Sonic games were considered some of the easiest games back in the day

>Sonic games were considered some of the easiest games back in the day
>Modern audiences find them difficult
what went wrong?

Easy. Modern audiences think that Sonic should be going fast to the right at all times rather than using the terrain to gain and maintain momentum. Hense, so they blindly spindash and run into things without thinking. Then they blame the game for not letting them go fast.

Can't really blame them, though. SEGA themselves have perpetuated this flawed way of thinking.

>Past audiences didn't fall for marketing targeted at them
>but modern audiences fall for past marketing not targeted at them
where's the fucking sense in this?

Sonic's final bosses were always hard for me, but that's because it was no rings, which I think was a cheap way to boost difficulty.

the only one that could pose a problem was the boss from Sonic 2

I always get fucked by the water in sonic games
literally the worst part

It wasn't just the marketing. It was future games as well.
Past audiences didn't fall for it because the Boost Pad hadn't become a level design crutch for Sonic Team yet. It was this decision to start relying on these cheap methods of getting up to speed that started perpetuating the "gotta go fast" mentality.

>watching review of a sonic game
>"I don't like this level because it makes you stop and press a switch a couple times."

>watching a review of a sonic game
>"Sonic needs go back to basics and stop including his stupid friends!"
>It's been 10 years since we've played as anyone except the blue rat and this criticism still exists.

Sandopolis and Mystic Mansion are good zones.

/thread

Sonic 1 it was an issue too desu.

There are faggots from the other thread who had trouble in Final Fantasy or Metroid.

Sanic is too hardcore for this board.

maybe because I've been playing these games since I was a kid but Sonic 1 boss is the easiest one of the original trilogy

Sonic 1's final boss was just incredibly lame.

In Sonic 2 you had to fight 2 rather unpredictable bosses in a row without taking a single hit.

>Sanic
You are part of the problem.

>Sonic should be going fast at all times
He's fucking Sonic. He's the fucking fast. If I wanted to play a platforming game with precise and calculated jumps, I wouldn't settle for Sonic in the first place.

Most modern gamers would probably die to the World 1-1 Goomba.

>being this young
>spout shit about things you dont know

Listen kiddo, sonic cd was notorious for odd level layouts and that no one could play it at the time.

Labyrinth zone is a bullshit life eating stage, you used to play sonic at the arcade

Modern sawneck is just as bad with glitch ridden games and pitfalls as bottomless as the characters

Mario is not "about" lasagna, nor is he "about" fixing the plumbing, yet those are his main character traits when it comes to marketing.

In the same way, Sonic's marketing and Sonic's gameplay are two different things (or, at least, they USED to be.) Sonic's speed is the result of using the terrain to your advantage and using momentum to keep the rhythm going.

You've fallen for Sonic's modern marketing that tote Sonic as being about speed and speed alone and, once again, I can't blame you for that. I'm just saying that things used to be different. Those were good times.

>Mario is about lasagna and plumbing
Settle down, you've been in a coma for over ten years.

>In Sonic 2 you had to fight 2 rather unpredictable bosses in a row without taking a single hit.
>unpredictable bosses
The two final bosses follow the same attack pattern every time you fight them. There's nothing "rather unpredictable" about either of them.

No rings being given is a bit harsh, but if I could beat Sonic 2 when I was seven, then I don't see how either boss could be considered that difficult. They're just tedious, if anything.

Name one other canon character trait Mario has then.

He's heroic.

I say there unpredictable because if you're 7 and you've never seen these bosses before, theres a good chance it can fuck with you. Silver Sonic can jump in the middle of his spindash, which theres a good chance you'll run into on your first time, and Metal Eggman has a really odd hitbox because of his arms. No wonder people got extremely nervous during these fights.

fucking kek

just as the intelligence and genetics of the modern general populace rapidly degenerates as time goes on, so does their ability to adapt to challenge, even if it is just in a pointless video game.

