Game is already shorter than the other Souls games

>game is already shorter than the other Souls games
>they decided to hide 5 bosses and several huge levels behind ridiculously obscure missable secrets that 99.9% of players would never find without a guide
Fucking why?

Name these hidden bosses and areas

Which bosses? I found all bosses by myself without guides.

>several huge levels behind ridiculously obscure missable secret
It seems developers are making people use google to beat a game 100%. Or buying a guide. Both are bad and everything worth of note should be stated in the manual

To give you a reason to actually look around rather than speedrun like a sperg

Wow just like the other souls
Really blown out here

Cainhurst Castle, Upper Cathedral Ward, Nightmare Frontier, plus Moon Presence.

Prolly referring to Ebrietas, Fake Iosefka, Logarius, etc.

I know right? why the fuck doesn't this game have quest markers and a map with hints? Fuck people who defend this.

>le remember when games had secrets and hidden stuff
>dude, wtf why did they hide this from me

No, Dark Souls is a game with reasonable exploration and secrets. Bloodborne is just willfully and needlessly obscure.

bloodborne is fun

>hides entire area behind 2 walls back to back
>hides yet another by needing a doll which nobody other than the most autisic would find without guides

I think I'm growing out of my Souls phase. I played DS1 multiple times, beat it on SL 1, explored every inch, looked up lore online, then did it all again when DLC came out and that was all without even any pvp since I I played on 360 before PC version and I ain't paying for gold membership.

But after that, I beat DS2 once before the DLC came out and never even played the DLC.

I picked up DS3 and stopped playing once I got to the big ass crab in jungle, kept telling myself I'll go back but never did.

Now I own a PS4 and got BB, I only gotta beat the last 2 bosses to beat the game but don't want to skip DLC and have to replay the whole game to access, but also don't really feel like playing the DLC.


TLDR; These games suck

I'll concede Cainhurst and the Moon Prescence but you would have to actively be ignoring exploration to miss the other two.

So cool user, coming into a thread about games you don't like just to say you don't like them.

shame you burnt yourself out on the worst one

How is cainhurst hard to find? You just get to Iosefka's which is super easy to stumble into then read the ítem description.

Also to miss Upper cathedral you'd need to give up on finding a way into the cage with the huge glowing item in it in yar har ghoul

epic blog dude. try reddit

Skip the DLC on your first playthrough, just do the main story. The DLC is good but it breaks the flow of the main game pretty hard. Would have been better as a standalone expansion.

Cainhurst is acsessed exactly the same as Painted World in DaS1, except it's easier to find because the item description tells you EXACTLY where to go.

Das1
> find the secret path to Crows nest at Firelink (your given a hint that it's possible by Crestfallen, but no clues on how to do it)
> return to Undead Asylum
> return to your cell and pick up Doll
> interact with Painting in Anor Londo

Bloodborne
> enter the sort-of-hidden-but-not-really cave in Forbidden Woods
> climb the giant Ladder taking you back to Ioesfka's Clinic
> return to your bed and retrieve Cainhurst Summons
> Item description tells you to go to Hemwick to be picked up by the Carridge

how is that obscure? and how on earth is Dark Souls "reasonable secrets" and Bloodnorne not?

MAN DISCUSSING VIDEO GAMES WHAT WAS HE THINKIN

What makes the Painted World more likely to be found is that it doesn't require backtracking once you have the key. Your path through the game naturally leads you to the entrance. It's honestly pretty easy to discover returning to the Asylum, and you are likely to do it before you go to Anor Londo as that is when you spend most time at Firelink. You don't need to know what the doll does because the game brings you to the painting.

>people don't like secrets or hidden stuff in games anymore

I missed cainhurst, upper cathedral and the true chalice path on my first playthrough, but it didn't anger or disappoint me that i didn't get my pointless trophies immediately. I played through the game again for the NG+ challenge and stumbled upon those areas and was really excited again, like i was when i first started playing the game.

What's the downside to having neat little secrets/hidden areas/bosses? Surely it's not about achievements/trophies, is it?

