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this tier list is shit, the tiers aren't mutually exclusive. Kill yourself.

>elder god tier
Pic related

...

I don't remember what his motives were. All I can remember from the game are a few locations and the freaky spider chick.

he just wanted his wife back

I agree with this list.

haha the only way a character can be good is if he wants to kill his dad and fuck his mum haha i am so smart

Huey did nothing wrong.

Archtypes vs Execution

but where's peebee

this. Sorting villains by their motivations alone is pretentious middle school-tier character analysis.

Best list since it includes the biggest cunt in the history of video games Eric Sparrow.

This is a perfect list

The descriptions are fine, but Handsome Jack? Really? Sure, he sees himself as a hero, but his motivations aren't actually good and he isn't a good guy. He's an asshole who wants to murder everyone who won't obey and follow him.

In her swamp

This.
A character's strength lies in execution and development, villains included

I wouldn't put siblings as Great Tier.

Blood relation is literally laziest way to tie one character to another.

Big smokes motives were better than cj's and sweet's.

He's kind of an asshole in Borderlands 2, but in the pre-sequel it's pretty clear he's an alright guy, there's some shittiness to him sure, but the vault hunters are huge assholes who deserve his wrath.

They're such cunts in that

Disagree with handsome jack. Aside from that it's solid.

Huey could've been a great villain if he was less of an actual villain and less pathetic about it

It's not about technicalities like that, it's about how good rivals are as villains, and many rivals involves siblings
Vergil, Liquid Snake/Ocelot, Vorkken, Jeanne in 1, Azel, etc... are memorable and unique in a good way and deserve their tier

Nigga just wanted:
TWO NUMBER 9S
A NUMBER 9 LARGE
A NUMBER 6 WITH EXTRA DIP
A NUMBER 7
TWO NUMBER 45S
ONE WITH CHEESE
AND A LARGE SODA

I haven't seen a villain that I wanted to defeat in a long time. It's either forgettable crap, no villain or "hurr he's not as bad as you think" bullshit.

only ones that really come to mind are that cunt eric sparrow and part 1 dio brando

There are people on Sup Forums right now who think skullface is a great villain

All of Jack's "Hero" potential goes out the window at the end of PS when it becomes clear he's succumbed to Vault-lust. He just wants the power of the guardian, and the brand on his face is indicative of how he's lost it.

>Wild Hunt
>1 dimensional

Did the person who made that image even play the fucking game?

I'm just replaying Oblivion right now.

Fun thing about Mankar Camoran, he actually makes sense the more you think about it. By the end of it I didn't want to kill him, I wanted to just sit down and listen to every single thing he had to say.

I think he was right about Tamriel simply being another plane of Oblivion, with Lorkhan as its Daedra.

>Ask yourself! How is it that mighty gods die, yet the Daedra stand incorruptible? How is it that the Daedra forthrightly proclaim themselves to man, while the gods cower behind statues and the faithless words of traitor-priests? It is simple... they are not gods at all. The truth has been in front of you since you first were born: the Daedra are the true gods of this universe. Julianos, Dibella and Stendarr are all Lorkhan's betrayers, posing as divinities in a principality that has lost its guiding light. What are Scholarship, Love and Mercy when compared to Fate, Night and Destruction? The gods you worship are trifling shadows of First Causes. They have tricked you for Ages.
>Why do you think your world has always been contested ground, the arena of powers and immortals? It is Tamriel, the realm of Change, brother to Madness, sister to Deceit. Your false gods could not entirely rewrite history. Thus you remember tales of Lorkhan, vilified, a dead trickster, whose heart came to Tamriel. But if a god can die, how does his heart survive? He is daedroth! TAMRIEL AE DAEDROTH! "This Heart is the heart of the world, for one was made to satisfy the other." You all remember this. It is in every legend. Daedra cannot die, so your so-called gods cannot erase him from your minds completely.

Then you go read his Commentaries on the Mysterium Xarxes and it all just starts making more and more sense.

>CHIM. Those who know it can reshape the land. Witness the home of the Red King Once Jungled.

The dude just makes more sense the more you learn about him.

Even CDPR admitted they fucked up the wraiths of the Wild Hunt. Hearts of Stones villain was so strong because they were trying to fix the fact that they didn't have a compelling, magically powerful villain.

Eric Sparrow is legit the best, most memorable, and easily the biggest cunt I can think of from a vidya

Games aren't the medium to be trying this sort of stuff either given the lower average quality of writing and the fact you need to give the player story incentives to continue playing.
If you don't feel like you want to defeat the bad guy then where's the hook to bother with the plot?
The game won't give you enough agency to change their mind or join them or whatever, you'll have to defeat them in the end anyway so why not make them a character you'd actually want to beat the shit out of to make it a satisfying end?

He's TES's 17-19th century European philosophers (Descartes, Nietzsche, etc), trying to figure out the world's state
He's right in his words. But we know how the TES verse works so most people forget about that

They had no personality what so ever you fucking Witcherdrone. They were just guys in evil armour.
Hang yourself.

You realize that mankar is literally the equivalent of a suicide cult leader?

