Steam quality control discussion

Mods deleted the last thread. But it actually had interesting discussion.
Should steam continue to open the floodgates to everything? Is stricter QC needed? Is the new program better or worse?

I'll only buy the games I want to play. I don't care either way.

The new system just means that steam gets even more money for doing nothing.
Steam is a fucking massive company, and they do nothing other than maintain the steam client and the occasional patch. They need to assign a small team of people to do some basic QA on titles released on steam. If it doesn't work, or it's clearly an asset flip then it gets trashed.

With steam rating it doesnt matter. Just dont buy shit.
But if you happen to like shit, feel free to buy it or return or whatever.

More choice is always better.

I'm opposed to having people deciding what comes or not to Steam because that's censorship.

Valve asking for a fee is a step in the right direction; that way only the people willing to release a commercially competent game will take the risk instead of John Smith releasing some RPG Maker trash with the hope of earning fast money.

>Mods deleted the last thread. But it actually had interesting discussion.
Link to archive?

I think you forgotten the company who owns Steam

It's not like it's taking shelf space that could be used on other games or something.

I see no reason they shouldn't just allow any garbage to be sold. What would be the point of limiting it? To stop people from buying those games? I don't understand.

Steam should have never been treated like another iTunes or Google play

PC is not a mobile platform

Anything and I mean ANYTHING that moves Steam away from that platform is better

Their is a clear difference between a unity asset flip garbage and just a bad game. steam could should filter easily like
Says. I don't mind those games existing but upload it somewhere else. And people complaining about muhh indies, don't realize it hurts good indies when they are buried in a pile of asset flips.

I personally think since they don't want to give up on the free money they should do two stores. One shitty store. And one AAA,AA/proper indie games. Basically one is Playstation level of qc the other is games that were greenlit.
It's more the browsing experience is ruined. I don't think manh people are actually tricked into buying this shite.
I check sale threads on Sup Forums to see what is on sale cause rhe actual store is too awful past the initial store page.

Yes, allow everything in, let the market sort itself out. If people want to buy and play shitty meme games - let them. The presence of shitty games on Steam does detract anyone from enjoying the good ones, except for some autistic fucks, but they will always find a reason to complain, so fuck them.

To make it easier to browse. And to make it so actual good games aren't buried by this shit. Actual goodnindie devs are essentially placing a needle in a haystack.
Might be hard to find since the OP was literally just "was he right?" and it 404ed so no internal archive.

It's too early to tell right now.

And what makes something a "good game"?

Any game you like. The presence of games you don't like on Steam should not detract you from enjoying the games you like and if it does, you need to start taking those autism pills.

Yes, I say open the floodgates. The good games will rise and be talked about - you'll know when people like a game or not. It's why capitalism works. I could go sell my literal shit on a street corner, but nobody would buy it because it's shit.

Besides, you could go to to "new" for a good gamble.

Imagine you wanted to watch a movie
You didn't decide which one. So you are browsing netflix or your movie tracker or itunes or whatever the fuck.
But not just the movie selection was there but literally every video uploaded to youtube ever, horror tag had every single let's player screaming ar amnsesia and then maybe actual movies sprinkles inbetween. Half the yt videos are even corrupt.
Pretty hard to find a movie huh? That's the state of the steam store.
Then people cry out the youtube videos are movies to and i should just ignore them and that how can i tell a good movie from a bad movie?

I have nothing against youtube but they are different services for different products.
Addicting games is cool or whatever but it's not the same thing as the steam store front that carries serious indies and AAA. People can still make asset flips just upload them elsewhere.
But i think you would find most of these """"works of art"""" would seize to exist without the ability to scam kids on steam.
Bestbuy practices quality control and won't sell your shit. It's not a working product.
Selling something on the corner and selling it on steam are not the same.

The problem is that you can't just decide what's a good game and what isn't. Alot of the cringeworthy meme games often get accolades and praise, so you can't say they're not allowed to exist. It'd be alot easier to have an organizing system that better keeps the games in a neat compilation.

this is actually a pretty good analogy because its the reason i never watch anything new on netflix or any other streaming service unless i get a recommendation

lemme condense that down for you a bit
>imagine you were browsing youtube

annnnd....done. and guess what, youtube has a search function and tracks what you like and displays what it thinks you want. now replace...youtube with steam and the difference is

Nobody is talking about "meme games" we are talking literal asset flips, unplayable or hell unlaunchable shit.
It's basically a bunch of stuff that exists just to scam literal children.
Look up some asset flips on YouTube.

But i stated i didn't want to watch youtube. Learn to fucking read. And i didn't know what i wanted to watch.
Sometimes i go to the games store to browse and then maybe buy something. Sue me.
Shit like slaughtering grounds popping up everywhere is annoying if you wamt some fun survival game or something.

