Why the fuck can't devs make good melee combat?

Why has no third person game surpassed God Hand/DMC4?
Why has no first person game surpassed Dark Messiah?

What the hell is stopping devs from playing these games and copying what they do right?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=SljB_5WWOho
youtube.com/watch?v=6AV9W2ZdmjU
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

Too complicated for causals

never played that game, but goddamn that gif looks like the worst melee combat i've ever seen

maybe you just have shit taste OP.

This is the reason

God Hand fucking sucked. The movement especially.

Nobody likes combos anymore for some reason. In fact, people fucking hate combos, they think they're cheap, but getting fucking awesome combos is what made melee combat great in the past.

It looks bad because the person playing is just retardedly showing off stuff that doesn't do any damage. He dodged for like 90% of the webm instead of hitting for no reason because he thought it might look cool.

Devs just copy memesouls shitty combat and call it a day.

Sleeping Dogs was solid but got too simplistic. It really just needed more enemy varieties.

Mark of Kri had the best combat ever. Prove me wrong.

>tfw a 9 years old game still has the best air combat

You mean Zelda gameplay.

>Why has no first person game surpassed Dark Messiah?

Fuck this mediocre meme game that most people only like because of waifushit.

The best, by far, first person melee game was Condemned. Dark Messiah doesn't even come close.

>people actually fucking think God hand is good
Holy shit I couldn't even imagine having such awful taste. Literally one of the worst games I have ever played.

Breakdown is the only good first person melee game.

Combos are retarded normally because they negate skill. Your opponent could be the best in the world, but if you get a lucky hit he might as well put down the controller while you play the combo minigame, timing your inputs only against yourself, there is no interaction with the opponent once the combo starts.
Combos done correctly would be Melee et. al.; interaction with the opponent, retaining the ability to combo but only if you're actively interacting with the opponent during the combo.

(you)

I just want an rpg with realistic melee combat. Won't happen anytime soon thanks to shit like For Honor and Mount and Blade though.

Look up absolver. It's basically god hand mixed with dark souls. But not as over the top.

>godhand
>good

stop this meme

Breakdown isn't even a good game, much less a good first person melee game.

Kingdom Come: Deliverance

youtube.com/watch?v=SljB_5WWOho

Reminder that Sony is saving melee combat

What game is this? It doesn't look fun.

>I want an RPG with realistic

Stopped reading there. Just go find a fencing sim.

God hand

I never liked combos ever, if it makes you feel any better.

This also doesn't look fun. You and OP probably have a lot in common.

Somehow Sony manage to make Yakuza's combat actually deep

To all the casuals in this thread shitting on that game they haven't played: Thanks for the free bumps.

t.retarded manchild that buy AAA games in 2017

80% of that game is actually trash though

My guess is it's just one same fag going through all his gadgets to bump this thread.
OK I need to know what game is it?

>this floaty, piss easy piece of power attack spamming shit
>good

Call me casual all you want, Dark Messiah is trash.

Why the fuck can't western devs make good rivals?

Yakuza is made by Sega, and isn't particularly deep at all.

The OP names three video games. Please do some detective work to figure out what is what.

I'm comparing it to the GoW vid retard. And GoW is made by Sony

It's because people want quick instant gratification and flashiness over substance, despite the fact that the flashiness will quickly wear off since games that emphasize this have shallow combat which rely on "cinematic sequences." BamHam/Asscreed combat is a perfect example of this. Casuals lap this shit up and often think of these games as the pinnacle of combat because of cool one button takedowns and streamlined button mashing that will lead to flashy animation. It doesn't take long though for the gameplay to become repetitive since there is less player agency, more cinematic shit, and the overall lack of advanced techs.

On the other hand, take DMC. Stylish Action games like this require practicing and have a steeper learning curve for the combat. In fact, I would say DMC is more akin to fighting games in this regard since practice is important. However, most casuals drop the game and claim it's clunky or bland or some other shit. But that's because there is a greater amount of time that needs to be put in in order to even understand the combat, and even a greater amount of time to learn deeper mechanics, and then an EVEN greater amount of time to apply it into smooth gameplay. Casuals will never reach this level since it requires more than a button input for flashy animation. Ironically, DMC has more style, flashiness, and most of all, substance than any BamHam game but you won't ever see that at surface level.

