Can we all agree that wotlk was the cancer that killed wow and cata tried it's best to fix wotlk mistakes but failed...

Can we all agree that wotlk was the cancer that killed wow and cata tried it's best to fix wotlk mistakes but failed, horrible failed

Absolutely bandwagon fags will say it was great though. WOTLK was when the fun stopped for me and I unsubbed. Vanilla was great and bc was pretty great.

>but all that leveling and unclear quests and difficult bosses

yes, thats the fucking point, it felt like you earned it. Especially on a pvp server where you would get ganked and then that would spread into massive world battles.

I fucking hate contemporary snowflake fag shit wow.

Seconding. I unsubbed during WOTLK too.

Specifically, normal and heroic mode raids is what killed the game for me.

It was 3.2.0 aka Trial of the Crusader that started the decline.

> daily reminder everyone's favourite expansion was the one they started on
objectively tbc was the worst as it introduced both the worst and the casual friendly elements to wow
> welfare epics
> flying mounts
> daily quests
> resilience
> removal of 40 mans
> legendary weapon was just an item drop

You are right though, wotlk was shitty except for ulduar, the ICC 5 mans and ICC itself for five minutes. Tanking was patheticly easy and attaining gear made everything a joke

The raid division between normal and heroic is the worst idea they ever had, it killed on the spot most of the appeal of raiding.

>bc introduced welfare epics
>zg and aq20 never existed

Kurinaxx didn't drop any epics worth having and Rajaxx was hard as balls for bads.

ZG, yeah, but even there it was mostly blues unless you PUG could take Mandokir or Tony the Tiger (which, if they could, meant they were decently kitted out already).

The fucking patch with the change to the honor system though. Now that's welfare epics, god damn.

I can agree on that WoW was the cancer that killed the MMORPG genre.

So many fucking WoW copies over the years makes me sick. Also, WoW is the reason EVERYTHING is so casualized nowadays.

TBC was the real start of the decline but the foundations were already laid out when they introduced cross-server features and server transfers.

And since then every MMO has copied the those exact same features and no MMO since then has, or ever will, have any form of community anywhere except when they reach the end of their lifespans and everyone once again gathers on one or two servers that are still alive. Only at that point will you once again actually have some sense of community as opposed to a "click-a-button-to-do-content-with-faceless-people-you-have-no-incentive-of-talking-to" theme parks.

>cancer that killed the MMORPG genre.
That would be eq
>Made themeparks popular
>No reason to interact with others players except for the grouping to kill strong mobs
>Classes could solo to the max level
>Classes isntead of skill system

Honestly, the game has been shit since AQ.

Forgot to add, casual shit like instead of losing all loot you could just run to your corpse after death

What popular game has ever done this apart from Runescape (and to an extent ARPGs like Diablo or PoE on Hardcore mode)?

You simply can't combine that system with raiding for example, or any game that revolves around a bind-on-pickup loot system. And if you make a game like that that doesn't, goldbuyers will thrive.

I am just glad there are no legacy servers. They are just about the only thing that would get me to resubb, and I dont need that in my life.

>What popular game has ever done this
uo
swg(but wasn't very popular)
Most of MuD's of that generation
There wasn't many games with rssurection back then in the first place, and even less mmo in general
But for the mmo I'm pretty sure that eq did it first

All of the early MMORPG had punishable death. Runescape went casual by restricting PvP to Wilderness.

any expansion I didn't like is the reason why x died and y is the best [ insert game ] ever was.

The online world was a simpler place back then though.

Try it now and you'll have endless drama over exploiters and hackers, coupled with goldselling Chinks and whales buying the best gear straight off the bat and re-stocking as soon as they do somehow manage to die. Fucking western servers have top echelon Chinese clans supplied by botters and goldbuyers in many MMOs where gearing revolves around gold and trading.

TBC introduced all the cancer and killed teh game

>Invalidated all previous content
>PVP and PVE are separate
>Instanced PVP
>Focus on raiding as endgame
>Too small and disjointed from the rest of the content which killed the sense of adventure
>Quests are poorly designed, in vanilla theres design to every quest in TBC the quests were just that collect/kill/gather, in vanilla you would need to seek lore relevant NPCs do minidungeons kill zone bosses etc
>Not such a thing in TBC

I hope you will grow up from this phase

>Invalidated all previous content
Pretty sure vanilla did it first with 20 ppl
>PVP and PVE are separate
pvp gave buff against one of the hardest boss in the game until t6
>Instanced PVP
Vanilla
>Focus on raiding as endgame
Pretty sure 5ppl back then was a legit endgame content
>Too small and disjointed from the rest of the content which killed the sense of adventure
what
>Quests are poorly designed, in vanilla theres design to every quest in TBC the quests were just that collect/kill/gather, in vanilla you would need to seek lore relevant NPCs do minidungeons kill zone bosses etc
Same in the BC but even better designed with new features
Quest lines that lead you through all zones and hardest heroics with additional contidions of sucess and ends with a quest on the raid boss in the raid dungeon
So, we can assume that just a wotlk kid who only heard about vanilla and bc from memes