2d platforming. They are not used to that shit, like some of us were because that was one of big genres back then.
And this People said that because Sega started with the tend of characters with different gameplays instead of being like Sonic but with unique paths. This got to such a silly point that a character like Shadow, that played like Sonic, was using fucking guns and vehicles.
After 06 Sega went full retarded with that multi-character problem and we got just Sonic, instead of Knuckles, Tails, Shadow, Blaze, etc as playable but as something extra after finishing the game once.
Now Tails is handicapped, always sitting in some mech or playing around with a gadget. Knuckles is absent or lost somewhere. Blaze is in the future. And Shadow is too cool to be around them.

>I say there unpredictable because if you're 7 and you've never seen these bosses before, theres a good chance it can fuck with you.
The same could said about most bosses from that era, though. If they were truly unpredictable, they would have a pool of different moves that they would pull from at random. Instead, Silver Sonic always spindashes across the ground first, then skates across the stage second, then spindashes with a jump third, etc.

It definitely takes a few tries to see these kinds of patterns, but not knowing what to do when you encounter a boss for the first time doesn't make them unpredictable.

The series has fluctuated in difficulty, and some of the games simply have difficulty spikes
The first zone of any given game is only slightly above kirby-tier, but then sometimes you get shit like metallic madness, Sonic2!metropolis, or Eggmanland
Then some games are just hard in general, usually for bad reasons, Sonic 2 GG and Sonic 06
Or sometimes there's games that stay easy throughout, like Sonic 3 & Knuckles or Sonic Colors
Sonic has a huge identity crisis with his franchise and difficulty is but one small piece of that cowpie

*too

You did.

Sonic was built on arcade-style culture. You fail, you try again. You fail, you try again. Over time you get better and eventually you're a fucking pro at it.

Modern gamers get confused by this style of gaming and so they think a game is "too hard" if you actually have to fail a few times to master something. This is why people think Dark Souls is hard, when really it's just a different style of gameplay and structure that we don't have a lot of anymore.

>Blaze is in the future.
Aside from 06, Blaze was always from some alternate dimension, which is why she barely shows up.

She is in the future. In a future Sonic game I hope.

They've been brainwashed into thinking it's "hold right to win", when really it's supposed to be "roll to win".

I genuinely believe this is what the problem is. None of these niggas ever just press down. I watched one of those "Teens React" videos the other day (I know, I'm awful) where they got a bunch of teenagers to play Sonic 1. I did not see a single intentional roll in there, despite it being the best tool for gaining speed and the best defense against pretty much everything that isn't spikes, lava or a death pit.

Some games in the series this is actually a big problem, though not when it's on the scale you're implying
>all that shit that slows you down in Sonic 1 to the point where half the zones are a slog
>Sonic Heroes giving every enemy health and having sections where you fight a bunch to proceed like this is some kind of beat-em-up
>Rush adding in that beat-em-up shit to a 2D game like it'll work any better
>Sandopolis making you realize how fucking slow pushing shit is in that game
That last one is a really easy fix too, shame

>it does not matter if SEGA releases the most impressive Sonic game in the world, critics will always say Sonic was never good

I wouldn't take much stock in the """"critics"""" opinions when they play the game like this

Is your name Sonic? No? Then you're not going to be playable in a future 3D Sonic game. That's the world we live in. Sorry.

You're one of the smart ones. Hold onto that.

Strange, isn't it? Grr.

No they were not unless you were an adult back then. I can breeze through them now but when I was a child I got many game overs.

>forgot boom exists

>SEGA releases the most impressive Sonic game in the world
>Classicfags, Adventurefags, or Boostfags will still complain depending on what kind of game it is.

Why didn't they just spindash? Is it not in the level?

Even I know they're just testing the physics

and I hate IGN

I refuse to believe someone is this retarded. But then again, there is footage at Gamespot of the reviewer dying to falling platforms he should be running on instead of jogging in Sonic Lost World.

not an argument.

