It's 2017 and there are still people who are dense enough to think that this is actually Sephiroth and not Jenova...

It's 2017 and there are still people who are dense enough to think that this is actually Sephiroth and not Jenova assuming Sephiroth's form

Sephiroth was dead a long!

>merely pretending

it's the oppoisite idiot

Wait isnt that Hojo?

Yeah, didn't the game obviously tell/show you that Sephihurr was in that ice area or whatever this whole time? The only time you see him was in that backflash and as final boss.

Its 2017 and there's still people arguing over the story of FFVII.

Okay Sup Forumsirgins let's settle this by putting together the evidence.

iirc Sephiroth was a Human who was injected with Jenova cells as a fetus making him a hybrid.
He originally behaved like a normal person, but seemed pretty reserved in the flashback scenes in FFVII.
But after discovering his origins he has some kind of mental breakdown.
So from what I remember Cloud kills Sephiroth in the reactor and throws him into the mako pit which is connected to the lifestream.
The lifestream is some weird river or rather ocean of ancient souls and is connected to the planet and all life on it.

what else?

>people still don't understand that it's sephiroth's will and consciousness driving Jenova (which is basically a bundle of cells without a F#@$'n Head) because he merged with its actual head in the reactor after Shish-Cloud-bob throws him into the lifestream, explaining why it looks like sephiroth, and how sephiroth can direct Cloud and the other clones to the REUNION to make himself a god

>which is basically a bundle of cells without a F#@$'n Head
Cid calm down and take your meds

>Lack of comprehension skills
I deem you retard for life.

GO MAKE THE GODDAMN TEA

They better have GODDAMN TEA in the remake

you know what I love the most about GODDAMN TEA?
It shows us that Cid is just a straight up asshole.

If he had said GODDAMN BEER then the player could've made the connection that he's some abusive drunkard so there might be some excuse for his acitons.
but by having Cid ask for tea it just shows him to be a straight up ass.
This make his character arc stronger when he becomes somewhat nicer.

So why was Jenova such a goddamn asshole, anyway?

It always cracked me up when you run into "Sephiroth" in the Nibelheim mansion and he beans Cloud with that materia and then flies away like Superman

Flows all the way to northern crator.

All Jenova'd cunts get lured there for funsies.

(I fully accept that I may miss a detail here and there, or have mistaken my own headcannon for actual lore, correct me as needed)
>Jenova was kind of like The Thing, but with more boobies, and fell to earth like, a million years ago.
>The Ancients/Cetra/New Age Retro Hippies somehow beat it thanks to the planet, but like every JRPG plot, couldn't kill it, so they sealed it away in Santa's Workshop. And by seal I mean freeze. And by Santa's Workshop, I mean it's fucking cold.
>A billion years later, Shinra finds the frozen alien carcass, and immediately brings it home and injects people with it, along with a dose of radioactive spider venom pulled from the planet, in the form of Mako, which is also a treatment nomie-supermen get
>These people get super-powers, but also become part of The Thing.
>When Seth Rogan got stabbed by Jean Claude and hurled into the Lifestream, Jenova got to mainline Radioactive Spider Venom for a decade
>By the time the game starts, Jenova has shot up enough juice, and wants to blow up the planet so it can go find a new one to eat, like Lavos, but with boobs.
>Black Materia does that. For some reason.
>The Thing sends some of its biomass, in the form of Seth Rogan, to recover its core biomass, collect the black materia, and blow this hotdog stand and get back to space so it can nomnom on the squats, then Spira
>And Jenova would have gotten away with it if it weren't for Avalanche and their stupid dog.

Wasn't Sephiroth controlling Jenova from within the lifestream at that point? She was a long dead lifeless husk after being experimented on by Hojo

I think it's the other way around, m8.

I think over the course of the game Sephiroth and Jenova went through a power struggle.