Most of the game is optional, I bet you on your own found a few places that weren't necessary.

it's a nu-gamer thing

they hate hidden things and other stuff they perceive to be out of their control like RNG

The other part of all this is that you're not in a vacuum. The entire world is full of messages and avatar gestures from other players, it's pretty fucking hard to miss anything.

I'm like I enjoy playing the game multiple times, figuring shit out on my own and having those cool moments of discovery.

It's pretty easy to pick up all the hidden stuff through multiple playthroughs because these games have multiple endings that force you to replay them. So between that and all of the "object therefore hidden path" or "it's all thanks to verb" messages it's hard to miss anything.

>you just have to go to Iosefka's clinic
>which is already off the beaten path in a early area in the game that if you didn't go left, left, left you would have missed and never thought to come back to

but the Summons tells you where to go, the only way it's confusing is if the player decides not to read the description of the obvious Key Item they just picked up.

If you want an unreasonable "secret", i give you the DaS1 DLC
> kill the hydra
> examine the area behind it in case it was guarding anything cool
> absolutely nothing there, oh well.
> RELOAD THE GAME
> suddenly a golem with Princess Dusk trapped inside of it
> Dusk becomes friends and is now summonable from the edge of the lake where Hydra was originally
> in Duke's Archives (litterally 5 areas away) kill a random Blue Golem and get an item
> take this back to where the Gold Golem was for the cutscene to start the DLC, the area that was completly empty except for an NPC who moved to a more accessible location.

It was even worse if you killed Blue Golem first, since when you eventually kill the Hydra (and find nothing behind it) you'd have even less reason to ever check again.

having quest progression block because you're engine is too shitty to load or move NPC's in realtime is fucking unacceptable. Make secrets as cryptic as you want, but having one step be "leave and come back so we can load this NPC who was supposed to be here all along" is immersion breaking and shitty. There's some parts in Das3 that do this as well, and Adeline's quest in BB.

The problem is that BB is much shorter than DS and yet it contains far more hidden content. Pretty simple really.

FROM released official statements explaining how to access the DLC in both DaS and BB, so that shit doesn't count.

>99% of players would miss!

the trophy data says otherwise

You don't have access to the back of Iosefka's clinic until forbidden forest, what do you mean already beaten path?

>Much shorter than DaS when Das second half was pretty much incomplete.

The Cave in forbidden woods is not even hidden. If you missed it then you also missed White Church Hunter set and Beast Roar spell, as well as a sizeable chunk of a level. There's a NPC inside one of the shacks right next to the entrance to the cave, if you ignore all side paths and bee-line for the end of the level (which if your playing blind you have no way of knowing which path to take out of the villiage in the woods) then you deserve to miss stuff.

Upper Cathederal Ward is harder to find, simply because it requires dropping off a semi-hidden ledge to get the key, and requires you to remember a locked door in an optional area from 20+ hours ago.

Brain of Mensis is probably the only *true* secret, since you need to find a hidden path to drop it, then find an elevator that wasn't there originally in a place you already visited, and then do a Gesture (found in Upper Cathederal Ward) for 40 seconds in front of it.

THAT'S a secret, the others (especially Cainhurst) are optional areas with a couple steps required to get to them. Nightmare Frontier has Patches guiding you there with dialogue, item descriptions and cutscenes. I have no idea how anyone missed it.

>tfw found everything in my first playthrough because I read a guide because it was a scary game

>need supplementary material to access content
Unless it's in the manual this shit can fuck off

off the beaten path, English must not be your first language

yeah, but I played about a year after DLC released with PTD edition. I was blind and had no idea what was DLC and what wasn't (I assumed painted world was a DLC level). I completly missed Artorias on my first playthrough, I even found Ash Lake with help from notes on the ground, but looking up the steps to get to the DLC made me angry, why would I return to an empty area after reloading and expect something to appear? Twice?

this t.b.h
I had to get my mom to play the freakier parts for me because it was late at night

as long as you had fun, senpai.

