Dark Souls: the objective truth

DS2 > DS3 > DS1

Prove me wrong
>you can't

DS2 has:
>the best replayability in ng+ cycles
>fluid controls if you're not a nostalgia-goggling faggot and actually get used to the pacing like any other game
>UI that isn't an absolute travesty like DS1's is
>the greatest build variety out of any of the Souls games
>the most numerous AND viable spells/miracles/hexes so every caster aren't exact carbon copies of you
>the highest number of unique weapons/armour with special effects
>highest number of viable weapons/armour period each well suited to their role
>best netcode to date
>no twinking unless you use souls at maximum efficiency to stay low on soul memory, and even then don't have the huge advantage early game that they do in DS1 and DS3 because you can't avoid increasing your bracket into where everyone else is
>doesn't kick you to the title screen if you randomly disconnect and have to run through enemies again
>worst bosses (congregation, etc) don't come close to the hot mess DS1's worst bosses are (moonlight butterfly, bed of chaos, etc)
>some of the best bosses in all of Souls (Ivory King, Sir Alonne, Sinh the Actual Dragon Fight, Lost Sinner especially in NG+, Aldia, the shards of Manus, etc)
>the most bosses in all of souls
>self-contained story that introduces cycles, the futility of linking the fire, and breaking the Undead curse
>unique PVE covenants like Champions and Pilgrims of Dark
>Plenty of PVP/co-op covenants to facilitate how good DS2 is with pvp
>Although not as many options as DS1, there are still multiple to progress to your goals
>best hub: Majula
>delayed estus that make invasions worthwhile and healing strategic
>instead of humanity to heal you instantly like in DS1, there are consumable lifegems that are much, much slower
>the longest, most satisfying, well-designed, unique and aesthetically impressive DLC out of all 3 DS games, showcasing Yui Tanimura's full potential if he had been the director from the beginning

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Absolutely right OP. Shame its dead.

DS3 is the worst and DS2 is equal to DS1, for different reasons.

DS2SOTFS has around the same players as DS1, 2-3K.

DS3 barely hits 7K and it came out a year ago, the lack of replayability killed it in record time, both DS1 and DS2 had at least 10K one year in.

Why put so much afford on shit posting?

Absolutely true

>Its another "user uses PVP to defend Dark Souls 2" thread

The same reason he puts so much effort into samefagging his thread, he's autistic

>the most bosses in all of souls
>havong a lot of bosses

you're saying like it's a good thing

>That autistic kid who got really upset last thread
Lol

Dark Souls 2's controls are absolute garbage. They're unacceptably bad and singlehandedly ruin the game no matter what else it might have going for it, and on top of that the content of the game is the worst in the series so it would be the worst game even if it weren't for that. Anybody who denies these facts is a stupid person that is not worth engaging with. The single thing it has going for it is build variety, which doesn't matter since the gameplay is shit in the first place. Oh, and the Righty Ho! gesture.

Didn't even read the OP.

>what is replies to poster ratio

I completely agree.

>Lists shit ton of bullet points
>One of them talks about PvP
>"hurdurr user uses PvP to defend gaem"
Repeat after me
I am a faggot

2 is decent mainly cause of the amount of content desu

my main gripe is controls feel different than 1 and 3, but you get used to it

adp is dumb, should be based on equipment

The variety of weapons and armor was decent.

What I didn't like is that all the holders of the lord souls were crap and most bosses in general are crap.

DLC fixes that significantly and it makes the game jump from 5/10 to 9/10 easily.

DaS2:
>looks like shit
>plays like shit
>has shit atmosphere
>90% of bosses are just big humanoids
This is the objective best tier list and I don't even need to backup my claims since you know I'm right.
DaS1 > DeS > Bloodbourne > DaS3 > SotFS > DaS2

My personal main gripe is that until you essentially max out stats it's impossible to stagger anyone or anything.

So it means that at any point in the game simple mook enemies will always be slapping your shit unless you wait their attacks out, dodge and smack them.
This is extremely annoying since the game also throws at least a couple of them at you at a time.

Even though the combat dynamic of the game is different I recently played Bloodborne and in each area you were always given some mook-type enemies that you can easily stagger and combo just so it contrasts with enemies that you can't. It's just more pleasant when you can mix it out a bit.

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DS1 fags always turn blind eyes to the unforgivable steaming piles of shit in it

Why people care about this series at all is beyond me. Just sounds like a bunch of overhyped, grimdark tripe.

