Why does it ended up being so fucking bad, Sup Forums?

Why does it ended up being so fucking bad, Sup Forums?

Why couldn't this game be good?

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it's pretty good. pretty sure youre just a salty fuckboy

because the online servers are hosted by cheap ass MMO chinks, which is why it still doesn't have any working online stats tracking or rage quit jail

No it's abysmal stop being an apologist for a company who should know better.

Capcom kept saying that they didn't have enough money to make a next-gen fighting game. Then Sony apparently said that they'd underwrite development for console exclusivity.

If I had to guess, Capcom decided they weren't going to spend a dime on SF5 other than what Sony gave them.

detected smash baby

There's a reason the meme that blocks don't exist online in SFV is real, because it's only a bad game if you're bad at fighting games. SFV has the most simplistic system since SFII.

They never actually said that.

Capcom tried to appeal to both casuals and core audiences and ended alienating both, since casuals are still put off by how hard it is to grasp fundamentals and the core audience is put off by how simplified the game mechanics are compared to previous games and outright bad decisions that Capcom's been making.

The core game is good.
Everything around it is garbage.
As a casual player you have no reason to buy this game.
But then again, I ask myself why would a casual player want to spend $60 on a fighting game's AI instead of a real singleplayer game.

I'm not defending SFV. A lot of the shit is unacceptable and is shit in versus too. But 99% of the complaints about SFV are singleplayer-related when that is the biggest joke in itself.

why is this red herring shit the most common response when people cant actually defend their position

Because the original question was bad. How are you supposed to respond to "Why couldn't this game be good???"

'what makes it bad' and then they will tell you and then you go home sad because you cant actually defend this turd of a game

Fundamentals aren't shit in SFV. Footsies and classic Street Fighter zoning are barely even a part of the game. Game is also simplified to the point where midscreen is just a rock paper scissors game where the answer is always dash, jump, or whiff and buffer something. You would have to be a complete newcomer to fighting games to think that SFV's gameplay is good, or you have to really like guessing in neutral.

Better also mention that whoever loses said midscreen rock, paper, scissors game gets to hold a 10 second frametrap and either eat throws or risk getting their tech baited and punished for 50% of their hp. Reversals are even more of a joke with the season 2 changes as well. Not only do you risk getting baited and punished hard, but you also have to spend your resources now just to take the risk of ending babbies first medium medium frametrap.

>How are you supposed to respond to "Why couldn't this game be good???"

By not being a sensitive little fag, and looking at things objectively. Objectively, this game is lackluster. It's below old Capcom's standards. People only like it due to brand recognition (the scrubs), pot money (the pros), and e-celeb drama (the fanboys on eventhubs and kappa).

>Bullshit chinese servers
>CAPCOM is only CAPCOM in name, original creator and most of the people left similar to Squaresoft -> Square Enix's situation
>System is oversimplified
>So much of the game feels barebones with even basic colors behind grind / paywalls
>Game only allows the freedom to be played one way

Why doesn't anyone talk about how this game has a ridiculously high ratio of 2 or 3 active frame attacks to anything longer? The attacks feel so awful because of it.

A lot of times once you get to Gold you'll notice matches will go down to the wire, where it's one hit and you win or lose. The deciding factor will almost always be a jumping lk / lp, tick throw, or a random ex / reversal hoping you kill them, or that you hit them with a random normal if they don't realize you're plus on block.

Add in fishing for random CCs, and waking up with jab and you have a game where it's actually sometimes more profitable to do random shit just because you might get away with it.

Maybe I should've clarified and just said casuals see getting into the game as too complicated despite all the simplification Capcom has done to SFV.

Most of the characters, v-triggers/skills feel fucking terrible and the normals have way too little range and way too much block stun.

My only beef is that everyone does too much damage

Never played it. What makes this game bad? I only know Urien seems to upset everyone

twitter.com/goldencen/status/841042603026059264

>SFIV revisionists making yet ANOTHER SFV hate thread
>they still think their game series is "complex" and "fundamentals based"
When you people start playing real games with real neutral, you can talk.

this shit is antihype and unfun, high damage, low execution, easy as fuck to do comebacks like this for no reason, but faggots get hyped anyway just like x-factor.

shit is just really fucking stupid

>trash 7

Urien was mid last season but they buffed him so much he gets shitloads of damage out of nothing, he can even stun you in one combo and finish you with the second one depending on the character.

The game also has a bunch of other problems as well but some are more personal preference.