>>imagine you were browsing youtube
mother fucker did you just make up a sequence of words and attribute them to a post which doesn't contain them?

There is literally zero logical explanation for anyone wanting MORE garbage on Steam. As the chart very clearly shows, the lax as fuck standards we have now already has made Steam a complete shithole compared to pre-Early Access and Greenlight. Greenlight isn't inherently bad and there have been some good games to come from it, but it's easy to get your game Greenlit. I can't remember if they removed the fee altogether or not, but if there is a fee, it's very cheap. Then all you need to do is have some friends click the "I'd buy this" button (which takes no effort) and the game will eventually be allowed. Early Access is even worse cancer because it incentivizes lazy fuck devs to never finish their games because they are already getting paid.

I hope they have some kind of tiered pricing and review process. Possibly offer devs some ways to lower the fees more.

So for example:
First time dev, game available for all supported Steam platforms (Windows 7+, GNU/Linux) = $100
Big AAA developer, game only available for Windows 10 = $1000
Shit Dev, terrible reviews of previous games = $5000

I mean i like this in theory cause it incentivizes Linux development for small guys. But there is no reason to charge AAA for qc. They are gonna pay and they are going to get on the store. You are jewing them for no reason. Better off just putting a launch day discount and using the resources for indies instead. The guys who can't pay are the ones who need qc.
But I'm cool with a discount for Linux ports.

did you miss the point? if you didnt want to watch youtube, then you dont want to watch steam because its the same shit. you WANT to have no way to sort your viewing choices? go back to a tv, or buy a gaming magazine

What? Put steam on steam put asset flips on the asset flip db ir someshit. What are you on about?

>we should fill steam with literal shit so you can't browse it
>netflix and youtube should merge and not sort content.

Banner Saga 2 failed miserably cause nobody knew it existed. It was a self funded indie that couldn't afford marketing and it just showed up on the store one day with 300 other games, probably only 20 of which even worked. And 2 of which weren't asset flips.
They had to kickstart the third just for the publicity.

Back in the day getting on steam actually meant something. It would have been on the store frontpage everyone would see it. Nobody would think it's some asset flip or whatnot.

If the AAA devs would support multiple platforms simultaneously at launch I'd be all for them getting a similar discount.
Windows 10 only development needs to be severely punished.

Perhaps it could be a formulaic:
$2000 base price to list on Steam

APIs
Game uses DirectX 12 + $2000
Game uses DirectX 11 + $1000
Game uses DirectX 9 + $500
Game uses OpenGL 4.5 - $500
Game uses Vulkan - $1000

Platforms
Game only supports Windows 10 + $1000
Game only supports Windows 7 or above + $500
Game supports GNU/Linux - $500

With some extra additional bonuses that would let a first time dev get a game listed very cheaply, or allow devs of an open source game project to get onto Steam for free.

Just add a filter on the Steam store for indie games, AAA games. Early access. etc. Probably a filter for publishers/devs, too, so I don't have to see another Sakura X game.

That's dumb as bricks jesus christ.
First of all paying is 100 times cheaper than porting.
Second of all don't incentivize dx 9 or 11 over 12. It's the much better API.
This post just seems like some whiny tangent about w10.
And again it wouldn't persuade shit. You are making aaa pay some arbitrary price for no reason.
As for windows 10. Sorry, i support vulkan but also live in reality. And devs shouldn't use shittier apis like 9 or 11 cause some retard on Sup Forums fed you some bullshit about w10 and now you refuse to upgrade.

>First of all paying is 100 times cheaper than porting.

The porting companies usually actually don't charge very much up front, they generally have a deal that gives them a substantial cut of the revenue from their ported version. Valve has a close enough relationship with them that they could cut a dev some slack if they have a contract to port the game.
I've heard before that Feral Interactive ports generally cost the original publisher about $10k, and that the automated ports from companies like Virtual Programming can be even cheaper.

>Second of all don't incentivize dx 9 or 11 over 12. It's the much better API.

That may be, but it supports only a single version of a single OS where older versions are better supported. Plus the porting technology to switch older versions of DX to standard APIs is more mature.

>The porting companies usually actually don't charge very much up front, they generally have a deal that gives them a substantial cut of the revenue from their ported version.
Even if that's the case then publishers still have to factor in lost revenue. Maybe i was gonna buy it on windows but now i got it on linux, maybe i bought it on steam as both how does that even work?

>I've heard before that Feral Interactive ports generally cost the original publisher about $10k,
That's 5 times the cost of just paying your fee. And i doubt it's a flat rate for the most hardcore aaa tittle.
>and that the automated ports from companies like Virtual Programming can be even cheaper.
Definitely not a valid option in the AAA space.

Realistically publishers would just share the cost maybe charge fifty cents to a dollar more for the game at launch. If you jack it up enough, hello origin and uplay! AAAs can take it.