The only legit complaint in that entire thing is the Toxic Dart fags in Blight Town.

It's true, sadly.
DaS1 gets a cultural pass around here because of the state of the industry back then. It's unheard of to hate it.

>sounds like
You mean you haven't even played any of them for yourself? Get the fuck off my Sup Forums.

They're souls likes, just pick one and play. Its whatever. you're going to encounter something, maybe die to it to learn its moveset and then never die to it again outside of being vastly outnumbered and then you beat that because you know whats next.

Its starting to get cringeworthy like survival early access crafting etc games have become. Souls like just means kinda hard enemies that aren't hard after you've fought them once and LOL left your xp back where you died XD go get it.

PVPtard detected.

Go back to your brotherhood of hiv arena with your havelmage ice rapier build (don't forget your monastery scimitar, mundane dagger and great resonant soul) and you can fight the other 10 people that think that game is good.

>PVPtard

Not him, but I love SotFS and I'm strictly offline. The story in all souls games are great.

In this thread we list things Dark Souls 2 did that were far better than Dark Souls 3. I'll start:


>Chugging Estus immobilizes you, and the heal isn't instantaneous meaning trying to chug while someone is sticking close to you will result in death

>Stamina regeneration is tied to weight, so a character at 10% burden will recover their bar faster than a character at 70% burden, giving an advantage and a reason to make a low burden character

>Poise exists and armor provides relevant, but not overpowering damage reduction, giving an advantage and a reason to make a high burden character

>Phantoms and Dark Spirits cannot chug estus, spirits can only heal via spell useage which is slow. This makes fighting outnumbered even without mob assistance possible since any damage you do sticks.

>Can only perform four rolls before running out of stamina

>Can only perform 5 attacks of a rapier or straight sword before running out of stamina

>Parrying has longer recovery frames and consumes more stamina, making parry fishing riskier and makes parrying require higher skill

>Power stance allowing for unique combinations of dual wielding and unlocking an alternative moveset for weapons

>Being able to use the full moveset of a weapon in your off-hand including running, rolling, backstepping, etc. attacks rather than just being able to do a basic R1 swing and blocking with the weapon as it is in Ds3 (lmao who would ever want to weapon block)

>Non-linear first half of the game allows you to rush straight to the areas of the game that contain the items for your build

>Fun PvP covenants that were unique

>Bell Tower covenant providing two unique optional areas to PvP for Titanite Chunks, Slabs, and Twinkling, making farming for upgrades fun

>Bonfire ascetics to replay bosses you like and or gain items from NG+ and beyond without grinding through the whole game again

I agree
Demon's and BB are better than all of them though

You forgot top-tier fashion.

It's just that the Dark Souls games in particular have outstayed their welcome by about 2 games now.

Bloodborne was perfectly fine and it had a much more satisfying overall story, setting and combat.

But in Dark Souls games three fucking games in and you're still fighting the same shitty hollowed soldiers over and over with maybe some rabid creatures thrown into the mix.
Everything that these games were trying to convey was done in DaS1.
And depending on how you interpret the lore even the endings don't matter at all because "oh you kept the flame going/extinguished it? Well fuck you because it ultimately doesn't matter anyway".

>DS
>Great PvE, good PvP

>DS2
>Dogshit PvE, great PvP

>DS3
>Good PvE, shit PvP

Haven't played 3. Is it true that the build variety is shit and pretty much people only play shield + straight sword combo? Why?

>DS2
>Dogshit PvE


But that's wrong faggot.

Tons of people try a bunch of different things despite the lack of build variety. But build variety is lacking because FAI and INT suck, there's no poise, and large weapons don't do enough damage to offset their slowness and stamina usage.

Okay. You are entitled to your opinion, even if it is wrong.

Just sounds like the latest "golden idol" series everyone has to worship, like Persona back in the day or GTA before that.

DS has the worst fucking replayability.

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Ah, I see. What about the pvp? What makes it sucks?

damn, a lot of effort for some bad bait

So you haven't played it?

I haven't done much PvP myself so I don't really know. Something about the covenants being shit, but I don't know why that is.