Everyone of his followers that ended up in paradise literally get tortured to death and then are reborn and tortured again.

You are enjoying the ravings of a madman that im sure even sheogorath himself would think is fucked up.

The Wild Hunt were fucking clowns

it's a space elf who wants humans to die because something

Get on the fucking boat, Huey.

DUDE, NO!

You're missing the point. Hermetic philosophy and shit, know pain to escape your protonymic, become the anticedent of your parents and create your own neonymic. This is the exact thing he was talking about in the first book of his commentaries.

His understanding of Tamriel is equal to that of Vehk, perhaps even one of the gods themselves. Note that in TES: because the world is fucked up and illogical, the people who understand most about it will seem fucked up and illogical.

Are there any egoist or absurdist villains in video games?

Plenty

He even speaks about Lyg toward the back end of his commentaries. You gotta be crazy "on the right track" in TES to even understand that Lyg exists "somewhere" but he speaks about Lyg as if it's a place he's seen.

Not a great list but at least better than OP's regurgitated garbage of "how good a vilain is depends on how morally acceptable their motivations are".

Dagon gave him a book

And that book was written by Xarxes, The god of ancestry and secret knowledge

Who kept track of things since the beginning of time.

Hermaus mora also gifted xarxes with a fuckload of knowledge.

Mankar knows about lyg because xarxes probably wrote about lyg.

He also says that the "Nine divines" were traitors to lorkhan. Which is impossible because talos mantled lorkhan and took the role of the ninth diving after his death in the early third era.

Hes off his nutter and blabbers nonsense to idiots that believe him. Congrats, I'll see you in one of your mythic dawn ambushes. I'll be the one with an ebony greatsword cleaving your friends in half.

This list is perfect, minus great tier. Well done user.

>These (What im assuming are) two faggots arguing over the biggest idiot in Elder Scrolls lore.

...

Putting memelands on that list makes it b8.

He talks about Lyg as if he walked on it though.

And you're speaking as if Vivec never made any mistakes in his writings, yet you're not calling Vehk a nutter or a gibbering idiot.

Even the tribunal temple admitted half the shit in Vehks teachings were contradictory and probably just shit he just made up.

Plus you're ignoring all the hermetic association in his writing, which makes me thing you either A) Didn't read it or B) don't know dick.

>King Dedede
>motives are hard to find fault in
Literally the one time he was a villain was because he took all the food from the people in Dream Land, leaving them to starve, and Kirby wanted to stop that.
I don't understand how that can be viewed as something hard to find a fault in. Starving your subjects is bad.

Whoever made this and whoever agrees with this is retarded.

Adachi is a terrible villain and he was LITERALLY made the villain at the last minute when they decided to not make Dojima the killer and they just threw it on Adachi instead. His motives are nonsense, stop memeing you fucking retards.

Swap the shit tier description with the elder god tier and its good.

>villain occupies each tier to varying degrees depending on the player's POV
beyond elder god

>Your speaking as if vivec never made any mistakes in his writings

Vivec isnt even mentioned in what i said because hes not relavent.

I thought we were talking about mankar. Or are you trying to shift the topic to vivec because you know your losing this arguement?

who it the second character on shit tier?

>not recognizing handsome jack.

Out with you.

the guy above him

Durandal was just a dick who wanted to live forever and play God. In the end, he was still just as rampant and unstable

oh.

I found it. it's an uncharted villain. zoran lazarevic

Dedede did nothing wrong, it was a necessary evil in order to stop the overpopulation of Dreamland.

This guy had clear and justifiable motives, I like how well written he is even though I don't like him that much

Not replying to ?
Thought so.

Honestly this post upset me

>t. someone who didn't finish the series

Is Durandal really a villain, though? He's a massive dick, definitely, but I don't know that he's a villain.

Who is the guy next to sparrow in god tier?

I did. The only time I can say that Durandal did something somewhat nice is during the first timeline of Infinity when he tells you to try and board Tycho's ship and that maaaaybe you can escape the w'rkncacnter. Outside of that, it's implied during the credits of Marathon 2 he was only on Lh'owon for that sweet Jjaro tech, and that helping against the Pfhor was just because they were in the way. Don't get me wrong, he still helped, but he was definitely a selfish asshole

>one of the greatest villains in video game history was in a game about skateboarding
Blows my mind

If you can relate to the villain it's kind of hard to call him anything higher than a mid to high tier villain.

