If god exists why would he allow us to feel pain and suffering...

If god exists why would he allow us to feel pain and suffering? Why wouldn't he step in years ago to fix the chaos that this world is?

BAZINGA

because he doesn't exist and your parents are sadistic cunts for bringing you to such a shit hole of a planet

Poorly coded

if god isn't aware of the suffering going on then he isn't allknowing. if he is aware of it but unwilling to do anything about it, then he's not benevolent. if he's aware of it but unable to act, then he isn't omnipotent. why call him a god then?

You presume god has the same sensibilities as flesh-bound beings. He/she/it can exist yet be unmoved by our temporal plight.

Like this user said, , people like to believe god has three aspects
>Omnipresent
>Omnipotent
>Completely Benevolent

However, the problem is that these can't seem to co-exist together. If he is omnipotent and omnipresent while also completely benevolent, why do we suffer? We can easily make sense of this by removing one of the three aspects.

>He is completely benevolent and sees all, but can do nothing
>He is completely benevolent and can do anything, except be everywhere at once
>He is all-powerful and all-seeing, but not benevolent.

Just pick whichever one makes you most comfortable.

Just because God doesn't actively take part in your life doesn't mean he's imaginary. You might just be agnostic.

What's the issue here?
N64 emulation is fine enough for the fifteen minutes you are going to spend dicking around Super Mario 64 before coming back to shit post and not play vidya. I just finished all of Conker's on the most recent P64 and it was fine. Accurate? Not really. But totally playable with little annoyances.

Then what's the purpose of creating us? What is our purpose on this planet if he/it/she doesn't care?

Maybe he/she/it wanted some toys to play with. It must get boring in a timeless, all-encompassing existence.

humanity as a whole seems to be thriving. you can't bake a cake without breaking a few eggs. imagine you're caring for an ant colony. as long as they're in good health and the colony is expanding, that's good, right? you probably won't even notice individual ants dieing.

I REALLY like this picture. You won't mind if I save it, right?

He is testing us.

>why did the pot maker make clay vases? shouldn't he make something more ergonomic like tables?

not to be biblical but that is pretty funny. i wouldn't ask a dollar what the best course of payment is.

>He is testing us.
This. The worlds still in Early Access.

BUT FIRST, LET'S TALK ABOUT PARALLEL UNIVERSES

God is the greatest troll ever created.

He's testing you
Only the worthy ones make it

GO BACK TO Sup Forums YOU NON GAMING FUCKWITS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

It's actually simpler than that, as Occam put it:

If god is omnipotent and able to do anything, then god has the capability to do great evil and thus cannot be wholly good.

all me

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

N64 emulation is a lot better if you stop using Jabo's plugins like a total pleb.

God's real, it's just he'd rather fuck around with aliens than do anything with you. He's ashamed with how this experiment ended up, so yeah.

Don't worry, you'll all still be going to Heaven and shit (infinite space and all that) but don't expect to ever meet the guy.

>Source: I'm an alien

Just because you have schizophrenia doesn't mean everyone does. You might just be criminally insane.

god gave mankind free will because he doesnt want to have robots and slaves follow him

the actions of evil men make an evil world where bad things happen to good people

god allows you to experience this so that you never forget the full extent of evil when you move on to the next life, and how it destroys and consumes everything

thus, jesus is the answer

Both Pain and Suffering are subjective

God merely put you into world, how you interpret it is your own decision

>pain is subjective
If you get shot, you are objectively going to feel pain, and suffer unless your wound is treated. How you experience pain is subjective, you might have a higher tolerance for it, but pain in itself is not subjective.

That's where the problem lies. Why put us into a world for us to figure out and then ultimately we die? So far, there hasn't been a universal factual reason for the meaning or purpose of life. Most will always say some kind of hedonistic joy is the meaning

Free will, bitches. It'd have no meaning if God could just intervene any other century to fix this or that, we wouldn't have any real freedom if he could nullify anything he or part of humanity doesn't like

Christ going on the cross was the clean slate for humanity's old sins, it starts off the era where God officially fucks off from human affairs until judgement day

A god isn't necessarily omnipotent or allknowing. Maybe he's just a dick.

The biggest line of bullshit you will ever get from these christfags when you've backed them into a corner like this is "god works in mysterious ways".

Then he is a demon, not a god.
You religious nutjobs will say anything to cling to your archaic beliefs.