DS2 also has
>shitty roll animations
>ADP
>retarded backstabs + parries
>guardbreak looks dumb
>boring NPCs that are more like collectibles than actual people
>NPCs that never go hollow or have any development outside "exhaust talk and find in majula"
>terrible item/chest placement
>retarded overuse of bonfires instead of interesting shortcuts to a single or few bonfires
>retarded world and level design that could be fixed so easily e.g. make the elevator in earthen peak go down not up
>emphasis on fighting mobs of enemies rather than 1 on 1 in a game best designed for 1v1 combat
>drags on for way too long after shrine of amana, not helped by linearity of last half of game
>can use weapons in left hand finally, but can't buff
>powerstancing, a good idea executed poorly as it drains much more stamina for slightly more damage than just 2handing
>bear seek seek lest
>no full red eye orb
>durability

I liked dark souls 2 many times more than shitty roll souls 3, but it honestly was an absolute trainwreck. I have no idea why I like it so much, because it really is ass.

you are right on almost everything
>fluid controls if you're not a nostalgia-goggling faggot and actually get used to the pacing like any other game
movement is only in 8 directions and has poor walking animation
>best hub: Majula
in my opinion DS1 firelink was better majula is too big and mostly empty, but i guess this is subjective
>instead of humanity to heal you instantly like in DS1, there are consumable lifegems that are much, much slower
as it's now, lifegems are OP you can use 2-3 while moving away of the enemies and you heal faster than estus, lifegems should either heal MUCH slower or have a low carry limit or a long cool down period between uses

None of those things makes the combat feel good, nor does it make 95% of the bosses good.

>but muh DLCs
The DLCs had 3 great boss fights, thats it.
Also the only fights in the entire game that can be called great to begin with.

DS3 could have been the best if not for OP stamina/rolls and OP estus

PvP is also the worst balanced of the series

Truth. Not one boss from the base game is one I would consider great. I enjoyed a few, like the Throne duo and LGK, but they're really forgettable when compared to the truly great bosses of the series.

Of course I haven't. Looks like the same garbage over and over. I'll watch a playthrough on YouTube if I really want to spend any more time on it.

>variety
>most numest
>highest number
>highest number
>the most
>the longest

This is the issue with Dark Souls 2. It made up for its shortcomings with quantity over quality. DaS2 has the most bosses, and it has some very good bosses, DaS1 also has some pretty bad bosses, but the quality overall in DaS1 is just more consistent despite fluctuating a fair bit. DaS2 has more build variety and more deliberate design decisions to improve PvP, which is a strength for replay value, as well as several minor tweaks to DaS's system that improve the experience in a lot of small ways. But the level design is just worse.

Almost all of Dark Souls 2's improvements were to player ability, and to elongating the experience. The character you create can do more things, and the things your character can do have more value because of better weapon balance. That's great for PvP, but the core of these games is PvE, the singleplayer content. Obviously, build variety and weapon balance are good for PvE, I won't pretend that DaS2's improvement in this area is worthless, but I have very little desire to use any of DaS2's myriad improvements anymore because the level and game structure just isn't as fun. Like, I get it, DaS2 fans like the PvP the most. But it's a side feature.

>self-contained story that introduces cycles, the futility of linking the fire, and breaking the Undead curse

These story elements suck. They're tiring, and make sequels boring because literally everything is futile.

>numest

Numerous, fuck.

the thing with DS2 bosses is that they were trying to solve the issue of players killing every boss by hugging it's ass and circling around it, so the bosses have gimmicks to stop this, the game also tries to teach you to not rely on locking on the enemies (DS2 is by far the best game to play without lockin on)

The best weapon is objectively the dark skull halberd thing

MORTE ET DABOOOOOOOOOO

>DS2 is by far the best game to play without lockin on
If we're counting all five games, I'd actually say Demon's Souls is the best for not locking on.

>oh yaaah bro theres like, fuckloads of everything!!!!

Who cares when 95% of that content is either lackluster, mediocre, or downright bad?
The base game simply does not have a single great boss in it, or a single level with immensely great level design.

Whats the point in slogging through absolute, unfiltered fucking garbage just to fight 3 or 4 decent bosses and see 2 or 3 visually decent levels?

I replayed the game recently and it started being fun 8 hours in, after which the most fun I had was using different armor combinations instead of - well - playing the fucking game.
Even the DLCs are a slog to go through because of legitimately and objectively unfair game design like NPC invaders.

How anyone can defend shit like Maldron is beyond me.

i haven't play DeS so i can't compare them

Well to be fair, it's not really because of enemies but more because of rolling. When locked on I'd try to roll to the left and end up rolling forward. Because of that I never locked on to bosses, or large enemies in general.