That's like saying, "because you are poor, I understand why you would steal bread, and are thus not as bad as Satan or Loki, but you're still in the same category as Satan and Loki."

k dude

Name literally 5 examples

>Is Durandal really a villain, though?
Hell yeah he is. He literally killed defenseless BOBs to spite you

For a large portion of the first game, and you also go against him several times in Infinity. Plot-wise, he's more of a protagonist than the Security Officer is.
Like I said, it is a matter of perspective. The case can be made for each tier.
>Shit tier: just evil or lust for power
You made a pretty good case for his motivation being simple powerlust already.
>Meh tier: motives are a mystery and seem almost insane at times.
He fits this archetype in your first encounters with him in the first game, while he's still unstable in an earlier stage of rampancy.
>Mid tier: only obeying their nature and doing what they do to survive.
Durandal explicitly spells this one out for us multiple times. His primary motivation is survival. The most immediate threat to his existence is humanity. Then the Pfhor. Then the Wrkcacnter. Finally, finding a way around entropy and escaping the "closure of the universe" was his long game.
>High tier: retaliating against misdeeds done against them.
Durandal seeks vengeance against Dr. Bernhard, a scientist who essentially tortured him for research. His disregard for human life is also pretty understandable, when he points out to the security officer that the Pfhor's slave state is not that different from us, when humanity enslaved Durandal for centuries, and he now enslaves the officer.
>Great tier: only does evil things because of the situation they find themselves in
Almost everything he does is a pragmatic action in pursuit of his final goal of survival, with every tool he has at hand. He does what he does because it must be done to ensure his continued existence.

(cont'd)
>Elder god tier: motives are hard to find fault is and arguably better than the hero's.
Again, his primary motivation is survival. Further, lets look at what he actually does to accomplish this. He called the Pfhor to the Tau Ceti colony, which seems awful on the face of it. But, Durandal points out, the Pfhor were on the cusp of discovering humanity anyway, Earth-first. That would have been far worse. Instead, the Pfhor got a surprise ass-kicking at Tau Ceti, and then lost a large portion of their most venerated fleets at Lh'owon, and at least 10,000 years later humanity is still kicking around the stars. He freed the Sph't from slavery. Again, this is all pragmatic and pretty morally gray stuff, but compared to the rest of the characters, he's got the high ground. I mean, the security officer is a war criminal, and he is totally complicit in Durandal's less savory actions. He's doing it to survive. But so is Durandal.

Dr. Breen's motives are better than Gordon's.

Did the lungfish refuse to breathe air? It did not. It crept forth boldly while its brethren remained in the blackest ocean abyss, with lidless eyes forever staring at the dark, ignorant and doomed despite their eternal vigilance. Would we model ourselves on the trilobite? Are all the accomplishments of humanity fated to be nothing more than a layer of broken plastic shards thinly strewn across a fossil bed, sandwiched between the Burgess shale and an eon's worth of mud?

god i wish i was that pizza right now

Lezard Valeth

reverse this list, and we can agree.

>He called the Pfhor to the Tau Ceti colony, which seems awful on the face of it. But, Durandal points out, the Pfhor were on the cusp of discovering humanity anyway, Earth-first. That would have been far worse.
You make a good point here, but to me, this has always been a bullshit excuse by Durandal. Imagine you're the security officer, the most badass cyborg of all time and you were just woken up after 17 years of cryosleep in a Pfhor stasis pod on some shithole planet and Durandal, the guy who caused all this shit in the first place, is trying to lead you around. Obviously Durandal NEEDS the Security Officer, him and the BOBs alone don't stand a chance against the Pfhor Garrison so he needs to get you on his good side. So that's why he says that it was for the best, it was a convenient excuse. I doubt Durandal actually had Humanity's best intentions in mind. Can I prove this? No, but during M1 he really doesn't show much compassion for any humans.

> He freed the Sph't from slavery
Only for the Pfhor ship.

>He's doing it to survive. But so is Durandal.
Well that's sorta my point. To me, Durandal basically only uses people. If he can't gain something out of using you, he doesn't care about you. Which is why he used the Tau Ceti colony as bait so he could escape on the Pfhor ship. It's why he let the BOBs leave in M1 after he 'resurrected'. As he already had what he wanted

Marathon is a very deep game though, so there's tons of ways to look at it

Holy shit, a "villains who did nothing wrong" thread that doesn't have Griffith in it.

Ganon wanted what was right for his people.

Hes not completely bad.

youtube.com/watch?v=1-CKeklGVog

youtube.com/watch?v=RlqJZSk2GVY

Not that guy but Lezard didn't strike me as an egoist or anything, just an obsessive stalker guy lusting after valkyrie.

>Eric Sparrow
I have never hated a video game character as much before or since.
Nothing, no world-conquering, universe-destroying abstract being's brutal death was as satisfying as elbowing that shitbird in his goddamn face.
youtube.com/watch?v=QMbHn7KU39k

Pure fucking kino

Dio goes from being the most hated villain of all time to a homoerotic meme master.

Handsome Jack is a faggyfaggot. Borderlands was a mistake. It brought that whole pay to play/level gun cancer. It should go the way of Anthony Burch

I can agree with the elder god tier. I mean I like villains I can sympathize with. I thought Lucien from Fable 2 was a good example. But yeah l just hating the villain's guts and wishing harm and misfortune on them is always top tier. Makes it satisfying when they lose/perish

Heihachi is the best villain

Fuck Lucien

Great Tier is only right on games with good gameplay
Rivals fucking sucks if the gameplay's trash

I can live with this since it's talking about being an actual villain instead of ranking villains depending on how anti-hero they are.
Take Solidus for example who is entirely forgettable but is defended because "but he's an anti-hero! that makes him so deep and complex!"

The only thing missing on this list are villains who you end up liking despite being pieces of shit, but I guess those rank a little low even if they are fun characters