If there's a God why do you think he is obligated to nurture and take care of you like a little baby?

If you had an ant farm, would you be worried about the emotional well being of every worker in it?

BUY TODD'S GAME

I'm a atheist but I don't keep spurting shit I know nothing about like you. Gods can be dicks, you have to have failed all history lessons since the first grade to not recognize this.

Please pick up a dictionary
A demon is a intermediate being between men and gods
A god is just a god
Zeus was a rapist and a huge cunt, it doesn't make him a demon.

I guarantee that there is someone out there with an Ant farm who has labeled and named all of them.

Your reasoning for god not having to care for the things he's created is absolute garbage.

...

All interesting theories. A good read is Mark Twains The Mysterious Stranger where Satan is actually god. Basically he treats us like ants and the fact that he is so powerful and omnipotent to him we are so minuscule that comparing us to ants would be a vastly overwhelming comparison.

Essentially what he does to change our fates makes no difference to him because hes already seen everything and anything that has, is, and will happen. He shows the children in the story that he can change fates, for example one person was destined to die in a cell for the rest of his days so instead satan drowned him in a river to shorten his inevitable death. The mother then curses gods name questioning why he would kill her only child when she has been a good christian. Its a good read and a fun shift of perspective.

Personally I believe more akin to Einsteins thoughts, that we are in some kind of simulation or inception type situation. He believed that there is too much evidence that points to all of this being made and not naturally existing. Basically we are in a big sandbox.

Reasoning for God having to care for people is garbage.

>Zeus was a rapist and a huge cunt, it doesn't make him a demon.
It does to the people who believed Zeus was a demon. Just because the original believers worshiped him as a god doesn't mean later people didn't bemoan him as a demon, or reject him entirely (which they did).
Gods and demons are just human constructs, they can be whatever the fuck someone who believes in that nonsense wants, because that is their purpose. To answer the hardest questions about life, where it started, what its purpose is, where it leads. All the answers lie in the heavens, if you believe.

yes but betrayed by the angels he created

like literally read the bible instead of shitting on it you ignorant fuck

life is your proving ground

Heaven > Second Life > Non-existence > Hell = Purgatory

True facts.

So then hes a garbage god then. It's like having a child and abandoning it.

Are there video games in heaven?

>betrayed by the angels
why didn't he just smite them and only keep the good angels then
>literally read the bible
okay... oh shit, I'm wearing polyester. time for me to go to hell

"Betrayed by the angels he created" Do you know how stupid that sounds? And You're calling that shit ignorant?

"Betrayed by the angels he created" News flash, he's god. He would know right off the bat if the shit he created is bad because he HIMSELF designed it. So why would he create something that he KNOWS would backfire on him?

Next thing you're gonna say is
>ohh no he's mysterious thats why
>UGHHH You just don't GET god

if you want to go full occam's razor then what is more likely, a universe of simple physical laws that sprung up out of nothing, or an infinitely complex fully conscious all powerful deity that sprung up out of nothing and then created a universe of simple physical laws

You don't know what Occam's razor is do you? The whole god being omnipotent and evil is the original Occam's razor. You are literally arguing against Occam's razor with some interpretation you made up and then called Occam's razor.

Just like we are all garbage people. Wouldn't a better God have made more impressive children?


If one wants to believe in God, they have to accept he may well be emotionally unstable and have aspergers.

colloquially occam's razor means that the simplest explanation is the one most likely to be true

inventing a fantastical god creature to explain why there is a universe is much more farfetched an explanation than a universe simply existing on its own

I don't believe in anything I cannot see, but I doubt any higher power looks anything like humanity's interpretation.
Look at all the Gods of history - Thoth, Odin, Satan. All human or animal-like in appearance, because that is what's most familiar to us.
I think if a deity ever reveals itself or is discovered, it's not likely to look like anything on this earth.

>we are all garbage people
You're projecting so hard that you could point yourself at a wall and show off power point presentations.

Your entire argument falls apart because you think you have a perfectly clear understanding of good and evil. How do you know that pain, suffering and chaos isn't a good thing?

>how do you know the sky isn't blue?
Sup Forums is sometimes too retarded for words

If someone is omnipotent then they are by definition also omnipresent and omniscient.
An omnipotent being cannot have restrictions placed upon it because then it wouldn't be omnipotent.