>A shitty Ratchet & Clank ripoff made by Naughty Dog's backwash counts as a main entry to the series.

polygon trying to play doom 4.webm

If only. The full version of the video has them being bad beyond belief in numerous places. They struggle with this loop until the booth guy actually explains to them how to spin dash (you can hear this faintly). They then proceed to fuck up on the very next loop in the level too

Except for Mania and whatever goes next. Because that shit will sell and Sega will not have a choice to not keep doing 2d Sonics as digital.

>Mania
I said 3D, dingdong.

this nigga gets it

>Sonic games were considered some of the easiest games back in the day

>Retro Engine is perfectly capable for mobile games, as proven by CD, 1 and 2
>Sonic Mania isn't coming to phone
I'm still mad about this.

If you own a PC of any kind then it's likely going to run Mania just fine. This isn't exactly Crysis we're talking here.

I own all of the platforms Mania is coming out on (apart from Switch obviously), I just like having Sonic on my phone. The one-button one-pad nature of the controls, plus the added convenience of save files in the Taxman versions, makes it one of the few comfy mobile games out there.

>watching a review of a sonic game

I'm sure crazy Sonic fans will port it over themselves. If they can port all of Unleashed to the Generations engine then it shouldn't be too hard for 'em.

Because archaic lives/continues system is too much for the queers that are playing games nowadays.

That's why Sonic 3 is loved so much more by the way, just letting you know. A reason no one ever seems to bring up or mention even though that's a major reason people love Sonic 3 more.

And then after that, Sonic became insultingly simple and easy where you never actually get a game over ever again.

>Watch nephew play vidya.
>Dies once.
>Immediately gives up and switches to another game.

>That's why Sonic 3 is loved so much more by the way, just letting you know.
Yeah, it totally couldn't be because of all the refinements in pretty much every single department.

That must be why idiots love Sonic 3 so much-- it's the only classic Sonic with a save system for their casual scum asses.

most games are easier than Sonic now

As a kid, the other games around were still a ton harder.

I'm glad that there are like only four places in Rush that have enemies with health.
really wish Huge Crisis didn't have any places with locked in enemy rooms though, wouldn't have any issue with that stage otherwise

and Mirage Road would still be shit, even without them

I'm actually kind of surprised too. I'm going to play it on PC anyway, but I'd like the option.
it's probably strictly marketing reasons -- if Sonic Mania was available for phones, people would think of it as a phone game

it'll be kind of hilarious to see Taxman's reaction if someone ports the stages in Mania back to the Genesis games
really, other than color, you could port every individual stage to the machine (although you'd have to do shit like the scaling/rotation by just having a shit-ton of pre-drawn frames in ROM)
even Sonic's smooth Mania animation isn't impossible, MarkeyJester made a hack that's Sonic 1 with really, really smooth sprites (ages before Mania was announced)

the only particularly hard bit of Metallic Madness is the beginning of round 3
fuck that thing

and maybe the final boss, I never did learn how to do it without getting hit

as a kid, I was so glad when I realized that they weren't actually random
it's a fairly nervewracking fight just because it's one of the handful of times you don't have any rings
was so fucking mad when I breezed through Sonic 2 and Knuckles and then Knux couldn't jump high enough to hit final boss robotnik, you have to wait for his crouch and I kept fucking that up

I didn't say they didnt improve stuff.

But I did say the save system is one of the main reasons people love sonic 3 so much that they don't want to admit because it makes them a "casual".

>That's why Sonic 3 is loved so much more by the way, just letting you know
Bit of an oversimplification. Personally I love it over the rest of the classics because it has better Special Stages, I like the minibosses, I like the alternate paths as Knuckles and it has Ice Cap and Lava Reef, two of the most badass stages in all of platforming history with some of the best music in vidya to boot.

The save files are convenient too, though.

>I didn't say they didnt improve stuff.
Point is, you're ignoring all the improvements done to music, graphics, level design, story, etc. just to push your stupid idea that the reason people like Sonic 3 is because of the save system.

I said "a reason."

And "one of the main reasons."

As in, there are other reasons to love Sonic 3.