>That may be, but it supports only a single version of a single OS where older versions are better supported.
Sure, but why would windows give support to old oses anyways? It's better than 7 or 8 and was a free update anyway. Obviously there is a reason devs voluntarily stick to old apis but we would be better off if we got them moving onto dx12 and vulkan not the other way around
>Plus the porting technology to switch older versions of DX to standard APIs is more mature.
Ditto it's new and needs more adoption. Also not the case porting from xbone which is technically dx12 (but different) anyway. Though those straight ports don't hit steam anyway.
You are giving a reason to incentivize dx12 adoption not the other way around.

>Even if that's the case then publishers still have to factor in lost revenue. Maybe i was gonna buy it on windows but now i got it on linux, maybe i bought it on steam as both how does that even work?

Its complicated. Its whatever platform you play the game on the most during the first two weeks, or if you don't play it at all then whatever platform you bought it on, if you bought it on mobile or through a third party key then its counted as Windows.

>Definitely not a valid option in the AAA space.

AAA developers should be using Vulkan, that's the best option for console ports especially since some of the consoles now are literally just using lightly customized versions of it. If the graphics API is ported then getting the game to run even with automated tools or wine bottles are really stupidly simple.

>You are giving a reason to incentivize dx12 adoption not the other way around.

Nobody on PC should use DX12. Vulkan is the exact same thing with none of the stupid tacked on limitations.

Ultimately Valve should probably just disallow new games using DirectX and Windows-exclusive entirely. Make devs target a platform neutral runtime to be on Steam the same way that Microsoft is now basically forcing developers on 10 to make Xbox games with their UWP virtual console.

>Developers should be using not dx.
Been hearing this for decades. I agree but we gotta operate in the cibfise of reality. I have no qualm in some realistic manner of encouraging linux as nd vulkan but bit dx9 or 11 and this isn't it
>valve should go out of business
This is why stallman isn't their CEO

>valve should go out of business

Why would that drive them out of business?

If you want to be on the Xbox, you have to use DirectX 12.
If you want to be on the PS4 you have to use their modified Mantle or GL ES 3.
If you want to be on the Switch you have to use their modified Vulkan.
Why would it kill Valve to require that games on it adhere to Standards?

Not saying for devs to break their Windows addiction cold turkey, that's why you incentivize them to do the right thing, and then step up those incentives while making Windows-only shitware less attractive for them to crap out.

Because valve isn't an operating system. If you have to use vulkan to be on steam. Does not mean you have to use vulkan to be in windows, the only os companies seriously care about.
A paywall will never work. Because by the time it's actually more profitable to port they willl leave steam. Hell I wouldn't be surprised Microsoft started paying the fees on dx12 games.
Realistically there is a place for both and I'm okay with that. Fh3 is never gonna get vulkan support even if you outlaw DirectX and kidnap developer families. It's just not woth the headache in something like that. Meanwhile a third party pc exclusive like ashes of singularity who, benefits because of the indane amount of draw calls. Might as well go vulkan.

I mean to add to this.
Does Denuvo even work on linux? I imagine it can play nice with vulkan games cause doom and i don't see why not. But there's a bunch of shit like that. And would you rather be friends with Microsoft or valve as a multiplatform publisher?

>Because valve isn't an operating system
You might tell that to Valve who keep spending quite a bit of money on their operating system.
Another big name developer was hired on by Valve recently to work on a Vulkan driver that only works on Linux.

Ultimately the developers of games may not have to do much, there's already a DirectX 9 compatibility layer built on top of the open source drivers for Linux which would in theory allow those games to just work if the win32 part was handled. There's a patched version of Wine that already works with it, but that code is too platform specific to be widely adopted. The next-generation version however will be native implementations of D3D9 and D3D11 on top of Vulkan which should allow for native performance on any platform where Vulkan is available.
It would be like DOSbox for Windows programs.

>valve spent a lot of money on their operating system
That literally no one uses.
Also isn't it just a basic debian fork?
>WiNE
Is not the same thing it's emulating a windows environment more or less, not changing the api or porting software to Linux.

Games that include the Denuvo malware on Windows have never included it for the Linux release.
It plugs into deep parts of Windows that often aren't exposed as official APIs and so it wouldn't easily translate to another platform, and even if it could with a well documented open source kernel it probably wouldn't work for very long.

Denuvo definitely doesn't work on Linux, Doom for instance worked perfectly with Wine+Vulkan during the alpha phase, was broken on the initial release due to it being infected with the malware, and when it was removed the game worked perfectly again.

There you go. You just found a great reason not to do linux releases.
You have to see these things from everyone's perspective not just the tinted shades of what you want.