How do you know that love, joy and peace aren't bad things?
How do you know if mirrors are real? Are you fucking serious?

But god is supposed to be perfect

I see your insecurities have been triggered. Do we not all lie or hold biases which may be observed as hypocritical? Does any man truly love the each of his neighbors or us that simply an ideal we strive toward in acknowledgement of our own flawed nature?

What's odd is that I've been thinking this all week, and to see it posted here is kind of weird.

Is this a way of God reaching out to me, but not in the upfront way?

You know, time is not a dimension, it's a perseption linked to our being in this world. For an all-knowing God that is probably beyond our dimensional scope, his all-knowingness is similar for us as to experience the course of time.

With our limited perception of colors, how do you know the sky really IS blue?

No, we are just both fascinated by the idea of lovecraftian horror - the fundamentally inexplicable.

jesus christ. I don't know. Maybe if you mother died in her sleep tomorrow along with all of your family and friends, would that be a good thing? That sounds completely stupid doesn't it? Now you see how absolutely STUPID your statements are

Here's a (You).
Because I think you're right;

All of those can be bad things.

Everything comes down to context and there's too little information to generalize a feeling we have on having been constructive or not.

The sky appears blue to me because my senses tell me it is so. I imagine it would appear different to someone who can't see the color that most people identify as blue, though. We only have our senses to tell us how we perceive the world, after all.
If you were shot, you would experience pain and eventually suffering if your wound wasn't treated. How do you know being shot isn't a good thing? I've answered you, so I want you to answer me. If you can't think of an answer, tell me that too.

If they all go to heaven, maybe it's better than stumbling around in this physical world ?

He's right. God's obviously perfect so the decision to take them all must be so, too. The suffering he'd experience as a result would also be good because God willed it to be so.

Which lends to the conclusion that, clearly, God intends for you to suffer.

>Free will, bitches.
Is a non-concept entirely based around a fundamental ignorance of how human conscious and thought operates.
Also, please fuck off and die, you cancerous fucking christfag. It isn't the 1200s any more. None of you faggots have an excuse for being religious.

According to christian beliefs, God does not test us. We are testing ourselves. God does not abandon anyone willfully, it's up to each and every one of us to choose if we want to be with God or reject God.
For those that reject God, God gives them a place where He doesn't exist. Not as punishment, but by graciousness. This existing outside of God, this is what we call "Hell".

The difference being the number of situations where the context of love, joy and peace being ultimately negative things is far lower when compared to the number of situations where the context of pain, suffering and chaos lead to ultimately positive things. So on the whole, love, joy and peace and largely considered to be positive things while pain, suffering and chaos are largely considered to be negative things. That's why you say "I suffered a painful blow to my stomach" rather than "a joyous strike was delivered lovingly to my belly".

At least we have an excuse to be alive.

I find it amusing that we define god to be extra natural and yet attempt to understand it through human logic and rationality.

Then why is it that every tale of enlightenment and catharsis is associated to a character having had to suffer a great deal? There exists no example of virtue where a person had to live without suffering.

Surely its agreeable to say too that people often love the wrong things. We have addictions and attractions for danger or people who are of negative influence. Sometimes love is not desirable and a detriment to us maintaining a good nature.

The primitive brain is the only one who associates something to be good or bad based solely on the way it made them immediately feel. There has been philosophy of different types regarding suffering as a chance to embody virtue for thousands of years. This is even a component of Christianity.

There is a book in my language that explains that. Maybe you can look for it in yours or in English even.

Why do Bad Things happened if Gol is good? Rhodes, Ron

it depends on the religion, a lot of modern jews that I know don't anthromorphize God at all and generally believe God created the basic systems by which life and the universe works by but doesn't intervene in every day-by-day instance, at least from what I heard.

christianity and iirc esp Islam believe suffering is meant to make people stronger and test their faith

I may be wrong though

Danm auto correct.

Why do Bad Things happen if God is Good? By Ron Rhodes

He doesn't exist, so we have to work together to make this world better in the here and now

>open thread thinking it's gonna be emulation tech support

>NOPE LETS ALL GET EDGY ABOUT GOD

Because those tales thrive on the idea that the bad comes before the good. That doesn't make the bad good in reality. If you had to suffer through another ordeal to reach further enlightenment or catharsis, you wouldn't relish it, you would despise it and hasten along to stop the suffering. Suffering and pain may lead to good things, but they are not good intrinsically.