>That must be why idiots love Sonic 3 so much-- it's the only classic Sonic with a save system for their casual scum asses

Sonic CD has a save system as well.

By that logic, Crash 1 is a better game then Crash 2 and Crash 3, because it's save system is not proper at all, and the other two games didn't have any other improvements besides a proper save system.

Which is still false unless you can prove otherwise. Irrelevant too, since we live in a world with save states and where the latest release of the classics have save systems of their own.

But all of those were a huge downgrade from Sonic 2.

>implying sonic wasn't always shit

t. contrarian

When I was a child I could breeze through them.

The old games just made you hit down after getting some momentum until the level ends while the new games just make you hold square until the level ends.

Go away Arin

>Some of the easiest games back in the day
who said this

They are, though. If you want something actually difficult you should play Alien Soldier or Rocket Knight Adventures.

>Dies again.
>whines in frustration
>looks like he's about to cry
>shuts system off with disc still in
>goes into living room and watches minions.

People only play fps games or are literalyl brain dead. You have legitimate retards saying the controls are hard in the 3D games for example, or sonic goes to fast. Why do you think every game after unleashed cut the speed in half, made it simpler and more 2D, put big warning signs every where, and told you when to use other moves, even going so far as to limit them (colors)?

Sonic simply takes to much intelligence to play and when baddies suck at something, they call it bad

*their

Part of the problem is input lag. They play on emulators and LCD screens. It actually does make games a lot harder, because you cannot physically react as fast enough when you're getting the visual information too slow.

Other other half of the eqation is that modern gamers are just shit and I do not mean to underplay that fact. But that's not ALL there is to it.

>and you've never seen these bosses before,
So you learn, by dying if neccesary. You're not supposed to be able to beat them on your first try, why would you expect that?

Nothing is predicable if it's new to you, what a bloody stupid thing to say.

What kind of shit emulator do you use

Also I don't think you know what input lag is

Sonic 3k's final boss let's you have a shield and rings if you're good enough.

I don't think YOU know if you're going to claim any USB device doesn't suffer from it.

And yes, the LCD problem should be called 'output lag' but nobody bloody calls it that do they, so I used a term people do know.

nigga gotta earn your fast

>bloody stupid

Britbong confirmed.

So then the problem is not with emulators is it, it's with shitty controllers and other such input methods

>so I used a term people do know.
How about you instead use the proper terms for things

Why do you think humans refer to different things in different ways

I'm going to admit this is why I liked Sonic 3 and Knuckles the best at a kiddo. I could go back and play the stages I wanted after I beat the game. In Sonic 1 and Sonic 2 I had to start from the beginning and slog through stages I didn't like to play because I never knew about the hidden stage select commands.

I never touched Sonic 1 and didn't even know about the last two Zones since I fucking hated Labyrinth zone and Marble Zone with a passion.

Here's your problem: sonic 1 is trash.

You are trash.

Sonic 1 is the best classic Sonic game.

you mean cock suckfaggot and dickinbutt sailors 3000? no thanks. I'll stick to my blue hedgehog cock and pink amy pussy.

I always find it hard to believe hardcore gamers like AVGN and Mike who can beat Megaman with ease, but have a hard time on Sonic 06.

one blemish on an extremely enjoyable game hardly make the game hard. The fucking boss in Labyrinth zone is harder if you die because you can't grab any extra rings.

Despite the unfair enemy placement in Metropolis zone you really only need one ring, and some of the more tricky jumps are just those blocks where you have to wait for the spear to go away.

You say that like Megaman is hard.

lol

I hate the touch screen bullshit. The only way I'd play it on my phone is if my Galaxy S Relay with the qwerty keyboard decided to start working again.

Gee, I'm sorry I wasn't clear enough sensei.

I never stated that emulators themselves were the problem, but they generally are run with hardware that does cause problems and I don't really see the need to fill my posts with seemingly needless explainations until some nitpicker comes along and has to call me out on it.

>Metropolis
>a blemish

Metropolis is the best zone in the game.

But then, every stage in Sonic 2 is beautiful and great.