Procedurally generated games

Itt: post procedurally generated games that are actually good or great games

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Does Darkest Dungeon count?

ToME
Crypt of the NecroDancer
FTL

they used procedural generation to create the terrain in daggerfall, but the game itself doesn't procedureally generate anything

also, all the towns, dungeons, and whatnot? hand made

I don't agree that FTL is good.

It's okay though.

No, iirc it's mostly all generated apart from the cities of Daggerfall, Wayrest, and Sentinel, main quest locations, and some of the other dungeons.

All the quests apart from the main quest, and maybe a few of the faction quests and Daedra quests are taken from templates.

Daggerfall is the literal meme choice for this question

Reminder that the only people that think Daggerfall is a good game are people that never played it and neckbeards stuck in the 90s

Most of random dungeons are procedurally generated too and different every playthrough.

Char creation is a cheat mode.
If you want to turn it down to babby turn it down to babby don't exploit a mechanic and think you have put your big boy pants on.

No, cause it's a bad game

I started playing it a month ago and it is a pretty good game. I don't know why you think it's bad.

It's got bugs but every Bethesda game has bugs in it.

Got any specific points about what makes it bad?

Also the sequel is procedurally generated. But I don't know if it's good.

It's very good.

It's pretty good. It is also somewhat moddable so there is some different balance variants and additional skills.

Only a handful of things are handmade, about a dozen dungeons and dozen towns. everything else is procedural.

Yeah I'm playing it with a modpack currently and it's very hard + very rewarding + tons of stuff.
I'm playing it after playing Grim Dawn and somehow I'm liking it better.

pic unrelated i assume.

Please explain why it is bad

Which class is the best one? Alchemist with pet and summon bros was great in the first one. It would be nice if there is a class/skill based around summoning. I was thinking about to start playing the second one.

Oh man, I don't know what to tell you since with mods I have a million classes.
I like melee/close sweeps though since you get SWARMED pretty often.

>Crypt of the NecroDancer
>literally a dancing indie game
dropped

Rose tinted glasses like a motherfucker. Daggerfall almost sunk Bethesda. Daggerfall had some neat tech for the time but it was also a uniquely buggy mess. You could have an entire playthrough ruined because the game procedurally generated a quest NPC onto the second floor of a building with no stairs. It also ran, and still runs, like shit.

i thought character creation in Daggerfall was cool. the rest of the game ( the hand-full of hours that i played ) were shallow as fuck. i couldn't get into this game.

>Daggerfall
>a good game
>even a remotely decent game
Oh you, Sup Forums.

It has better combat pacing I think. Grim Dawn is a little cumbersome.

Also artstyle is nice. It is cartoony but not over the top so. Just enough to give a lighthearted feeling to the game. Just fun to play.

Dwarf Fortress

>success = gameplay
>all this implying
nu-Sup Forums is fucking underage

That depends on what style you like. I played it a long time ago so don't remember much.

-Engineer is something kind of like paladin with minions. Heavy armor, heavy hits, good defense and supporting bots. A little slow but pretty nice.

-Berserker is in your face. Then in your pants. And then in your innards eating your liver. Though you'll probably want some kind of life leach or whatever to stay alive. Mobile and killy.

-Outlander seemed like a good ranged character but a little boring.

-Embermage I don't remember.

There is also tons of mods with new classes.

Are they? I thought its just randomly generated but the same for everyone

I hate procedural generation.

Why?

Don't feel like it adds anything to most games, and is relied upon too heavily.
That's not to say some games don't benefit from it, but I still hate it.

>I WILL CRITICISE GUD GAEMS JUST FOR BEING COOLER!1!!!LMAO

Don´t fall for it m8

modded minecraft is fun as shit

you're a retard, that's what I get

I think that is because it is rarely done well, but it does have a lot of potential imo.