>If you had to suffer through another ordeal to reach further enlightenment or catharsis, you wouldn't relish it,

If you accepted the opportunity to suffer knowing that it will make you better then yes, you do. This isn't an uncommon viewpoint, and part of why many people enjoy Epictetus today. The concept of Amor Fati was also adopted by Nietzche.

>colloquially occam's razor means that the simplest explanation is the one most likely to be true

It's also an inaccurate interpretation of the razor, so it's pointless to rely on it

It's more about the amount of assumptions you make, meaning that if you have to assume a god exists in order to explain your model, it's more complex than a model that doesn't assume one

>There exists no example of virtue where a person had to live without suffering.

Well, the story of the Buddha says he grew up without suffering. It doesn't say whether he was cruel or kind during that time, but when he saw other people's suffering he was deeply moved, which implies he was kind as a child.

>many people enjoy philosophy
>the concept
Yes, but the fact remains that if you were put in a situation like that, you would do everything in your power to avoid further pain and suffering, minimizing the amount you had to endure before it ended. You can try to argue against this, but you're objectively wrong, because nobody likes suffering or pain. Some people just enjoy what comes after.

Doesn't the bible explicitly stage that God is a jealous God? Like when does it ever state that he is completely benevolent.

And I don't think him being completely benevolent should matter to you anyway, you're supposed to be God fearing, not so arrogant that you believe that because he isn't completely benevolent you shouldn't worship him.

Yeah long story short, I never really got the "If he isn't completely benevolent then why worship him" thing. I mean if that's how you're going to go about it, then if he was completely benevolent then also why worship him?

Simplicity means least complex, complexity means the number of dependencies in a system, ergo "the most simple" is the same as "the least complex" which is the same as "the fewest number of assumptions"

And anyway "Occam's Razor" isn't a rule (in the rigorous sense of the word), or a law (in the natural or mathematical sense), or something found in nature; it's just a methodology that says generally you ought to pick between the lesser of two weevils

I was hoping for POORLY CODED memes

Thank you for reiterating much better what I was trying to say

>Doesn't the bible explicitly stage that God is a jealous God?

That's Old Testament, New Testament says the angels are going to pour seven deadly vials in the oceans, and a great meteor named Wormwood will poison the earth, and a terrible slumbering beast will awaken from the depths only to die in the boiling seas

It also says if sues you, you should also give them your coat

It says a lot of contradictory bullshit and christians are fucking retards who cherry pick, add their own non-canon texts and interpretations, and choose to omit some of the extreme nonsense (like the fact that there's more than 10 commandments, there's over a hundred, and they're baffling as shit) while following the other nonsense like killing gays even though Jesus said love everyone, especially those whom are hardest of all to love

>If god exists why would he allow us to feel pain and suffering?

I'm a theologian and have no affinity to any major religion. I'm surprised at the sheer number of people who ask this question. If you believe the Bible, it clearly states that after the 'Eden experiment' God let humans rule themselves. They'd rule themselves, with as little interference (from him) as possible, to prove, without doubt, that they can't do it successfully without him.

Before the Eden test, the God of the Bible, Torah, Quran told Adam and Eve, if they did you know what, they'd feel pain, death, and because they chose Satan and themselves, they'd live under Satan and themselves. It was a deal of sorts. If people actually wanted the answer, they'd find it out.

This is where the arguement of free will comes into play. If God is omniscient he knows who will and won't be saved or even seek salvation, it's all part of his plan already. But we cant know how things will play out from every action ever taken, we're only human.

Sure sounds like a nice guy

If I ever meet him I'll spit in his face

Buddhism itself has suffering as a key condition of life. We suffer because we want, but wanting is not necessarily an evil.

Buddhism seeks to remove greed and other corrupting influence from the person, but not desire altogether.

Suffering, as I've explained, isn't intrinsically bad. People should avoid it until they can't, at which point they have a choice to run from it or resolve to find meaning in it with the ideal of self-discovery.

Any who'd choose the former I very highly doubt could ever be an exceptional person.

What's all this about, OP? N64 emulation is fine.

I was merely talking on a theological and philosophical standpoint, I'm an atheist, you douche

Because if he would exist he'd be an evil sadistic cunt with a twisted sense of humour.
I mean, who wouldn't?

Nice job proving His point.