Kbrad is about to do a match

HATERS

>make a Street Fighter game
>launch the game with 14 Cammy's, one zoner, and one Chun Li

The playstyle choice was so homologous and heavy offensive only I got bored of it, I don't like playing like that in fighting games

WILL

>you have to really like guessing in neutral.

I will never understand this excuse. This is all fighting games at midscreen.

BE

Pretty bad that Evo participants for Street fighter has dropped from like 1100 last year to around 450 this year.

It's even more depressing when you try to watch a related stream and every pro player just utterly shits on the game. Even infiltration is fed up at this point

LEFT

Is this how smashbabbies take over?

B E H I N D
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no lol the only time you should guess is if the person is going for a throw or not, and dat shit aint happenin mid screen, maybe in shitty games like killer instinct

COMBOFIEND WAS A MISTAKE
WOSHIGE WAS A MISTAKE
ONO IS STILL A MISTAKE

The fuck you got against KI?

RPS, dial a combos, shitty chars with horrible mechanics and gimmicks, stupid neutral. The fuck do you like KI for again?

>take game that still makes money and has large community momentum
>forcibly remove it from mainstage at majors
>make the sequel exclusive to one console (because no fightanfags play on PC)
>design the game around complaints from whiners rather than fans
>surprised that the community doesn't eat it up

>RPS
All fighting games are RPS, what the fuck?

>Dial a combos
Can be problematic unless you have mechanics that prevent infinite combos, this isn't a UMVC3 situation. Also what, you don't like Tekken?

>Shitty characters/gimmicks
Don't drop an example or anything.

>Stupid neutral
Its an improvised and different take on neutral, what the fuck?

No one likes that garbage

in killer instinct you are constantly guessing, not all fighting games are that way and it shouldnt' be that way

like the past few chars added to the game for starters

and the neutral is bad

Not all fighting games have to be the fucking same. You sound like you NEVER played KI.

they kinda do, to be able to call itself a fighting game, or at least a good one.

>implying
every character feels different and the game is the perfect mix of being welcoming to new players while still being deep enough for pro players.
Unlike SFIV with that plinking garbage where you have to trick the game's controls into working because it was shitty.

>this is all fighting games in midscreen

Not at all. There are scramble situations that can happen at midscreen in any fighting game, but those situations don't define those games the way it does with SFV.

There are always way way more things going on in midscreen, in pretty much any other fighting game that isn't netherrealm shit, that go towards ensuring that the better player wins. I have never played a fighting game that has such a lack of mechanics, midranged space controlling normals, and good projectiles in the way that SFV does.

All fighting games have elements of rock, paper, scissors and guessing in general, but SFV has you in those situations at all times you aren't 3/4 to fullscreen. It makes it impossible to have a consistent strategy for your character and makes the game feel random as fuck. I'm really not even sure if the better player wins in SFV or if it's just a toss up to see who gets in first.

>original creator and most of the people left
That happened long before SF5.

Why do I have these days where I can't even get a win against shitty opposition

>sfv dickrider who can't git gud at anything challenging and hates something they will never be able to do, while also thinking it's required

>the game is the perfect mix of being welcoming to new players while still being deep enough for pro players.

The problem is that it tried too hard to "welcome" new players with dumbing down things from IV like combo potential, fireball moves, nerfing AA normals even worse than IV did, and even the DP. Almost everything about the game is heavily offensive leaning with little leeway.

Is it wrong that I'm really, really starting to like the Spooky stage theme?

TAKE THIS HIGHER

5's combo potential is fine, if anything 4's combo potential was pants on head retarded with literally every combo being able to be safely hit confirmed off jabs.

And yeah, I miss being able to just jab into anything, but I'm not going to pretend that was a quality system.

>unlike SFIV with that plinking garbage
There are uses for plinking in many many more games than just IV, but you can be retarded 16'er that has an allergic reaction to anything technical in a fighting game if you want to.

Plinking, piano inputs, kara cancels, and option selects have been a part of:
-super turbo
-3rd strike
-sfiv
-marvel 3
-any guilty gear game

I'm convinced that anyone defends the randomness and technical vacuousness of SFV is some sort of retard that was never able to reach a semi-competent level in a fighting game before.

I agree with you there on the jabs, I guess I chose the wrong word. Maybe "combo route" would be more accurate? It just feels like there's less choices for BnB combos or stylish shit. I used Ryu a lot in IV and going to V was a big disappointment with him having less fun shit like from Ultra to work with.