One of the two must've definitely had the power in their symbiotic/parasitic relationship, but near the end one of them was subservient to the other.
I think the game starts off with Sephiroth having more control of himself, but with Jenova as some kinda voice in his head(similar to amnesiac cloud having "real" Cloud's voice in his subconscious)
By the end Sephiroth has lost it to Jenova and has become another corrupted lifeform, I think this works considering the abominations he transforms into for the final boss.

I think the struggle ended when Sephiroth died.
I'm not even sure the thing you see for most of the game actually IS Sephiroth, just some meat Jenova is controlling that has been shaped like him.

>So from what I remember Cloud kills Sephiroth
Did he?
I don't recall, I assumed Zack did that.
Or does Cloud do it in the mook minion outfit after seeing Tifa stabbed?

>I think the struggle ended when Sephiroth died.
This makes more sense, FFVII's world doesn't allow for reincarnation, once people died they died, however I think Sephiroth is a special case because of his origins.

I think it may be definitely possible that his consciousness somewhat remained inside of his body after Jenova started parroting it around.

I believe Mook Minion Cloud was in fact the killer of Sephiroth.

Why does Black Materia even exist?
For fucks sake why does the planet need a self-destruct button?

>Or does Cloud do it in the mook minion outfit after seeing Tifa stabbed?
yeah.
In the reactor Sephiroth stabs Cloud and while Sephiroth is still holding onto the sword Cloud swings it and throws him off balance into the pit.

I might be mixing up how it happened exactly in the game with the anime short, but in both Cloud killed Sephiroth.

Well, it needs one button to release the krakens and purge life from its surface, and then it needs the other black button when it realizes it doesn't want to live on this planet anymore, then it needs the white button to say "lol, jk, not ded".
Fucking planet playing fucking tricks on mere mortals.
Shinra was right.

Because it was built by dwarfs

I feel retarded for not realising this before, why didn't I question this as a kid.
>Sephiroth is running around
>Wtf why is he in a block of ice now

Don't beat yourself up too bad. The game only had a 6/10 localization, quite a few bits of important information were lost behind bizarre translated gibberish
My understanding of the plot comes almost entirely from secondary sources.

I vote dead, and not even the real villain. Sephy was just a convenient tool for Jenova.

This actually means Sephiroth is a bitch, since Sephiroth's peak feat is oneshotting a green dragon, and is weaker than Cloud when wearing his faceless guardsman outfit.

lel

How mad will you faggots be if they retcon Hojo being the biological father of Sephiroth and it's actually Vincent in the remake?

I feel like I've seen this post before.

incredibly angry.

I would prefer that

For some reason I always thought it was one of the black robed dudes who was being controlled and made to look like Sephiroth.

Or maybe it was just a ghost made by Seph's mind powers.

Jenova makes some sense too because after he leaves there's a line of text attributed to Jenova that seems like something Sephiroth should have said.

Fuck this game is weird.

I'd actually be ok with that. It's not like Hojo gave Sephiroth his hair color.

It's likely going to happen.

Pretty on point. Just gotta add that Shinra thought Jenova was a cetra which is why they used her cells for testing.

but he looks nothing like vincent

He looks nothing like hojo

He doesn't look like Hojo either.

he has hojo's bangs tho

>replays this game after years
>reacts exactly like you as a kid
wtf i hate my brain cells now

>sephiroth was a human
you already fucked up user. he's an ancient/alien hybrid.

and OP is correct, up til cloud frees actual sephiroth on disc 2.

More importantly, do you think Elena became a more competent Turk afterwards?

I hope she gets more screen time in the remake

No he didn't

Sephiroth is the child of Hojo and Lucrecia. Two fucking humans.

But he's human. His parents are human. Actually play the game.

More Elena and Tseng would be appreciated.

