Is he right, Sup Forums? Are combos ruining fighting games?

Is he right, Sup Forums? Are combos ruining fighting games?

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No.

Depends on the combo. Wasting as much time / doing as much damage with like UMVC3 style combos is stupid

If I was this shit at games I'd consider killing myself.

Combos are not a problem, it's how devastating they are that is and some games should be balanced so you don't lose two thirds of your health with no chance of retaliation just you made an incorrect judgment.

Combos are a good mechanic

The only games that are all about combos are Marvel, Skullgirls and some obscure anime fightans.

Combos are fine and fun way for players to play in a way that fits their playstyle. Of course optimal combos exists but I hardly ever go for them. I rather make my own. Though is is only achievable in airdasher in my opinion. Street Fighter is less combo heavy so there isn't really much difference in what you do to execute them.

But combos should be balanced around the damage though. Honestly, with certain resources and situation, I'm fine with combo taking 3/4rds of a health bar but that should be exceptional situation.

mahvel 3's problems come from back scaling and hitstun decay

Best game/scoring system coming through.

Shame it was on the worst possbile system for fighting games and never got a remake.

>The good old days before combos
So what, Street Fighter 1?

salad dodging

lmao 100% damage shoryuken

Fighting games fucking suck.

When you were fucking 6 years old playing tekken mashing the controller trying to do cool shit... now that was fun.

The minute somebody know's any of the combo inputs the games are trash tier. What kind of fucking poindexter takes the time to memorize fucking command lists? Get a life virgin.

git gud faget

I didn't know about combos back when i played SF2 on the SNES, it wasn't until i played SFEX on the PS1 that i learned what a combo was

Combos are good when there's decision making in them based on the situation the hit happened in, the resources available to both players, and the end result the attacking player wants to enforce

They're not good when there's no branching patch and no interesting resource management.

This guy just wants to go back to Street Fighter 1, not zero or alpha, but the FIRST goddamn Street Fighter

>There is a reason why games like League of Legends have 80 million players and Street Fighter V has barely 100 players
>tfw you will never be this retarded

Perhaps it's for the best that fighting games are dying off if the alternative is LuL

Just wait until the LoL fighter comes out.

>he doesn't understand exaggeration

Looks like you're the retarded one.

>they didn't teach him reading comprehension in elementary school
nope, that's you

>me ooga
>game booga

>everything is literal because I said so

Nope, that's you.

see

I think "zoning" is what really ruins fighting games. Fighting games are about actually fighting, about getting into your opponents face and hitting them with something unexpected, always trying to out think them. So for what purpose would people actually design characters that are supposed to """zone""" A.K.A spam projectiles from a distance non stop. It's just anti-fun in every regard.

>reading youtube comments
>taking youtube comments seriously
Literally worse than reading Sup Forums posts.

see

Westerners will never understand, appreciate, or develop good fighting games.

It's why they consider For Honor to be an example of an amazing game, and why SFV, designed for America first, is fucking awful.

Until Americans are willing to deal with the concept of neutral game, it will forever be a dead genre in the West's eyes.

I kind of agree, but I think grabs are a bigger problem

Grabs are completely unfair game design for spammers that break the strategic flow of offense and defense, they're ruining fighting games especially nowadays when you can combo someone for 50% of their life from a grab in most games

Combos are what make fighting games.

>We've gone from Twitter screencap threads to Youtube screencap threads

That helium canister can't ship soon enough

>Combos are ruining fighting games
The last two popular Capcom games had way more problems with them yet everyone still sucks their dick pre-V.
>Marvel is so fucking bad with the pressure and ohkos, neutral basically doesn't exist
>SFIV has a horrendously inconsistent execution barrier where you need to learn super precise timing for every other matchup and character's basic BnBs, but specials are the easiest of any game, including Melty Blood where it's programmed to be playable on keyboard.
Meanwhile people who shit on Blazblue and other "anime fighters" haven't played them at all.

>Using precious helium to end your life

Just one more thing your existence has robbed from the world.

>including Melty Blood
>mfw there are people who can't pull off the game's specials properly

No. He literally has no idea what he is talking about
>Reading Youtube comments
Lel.

I'm not big into fightan but reading this thread so far the main problems of FGs seem to be:

>combos
>zoning
>grabbing

so I think pic related would solve FGs?

ITT: Casuals who can't play fighting games

melty blood DPs are legit more difficult than in any other game I played for some reason

No, it's just an example of "i'm bad at the game so i'm gonna blame my lack of skill in a mechanic that i don't like"

He is right, atm you are either fully invested in fighting games or not at all. There's no middle ground for people who want to play a variety of genres.

I think he means yie-ar kung fu

So what's the latest spicy meme for non-players to bitch about as an excuse to why they aren't playing ?

I kinda stopped paying attention when
>MUH NEUTRAL
was the latest fad

Good god someone just Za Warudo-Road Roller combo this bitch

that's patently false

Well Rock'em Sock'em Robot Arena was pretty cool

The fuck you on about. I play variety of genres and I still have fun with fighters. I pick up new fighters, play them for some months and then move to other games. I can still enjoy them but of course I won't be up there regarding skill.

youtube.com/watch?v=jkW03kGG4VI

>All words are literal

You are actually the dumbest man that ever lived.