Too hard for casuals.
The average casual makes DSP look like a MLG champion.
The closest thing we'll ever get is more QTEfest like MGR.

English PR game who has nothing to do with the game development

I see, so Dark Messiah then?

Why am I reminded of when Sup Forums got pissed off because all those Japanese devs named Skyrim their GOTY?

The fuck is BamHam?

DMC 3-4's director was part of the Darkstalkers team and even direct one himself
He just pump the speed up to 20 for DMC

Yeah. Pic related is fun too.

I actually don't even want to it be realistic, just satisfying at least. Games don't even have something as basic as wounds on the model when they're hit, just blood gushing out of the clothes for no reason.

>God hand mixed with dark souls
It looks like For Honor mixed with nothing.

American Sony.

>tfw that guy who was porting xana to sfm died

I wish you could disable the highlights that tell you when to parry and what objects you can smash into.

I never did find the option on the pc version.

batman/asscreed combat i think

>Why has no third person game surpassed God Hand/DMC4?

How about literally every single Ninja Gaiden game with the exception of that turd Yaiba?

Batman Arkham games.

Both webms arent combos / stunlocks or choreographed moves, just "on demand" dodges and attacks when there is a breach in a very fast paced game.

Is like dark souls combat, really, a couple different attack buttons and a dodge, except much faster and with good hitboxes.

>ninja gaiden

Looks like we're pulling out all the memes tonight

...

A trend in combat systems where the player can counter oncoming enemies with generous button press windows, typically without the need for any analog stick input. Meaning there's much less nuance or responsiveness on the part of the controls. Some Platinum games like Bayonetta and Nier Automata feature "Easy Automatic" and "Very Easy Automatic" difficulty settings that similarly simplify inputs. Pic related is Batman Arkham City (I think), second in the Batman Arkham series.

>posting that debunked webm

>*Crumbles (You) and throws it on the ground*

There you go you little slut, it's all yours

Because spamming Flying Swallow takes skill

What's debunked about it? Other than that's it's not defeating any enemy, it's just counters that momentarily stun enemies. Mix in some square mashing and you have a won fight. The game introduces knife enemies that require you press the "cape" button before attacking them and cannot be countered. The combat is still quite simple.

Here's another video that might help people not familiar with the BamHam trend: youtube.com/watch?v=6AV9W2ZdmjU

That webm is a satire, you dumb fuck. Try spamming the counter key like that in-game: you quickly lose rhythm, break the combo, and start getting hit by enemies.

link? I quit playing Arkham city after an hour because the combat was so shit so I've always just laughed at these.

The point is more that after an hour, you're regularly facing groups with knives/shields/tasers/big bastards that can't simply be countered/parried, at which point you're using semi-advanced maneuvers. Granted, it's not fighting game level inputs, but it's less braindead than Zelda or Dark Souls.

>What is the entire fighting genre
>What is the entire hack and slash genre

So this a stylish thread now?

not him, nor have proof, but if i remember correctly, you got in a quick "stunned" mode if you completely miss the counter timer. But you still have a hugefuck window to hit the counter.

...

I see. I will take your word for it and not post it anymore. (note to self: make webms of that shadow of mordor vid)
Still, the combat is quite simple. The way Batman zips around the arena to hit people like The Flash makes positioning unimportant since where you are doesn't matter. And if I recall, other than supers and the cape, you only have one attack button. So you can't really mix it up or made any cool combos.

>Eat
>MA
>PEriod
Every fucking time.

It's more like hate a game you never played thread but I like your idea more

Metal Gear Rising has the best combat I've ever experienced. Only game that is actually fun to play on max difficulty. Getting the counter timing down perfectly is a great feeling -- more games should do this.

>Here are your tools and canvas user! Have fun making your painting!
>*rubs blue paint on asscheeks and smudges it all over the canvas*
>"It's the sky"

Yeah, it's not super complex. It's not a fighting game, it's an action adventure game.
I find the comparisons to fighting games pretty ridiculous, since the game never tried to be a fighting game at all. It's not even a hack-n-slash, it's 100% an adventure game.