>Install Daggerfall
>feel like exploring dungeons
>every single random dungeon in the game is either a corridor with a room or a huge clusterfuck

Gotta admit, I love those shitty procedurally generated voxel survival games. Currently building a big underground complex in 7days to Die with minibike paths connecting a bunch of different island bunkers.

Terraria

Maybe.
I love Diablo 2 and recently played Falcom's Xanadu Next, which is an action RPG with a completely handcrafted world: it made the game so much more enjoyable. A lot of the areas were interconnected in a Castlevania/Dark Souls kind of way, all the encounters/puzzles were hand placed and made sense, even the drops are reliable and not fully random.
I had a much more interesting experience than I did with Diablo 3 which was just going through a bunch of mostly random areas with mostly random enemy placements getting mostly random loot.

I'd like to see a completely hand-crafted Diablo game, but I realize that wouldn't really be Diablo and all fans of the genre would hate it to death.

What part of "the procedurally generated terrain can irreparably fuck over a playthrough" sounds like good gameplay? Only one in ten playthroughs was viable from start to finish due to bugs and procedurally generated fuckery. And that info comes from a guy that had over 500 hours in Daggerfall and loved the game. That's not good gameplay. It nearly sank Bethesda for a reason.

Diablo 3 is one of the poorest examples of procedural generation ever though. All of the regions which aren't completely static are just square tiles put next to each other. Both 1 and 2 did it WAY better. Did you ever play those?

Or people who love exploring huge dungeons and being able to do so much dumb bullshit.

Oops. Didn't realize you said that you love Diablo 2.

I played a ton of D2 in my teenage years, I also tried playing D2 again recently and got bored of just traveling around a boring empty space killing samey mobs ignoring all the samey white loot. It reminded me of the open world games I hate so much.
It might just be the fact that I'm getting old.
I also tried playing 1 recently but the slow movement speed just aggravated me, which coincidentally was the same reason I dropped the first Torchlight.

Embermage is DAKKA.

There are a handful of skills with homing abilities, and you get a mini-teleport in the ice tree. Fire-speccing nets you a handful of skills which you'll spam in order. Infernal Collapse is best skill.

youtube.com/watch?v=O6NXDO7BSY4

Alright, fair enough. I know that procedurally generated content is severely lacking in quality compared to handcrafted content in its current state. I don't think you should hate procedural generation as a concept though, because it does have incredible potential if it were ever done well. It's just that creating an algorithm to generate content is just so much harder than creating the content yourself, but I think it does have more potential long term. Instead of spending time to create more content you can work on improving the quality of the generated content.

I found both Torchlight games to be quite boring, the pet idea was good but the combat is so fucking dull, which is a death sentence to this kind of game.

Outlander is the most interesting class to play with this build.

No mana, no hp, max range and stats related to spell damage. Put mana drain items on your guns. Use stag as familiar.

Boom. Glass canon dodge tank oneshotting ng+ enemies off screen while they do the same to you. So much fun.

>good or great games
that's completely relative to each poster.
for example, this is my favourite procedurally generated game.

Picture not related?

Definitely. I can see it being used incredibly well in some scenarios, like a forest or canyon or desert, or a maze that randomizes itself every time you enter it.

Nothing indicates it will change in the future, even if they generate better mazes procedural is still not the same thing as handcrafted.
You fell for the AI meme.

Procedural Generation provides breadth, but requires much work to give it depth.

Quality, even in handmade games, can vary quite the bit. Rather, it's a matter of uniqueness -- handmade games provide opportunity for lots of unique 'moments.' So, these will be your fully-voiced NPCs and Sixth-House emblems drawn in coins, Silver Knights camping planks, and Hispania's floating outside of Outcast homeworlds.

Although procedurally generated items might be visibly different from another, they'll be constructed from the same rules and components and you'll eventually understand that you're playing with re-arranged setpieces. But, as those rules become interchangeable and the set pieces themselves become procedurally generated, you start to narrow the gap with hand-crafted games.