>stun
Remove that too. It's not fair when you forgot to block and get stunned out of nowhere

>back in the day, before combos were a thing

what is "back in the day" ? street fighter 2? you mean the game where dee jay can dizzy you in one combo and then kill you in a second?

youtube.com/watch?v=Lo7K-VXtGO0

...

nah, oldschoolfbb is delusional.
>i have better positioning, better reactions, better strategy, better EVERYTHING but still lose!!!!

SFV has the easiest combos to date due to the input buffer.
You could 100-0 players with one touch back in sf2 with a decent combo, but you weren't playing against good players back then, you were playing against your shitty friends.

Oh come on is that all I get

Nope, combos are good in most games, in some games you might be able to argue that they're a bit redundant, but in most games, and in most situations, combos serve a reward for taking more risk.
In the context of, say, SFV, if you're playing Ryu for example, staying at range and going for cr mk xx qcf hp will always do far less damage (and in some cases won't even actually combo) than getting deep with a jump-in or getting a crush counter and doing something bigger, without that kind of incentive for taking risk, nobody will take that risk.
In the context of Tekken, you need to use launchers that in all situations have disadvantages to the rest of their moveset, but that incentive to use those worse moves makes the game much more interesting, I'm not going to try to bait out moves to try and whiff punish with a jab or 2, AK's not going to dash into people's faces for a solid 5 seconds just to get a df1 or d4.

classic fighting games were even more bullshit than the modern ones

I think that dude was like me He played SF2 on the SNES when he was a kid and was "the best" amongst his friends, years later he sees that SF4 has been released and thinks "oh yeah, i was really good at this game back in the day!" then he searches for some videos and comes across a Chun-li combo video made by desk, he gets intimidated and thinks that this is practical or required to be good at the game and starts whining that "this didn't exist back in the day! :("

That's fucking stupid. What next? Music in fighting games is too distracting? If it was up to morons like him then fighting games would be bare and empty.

What a fucking idiot.

There's something really depressing whe you are trying to learn the game and some faggot with a thousand hours clocked in just takes out 3/4rd of your lifebar while you are just there powerless, watching as someone tears you a new one without any possibility to retaliate.

>you are just there powerless,
You fucked up when getting hit. Learn from it and don't do it again. You always have the power to learn. Use it.

>You fucked up when getting hit

Sure. Fighting games are so fun when people are just turtling faggots.

Why do people try so hard to get fighting games to casualize? It's one of the only few genres which for the most part have stuck to their roots and haven't tried to dumb things down to an absurd degree like a lot of other genres.

But fightan gaems sole gameplay is doing doing the combos. If you don't like doing combos then why the fuck are you playing fightan gaems? Street Fighter doesn't even have a fucking singleplayer campaign anymore (hint: it would be about how M. Bison is the baddest motherfucker ever and hadokenspam faggot hadokens his way all the way to Tibet and then hadokens him. the end.)

>you are never allowed to get hit

I know about the whole gitting gud part, I was just pointing out that getting your character utterly destroyed like that because of how devastating combos can be sucks dick.

At least if combos are reasonably implemented you sort of have a chance to fight back or at least the illusion that you have a chance.

>Street Fighter doesn't even have a fucking singleplayer campaign anymore

Thats why its a dead game.

You can still play fighting games like that, just don't play with someone who knows how to play 'em.

When people complain about "long stringed combos taking 60% of my health" I can't help but just stop caring about anything else they say. Combos involve only so many buttons and a command or two. Marvel and Anime fighters have some of the longer ones, but those games have larger health bars to compensate. The matches go longer to allow you the opportunity to come back, not to mention COMEBACK mechanics are literally a thing that exist now.

The argument falls apart when the person is reminded that they two have the same tools. But fighting games aren't about flash, it's about optimization. What is the best thing you can do in the moment you're in. It's not just a combo, sometimes it's just the neutral game.

Anyways, I already wasted enough of my time making a point that most here would agree with. Not like this faggot will ever see it.

>they killed combos in hack and slash games
>now they want to kill combos in fighting games
This people will never stop.
Still agree with this, shit balance will be allways shit.

He is right about the "look up combo on the internet" thing.
Do you guys remember Killer Instinct? The original one from decades ago. Now that game had some crazy combos with 40+ hits. We also didn't have the combos available on the internet back in the 90s.

I remember playing in the arcade, people had their own combos, even entire arcade communities had their own and different combos. Getting someone to teach you one was an honor. I remember a friend teaching me some dumb 42-hit ultra combo on Orchid, it was like getting presents for Christmas.

Yeah Street Fighter 1 was so much better than Street Fighter 2.

The thing is there is some expectation that a player actually learn their character. Combos come naturally with familiarity as to what normal cancels into what special, and then experimenting further from there. The games provide some tools in helping people figure this out, but they demand more in depth tutorials to have this spelled out for you.

I think that defeats the real joys of the genre that helped it shine "back in the day." Playing people and becoming so comfortable with your character that everything just becomes second nature.