It's 2017 and there are people who still argue over Babby's First RPG

>actually play the game
I don't see how getting the icicle inn pre game backstory shit wrong (+ tie ins from dirge) means I never played it.

im sure i've had this argument before aswell, hes not human because of all the genetic fuckery involved, and lucretia was affected before the birth.

that would have been better than the actual plot

im also into the ultimecia=future rinoa

The point was he was born 100% human from human parents Hojo and Lucrecia. The thing with the Jenova cells is just extra but his mom and dad were both human. He wasn't born from aliens like he thought. Just given injection of alien cells.

>im also into the ultimecia=future rinoa

That's as likely as Vincent = Sephiroth's real daddy.

if we're going with the planet=alive theory, we could say that is has a formed of programmed death built into it like cells.

that would imply that the planet is also part of a greater life form (cosmos/universe), probably

Isn't that outright stated in and basically the plot of Dirge of Cerberus?

could i add
>at the end of the game, the "vision fight" with omnislash is against the ego of the actual sephiroth, and not Jenova who mantled him for the main game plot. cloud and sephiroth settle their differences and resolves the confrontation they had at the nibelheim reactor

the programmed death part, I think yeah. I dunno why it has programmed death into it in the context of the story.

DoC did a sloppy job explaining everything. Then again it was a sloppy game.

>if

final fantasy vii is all about changing things from the main game

it happen before

it will happen again

It's Sephiroth reanimating Jenova's dead body and shapeshifting it assume his own form.

There is one very, VERY telling piece of evidence that absolutely destroys the idea that Jenova was in control at any point and time; Jenova's body and the Sephiroth clones all headed to the Northern Crater to Sephiroth's body, NOT Jenova's as Hojo originally predicted they would. In fact, when Hojo realized this at the northern crater during Cloud's meltdown, he went insane with glee, because it opened up an entirely new world of scientific interpretation of Jenova's cells and how they worked, in that they could be controlled by someone else and weren't slaves to the original consciousness. It's also what made him become obsessed with his son, because he realized that Sephiroth himself was the catalyst for his Reunion Theory setting in motion, and his original hypothesis was incorrect. Scientists LOVE it when their hypothesis are proven incorrect because it opens up a new world of scientific possibilities to explore. In that sense, Sephiroth not only became a scientific anomaly, but also proof that there is life after death.

Sephiroth's real body ended up crystalized at the northern crater, towards which the lifestream continuously flows to heal the planet.
The man in a black cloak you are chasing for half the game is actually the headless body of Jenova you saw at Shinra HQ.
The tatooed people in black cloaks are the former residents of Nibelheim, whom Hojo injected with Jenova cells after Sephiroth died.
Cloud was also injected with Jenova cells, which was how he was able to survive mako infusion despite being a girly man.
People injected with Jenova cells were drawn towards the main body of Jenova in Midgar (this was Hojo's "Jenova reunion theory").

Pure speculation: Jenova's dormant body at Shinra HQ was stirred back to life when the last remaining Cetra (Aeris) came near it.

After the mess that was Dirge of Cerebrus, I'd prefer Vincent have nothing to do blood related to any of those weirdos.

Vincent is pathetic.

How badly did that game ruin Lucrecia's character?

>Jenova's body and the Sephiroth clones all headed to the Northern Crater to Sephiroth's body, NOT Jenova's as Hojo originally predicted they would.
Ding ding ding. This right here is a huge piece of evidence that supports Sephiroth being in control, not Jenova.

>main female lead gets stabbed by a trenchcoat katana unsheather
>20 years later main female gets stabed by a trenchcoat fedora

pottery

>There is one very, VERY telling piece of evidence that absolutely destroys the idea that Jenova was in control at any point and time; Jenova's body and the Sephiroth clones all headed to the Northern Crater to Sephiroth's body, NOT Jenova's as Hojo originally predicted they would.

It's amazing how many people forget this one fact.

Pretty fucking badly. From the original interpretation of being a curious scientist focused on her studies and married Hojo out of pity for him to a immature teenaged girl with huge guilt issues, runs away from Vincent and fucks Hojo because "muh guilt for killing Vincent's dad".