Given that level designers are now codifying their craft and building dictionaries of techniques, then passing those techniques onto new level design students, most hand-made games are now following limited numbers of patterns which only serves to erode at their uniqueness.

I don't expect it to change in the future, but I think that it is possible. Call it a meme if you will.
Yes, the real challenge is to maintain the illusion. It can't just be things with different colors. The player should not realize how stuff is made. I know it is utopian, but my dream game would be completely procedurally generated.

No man's sky had a neat update the other day.
Gives me hope that the next one will focus on generation or a wildlife overhaul. It's starting to feel like a real game now.

The Borderlans guns are probably a good example of procedural generation. Though they are a small subset of the game so it was much easier to make them than say whole levels.

Well, personally, I'd say that the goal of each is to emulate the other.

Which is to say that a good hand-crafted game feels like it was never touched by human hands. A good procedural-generation game feels like it was hand-crafted.

This is absurd, of course.

>Well, personally, I'd say that the goal of each is to emulate the other.
wat
>Which is to say that a good hand-crafted game feels like it was never touched by human hands.
I don't get this part.

Daggerfall has some amazing graces but it is an extremely poor game overall and the randomly generated aspects are the very worst

This rolls back to the earlier post, specifically towards the level designer part; hand-crafted games shouldn't have the feeling that you're being pushed along some planned path, or that someone put things here for you to look at. It should feel organic, like a world that grew upwards and outwards from your screen.

Hand crafted games have a habit of closing doors after you walk through them because, you'll note, someone out there has a specific plan for you. Or, they have a feeling that the world has been waiting for you to come along in order to fix all their problems, again, because someone designed this place for you.

The whole statement is a bit of a paradox, but it reasons itself out like this in my head: when you know that you're playing a procedurally generated game, you want it to feel like a hand crafted game. If you know you're playing a hand-crafted game, the last thing that you want to see is the hand that is doing the crafting.

Ahh, I understand what you mean now. While there is truth to your explanations, I don't really agree with the conclusion.
>that someone put things here for you to look at.
Procedural generation can be better at having a more natural environment, but this can also happen with procedurally generated content.
> Or, they have a feeling that the world has been waiting for you to come along in order to fix all their problems, again, because someone designed this place for you.
I think this is really hard to compare, because there is no game that has a procedurally generated story. I feel like this could just as well happen with a procedurally generated story. It's rather a question of avoiding certain tropes that make the game less immersive.

That's fair. I think I can see where we might appear to diverge, and it's within that umbrella understanding of 'hand-crafted.'

That said, there do exist games with "procedural stories," but they certainly don't exist in the quantities and complexities that we'll see with hand-crafted stories. I mean, we don't have Morrowind's Nereverine main quest, or even the basic FM3 Follow-Your-Sister-Around-The-Globe-And-Kill-A-Lot-Of-Faceless-People-Along-The-Way sort of story in your typical 'radiant-quest' offering, but random missions do show up all the time in space sims and other sandbox-type games.

They do tend to stick to your typical "deliver this cargo here, kill these pirates there" sorts of structures, but if you let in some of Dorf-Fort's recursive storyline generation stuff, you might be able to build up a grand narrative out of a simple fetch quest. Procedurally speaking, of course.

I mean, what do hand-crafted story-lines really let you do other than go here, kill that, do context-sensitive QTE here?

Procedural generation of stories has the problem of adding all the things around the main line that are needed.

You need to have procedurally generated motivations for all actors. Plus you need to for game to show these motivations during story one way or another.

You need all the small things that tie it together. Like that something happened here, something happened there.

DF is actually probably the closest to this thing because it simulates whole world and sotry emerges from that organically. It is built from ground up instead of top down.

Yeah, there are small procedurally generated story pieces, but nothing major. Dwarf Fortress is more like one huge simulation. It doesn't intend to tell a story and doesn't have any direction. You can see small stories in there, but most of it isn't that coherent.

avorion

it's basically if x3 and eve online had babies