Granted this is harder for new players to accept, especially these days when every game is about instant gratification, but the challenge will always come in playing people, making the reward that much sweeter.

I remember the same from king of fighters.
Even with the imput buffer, some combos are based on that mechanic, and some managed to do almost infinite ones.

Except it does have a story mode and it is certainly NOT why the game is shit.

It does have a single player mode though

>campaign
I will never understand you people. The game had character prologues, that yes, were easy mode, but have since made less brain dead. The even added a full cinematic mode that had me pleasantly surprised, allowing you to play different characters in different scenarios. That also had an Extra mode for a harder challenge and added handicaps to some fights.

Survival is there for people who want arcade like ladders at different difficulties.

Honestly what difference would an arcade mode make at this point? All it would truly do is make character story and survival even more redundant. You get more out of playing other people anyways.

Were people this adamant about campaigns when Overwatch launched?

>overwatch campaign
you think they will allow such complains?
>story not included, sold separatedly
Like fucking batteries in toys.

The only games where combos are an issue are games like UMvC3, Tekken Tag Tournament2 and shit like Injustice, where you can just get hit once and put down your pad for a minute,
Good games have cancels/burst or just damagin BUT short combos, it's stupid to completely remove one player from the game for 30 seconds.

>sold separately
Story mode was a free update.

>That guy using SF5 as an example

Jesus christ how much of a turbo scrub can you even be?

SF5 has piss easy execution, i have overall rather mediocre fighting game execution.
But i have no problem getting any combo i want in SF5.

If you cannot remember the 4 hit combos in SF5 and execute them you might have braindamage.

My issue with Injustice, beyond the fact that I cant stand how NRS games feel, is how long those cinematic supers feel...Really takes me out of it.

Yeah, most SF5 combos can be straight up mashed out with no timing.

My execution isn't great either--I play low-execution characters in legit fighting games--and SF5's non-execution bored the shit out of me.

Does it have a SP campaign now?
Still, even the unreal tournament story was bland, just to have a background on why are they fighting.

For real SFV was made for whimps like him to be eased in.

And if you get your ass kicked in SFV you fucking deserved it there's literally no whining of unfair combos in that game.

The problem with SFV was the botched launch, it's a solid game and anyone who's still crying that Street Fighter IV is better is fucking stupid.

Well that just shows that the people in that comment section dont know jackshit about the genre, but still want it adapted to what they think is best.

The problem is that they dont even understand the consequences of what they want. They are bad in a competitive game and their ego cant comprehend that they just might not (yet) have what it takes to win.

So obviously its the games fault, because they have been told they are special and smart! And so they cannnot possible have lost because they made a mistake of any kind.

SUPERIOR

LIMB

BASED

COMBAT

>now
It's had it since June of last year.

Yes they are exactly like superior limb based combat shitposter, they dont understand the game well enough to make suggestions, but they actually think they do.

I always find it amusing when people who are bad like this guy complain about combos and people who can "memorize" them. It comes across as extremely unaware that most combos are about strings that get tied together by different moves for different situations.

Besides that, it also just plainly shows how much time and effort they believe other people should into the same interest they have.

Gotta protect those special snowflake feelings i guess.

>waaaaah combos

I understand complaining about games where combos go on too long and lead into more bullshit oki so that you are constantly on the defensive after getting hit once.

But the only people who complain about the very concept of combos are complete shitters that want to tell themselves they would totally outsmart and dominate everybody if only the execution part was removed from Fighting Games.

Yeah there's problems with being "locked forever" in a combo. Most games don't have good enough escape tactics.

But combos are fun, and have been since they were unintentionally introduced. Don't pretend where every match is decided by mental rock paper scissors is fun either.

I don't like tank top dance revolution

The reason i stopped playing skullgirls. There is no counter for a 34 combo and no beginners left to play with, the community is very small.

Combos are fine if they have a coherent chaining system.

Mortal Kombat and Netherealm developed games for the longest time do not have such a thing.

My fingers get so tired playing NRS games. Always feels like I'm fighting against the game to make something work.

>that was a very good move!

>combos
>not rigid setplay and few defensive mechanics

Only bad thing about combos are the shit you find in anime games like instant tks,microdashes,stutters,height delay character specific,x state only combos,IADs and all that other dumb shit that only gooks with 300 dollar sticks would ever do.

There are absolutely plenty of anime players who play on pad.

Everything you mentioned are entirely possible on pad and are pretty normally done by any half competent player.

devs need to adapt the stylish option that BB has. you can do super by holding some buttons for a small time. you have preset combos and things like. that will resolve this shit. they are lucky that this whole esport shit is generating money for them.

>any half competent player

While I agree its possible on PAD because I played some of those games. Its not really the best option and its not really any half competent player that can do these things. You can see anywhere people asking for help or trying their hardest to get through these execution barriers. You can easily dismiss those mechanics I listed as not being that hard but the proof is there looking online in the and in the dwindling player base. Most anime games now are even trying to stray from that but do to the nature of the movement and how strings are formed it will always be prevalent.

Persona Arena and Dengeki Bunko are basically "Stylish Mode: The Fighting Game".