>That literally no one uses.
That works feeds back into every GNU/Linux based operating system.
Even if it never sees adoption on Steam beyond the .8% / 1.5 million users it has now having a standards compliant open source operating system will be a huge benefit to game developers for whom in the past the OS and the graphics drivers were black boxes.

>Also isn't it just a basic debian fork?
Yes, part of the beauty of Linux. Valve can make their own distro focusing on just the things they care about without breaking standards to ensure compatibility.

>Is not the same thing it's emulating a windows environment more or less,
Wine Is Not an Emulator, its simply an implementation of the win32 API natively on top of Linux that when combined with a way to handle Direct3D calls either via a D3D->OpenGL wrapper (slow) or direct D3D support via the drivers (fast) is capable of running games.

Nobody cares that DOSbox games aren't native and are just using a compatibility layer, regardless of what OS you're running, its just become the standard way to run those games.
Right now nobody on Windows 10 cares that all their legacy Windows games are running through a Microsoft provided compatibility layer.
In the future nobody is going to care that their legacy Windows games are running using Wine.

Windows
need to pay a malware vendor to attempt to force users to buy games

Linux
no purchase of malware needed to sell games

I know which one I'd rather develop games for, and I know which platform I'd rather purchase games on.

>1.5 mil users
I want a stat on that. I bet that's the number of installs. Not active users, not people who use it exclusively or have it on more than a steam link.
I mean developers don't care if you have a linux partion alongside a windows one. They only need to sell it to you on one. It's not like there are many people with gtx 1080s running only linux hoping a AAA game comes their way.
>yes that's the beauty of linux
No i mean like it's literally just debian stable with a new DE. How much could they have possibly have spent on that?
>compatibility layers.
Again
That is not the same thing as a straight port or native vulkan support. If anything it's a reason not to bother in some cases.
This is the point i was making about tinted glasses. No matter how you feel about Denuvo it isn't malware.
Devs, or more importantly publishers would rather the platform where they can make more sales, even, no especially by using DRM to do so. And buyers overwhelmingly prefer windows.
So no people would rather dev for Windows and buy on windows.
No steam games, unless making it through their shit QC and then getting deleted immediately, contains malware. Most people really don't even care if a game has Denuvo. My own problem with it is very minuscule.

This is the end all be all answer. I don't have the time or energy to become invested in what happens in the deep sea of shit games.

Once in a while a good game rises up through that deep shit sea and we all talk about how great indie devs are and continue pointedly ignoring how 90% of the steam store is awful. I mean it's there. We don't have to look at it ever. We don't have to worry about it. It's not bothering us. It's just shit. Sometimes there's good stuff there, and its popularity pushes it out of the poop and we play it.

Whatever.

But why not have that search for the gem take place below steam so i can just open steam amd look at games.
It works on psn and xbox marketplace. Works at brick and mortor.

But that's what I do. I don't look at everything that releases on steam. I just look at whats popular or that I've heard of.

Idk. All the filters and custom shit doesn't work for me i still have a giant bin to pick through. It's like shopping at Nordstrom's rack. Id rather not. A lot of indie devs complain about getting buried in the shit pile as well.

>I want a stat on that.

Its called math. Take the numbers reported by Steam for install base and the survey .8% of 200 million. Actually it comes up as 1.6 million but I don't think its that precise so I went ballpark figure.
Even at a low estimate if you assume the survey is over counting Linux users somehow, or that Steam isn't as big as Valve's figures place it you're talking about somewhere between 800k and 1.2 million Linux users.
Despite what casual observers of the survey might think, Steam is growing constantly so what you're really seeing with the survey is relative growth on platforms.
Linux use on Steam has been increasing at about the same rate as Steam as a whole is growing and that's backed up by porting companies numbers.
In fact the Linux game market is so healthy now that its not unusual to see major AAA games ported that add Linux only with no MacOS version.

>not people who use it exclusively

Actually that is only people who use Linux exclusively. If you dual boot, use VM+Passthrough, or Wine to play games you are counted as a Windows user.

>steam link

Counts you as whatever platform the game you're streaming is running.

SteamOS is currently not included in the stats at all, so the numbers are purely desktops.

>No matter how you feel about Denuvo it isn't malware.

The internal documentation for it was written by a developer who routinely refers to it as 'the malware'. Whatever rose colored glasses you want to look at it with, it and Windows 10 are malware that not five years ago would have been viewed by the security community as wholly unacceptable.

>it's called math
It doesn't tell me how often the use it. What other os they run. How many games they buy etc i have Steam on my linux partion. Don't think ive ever used it for more than shopping.
>VM with gpu passthrough
Aka running windows.

