Party member seemingly dies

>Party member seemingly dies
>Comes back perfectly fine later

Does this piss anyone else off?

Other urls found in this thread:

westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Month/2008/04
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

inb4 "you just think you know what happened"

G.R.R. Martin made the wrong choice when he brought Jon Snow back. Screw Snow. He had a great death and the characters should have had to go on without him.

>writer defined by flippantly killing off characters in his uninteresting novel that he can't finish because he's a sentient piece of lard
>"tolkien is dumb"

At least Tolkien finished his books before he died.

TAX POLICY

>party member betrays you

It could have worked, but gandalf would have needed to have been around a little bit longer and showed off more of his power before dying for the death to be more meaningful

I think that was the point though. Everything leading up to Jon Snow's death was pointing directly to it. There couldn't have been any other outcome than everybody but a few of his friends wanting him dead. And now he's back alive and gets to face all of his killers every single day, and he knows the only reason they haven't killed him again is because he'll just come back.

What do you mean?
He's surrounded by all the other northern lords as the KING IN DA NORF :^)

stop user, I don't need this again. I'm trying to forget..

OH EM GEE

It's like the guy who made this quote assumed that Martin never read the Lotr books.

i find it funny that killing characters is this guy's whole gimmick

he actually said that though

>Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?

>The war that Tolkien wrote about was a war for the fate of civilization and the future of humanity, and that’s become the template. I’m not sure that it’s a good template, though. The Tolkien model led generations of fantasy writers to produce these endless series of dark lords and their evil minions who are all very ugly and wear black clothes. But the vast majority of wars throughout history are not like that.

Is he LITERALLY /ourguy/??

wow how can one man be so based

i think they're both valid approaches
sometimes the abstract ideas of good and evil are more cathartic, sometimes they're just cheap
same can go for martin's... realism, would you call it?

>>The war that Tolkien wrote about was a war for the fate of civilization and the future of humanity, and that’s become the template. I’m not sure that it’s a good template, though. The Tolkien model led generations of fantasy writers to produce these endless series of dark lords and their evil minions who are all very ugly and wear black clothes. But the vast majority of wars throughout history are not like that.
>proceeds to write about an undead horde bent on destroying civilization that can only be stopped by the chosen one

really got the brain running

>Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?
That's not where orcs come from in LOTR

Aragorn and Eomer hunted the orcs.

is this a jojo reference

>Is he LITERALLY /ourguy/??
Yeah, sure, the guy who thinks genocide against the swarthy hordes ISN'T a good idea is "our guy"

I think that's exactly where little orcs come from.

LOOOOGGGAAAANNNN!!!!!!!

>The Tolkien model led generations of fantasy writers to produce these endless series of dark lords and their evil minions who are all very ugly and wear black clothes.

meanwhile in his books
>evil horde of undeads lead by the Night King (tm) comes to murder all the humans

How can one man be so wrong? Then again this is coming from the guy who can only write characters with a good death scene. The moment they are needed to be alive for any significant amount of time their shallowness becomes apparent.

Gandalf dying in the Lotr was to let the party be truly on their own. Just as with the hobbit Gandalf being in the party would have ensured everything to go as planned which would have made for a boring story so they needed him to go away temporarily.

>what about the Orc babies?

It's like he's never even read any of the books but just watched the movies.

Are you saying he's wrong about the thousands of cheap LOTR clones recycling the same plot for decades?
His books do have some of the tropes, but they have a very different focus most of the time (also, the undead will probably turn out to be dindus).

They are very pretty though

I wouldn't say it pisses me off, but I don't like it all that much. I generally find that trick to be superfluous and a waste of time. It mitigates the presence of death and indirectly creates an odd feeling of "safety" and "fear" meaning that it's hard to expect anything interesting when the creators of the work are too afraid to make a hard decision. It's better to leave the character alive the whole time than to perform that kind of bait and switch if the character is just going to live either way.

Of course, this isn't a rule since I understand certain applications of life and death in a work can be interesting. I just find the simple "character was fine all along because of deception or resurrection" to be uninteresting and generally poor structure.

>DUDE MAIN CHARACTERS DIE AND TGEY SAY FUCK A LOT THIS IS SO EDGY AND GREAT LMAO

I remember when I thought I was cultured for reading ASOIAF in highschool. Wew lad.

RAPE FUCK COCK DIARRHEA LOL

>writer creates novel to be a metaphor for Catholicism, gets everyone to sympathize with what is essentially the Crusades because he actually knows how to make metaphors not insanely ham-fisted unlike C.S. Lewis

He's a big guy.

Is GRRM really that stupid or is this a made up quote? Gandalf is a Maia and is immortal so of course he comes back.

And the fellowship essentially did have to go on without Gandalf.

>writer creates novel to be a metaphor for Catholicism
No

when it turns out well, it works, don't have any example but I think it can work

but gandalf it's bullshit, there's this huge ass giant monster threatening everyone, the "sacrifice" is a logical thing to do, let the young traveler advance, feel the pain of loosing the mentor and all of this

>"no, I'm more powerful than ever and I managed to raise the second biggest army in the world in a few days"

He really said it back in 2008

westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Month/2008/04

>Gandalf is a Maia and is immortal so of course he comes back.
Gurm is speaking from an extradiegetic point of view.