>Quests are poorly designed, in vanilla theres design to every quest in TBC the quests were just that collect/kill/gather, in vanilla you would need to seek lore relevant NPCs do minidungeons kill zone bosses etc
It's not like Vanilla quests were particularly complex, but in retrospect, it really does feel like they put a lot more thought into the zones and the world in general. Zones like Duskwood had a very coherent ministory of their own going on and it really did get immersed into them. At first you came there to help with whatever small troubles the secluded town might have but soon discovered that there was something much larger amiss, and the long questlines like finding out who the murderer was were something that we never saw again.

The zones in modern WoW also aim to have these kinds of stories for each zone but the way you're now a legendary hero saving the world watered the whole thing down. When I finished Duskwood for the first time I really felt like I had concluded a story, but these days it's hard to give a single fuck about the OC Donut Steel race and whatever retarded problems their Space Mushroom Forest may have. The current WoW player just goes on from saving one race from genocide to saving the planet yet again.

>I really felt like I had concluded a story
>Help is nowhere
>Scythe quest ended with nothing
>Horsemen are somewhere in kara and never heard about again until fucking legion
In what sense it was "concluded"?

no because you needed to prepare for the raids by going to old zones and go to the raids which were spread across the world

And killed everyting because there was no more GAME, everything was for one or the other there was no game to be made in the open world. In Vanilla the whle wolrd aws a big battleground not such a thing in TBC

in vanilla a shiton of zones were important in TBC none really

No its not teh same. In Vanilla there was design and zone design in TBC literally everything is next to each other and theres no build up of any kind. its literally talk to the npc move 10 feet and start grinding

>Pretty sure vanilla did it first with 20 ppl
What? ZG was just a stepping stone to get people started on MC easier. AQ20 had some good pieces but you'd never replace anything from BWL with it. I was obliterating people in ZG and MC shit with my BWL/AQ40/Naxx gear all throughout Vanilla. Maybe I was just lucky to be on a backwater server but god damn the gear gaps were enormous between me and 90% of the people I ganked.

Unless you meant invalidating 5mans, which, yes, the 20mans did to an extent as most guilds were later on quite willing to carry alts through ZG to gear them up.

>pvp gave buff against one of the hardest boss in the game until t6
What? I took a small break from raiding during SSC and TK and only came back to help our guild with their first Kael'Thas kill and then kept raiding until the end of the expansion. I don't remember PvP ever helping with anything. Resilience made all the PvP gear garbage in PvE, but PvE gear was quite usable in PvP (see: glaives in the arena, Torch of the Damned early in season 2 etc.)

>Pretty sure 5ppl back then was a legit endgame content
Only until raiding and honor gear became a thing after which they effectively became obsolete. You got amazing PvE starting gear just by getting rank 10 and getting a weapon like TUF.

You killed Morbent Fel, halted the Stitches plan, and so on. You closed up many loose threads, but some remained open.

They didn't use instanced open world zones back then so you had to have a bit of an imagination at times.

>you'd never replace anything from bwl with it
Some of ZG/AQ gear lasted until Naxx.

Not wotlk itself, but the patch which added the automatic LFG mechanic killed the game. Everything after that just made it worse.

Wotlk, especially Ulduar was fantastic.

What started the games demise is the fact that finding groups and with it the social aspect became absolutely optional, which killed the entire behavior of the people. It just got worse and worse.

Yes, but we're talking like one item per class/build. I can't remember wanting anything much from either 20man after BWL.

Much of drops in BWL were so bad that it was almost insulting.

The begining of cata was the best. All those geared as hell wotlkbabies just raging non-stop and blaming each other for wiping in 5 mans and being forced to actually communicate/marking the which trash mob to CC etc.

Too bad the autism still won at the end and forced Blizzard to nerf them to shit.

The plate ones were largely alright.

I had a really bad feeling when the badge system was introduced late TBC, but yes WOTLK was rushed out and usually considered the final nail in the coffin. It was a good finish though to kill Arthas and be done with it.

>Can we all agree

kill yourself insecure little redditor boy

>Also, WoW is the reason EVERYTHING is so casualized nowadays.

Technically you can kinda blame WC3, since it spawned Dota, which was played en mass because people sucked at WC3.

then that managed to Spawn League, which fucked EVERYTHING.

It's tempting but one shouldn't blame a successful game for other companies being lazy and just copying the design. Like blaming Halo for the decline of FPS or wow for the decline of MMO genre.