Basically your defence is obsurd.
0.8% of customers use linux. Of them most also have a windows partition, vm or computer. And others don't have the hardware or interest for AAA. Then tou have people like me who would lie to overrepresent linux So why the fuck should a business cater to them?
Hell if 0.8% of steam users actually exclusively used linux and only bought linux games and all had high end gaming PCs and a large propensity to spend with deep pockets. You'd still probably make more, in revenue let alone profit, going windows exclusive and using Denuvo. Denuvo probably nets more sales than linux ports by a wide margin.
Most people use windows and quite frankly they should.

Steam is not the market though. It's a store. Personally I don't like shopping in stores with literal shit on the shelf, justified with ,"well someone will buy it".

Google the definition of malware friend.

Do you just play a ton of shit games and see those shit games?

Your analogy is stupid because while I should be able to see everything in existence if I wanted to, the things I'm shown without trying are relevant.

In fact, I am commonly shown games I would play from steam. This is the result of scrolling down. The top "recommended for me." is even better than this. The things like "Moirai" that look like shit, I just don't click on. That's the entire point of a store. It's showing me things it think interest me, and if I don't I don't click them, or even better I click it, then go to "not interested" and never see it again.

I don't get what is with retards and controlling the "quality" of the steam store and saying their pages are unusable.

>It doesn't tell me how often the use it.
You have to be running Steam exclusively in Linux to be counted as a Linux user.

If you run Steam on Windows, or on a Windows VM, or even run Steam in Wine you are counted by Steam as a Windows user.
Steam's numbers don't track users who use multiple OSes so by default everyone is counted as a Windows user unless they are explicitly not using it ever.
So if anything, the number of Linux users on Steam may be under reported. The Steam survey's results are very different from the 2-3% from other more reliable sources of data about desktop users.

>Denuvo probably nets more sales than linux ports by a wide margin.

Denuvo does nothing to stop piracy, in fact the only thing the malware does is discourage purchases by legitimate paying customers.

The original post literally said all of YouTube is on Netflix for some asinine reason, so yes he did essentially say that. I'm not even that guy and that's all I got from his post too. I even agree with the person you replied to, in that YouTube has a search function that actually works pretty well, and recommendations too.

YES GOY BUY GOY BUY!

Vulkan is not Linux, it's every windows systems that isn't 10 too, and there is no reason not to use it.

There is even a good shader interchange format to it if you need to also target dx9 and dx11 and your complaint with OpenGL was shaders and wanting to use HLSL. Not to mention most companies already have HLSL to GLSL compilers anyway. Nobody should use HLSL anymore though, but the compilers are right there if you need to for some reason.


There really is no reason to use DX12 over Vulkan. Before it was documentation. Now Vulkan has tons of documentation.

Because recommend for me never works on any platform in existence. Steam is probably fucked for me cause of all the bundle games. I'd like to look past the front shelf
Most stores practise QC for similar reasons stop acting like this some unique thing.
The point was you were trying to browse netflix for something to watch that night but your screen was litered with youtube videos. Not that you were on YouTube or youtube doesn't have a search function.
Why do people browse Sup Forums If they are illiterate.

Except I own 445 games, a ton of bundle games, AND LITERALLY TOOK A SCREENSHOT PAST THE FRONT SHELF.

Steam recommends you games based off playing habits, not buying habits. If you play Atelier Sophie, it's going to recommend you other weeb games because chances are you are interested in them. The same is true for any style of games you play, it's how the algorithms work.

And it works pretty well. As evidenced by my screenshot that I just took scrolling to the near end of the page just to avoid comments like yours. I am in fact the type of person to play Dang it Ron Paul, and did, except on a PSP emulator and didn't like it so never bought it. I also have considered trying The Walking Dead many times and might if it becomes cheap. I played Transformers Devestation so getting another Transformer game makes sense. I have no clue why Don't Starve and MoiRai or Rimworld are there (probably because Sophie might be considered a crafting game because tags) but even in those cases Don't Starve isn't garbage, Rimworld isn't, Moirai might be BUT I NEVER HAVE TO CLICK THEM.

>It doesn't tell me how often the use it.

To answer that particular point more directly.
The survey data is from a sample of users who are randomly selected during the month and then have to opt-in to it.
So it won't track dormant or inactive accounts, and if you never use Steam on a platform you'd never be presented with the survey on it to be counted.

>The point was you were trying to browse netflix for something to watch that night but your screen was litered with youtube videos.

Which is literally implying you are just browsing YouTube you fucking dense retard.

And when you go on YouTube, just like when you go on Netflix, just like when you go on Steam, the things you see and are recommended are not random, so if you were browsing you would see things that you have a very good probability of clicking or watching.

The only problem in fact with things that aren't YouTube is there is a very finite amount of content and you can easily get rid of all of it relevant to you.