It's probably been awhile since the game was played for most people. But yeah I never really got why people thought Jenova was in control. Jenova was never in control.

But they did head for Jenova's body. That's why you find them scattered between Nibelheim and Midgar. Besides Cloud, only the guy in the slums made it all the way to Midgar. After it was reanimated, Jenova's body headed for the second largest concentration of cells, which was Sephiroth in the Northern Crater. It's possible that Jenova was under Sephiroth's influence at this point since it took his form, but remember also that Jenova was known for taking the form of people it came into contact with.

>That's why you find them scattered between Nibelheim and Midgar.
You only find one in midgar, iirc, and the ones in nibelheim all headed there because it was on the way to the northern crater.

I've always wondered if Jenova's female form is it's "real" appearance or just whoever she last transformed into. Is there an answer to that?

Probably the latter. Jenova isn't even really female, strictly speaking.

You see some of them at Niblehiam because that's literally where they're from (survivors of the Nibelheim incident). In Midgar you only see like one of them in the slums, not even near the Shinra HQ building where Jenova was. And both of those cases are nothing compared to the mass exodus you see in the Whirlwind Maze/ Northern Crater where Sephiroth resided.

Oh really?

Ah. It actually totally makes sense now why she was mistaken by Gast for a Cetra, because she had taken on the appearance of one.

Isn't Jenovas head there as well?

I'll admit, I always assumed it was Sephiroth. Looking back, the idea that it was Jenova masquerading as Sephiroth certainly explains all those Jenova fights I kept on getting in.

On a related note, I genuinely thought the Emerald weapon was the same one that had its head blown off by the Junon cannon. The Emerald weapon sorta looks like it's missing its head. It's also a completely different color and shape, but somehow I never let that bother me.

We dint know what Cetra look like besides Aerith and her mom.

Isn't Jade WEAPON the only one you don't get to fight? Diamond is a mandatory fight and Emerald, Ruby, and Ultima were optional fights, Jade just shows up to accidentally free Tifa and get its head blown off.

There's still people who believe Cloud was actually SOLDIER First Class, so yeah.

Sephiroth was the one controlling everything from his sleep, what the fuck

...

Oh, his name is Sapphire. I've always called him Jade.

Jade is an actual WEAPON, it only appears in Before Crisis though.

The remake will have something different controlling him.

There are also people who think that the Sunken Gelnika was actually a boat/submarine.

if Jenova was the one in charge it destroys the entire plot of Cloud wanting revenge and all the stuff attached to it

Diamond was actually added for the international release. In the original Japanese version you only have to fight Ultima in Mideel.

...

Wait, what? I never knew this, got a picture?

Don't worry. Remake will make everything better.

...

>"My father was a B2 Stealth Bomber."

Are the weapons (diamond, emerald, ruby etc.) biological or mechanical ?

There are also people who think that Aerith wasn't a cheap prostitute.

You really think someone would do that?

Just join SOLDIER and then LIE about it?

Alright, so WEAPON.
If we run with the living planet hypothesis, these things are basically white blood cells, yes?
If we do not run with the living planet hypothesis, they fit more into the category that the "Earth" monsters of Godzilla do.

Both of these have an issue because neither one explains why WEAPON completely ignores Sephiroth/Jenova, and goes straight for humans.

Possibility 1: Jenova is literally AIDS and hijacked the planet's immune system.
Possibility 2: WEAPON is really, really dumb/Sephiroth/Jenova is really, really good at hiding, in some mixture of those two things.
Possibility 3: WEAPON is something completely different. We do see Ruby Weapon hanging out at the casino, maybe they have individual motives?
Possibility 4: The planet WANTS to get smacked in the face with Meteor, and is using WEAPON to ensure that outcome
Possibility 5: Plot Hole, do not look directly at this problem.

Or maybe I'm missing something.
Any other musings on WEAPON?

Biological. They're extensions of the Planet, like its white blood cells.