly, i hope it works out.
The only thing FF14 was marketed as was FF11 2.0 Sir Shillington. Ironically it was almost an FF killer because 1.0 was so poorly made.
WoW is literally an Everquest clone dummy
What does Sup Forums think of POTCO?
Is that Delucia? Why can my brain remember that 17 years later but never remember birthdays?
You may be right, I don't remember
The best fucking online game of all times right there.
It really sucks that 1.0 had so many good ideas but a really shitty execution and the remake had a bunch of shitty ideas but a pretty good execution.
MMO genre ain't dead, the golden age just ended. There's still plenty to choose from, you just don't hear about them that much because a new MMO releasing isn't that big a deal anymore, hell even the new WoW expacs aren't getting as much coverage as they used to.
God I hope so.
>WoW subscription expiring in 2 days
>I've been paying it with gold for the past 2 years
>since blizzard announced you could trade them for real money all the jews are spending their millions on tokens so the price is now forever beyond my reach
It had to happen eventually, but it's a damn shame 10+ years of autistic on and off playing will end up by simply being too poor to keep playing.
MMOs need to stop trying to be the mythical "wow killer" and do their own thing. It's the only way we'll see something good again.
Vanilla(YES FUCKING VANILLA) WoW killed anything the MMO genre had going for it. They made an MMO that appealed to casuals and they ate it up, thus ruining it for everyone else.
FUCKING NORMIES.
>the shaman class
>class
That sucks. There's one avenue of freedom taken away off the bat. I'm going to keep watching, but that's a huge disappointment for me to see.
I've got Project 99, Uthgard and silkroad online installed atm what others should I have installed
Shards online is in prepurchase alpha and I think the only mmo worth following at the moment.
WoW became it's own genre and replaced MMO as a genre. We've reached the point where we can make a better WoW (RIFT) and still have it fail because it's not WoW.
Pantheon is gonna be the new EQ
Rift simply didn't have the production quality, lore/setting or graphic style to have any chance of being the wow killer even when it was the better game in so many ways.
Rift took a massive plunge in quality after it went F2P because Trion utterly failed in managing that one war game. Tons of people were laid off and lots of corners were cut and it's an empty shell indistinguishable from any other today.
Fuck Trion. You could have stayed as a game developer, but instead you went full jew and are just another empty publisher that adds nothing.
>tfw this game didn't do good because they made a MMO instead of a single player game.
I can only imagine how amazing it would've been if they had taken out all the MMO shit to make the solo stuff (which is already amazing) even better.
I liked a graphic style of rift a lot more than wow, but you are right in that i felt kind of cheaply made and I didn't give two shits about the characters/lore. The game itself was everything I'd ever wanted in a themepark MMO though. The classes were so creative and fun to play and mix together and the PVP was the closest I've gotten to experiencing DAOC/WAR again.
i play Ultima Online on a private server that is pre-Trammel and has a large, active pool of players
it is the most fun i've had in an MMO in a long time
whats the private server name
name?
I've been interested in trying out Ultima
UO Forever
>Dead
youtu.be
>wow for weebs
thanks for contributing
thanks senpai
Oh look it's a WoW with an FF skin! Must be real cool game everyone come and join me!
> HEY GUYS
not watching the rest
fuck you ffxiv is everything wow ever hoped ot be its one of the greatest mmos made
MMOs died when it was no longer about being in a virtual world and being more about building the best character. Not in the instance of getting a cool rare sword or an amulet with a rare power, but literally doing everything you can to make sure your character has his/"her" stat build higher than every other player.
Because of this, developers only focuses on the endgame and how many bosses with cool looking gimmicks they can shill into the game instead of the world they created.
Nobody cared about this shit 15 years ago. The leveling process used to be the most fun thing about an MMO, even if you was somehow a solo player back then.
the denial is strong in this one
They adopted anti-social design patterns in an inherently social genre.
MMO's are dead because their niche was filled by general online multiplayer becoming widespread.
MMO's have historically had RPG mechanics that are shittier than a regular RPG, and combat mechanics that are shitter than a regular action game. They made up for these short-falls by having massively multiplayer online components, allowing large groups of friends to play together.
Now, online gaming is a norm, and so the only things MMO's have that are unique are the shitty RPG and combat mechanics.
raphkoster.com
Give this a read.
Someone's forgetting that UO was originally American.
You're coming in with your own values and imposing it on them. Have you tried not being a faggot, or are you going to continue to be so until the planet is covered in sharia?
You have one of the cheapest hobbies, and over 10 years you couldn't figure out a way to support it?
Having worked with a smallish community, there is the other issue that MMOs can't get that big and still have that community. And since MMO's are expensive as balls to develop and maintain, big surprise developers aren't working towards supporting that sort of mindset outside of the rare insane MUD developer.
Any genre that experiences a popularity boom eventually "dies off" back to its normal levels. MMOs grew rapidly in the late 90s/early 00s because of advancements in a number of relevant areas, from the average age of gamers to the speed of internet connections to the quality of "acceptable" graphics. Their peak was never sustainable and the over-centralization that WoW engendered prevented the genre from evolving.
Social media killed the social appeal.
Power creep killed the little gameplay MMO's had.
the RPG part of it is dead and fleshed out more than my dick.
the MMO genre currently cant be applied to many other types of gaming genres due to hardware limitations.
>there are Trammel babies in this very thread
Pretty much this. The only real reason MMOs were popular was there was literally no other option to play an online game.