>no reason not to use it.
Ever heard of Microsoft?
Open gl back in the day had some decent revisions that never took off.
And how many of those customers regularly buy AAA games? How many can even run them? Also i thought it was a survey?
>Denuvo does nothing to stop piracy.
Except making it hard to crack games, many Denuvo games to this day are not cracked and thus, it literally stops piracy.
I'm not going to argue every single pirate is a 1 for 1 loss of a sale or that i don't pirate. But some of people who pirate would otherwise buy the game. Denuvo doesn't dissuade sales. You are to far into your echochamber. Most people who buy games don't know about it. Of those who do, most don't care, of those that do care, most buy them anyway, of those that don't most are just ill informed and think it kills their ssd or someshit.

But Valve literally IS opening the floodgates. All they will require with Direct is a small fee to put a game on the store. Even the worst case scenario at $5000 is a tiny expense compared to the cost of developing a low budget video game. The salary of one developer alone for a few months would exceed this fee by far, and putting a game on Steam means advertising, hosting, small server-side functionality like achievement tracking and stats handled for you, and a great deal of exposure by being on a platform used by a ton of people. By getting rid of the weekend coders who submit Game Maker tutorials on Greenlight, legitimate games gain more relative exposure and have a better chance of standing out. And since no one is validating the game content, there is no fear of censorship that one might have when dealing with a publisher. Finally by setting up a small company under the name of the developer it is possible to get tax cuts and financial incentives to offset any costs associated with development, equipment and yes, distribution costs.

The people who are worried about Steam Direct are idiots who don't understand how to take advantage of it, and people who make shit games that nobody wants in the first place. Anyone half serious about it should be aware that it is good for them.

No i was insinuating netflix if netflix had no QC. Youtube should be youtube netflix should be netflix.
For example yesterday i wanted to watch a horror movie with friends so we browsed the horror tag. It would be really annoying if the number to scroll through went from like 100 to 30,000 and the thr extra 29.9k was just amnesia let's plaus. Then some retards were like. WELL ALL THE GOOD MOVIES ARE STILL THERE LEARN TO SEARCH. Like that fucking solves anything.
I dunno man. Maybe i primarily play shit? I use gog whenever possible and pirate a lot so maybe that fucks it.

Microsoft is not a reason to use DirectX, you are a fucking retard. There were legitimate reasons to use DirectX over OpenGL. Technical reasons. Not just one sentence quips that don't make any sense. The only reason to use DX12 over Vulkan was DX12 had more documentation than Vulkan did and was more easily available faster. There is no longer any reason to use DX12, and porting is easy. I will wait for you to give me all those technical reasons to use DX12 though. There were plenty for various versions of OpenGL (now not so much, but you can still name some) but there is, quite literally, not a single reason to use DX12 unless you are shilling for Microsoft.

>THE GOOD MOVIES ARE STILL THERE LEARN TO SEARCH. Like that fucking solves anything.

By your own logic though you scrolled the 100 good horror games, at that point you had no interest in anything so why even keep searching? Closing the flood gates doesn't magically make the good games go up, it just means you don't have the option of playing any of the 29.9k games.

And yes, the good games DO raise to the top and are the first shown. There are multiple ways for you to search steam that way.

And lastly, considering most of the things I watch on Netflix are actually recommended to me by Netflix, my Netflix habbits would not change at all if there were every YouTube video on it, because just like YouTube, I just don't watch the shit.

>Ever heard of Microsoft?

You mean the company directly responsible for the death of Longs Peak?
That sabotaged more advanced OpenGL by not enabling it by default?
That restricts users from accessing features of their own video cards if they haven't 'upgraded' their OS?

This is a company you want to support?

>And how many of those customers regularly buy AAA games?

About the same as any other demographic group on Steam. Linux users probably skew more towards buying strategy games, but clearly there's enough Linux sales to support companies like Feral interactive delivering new AAA ports every few weeks. Hitman just this week, Dirt Rally two weeks from now.

>How many can even run them?

Linux users tend to skew towards the PC enthusiast demographic, and the driver situation for Nvidia cards has been the best for many years (now starting to change thanks to the open source AMD driver) so Linux users likely have better hardware on average than the PC population as a while.

>Also i thought it was a survey?

It is, but it is presented to users on the platform that they have the most playtime. You'll often see reports of Linux users saying that they got it within Wine for instance instead of when they logged into Steam natively, because Steam treats Wine as a separate platform and if you play games more on it that's what it sees as your preferred OS.

>search games on sale
>select specials
>sort by lowest price
>have to skip 10 pages to notice any good games on sale (another world, zeno clash, toki tori, edge, etc.)
>everything else is shovelware crap that clutters the search and makes it impossible to find sales that aren't shoved in your face on the front page

>business and politics aren't a thing
>Microsoft has no influence or power
I forgot i am talking to stallman.
Why are you even concerned then. I'm sure vulkan will be the api used in 100% of games going forward and Microsoft will go bankrupt!
Also confused. You want me to name opengl versions or directX revisions? And why?
Using it does not mean opening it. I meant to purchase and play AAA games. I'm banking mostly indies and at lower rates than windows users.