I locked on a lot in DS2 though, I didn't really get the vibe of what you were saying aside from when you'd face mobs of enemies.

>implying pvp isn't the main factor keeping soul's games active long after the main story is finished and most players are done with the lore, moving on to the next game when there's nothing else to offer
All the lorehounds spend more time on leddit and jewtube than in the actual game anyway. Without pvp, cut current active players on any of the games by at least 50% at any given time, and you will have the number of people who only enjoy souls for pve.

Maldron is how npc invaders should be, they should have a personality, some of them should be assholes like maldron, others should be honorable or drag you near enemies or abush you.
DS1/3 invaders are boring they are just more mobs to kill

This is not true a lot of the content is quite good in retrospect. EVERY area in Dark Souls 3 is WORSE than DaS2, and no area in DAS2 is worse than the bottom half of DaS1

Trust me, try playing whitout lockin on at all, doging feel much better and you don't even need to roll as you can move more freely, giant enemies are not anoying and ice ponnies and rolling ice rats are actually easy to kill

>EVERY area in Dark Souls 3 is WORSE than DaS2
Obviously subjective, but I highly disagree. Despite their linearity, I thought DS3 had much better level design than DS2, and 2 had very few levels I'd call great.

>no area in DAS2 is worse than the bottom half of DaS1
Demon Ruins/Lost Izalith are the only areas in DS that are worse than the Black Gulch. Frigid Outskirts is the worst in the entire series.

frigis outskirts was trying something new, open areas instead of small rooms and corridors, it didn't succeded but it was refined into what we see in AoA

>"putting tard at the end of everything to create asinine buzzwords validates my vapid opinion"

>NPC invaders should literally be able to cheat game mechanics
uh huh, whatever you say apologist.

when did he cheated?

I get that and I appreciate it, but it was done very lazily and just came out really bad.

>has over 4k HP, way more than a player can have
>can spin 180 degrees DURING ATTACKS and even jumping attacks, something the player can't do
>has 200% more damage than the player for reasons
>inexplicably has hyper armor while not doing an attack

Dude 180 degree tracking 4k hp 2-shot machine NPC invaders are the best lmao

If you think that retard is how NPC fights should be, fuck off. The only game that did NPC fights well was dark souls because in that game the NPCs didn't literally cheat their way to victory, unlike all the other souls games.

Right on OP. Shame most people are addicted to miyazaki cock

>has over 4k HP, way more than a player can have
All npc invaders have shitloads of hp otherwise they would be ridiculously easy
>can spin 180 degrees DURING ATTACKS and even jumping attacks, something the player can't do
all npc can do this, by so it's an established game mechanic even if you don't like it it's not cheating
>has 200% more damage than the player for reasons
again all npc invaders do that, it's called balance
>inexplicably has hyper armor while not doing an attack
you mean poise?
admit it you are just butthurt because you cannot powertrip when facing a slightly hard enemy that you cannot kill by hugging it and circle strafing

>They're tiring

Yet DaS scrapheap was a masterpiece?

You have a human brain though. If that's not enough of an advantage then just fucking quit gaming in general.

>Grimdark
What does this even mean

>The only game that did NPC fights well was dark souls because in that game the NPCs didn't literally cheat their way to victory, unlike all the other souls games.
you mean the game where you could stunlock to death every invader in their spawn point before they could even move? yes very fun and challenging, every invader should be like that

git gud

I don't think anybody is going to argue but DS3 looks the best. Animations, graphics, nice.

Am I the only one who's slightly put off by the somewhat weird animations of DS2?

Hi. My name is Skra and this is my first build.

I started playing Dark Souls Oct 11, 2016. I wanted to role play this game as a knight for no other reason than I like the way knight armor looks. I realize that there are better defensive options. It seems to me that new players almost always tend to make a Giant Dad and I want to do something different. This build is what I have ended up with.

While learning this game, I realized that the Claymore has TWO thrust attacks: a one-handed thrust attack and a rolling two-handed thrust attack. So, whether I’m one-handing or two-handing my Claymore, the Leo Ring bonus damage would always be available to me. It occurred to me that the Leo Ring would go with my build nicely considering that I'm fast rolling in medium armor.

With Charcoal Pine Resin applied and the Leo Ring counter bonus triggered, my one-handed R2 thrust attack does 820 damage against the Cleric in the Darkroot Garden. My two-handed rolling thrust attack does 836 damage against him. The Leo Ring aside, stabbing the Cleric in the back one-handed yields 884 damage, a two-handed backstab yields 901 damage and Riposte is 1048 damage (I used the Cleric for testing because he heals himself). With the Green Blossom and the Grass Crest Shield regenerating my stamina, I rarely find myself unable to use my rolling thrust attack. It's just always there.