PS2 and Xbox servers were shit, so PC was the only option. Now all the based 90s PC online games are serverless abandonware.
I know this and im not implying developers aren't doing anything wrong. MMOs aren't dead in the sense of shilling their product to be build-obsessed players that also play LoL and Gacha RPGs on the side. It's just the original idea for it is essentially dead.
>Yes, communities form without the enemy, but they seem to fragment into cliques and manufacture an enemy within themselves (again, like this ng many times!). Shared interest by itself doesn’t really drive community. It drives acquaintanceships. And acquaintanceships are easy to come by, there’s no need to make a whole honkin’ game for them. As far as limited resources–we were stumbling about in the dark on this issue when we set up the game economy, when we did the size map we did… none of the games out there limit resources enough because they are all hung up on “having enough for everybody.” Well, a game with enough for everybody is a game where you don’t need other people very much.
Probably the most important paragraph of the whole article.
A multiplayer game where you can solo to level cap is a shit game. WoW, FFXIV, doesn't matter. Trash bin material.
How do you make an MMO where there's no power creep?
Soloing is the end result of Toxic playebase demanding a certain level of meta in multiplayer games.
Back in the day, grouping with other people was a /fun/ experience. You get 4 other suckers to bantz with while murdering skeletons.
horizontal/no level curve
player skill > gear score
not hard. but of course a post-wow baby like you wouldn't understand.
I still want to play Ultima Online today. I just want to run Doom Gauntlet with some friends.
There's no game that has done that ever. MMOs in particular have /never/ succeeded in acquiring the golden egg of meaningful gameplay without progression.
Problem is that when you lean harder and harder into player skill, you run into players doing more and more drastic measures to ensure that player skill becomes irrelevant, Just ask any MUD player about scripting.
Expensive + High Risk = 'Safe' game development
Why risk doing something different when copying any generic but successful MMO structure is guaranteed money? Even BDO a game which everyone thought was shit still generates enough to stay alive, same with every other 'failed' MMO.
This is pretty much why I can't enjoy vanilla WoW servers
New content gives alternative solutions to equipment and skills, not superior.
I liked FFXI's original style of dealing with it, where you NEEDED to group up with strangers to level any job past like like 12 except for a single advanced job in beastmaster that was challenging as hell to play and took a lot longer to level as compared to grouping every time.
It also had to do with older MMOs having slower paced combat where you actually had time to chat inbetween. Try that with something like Tera or a WoW dungeon group concentrated getting through that shit as fast as possible. Not going to happen.
ffxiv is awful, I've played over 1k hours/completed story content, reached endgame etc.
osrs is decent still but I've tired of it
>Dialogue box
>Pet box
>Skill bars
>Party tabs
>Ultra generic MMO UI set up
Generic shit, dropped.
I think it needs to be a game where being the most powerful isn't the objective. Or there needs to be objectives as tempting as being the most powerful and the content of the game needs to reflect that.
The the endgame/raiding focused design of modern MMORPGs is one major factor of this search of best gear and highest numbers. The players react in a certain way to this design and to respond to that reaction the devs need to powercreep or else the players lose interest.
Do like they did in the old times and add a rebirth system. It was like class advancements but a lot more meaningful, because you're sacrificing your character's power in order to start back at level 1 with better stats.
One MMO that did that also gave free magic skills that made you a semi-Enchanter. Basically endgame players who went through the journey to making it to endgame could help newer players by giving out these buffs which could last for 15 minutes to 3 hours.
Toxic playerbases develop because there's no sufficient ostracization gate for players who refuse to play (socialize) with other players.
A system like where party leaders manually invited 5 other people to a group, to do something so simple as EXP, guaranteed that the asshats were weeded out of the upcoming cadre of levellers.
So long as they continued to act like an asshole, they wouldn't get a group, which means that they'd be blocked from participating in the game to any meaningful degree.
I really wish someone would go take vanilla WoW, then rip out all the quests, NPCs, auction houses, 'convenience' features and cities and then just kept updating it with new locations without telling anyone when or where those updates took place.
>player skill > gear score
Good luck making player skill relevant with latency
>TFW All I want is an mmo that allows me to be the innkeep or smithy and make the gear/alcohol people need to get through their adventure, or hearing stories about exotic injuries while treating them as the town cleric
>Crying about latency
>In 2017
t. eastern european subhuman
That sounds like a dumb as shit idea that would lead to a shitload amount of e-begging.
Vanilla WoW was hard as fuck and insanely punishing in terms of content and time investment
Sell me on Shards
>Good luck making player skill relevant with latency
literally every game lags, who cares.
But all of those convenience things were way more limited in vanilla, quests especially. In a good way.
I only really know two games that had this sort of Rebirth system.
In Ragnarok you'd rebirth after hitting 99 and you'd get a few new skills for your 2nd class and a few more stat points but it required a lot more xp to hit 99 again.
In Mabinogi your character would age every week and there was basically a sweetspot for character growth. Rebirthing set your level back to 1 but also let you choose the age from 10 to 17 that you'd rebirth at. You kept all the skills you had.
It's a neat system but neither really did anything against power creep.
1. Homogenization of video games, and of the internet
2. People are working more hours for less money
Put the two together, and you have yourself a dead genre. Several dead genres, actually.
I always wanted to take WoW as it is in Vanilla and make shits loads of custom content and revamp the game so hard that it might as well be a total conversion.
Factions like the Dark Irons being joinable, and more races, interactions between them.
In depth class systems with lots of skills and jobs.
Only problem is dataminers would ruin it.