Why did this game get a pass for having shitty combat, shallow RPG character progression and just being story-heavy...

Why did this game get a pass for having shitty combat, shallow RPG character progression and just being story-heavy? Where's the "game" in this so-called masterpiece if it's just an interactive novel?

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It's a roleplaying game that focuses more on out-of-combat roleplaying.

Because the kind of people that adore this kind of games wouldn't know good gameplay even if it hit them in the face. All they care about is "good" writing. What's funny is that they would be better off reading books instead of playing video games.

>Shallow RPG character progression
>In fucking D&D

If anything there's too many fucking options

Also not all games have to be CUHRAZY Japanese action games

Come on it wasn't that bad, I think you just hate it because you are used to games that came out a year ago because you are literally 15

Yeah books are usually full of interactive roleplaying and questing.

I can see the post-Halo generation of gamers is finally taken over this place enough to start shitting on classic games in large scales.

I thought the animation in combat was better than other infinity engine games, every time someone holds a game in high esteem it gets torn apart by kids literal kids that haven't played it because its hard to run on modern systems

The combat isn't shitty

Also you're gay

Deionarra best girl

>Being surprised that Sup Forums is shit at videogames

The average Sup Forums user is shit at videogames, everytime I hear some stupid shit from Sup Forums I ask for their rank and I either get silence (so shit ranking) or confirmation that they're shit ranking.

People like story heavy games precisely because they can interact with the said story and easily self-insert unlike with a book.

pff you cant fuck a ghost, tail bitch would fuck you and scratch the shit out of your back

You don't like all those interactive novels with "go to page x when y" readplay that are critically acclaimed bestsellers and nobel price winners?

>not skullfucking morte

They can be.

Do they still make choose your own adventure books?

>yes games were you read are novels "My dopamine system is fucked and I cant pay attention without adderal therefore the game is a book"

I beat this game pretty recently. The story was pretty engrossing but if this is what's called "great writing" in video games, then it's pretty laughable because the writing of Planescape feel like those pulp fantasy novels you'd find at the back end of a bookstore. I can't wrap around the idea of this game to rub elbows with classic fantasy novels if that's what the fanbase is considering.

Yes, digital ones.
Unfortunately most of them are just 'Go to page 12 to go left or page 15 to go right'.

>tfw your dopamine system actually is fucked and nothing is enjoyable and you can't pay attention to anything longer than 15 minutes without getting bored

That sucks, I actually really liked CYA books when I was a kid and they're still a pretty fun read even today

>Videogame writing is garbage compared to classical literature

no way

go camping for a few days, I swear if you sleep outside after a week you would watch I love lucy and think it was entertaining

Books don't gate the story behind rancid gameplay and filler combat. Torment is fucked by being an ugly D&D slog, much like how Thief 1 was fucked by trying to be an action game.

Because it has actual role playing it it to compensate.

Now, why do JRPG's get a pass for having shitty combat, shallow RPG character progression and just being story-heavy? Where are the "games" in this so-called game genre if it's just an interactive anime?

The game has great character progression in the sense of giving the player the opportunity to define his character's personality.

Are there CYOA books that has some simple game systems integrated to them? I remember running into a fan-made CYOA in high school but the guy implemented a simple dice mechanic to spice things up. (e.g. Pick the sword, go to page 5, page 5 depicts a combat coming up, roll dice and if it the weapon hits, go to page 12, if it misses, go to page 11, etc.)

I always wondered if there was something like that but done by professional author or something.

Why is the combat bad? stop watching lets plays you nauseating adolescent

Provide your definition of 'game'.
Then point out how this title is not compatible with your definition of game.
Else delete this thread as you are obviously just shitposting.

The Fighting Fantasy books are basically light RPGs. At least the one's I've read. They have an inventory system and combat.

You mean something like this?
Seriously, there is a fuckton of books like this.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamebook

> like those pulp fantasy novels you'd find at the back end of a bookstore
Guess what your average nerd reads.

No. Because it's a garbage invention. If you would want to really create a memorable story with that system your book would have thousands of pages.

That's why people used computers to store their interactive stories and thus the rpg genre was born. And this way it works.

Yeah I cant even read a book if it doesnt have a map in the front

It's essentially a D&D point and click adventure. In my opinion it shouldn't have had combat at all, at least not the type of combat those kinds of games did.

This
People are shitting on SoTC, Morrowind, Deus Ex, Planescape, Time splitters, fucking Stalker.
It's cancerous.

Alright: who managed to complete a full evil playthrough without resorting to going through the dialogue as fast as possible and reading the bare minimum?

Your opinion sucks and how is it that much different than badlurs gate? if you think infinity engine games are shit just say so

Not everyone lives in your respective echo chamber.

I love Deus Ex, Morrowind, Stalker but I wasn't a fan of Planescape and find it overrated as hell. It's writing is no better than run-of-the-mill fantasy books.

Whats a good fantasy book? I thought lord of the rings was dog shit, towards the end when sam started giving frodo blowjobs to stay alive

>it's writing is no better than run-of-the-mill fantasy books.

nigga do you even central theme?