I've played it. It's a lot closer to dark souls than for honor. The "combat deck" makes up the god hand influence.

...

I'm not comparing it to a fighting game. If you want, I could compare it to the original Castlevania. Castlevania has you momentarily stopped whenever you attack, meaning you have to be mindful of when you choose to strike and when to dodge. The game also has you lose control and get knocked backwards when you take damage, meaning the player has to be mindful when fighting near gaps making the environment an important part of the combat. The player can also dodge some attacks and enemies by crouching, and some enemies can only be hit by crouching and attacking. This is a game that is over 30 years old. Why is it more mechanically engaging than this AAA Batman game?

>Bam Ham more deep than anything

...

Never understood the praise that Dark Messiah gets. That game plays worse than it looks and enemies are dumber than rocks.

Game is too easy, cool as hell but too easy

>Why is it more mechanically engaging than this AAA Batman game?

Castlevania had you MAINLY just fighting things and jumping pits. Its mechanics had to be well thought out, because that's all you were doing in the game.

Batman is a lot more about exploration, puzzle solving, stealth segments than it is about fighting thugs. It has a myriad of mechanics that are completely unrelated to melee combat.

>That fucking dropkick at the end

castlevania also has infinitely less situations that can arise because it's a much simpler game. Making tradeoffs like that is the only way you can make a simple game like castlevania worth anything.

It isn't more mechanically engaging, you just summed up the entire game's mechanics in 2 lines of text.

>BamHam
>deep
BamHam combat is the SF V of action game

Mount and blade combat is better than dark messiah I think.

Far less interesting environments to fight over, but better fighting to be had.

It has some neat mechanics. But they were all broken as shit and trivialised the entire game so people tended not to use them. Plus it's hard to really make use of it when you don't design the game with tons of things to kick people into.

Also the main reason people don't do more combo games is that only a small number of people actually think optimising combos is fun. And if optimising a combo is your idea of a good time just play guilty gear.

Point is, they could have better combat mechanics.

>Dark Messiah
>good combat

yeah dude I wish more games let you just kick everything in endless pits and spike walls that are just randomly everywhere

m&b doesn't get enough credit for its combat

it appears simple on the surface so people just dismiss it without seeing the actual level of depth it has

You have to be a genuine retard to not only be able to understand how these shitty button mashing games combo systems work but to also say you enjoy it. There is a reason why this genre is dead and the games never sell well. The gamers as a collective whole have spoken.

Not really. They have a single key goal here. make the player feel like the god damn batman. The mechanics kinda need to be easy to do input wise which limits them to tertiary things to make the combat more interesting, tools and zipping around being cool being the ways you push the system rather than optimising your inputs.

It's a small number of people that -really- like getting good at combos. Most people that play action games don't optimise much at all.

Oh Steve, you're always wrong but it always feels so good to watch you flub horrifically in public.

Dark messiah's combat is good, but that's the only good thing about the game. the AI, the story, the visuals, the level design, the campaign, all trash.

>shitty button mashing games combo systems work

Stopped reading there steve-o

Yep pretty much.

>pressing buttons in a controlled rhythm dictated by the player's creativity and the enemy's reaction
>"lol button mashing"

BamHam and AssCreed is button mashing and they sells like hotcakes

Steve Harvey got something wrong. What else is new?

I've tried dumb shit like Dmc 3 and Metal Gear Rising. It wasn't fun and whenever I tried to pull off combos they never worked. Like I said you have to suffer from autism of the highest degree to say you actually have fun playing that shit.

>all these dudes trashing Arkham games that have never played them beyond mashing through the story on normal as fast as possible

trolling used to be an art

Anyway. Arkham honestly has a decent combat system. It isn't super deep but it ramps up gradually and feels satisfying to pull off and you cuss under your breath when you fumble on a shield guy or get careless with aggression and get tagged and lose your combo. You can also flat out die with bad decisions(especially vs enemies with guns) and things can be as efficient(punching only) or as fun(mixing in gadgets to build combo) as you want. Every system in every game doesn't have to be the same and it seems like an excellent starting point to push towards a new plateau, but unfortunately everybody seems content to just keep doing what they've done.

Besides, Arkham's real gameplay crime is usually softballing the boss fights.