Okay yeah I understand that. I miss shit like Gief's green hand too.

Plinking wasn't in 3S. Double tapping was. Not exactly the same thing. And while it was in 3S, it was pretty pointless.

What? and street fighter 4 was good?

If I set connection settings to 4-5 am i pretty much going to find no games?

Currently get the occasional one where it's jittery af and ruins the flow on 3-5

who /leftbehind/?

started playing GG and may go with tekken when it comes out

yes it was, it was so good it brought the fgc back from death

Honestly no banter I think Woshige is the main culprit behind how the game has turned out

He's a fucking Guilty Gear player, who was invited to design a Street Fighter game, those are completely different in the design philosophies and shit

Guilty Gear is based heavily on universal mechanics available to every char, and the game revolves around learning how to apply those mechanics to your offense as a character, and against the opponent character's offense defensively. It's also an anime game, and those have a flimsy guess-based neutra as a general rule almost always due to the mobility options being massively better than Street Fighters, meaning that the majority of pokes are easily bypassed by IADashes and universal double jumps and run momentum preserving effectively extending poke ranges unpredictably and so on
Street Fighter on the other hand was always a game designed around character tools first and foremost, be it normals, specials, movement options unique to the character, and matchup knowledge involved knowing the situations you may be put into by the opponent's tools, and which tools you may have (or not have) to resolve these situations in your favor. The easiest example to provide is SF4's pressure resilience - characters that didn't have a 3-frame normal couldn't punish most of Balrog's dashpunches, while the characters that did have them could. Same with -2 moves - grapplers like Zangief or T. Hawk who had 2-frame command grabs could punish you for those, while most of the cast couldn't.

It seems to me that Woshige (as the game design director or whatever the fuck his position is called) has decided to take both of these philosophies and mash them together, creating a game where universal mechanics (V-Skill, V-Trigger, Crush Counter) are different for every character, with some being extremely useful (Karin's V-skill in neutral) or straight up matchup-defining (Necalli's stomp V-Skill completely demolishing fireball characters)
cont.

I really fucking wish they would just go with actual ping ms results instead of bars, I remember a million people asking for that back when they were getting suggestions on V. Since 3S remake did it I was thinking they were going to do it but I guess not

The bars are still inaccurate like IV

>Millia player ruins everything
I am shocked.

cont.
While some other characters have V-Skills that are basically fucking useless and get you in situations so unfavorable nobody uses them ever outside of swag/extremely niche situations which stem from enemy matchup inexperience (Ryu's V-Skill parry is the prime example, here's a snippet of how terrible it is youtu.be/OlXj9_chTUs?t=862).
Then, on top of that, if you look deeper into the way matchups are in this game, they once again revolve heavily around frame data, which is organised in such a way that unless you know exactly the frames of what move your opponent used, you will never figure out how to stop their pressure. The easy example here is Laura's LP elbow special move, which is pretty match-defining in terms of pressure options that Laura players often use. It's +1 on hit, meaning she's at an advantage and it's still "her turn to play" if it hits, but -2 on block, meaning it's now "your turn" to play - and unless you know that fact, and what options your character has to interrupt a Laura player who relies on matchup inexperience in order to continue pressure with st.lp xx LP Elbow regardless of whether it was blocked or not, you won't be able to get out.

This is a pattern that repeats across many moves - every character has dedicated frame trap buttons that are +2 or +3 on block, and most characters' pressure ends in a -1 or -2 move. The top tiers in the game are those that either happen to have ways to bypass these limitations (i.e. Guile's Sonic Boom being + a million on block, Laura's pressure being completely freeform with 50/50's and mixups at every step etc), or have adequate tools to control the neutral game (or rather, shut down the opponent's neutral game) and a V-Trigger that allows for great pressure bursts for comebacks (Season 1 Chun-Li, Season 2 Urien, Season 2 Balrog).

I have simplified matchups a lot for the sake of the argument, but I believe the key points stand.

tl;dr SFV is a deeply conflicted and flawed game

How much influence did combofiend even have on 5? Seems to have just been a mouth piece for the Japan side.

The main problem with the game at the moment is that several characters have basically no hope of competing at all.

Ryu, FANG, Alex, Vega and Juri are all complete trash.

Even the mid-tiers like Ken don't do very well against the top tiers.

I feel that it's more because the entire fucking thing is happening at Mandalay this year. Wizard has lost his god damn mind.