I think some people just find fantasy corny in general, but so is scifi

>people are making fun of STALKER

>It's writing is no better than run-of-the-mill fantasy books.
I've read a ton of shitty fantasy books as a kid and trust me, Torment is like Dostoyevsky compared to all that pseudomedieval crap with dragons, elves and dwarves (I'm not talking about Tolkien of course).

>sci-fi is STILL in a fucking storytelling ghetto
>cyberpunk is in even deeper

fuck fantasy and dragons and shit, i want my rainy shitholes filled with cyborgs

It's not on the PS4 so it's bound to happen.

>I can't wrap around the idea of this game to rub elbows with classic fantasy novels if that's what the fanbase is considering.
This is not entirely fair.
Planescape is indeed genre fiction, there is no doubt about that. It does not really present deep or meaningful and relevant subjects or observations beyond few fairly common ones. It can't really be compared to works of authors such as Borges or Pavić or whatever.
That said, as a piece of genre fiction is well above the average quality of the particular genre. It does not rely on meaningless established clichés, the way it utilizes philosophical theories as grounds for interesting speculations is fairly amusing: what it lacks in relevance of it's themes, it makes up for in creativity, imagination and just pain good craft in terms of dialogues, characterization etc...

I think you just haven't really read much average fantasy. Of course, you'll find it disappointing if you want to compare it to classical fiction, but in that case, you are just comparing apples and oranges.

Sarcasm aside, once you start reading more serious literature and talking to people you begin to understand why genre fiction ghetto had managed to last for almost a century. Your enthusiastic reader of Grok the Conqueror and Drow Diaries only ever knows about writing that is on par with Grok the Conqueror and Drow Diaries, and so when something with even a modicum of quality shows up in his swamp he gets blown away, proclaims himself a fan in order to inflate his feeling of self-worth, then goes on to read more Grok the Conqueror and Drow Diaries.

I just listened to the original audio book for necromancer after reading it years ago
the shit is genius
it didnt even seem dated at all

>all these talk of low-quality fantasy books

What is kino-tier fantasy novels that's not Tolkien-shit, lads?

Fuck you thanks for assuming I read shit like the drizzit series. God that shit is awful

I think anything by R. A. Salvatore will be right up your alley. Especially his early, non-D&D work.

people have different opinions, not everybody likes all the same stuff as you do

unmodded stalker is a fps with absolutely horrible shooting mechanics (on every difficulty setting)
SoTC is just not enjoyable to play, even though everything about the game looks great
Planescape has a lot of mechanics and systems that are just shit and get in the way of the characters and story, it's a pain to play, especially if don't know much about D&D
Morrowind, Deus Ex and Timesplitters (2+3) are masterpieces though

...

Just be glad we haven't seen some significant release of Young Adult-shit that touches cyberpunk/hard sci-fi like how it tainted supernatural fantasy thus ruining images of vampires, werewolves, etc.

Genre fiction is genre fiction. The division exists for a reason. Genre fiction is functional, there is nothing wrong with its existence and there is no point in shaming people who read it.

The only problem is when people start to deny relevance of the division. People who read and enjoy genre fiction (which is majority of all people, even those who don't like to admit it), and that is perfectly fine as long as they don't delude themselves into thinking its not just genre.

>R. A. Salvatore
go to hell that shit is straight up garbage

...

the reason i liked story heavy rpgs is because i also like books. and they don't have to be mutually exclusive unless you're some kind of autist who hates having music in his films or hates having pictures in his books. kill yourself

Question about planescape: I've heard people saying it's good and so I was thinking about picking it up. Does it let me use improvised weapons like in D&D? Like using shoes and bricks as weapons

>pictures in books
Umberto Eco had some great illustrations in Prague Cemetary. Fear and Loathing had some interesting ones too

The Secrets of Nicholas Flamel are alright, despite one of the characters being a jealous angsty teen. It's pretty schlocky but I have a soft spot for mythology and historical fiction.

...

...

It's possible to write serious literature within a genre though. Cormac McCarthy does just that and he is highly regarded.

I wasn't implying implications, I was explaining why genre fiction ghetto is self-reinforcing.

It doesn't, unless you already have it as an item.

There are some weird weapons in a "non-straightup-weapon" sense, but not too many.

Also consider the alternative: 8000hours of voice actor dialog that costs a fortune

>What is kino-tier fantasy novels that's not Tolkien-shit, lads?
If you want to read really great fantastic fiction, you have to leave the fantasy genre. Look into authors like Borges, Pavić, Calvino, Cortázar (I recommend the short stories rather than really long shit like Rayuela), Bulghakov, Schulz, Kafka.

Alternatively look further into history and open Thousand and One Night, Gargantua and Pantagruel, or just flat out open a book of some classic folklore and mythology. I like Icelanding fairytales and myths in particular.

Read this. If you like it, you'll probably like the other couple dozen novels he wrote.

interesting that you should mention borges. his work always struck me as very relevant to video game narratives, more precisely those in rpgs. stuff like morrowind where the devs have created an entire world with it's own literature and religion and seeing how the 'player' inhabits that world just seems very borgesian to me. helps that i'm currently rereading labyrinths.