>why keep searching i was implying they would be mixed in, actual movies would be a needle in a haystack.
I'm glad that recommended works for you. Maybe it does for people who use only one platform but it's shit for me.

>Search for things by absolute lowest price
>Surprised most of what you get is shit
>if you search specials the same way but don't sort by lowest first you see deals with the games sorted by better quality metrics, yet you don't get the absolute lowest price you can pay for something while still getting an arbitrary thing

Really makes you think.

If you don't even use it that much why are you so adamant about "fixing" it? The more data it has, the better it works. If you don't give it data, it can't work well. You also sound like you don't even want to use it that much, so why fuck it up to make it work for you when you barely care?

>You mean the company directly responsible for the death of Longs Peak?
>That sabotaged more advanced OpenGL by not enabling it by default?
Yes thank you for helping illustrate my point.
>That restricts users from accessing features of their own video cards if they haven't 'upgraded' their OS?
The features aren't on the graphics card you fucking idiot. That's not how an api works. Personally i don't have a problem with that one but it's irrelevant. Unless you are trying to make the arguement that no windows 7/8 support will kill dx12, but it seems like you are just lashing out.
>NOBODY WILL US DX12 CAUSE I DON'T LIKE MICROSOFT.

>This is a company you want to support?
No. I'm not a corporate whore nor a 15 year old comie. I just live in reality.

>About the same as any other demographic group on Steam. Linux users probably skew more towards buying strategy games, but clearly there's enough Linux sales to support companies like Feral interactive delivering new AAA ports every few weeks. Hitman just this week, Dirt Rally two weeks from now.
That's ports and i doubt it's that lucrative. You don't have stat on their purchasing habits you can link do you?

>Linux users tend to skew towards the PC enthusiast demographic, and the driver situation for Nvidia cards has been the best for many years (now starting to change thanks to the open source AMD driver) so Linux users likely have better hardware on average than the PC population as a while.
Sauce on that? lots of people running it on old thinkpads as well.

>It is, but it is presented to users on the platform that they have the most playtime. You'll often see reports of Linux users saying that they got it within Wine for instance instead of when they logged into Steam natively, because Steam treats Wine as a separate platform and if you play games more on it that's what it sees as your preferred OS.
Right but does it ask them os or just report what they use?

Well i use gog to browse games then i buy from gog. Not everything is on gog and i like to window shop. Also asset flips exist to scam children. Kinda shady imo
Besides it's a catch 22 innit? It's shit if i don't use it. I don't use it cause it's shit. Besides i never said i don't use it. I just also use gog origin and piracy. Just like i use netflix but also have a few hundred blu rays and a shit tonne of downloaded movies. So i watch too gear amd everything recommended is shitty car shows. Luckily standard netflix browsing is pretty good.

>I meant to purchase and play AAA games.
Why should only 'AAA' games count? Do you buy into the false notion that only games from a certain small subset of developers that have an advertising budget over a certain value can be good?

>at lower rates than windows users.

That's doubtful simply because Windows users represent most users on Steam, so their numbers would vary very little from the generic average user on Steam

Linux users are much more likely than the average Steam user to be a PC enthusiast.
They're much more likely than the average Steam user to own more than 100 games on Steam.
They're more likely than the average Steam user to have over 500 hours in a game.

Now if you were to just compare PC enthusiasts who use Windows vs PC enthusiasts who use Linux then you'd probably find that the Linux users are less gaming focused than those Windows users but if you were to look at what percentage of Steam users they represent you'd probably find that they're not much larger than the population of Linux users on Steam.

...

This.

>It works on psn and xbox marketplace.

You are not seriously saying that every game on them is a gem, right?

>No. I'm not a corporate whore nor a 15 year old comie. I just live in reality.
I'm not those things either, and I'd like to think I live in reality. There are billion dollar Linux companies.
There are thousands of games available for Linux.
There is no reason to support a convicted monopolist now.
Or allow yourself to be intentionally locked into an increasingly closed platform.

>The features aren't on the graphics card you fucking idiot. That's not how an api works.
Jeez, pedantic much.

The API exposes features of the graphics card.
You can only access the API that exposes the features of the card if you "upgrade" your OS.

Or the game could use OpenGL or Vulkan.

>That's ports and i doubt it's that lucrative. You don't have stat on their purchasing habits you can link do you?

Not handy, but there are now no less than 3 companies who are supporting themselves primarily off of ports of AAA software to Linux, and the rate at which ports of AAA games are coming to Linux is increasing.

>Sauce on that? lots of people running it on old thinkpads as well.
You realize that is the PC enthusiast laptop of choice right? That goes for enthusiasts across the OS divide.