Man, i just wish the normals were actually good for most characters, |Gief has absolute garbage normals and doesn't even have his green hand, vega has no fucking range with his claw on. Urien is the only one wo feels right in this game.

Gief does not need green hand, its purpose outside of sf4 was to get around fireballs. The only character with a efficient fireball game is guile who was not a launch character. It would be superfluous outside of that matchup

>FANG is one of the worst characters season 1
>Gets nothing but nerfs Season 2
>Oh but his V-Trigger makes him a MK character now

Id say so much for no nerfs only buffs, But Capcom decided to completely disprove that during beta.

Green hand is a cool move though.

>Gief does not need green hand, its purpose outside of sf4 was to get around fireballs.

I guess they should get rid of hurricane kick for Ryu also then

I mean, they did remove Ryu from Season 2 completely and put Dan in his place instead.

>Got mahvel for PC
>find it fun
>know infinite is coming out in a year
Will say though that it sucks they are dropping the comic aesthetics for infinite cause of the fucking marvel movies.

Dan past AE was actually kind of useful though, Ryu isn't.

Don't insult Dan

UMvC3 sucks dick too, the X factor is worse than anything in SFV and it was even nerfed from MvC3

>get touched once, die
>get 50/50ed on switch in, guess wrong, die

welcome to MvC3

What's wrong with Ryu now?

Fireball is still shit like how it was in s1, DP was nerfed to the ground, all of his normals are shit still, damage nerfed.

He has no useful tools for anything, I think this is actually the worst Ryu has ever been in any version of a 2D Street Fighter game

nerfed his damage so he has to use v-trigger to have access to damage. Plus daigo is losing so all his fanboys are going crazy and trying to make ryu look like he is z tier

Sounds fucking awful

they said mvci will not have any correlation to the cinematic universe

He's had no range on his signature normals in SFV since season 1 (cr.mk is the biggest culprit, shit had less range than st.lk for fucks sake) and every character in the game has tools to get around fireballs, meaning Ryu has no way to keep the opponent out as his normals are all of a shorter range than pretty much every dash in the game and DP does fuckall damage as an anti-air
Those are Season1 problems, which were somewhat mitigated by Ryu having Big Boy DAMAYJE

In Season 2 they've nerfed his damage almost across the board, they've nerfed the range on his normals (st.mp, which was a super important pressure tool for him, and the aforementioned st.lk), crippling his combo consistency (his crush coutner punish combos starting with st.hk whiff so much it's ridiculous now, you are almost always better off going for a non-crush counter punish instead now, losing a lot of damage)
While we're at it, his Crush Counter normals are really weak compared to the top tier, the one that nets you a combo (st.hk) whiffs on crouchers and the combo is unreliable with the st.lk range nerf, while the other (st.hp) gets you no damage at all on the punish

Also with the damage nerfs came some nonsensical things like his medium dp dealing the exact same damage and stun as the heavy dp, while heavy dp has straight up worse wakeup pressure options

They also removed invincibility on all non-ex dragon punches, making them trade with jumpin normals a lot more and also ridding Ryu of a "get off me" option to blow through frametraps

Also the terrible terrible parry why is it even in the fucking game capcom whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

The net result is his offensive tools being a LOT weaker, while his defensive and zoning tools were very weak in the first place.

Do take my criticism with a grain of salt since I'm not a professional player or anything, I haven't had a discussion on these points with anyone worth a shit yet

Is he right?

>SFV
>set ups
>5

le CC into aegis naked Mediterranean man

Zero 3 confimed best SF

Why is Ibuki so anime holy shit.

I remember hearing the opposite, at least appearance wise, cause they want to sell the movies more.

That's actually the elast arguable point of the whole thing
Every character's offense relies on meaty setups after a knockdown, and those are impossible to beat without meter and heavy commitment

>why is a high school girl ninja so anime
think before you post

I think it means more how reliant the game is upon them.

Pretty sure he meant Zero 2 famalam

Fuck outta here with your custom combo crouch cancel infinite unavoidable guard break shit

I miss SF4 Ibuki, the uniform is a bit overkill

that face though

I can't read the first column but

>SFII
>setups higher than footsies

>SF Zero
>any creativity at all with CCs
>reactions that high

>SF III setups not being higher with aegis, denjin, and akuma

>SFV having higher setup than IV

Tell me about Ibuki. Why does she wear the mask?

First is execution.