I AM THE TAXMAN THAT'S WHAT I AM
I AM THE TAXMAN I GOT THE MASTER PLAN

Tolken>Martin

Are you really that stupid or is this post made up? Gandalf is an Ishtar, as he gave up his semi god powers to be allowed to help the people of middle earth.
Their mortal shells can indeed die, but whether they completely die or get sent back to Valinor as Maiar isn't really known. For example, it's never specified what exactly happened to the defeated Balrogs.

Also, JK Rowling made an even more retarded statement. When asked (for the 7th book) whether Dumbledore would make a return she saud something along the lines "loo no, he won't pull a Gandalf". Yet the whole horcrux thing is basically a rip off of the one ring.

I thought they captured people and turned them into orcs

He's still dead though. The last page of the last book is his death. And George will most likely overdose on McDonald's before there's another book.

He's right.

LOTR orcs don't have a defined origin. The movie made it easy and just said all minions of Sorryman appeared from the shitting pits

He's still dead in the book, though.

>But the vast majority of wars throughout history are not like that.
So some wars were like that? What wars he means i wonder.

the resistance war against Drumpf of course since that's all he talks about these days

>Yet the whole horcrux thing is basically a rip off of the one ring.
Not really

This is v not pol, pal.

WWII

clearly he means gamergate, the ultimate battle of good vs evil

Maybe if Morgoth wanted to be able to resurrect Maiar he shouldn't have been evil? Plus its hard to do on the other side of the Doors of Night lmao
>manwe_laughing.jpg

Tolkien defined the entire high fantasy genre for all time and Martin wrote about 13 year old girls getting fucked

>the entire last act of ff4

>as long as the one ring isn't destroyed Sauron's "soul" will be held on Arda so he can eventually reincarnate
>as long as at least one horcrux exists Voldemorts soul will be held on Earth so he can eventually reincarnate

>the one ring influences the bearer to basically bring the ring ever closer to Sauron so he can more easily reincarnate
>horcruxes are shown to be able to influence the people who posses them, while not necessarily shown to work towards ressurecting Vo,demort, they at least try to keep fucking shit up
Yeah, totally not.

The only reason people think Tolkein is a hack is because they're so inundated in the culture that he spawned that they don't realize that pretty much all high fantasy originated from him.

What Tolkein did is the modern equivalent of Petrarch rediscovering Cicero. Suddenly everyone is all over that shit and are copying it to try and put their own spin on it. If it weren't for Tolkein, we wouldn't have orcs, elves, or dwarves in fantasy.

in the original version, the dead members stay dead.

true dat

GRRM is just explaining the difference in his style compared to Tolkien. If you ever watch any interviews where he actually talks about Tolkien, its clear he has an immense amount of respect for him. GRRM is more critical of derivative fantasy stories that have resulted from Tolkien rather than Tolkien himself.

>an immense amount of respect for him.

it's all lip service to avoid drawing controversy. He takes pot shots at him when he thinks he can get away with it.

Therein lies the problem with Martin. I try to read the books but i just wind up not caring about the characters that die. It's like the man does it just to edgy rather than to evoke a sense of meaningful loss.

Why would anyone want to read about economic and social policies of a fictional realm, when history already provides these stories, which are sometimes stranger than fiction.

They're similar but the more you think about it the more different they are

Sauron made 16 magic rings with the elves and then he secretly made another ring to control them with (along with the three entirely elf-made rings) by infusing it with part of his essence

Voldemort killed people to split his soul and hid the fragments in six thing that held special meaning to him, and accidentally made a seventh

Sauron's goal was the domination of the free peoples of Middle-Earth and he desired the ring not because he needed it to reincarnate but because of the power it bestows

Voldemort's goal was immortality and hid his horcruxes away because that's the only purpose they have

They don't, but they can't rejoin your party.

/thread

Let it be that, GoT tards. It is an amazing series, maybe even exceptional, but 50 years down the road the LoTR will be remembered more,

hes not actually talking about orc babies hes trying to talk about moral ambiguities

Comparisons are not potshots. Please feel free to link me to a quote where he genuinely insults Tolkien and his work.

USSR were on allies side so no.

>Tolkien defined the entire high fantasy genre for all time and Martin wrote about 13 year old girls getting fucked
Thanks for reminding me why i like Martin more.

...

Read up on Genghis Khan and Atilla the Hun. They were final boss tier human beings.

>When you start loading your catapults up with the dead bodies of enemy soldiers then lob them over castle walls to spread disease and inspire fear

Though the books do call Bolg the son of Azog, suggesting some kind of reproduction.

Which book does he die in?

Sauron rings get destroyed and he suffer a fate worse then death losing all his power and forever living as a wraith with no power to do anything.

Voldemort losses all his horcruxes and suffers a fate worse then death never able to do anything as he is stuck in limbo unable to even walk