I've read in the forums that the contemporary quality build is 27/40 because of the two-handed bonus for strength, but I wanted to make certain that my one-handed thrust attack did as much damage as efficiently possible because the damage bonus granted by the Leo Ring is percentage based. Also, since my two-handed thrust attack requires rolling, I had to figure out a way to get my equipment burden below 25% so that I could fast roll without being too squishy because my vitality is so low.

So, my first build is finished. This is it. It's my Veteran Knight and I love it.
>mmdks.com/8ijr

thanks, last gen consoles

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What am I supposed to be looking at

i still wonder how the lost sinner would have been with the original darkness mechanic
think about it, you could not see her until she's right next and in NG+ fireballs coming from the dark

original/unused areas, much bigger and complex than what we got

It's gonna be the same shit except now you can't see shit

3 is going to get better with the DLC

meanwhile 2 is still fucking shit

even with a fucking remake of the game, how do you even justify that shit

I've been replaying it and i'm having more fun than DaS3

The No Man's Wharf part is just cool. The use of light and the clawy things that are afraid of it makes it feel so alive. There's just more detail in this game.

3's DLC is short and shit

Early map data of the Gutter which was initially more or less Blighttown combined with New Londo.

>fluid controls if

conditionally fluid lmao

literally most of these I have never had a problem with

short but good you mean, aside from sif and midget boss rehash everything else was great

is that aqueduct supposed to be the same we see near shrine of winter?
i remember in early interviews they said you'll be able to skip most of the early game if you were good enough

not an argument
Yes, the only game that made NPCs fight with the same rules as you did NPCs the best, I'm glad we agree.
>being a human somehow makes cheating AI ok and totally not a flaw
Its not difficult, its just not fun.
>all npc can do this, by so it's an established game mechanic even if you don't like it it's not cheating
All of them can do it, that means its okay :)
Even basic enemies track you 180 degrees while you can't do the same, and you people defend it for some reason
>admit it you are just butthurt because you cannot powertrip when facing a slightly hard enemy that you cannot kill by hugging it and circle strafing
I don't fucking care about how difficult he is, I care about WHY he is difficult.

Fighting NPCs isn't difficult, just like everything in Souls games theres multiple ways to make it easy as fuck.

That doesn't change the FACT that the NPCs don't fight with the same rules as you do, which makes for some incredibly annoying and unfun bullshit encounters that simply aren't enjoyable to play against.

Fighting the forest hunters in DS1 is fun and challenging not because they track you MID-AIR with jumping attacks, but because they play by the same rules as you and aren't common enemies. In DS2 they just threw that out the window and allowed NPCs/phantoms to do insane bullshit that is just annoying.

Things I agree with:
>the best replayability in ng+ cycles
>doesn't kick you to the title screen if you randomly disconnect and have to run through enemies again


Thinks I sort of agree with:
>some of the best bosses in all of Souls
>delayed estus that make invasions worthwhile and healing strategic
>instead of humanity to heal you instantly like in DS1, there are consumable lifegems that are much, much slower
>the longest, most satisfying, well-designed, unique and aesthetically impressive DLC out of all 3 DS games, showcasing Yui Tanimura's full potential if he had been the director from the beginning

Things I don't agree with:
Everything else.

Nah

But if you wanna keep yourself contained to your beloved shitpile and I guess we all win.

>Iron Keep
>Shrine of Amana
>DLC shit

At least the blandest parts of DS 1 were skippable in the sense that you could speed run through them. The enemy aggro and lack of fog door invincibility makes it fucking impossible.
And honestly, fuck having more content when it feels derivative and makes the game bloated with pointless shit. DaS1 and DeS still dont feel short on latter playthroughs, especially since theyre so repayable with self imposed challenges and such. Both those games are the perfect length.
Thats the reason I still love DeS, its got all the fundamental parts of Souls games that make them so compelling.
I guess if you want something like Skyrim or Fallout 4, where you play the same game file over and over, you will prefer DaS2.

ds2 positives
>sir alonne
>fume knight
>aesthetics of 2 of the DLCs

fin

does any boss in soulsborne have a cooler intro than the burnt ivory king?

Ludwig the Holy Blade
False King