>google the author
>he's a fucking SJW

pass

I wonder if Avellone regrets being a video game writer, it must be hard being so passionate about a medium that doesn't even want you.

is he though?

Avellone is one of the few well respected video game writers though.

Has he written novels? I'd be interested on the testament of his writing skill if he made a straight up novel.

is he though?

Do you reckon he is bald so he doesn't need to wash cum out of his hair?

>It's possible to write serious literature within a genre though.
Genre fiction is often a misleading term, because it does not actually mean "a work within a genre".
It really means "a book written exclusively to fit expectations of it's genre, with no further qualities or ambitions to transcend it". Most classical fiction can be associated with certain genres as well, but what is important is that it offers something that is not inherent or typical for the genre as well. Usually, classical fiction addresses or reflects real-life issues and subjects, even if it does through metaphorical language or typical formal quirks of a particular genre.

McCarthy is not usually considered a genre fiction author. The Road may be labeled to be part of Postapocalyptic literature, but it's really "just" a profound study of human character, the whole post-apo settings are just accidental. It could have taken place in revolutionary-times Russia and the story would still be equally as strong and evocative, because the core themes transcend post-apocalyptic aesthetics and speak about universal aspects of human nature and life.

Sorry for the pretentiousness, I'm a lit teacher. I can't help it.

It's not like I had a hard time with the combat, it's just that it felt tacked on. In baldurs gate and Icewind dale the combat is a big part of the games, but in torment you can go hours without anything trying to kill you.

well he looks like one and his Wikipedia page says so

Where did you get I was talking about there being something wrong with genre fiction? I'd take Lem over Hemingway any day of the week. But much like how in high literature you have a culture of writing books no one will ever read or buy but the critics will love and give you many awards, in genre fiction you have this pit where pigs are fed slop, and they are so happy with the slop and comfortable in their pit they've never even looked up and realized there is a sky. That's the problem; the garden variety nerd can't tell what good literature is because he gets all his reading from McDonalds.

Morrowind is a very post modern game in it's approach to prophecy in the main quest. The most likely thing is that all of the prophecy is a popycock, you are a political pawn in the hands of The Empire and Azura, plus those who know lore knwo that Azura doesn't really have any way to incarnate someone. Nerevar wasn't an Ada like Umaril nor was Nerevarine born of any special circumstances, as far as we can tell he is just a usual guy born from a soul in dreamsleeve...but technically you do fulfill all of the criteria of the prophecy, everyone calls you the nerevarine and you identify as one.
It's very basic ideas of self fulfilling prophecy and whatnot, but it's very relevant to how videogames usually treat the chosen ones.

He's a Trotskyite.

Perdido Street Station was still a good book, though.

Damn. I've been wanting to play a D&D like game with improvised weapons. I want to roleplay as like an old granny who kills enemies with her shoe

I am reading blood meridian but am stoped at the beginning because it seems like a bummer does it get better?

>/lit/ comes to Sup Forums
>they give some sound discussion on fiction

i should visit /lit/ more often

literally the only fantasy I can stand

>just an interactive novel?
still has more combat than nu men era lmfao

looks like a darth vader/dr doom butt baby

what does being a troskyite have to do with being an SJW

you realise most SJWs don't even consider themselves communists right, seeing as most SJWs care more about identity politics than economics

>his work always struck me as very relevant to video game narratives
There is probably not a single aspect of reality that Borges would not be relevant to. Seriously, the guy was the greatest writer and literary scholar of the last two centuries, he was absolutely, mindboggingly brilliant.

That said, I agree that particular relevance to games can be found. Especially in his approach to world-building (Tlon, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius is one of the best stories about world-building I've ever read. Also about literature, philosophy and totalitarian regimes), perspective and formal experimentation in narratives. He was the guy who proposed a model of a branching story books way before postmodernism made it cool.

It also seems that you and I are not the only people who thought Borges was interesting to game industry. Russian game Pathologic borrows HEAVILY from multitude of his stories, Ultima Ratio Regum is based on his works, and belive it or not, Borges was a life-long obsession of Newell and Lidlaw of Valve's fame, who have been working together on a Borges-based game for perhaps a decade before the project was sadly scratched. The game was supposed to be inspired primarily by the stories "Aleph" and "Library of Babel", and ultimately inspired a lot of Steam features in the end.

oh fuck off you know he would be insufferable to talk to about anything other than the weather and what male to male attraction oil he uses

>t. Fallout 4 player

>you realise most SJWs don't even consider themselves communists right
No they don't, they're socialist as the name social justice warrior implies.

Its like 1984, all language is being erased. How can you rebel against your torture if all you know is fallout 4?

See

that made me realise, I have no idea who that guy is supposed to be, I should reread the series

>what does being a troskyite have to do with being an SJW
The progressive left, that is what we usually mean by "SJWs" is all fundamentally based on Marxist philosophy. It's just important to differenciate between Marxism/Marxist philosophy, and communism. The two aren't the same, even if the latter is a particular, specific application of the former.

i always felt like Myst and Riven took a lot of inspiration from borges and other authors. check those out if you haven't already