>Right but does it ask them os or just report what they use?
You've never gotten the survey? It reports what you're using when its presented to you. There is no option to say "this isn't my primary system", if you don't respond Valve just presents it to another random user until they hit the threshold they need.

>why should only AAA count
I think you are confused. I like both vulkan and linux. I play tonnes of AAA as well as indie games. My point is most business will always exist on windows using dx12 and AAA especially. The start of this thread was some guy essentially saying valve should charge companies for using DX or windows. And later that they should force vulkan. Not accepting directX. I wad saying how stupid that was.
>windows users represent most steam users
Just because linux is a minority does not mean they magically game more than the mean. Besides it's a reasonable assumption because windows has more games and is the larger gaming platform.

No.
I don't mean qc as in is it good or not
>there are no reasons to support a monopolist
Tonnes if you want to make money, which most publishers do.
>locked into
>not dualbooting or handing your gpu off to a vm using vt-d
Spotted the pleb
>api
Doesn't make the api hardware does it?
Wow that DX12 chip on the new vega GPUs really speeds up draw calls and improves multithreading as well as allowing lower level optimization!
>chinkpad is enthusiast.
If a chinkpad is your main pc you may be a computer enthuist but not a hardware one or gaming enthuist. Most dem fancy games are shit in an iGPU
>survey
i opt out. But i recall years ago getting one where i shilled linux hard. Maybe it was really early and they just asked or it was specifically about linux suport idk. But I'm nit surprised they do it that way at all now obviously.

>billion dollar linux companies
Not in desktop or gaming space.
They couldn't be more irrelevant here.
Biggest players here are valve and what? Fucking canonical?

>My point is most business will always exist on windows using dx12

Android/Linux, which like Desktop GNU/Linux will now also use Vulkan is a much larger market than Windows.
PS4 has an API available for developers which is essentially Vulkan
Switch just straight up uses Vulkan, NVN is 'Nintendo Vulkan with Nvidia extensions'

Windows may never go away completely, but there's clearly business outside of Windows as well.

>Just because linux is a minority does not mean they magically game more than the mean.

Valve talked about this at Dev Days at one point, in one of their talks about Linux, but I can't be bothered to dig it up.

Actually though like I said even if its true that's pretty much guaranteed. Its like how vegetarians have longer life spans than the average person, because they tend to be adults (avoid infant mortality which is huge) who made an active choice about what they eat which automatically puts them ahead of the majority of people who don't care what they eat, but trying to draw a conclusion from that is bullshit because the same things would apply to any group of adults who have made a choice about what they eat (unless they're eating something that actually kills them).

I wonder what he's thinking now...

>Wow that DX12 chip on the new vega GPUs really speeds up draw calls and improves multithreading as well as allowing lower level optimization!

Come on now, you're just being intentionally dumb.

Lets say your GPU hardware doesn't support accessing objects stored in the buffer memory on the GPU because it lacks an instruction to do that. Then it wouldn't support the latest APIs.
However, if your card did support that feature, but the API to access it wasn't available then you would be just as unable to benefit from that feature as if your hardware didn't support it.

>i opt out. But i recall years ago getting one where i shilled linux hard. Maybe it was really early and they just asked or it was specifically about linux suport idk. But I'm nit surprised they do it that way at all now obviously.

The Steam 'survey' isn't a questionnaire, it captures the data automatically and then requires you to opt in to report that back to Valve. Its only a survey in that its a random sample.

Android gaming is a different market entirely.
Ps4 sure, but it's still easier to port from xbone using dx12 i have a feeling Microsoft is going to go all in on this with Scorpio.
Switch is ARM and is likely to have a library mostly of first party stuff that never See's pc.
It's not like consoles haven't used opengl and such in the past. It doesn't really translate to pc adoption. Though i am very interested in what vulkan, tegra and switch can do for ARM gaming.
Idk I've just lived through enough year of the linux desktops to bother. If dx12 and windows 10 makes m$ take better care of windows and bring more first party game's im happy. If vulkan pushes windows to actually be prosumer im happy. If vulkan brings more games to linux im happy. But nobody in the foreseeable future will be able to out muscle Microsoft. And honestly all things considered dx12 is a decent api. Steam should encourage linux and vulkan like they do now. But shouldn't harass or discourage windows or dx

>come on now you are being intentionally dumb.
I get what you are saying but an api is software that has to be actually programmed. You make it sound like the hardware features just magically work on windows but Microsoft actively blocked it. The truth is they decided not to bring the API to old revisions of windows.

anime titties

>relying on the front page of steam for recommendations when you spend all your free time on a video game image board

>Sup Forums
recommendations
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>Should steam continue to open the floodgates to everything?
Having a near-monopoly on the electronic market, yes they should.

>Neptunia
>Senran Kagura