Brain of Mensis was the only thing I looked up, that was kinda dumb, everything else I found through exploration or hunter notes.

The only thing I missed in my first play through was Cainhurst and Moon Presence and the brain thing.

>what are guides

Moon presence I can agree with but I'm did my first playthrough blind, did amygdala before the unseen village, found the upper Cathedral key just by exploring, and cainhurst letter straight up tells you it's in hemwick passing, I left from the hemwick lamp and eventually the cut scene came to take me there

>Nightmare Frontier has Patches guiding you there with dialogue
That requires you to enter the Forbidden Forest, then leave before completing it and backtrack to Yharnam. Why would anyone do that? Once you kill Rom, Patches disappears.

I agree that was bullshit, I don't remember the crown trilogy telling you fuck all either you just had to beat certain bosses. I liked with the old hunters I got a message saying don't go outside cathedral ward there's a monster or something so I went there right away

BB desperately need some sort of map, beginning level is easy to remember as first time player will died a lot and so you will do a lot of backtracking to familiarize the area. However as you get better and die less, it a fucking pain in the ass to know where is to where.

I felt this about all souls games, if I do an area once without dying, back tracking is kinda hard to remember what's where. Worst area in bb for me was the area before shadows of yarnham, there's so many ways to go and I did it all once

WAIT ANONS HELP. On my first playthrough and I havent looked up anything yet. just beat Romcom the Vacuous Mom and ive explored most of yarhargul.

I havent read the thread because i don't want to know EXACTLY where the secret shit i would likely miss is, but i would still like a chance at finding it without looking shit up.

Give me cryptic, unhelpful hints on how to get to the secret areas. The only place that I know I havent been to yet is there is some House Cainhurst that Kirkhammer bro told me about, but I dont know where it is.

Remember where ROM teleported you? There's a tentacle monster on the cieling that grabs you and brings you to an optional area.
You'll find a key in the unseen village in a cage, the key will say where to go
If you go back to iosefkas clinic (start of the game) you can get a letter that tells you where to go for another optional.
There's an optional last boss, Google Bloodborne umbilical cord location

Cainhurst would be fine if the invite was found in an obvious place. Reading the description and going to Hemswick would have been enough.

Upper Cathedral Ward was stupidly obscure.

Nightmare Frontier would be fine as a secret by itself if these other ones weren't so irritating.

Moon Presence is fine as it is. The regular ending shows the creature and heavily suggests that the player has missed something. It was clearly intended to be something that would take the playerbase a decent length of time to discover as a communal effort. The hints provided in game about the solution are virtually nonexistant, and if you took 1000 random players, locked them in rooms by themselves with no contact with the outside world and let them each play through the game twice, it's unlikely that anyone would discover the secret. But it's literally just one fight with a creature that the player gets to see anyway, it's not a whole extra level of the game.

In this order After beating Vicar and touched the giant beast skull -> open door with password -> Forbidden Forest -> Iosefka's Clinic for a key item -> Grand Cathedral -> Hemwick Charnel Lane for some boss fight -> after beating the boss -> look for a unique pillar in the area to trigger an event to get you to Cainhurst

three third umbilical

t b h the only thing i was spoiled on was the moon presence. I got the cainhurst invite on my own, but i read the description and didn't really care for it.

I can see the Moon Presence but the others? Just explore rather than sticking to one path. Is that really so hard? I found Cainhurst my first playthrough because I decided to, you know, play the game and look around.

RNG is literally out of anyome's control
I don't hate it, just sayin

>b-But you have to LOOK AT YOUR SUROUNDINGS or else you wont notice the big cave in plain sight that the devs didnt even attempt to hide! Its unfair!!!
What did he mean by this?

I found everything except cainhurts on my first run

Yeah but only like two of those are good so fuck it.

>I found Moon Presence on my first run
Shut up faggot.

Nah, forest is a visual trainwreck where nothing stands out. Its super easy to miss the cave if you're unlucky.

Doesnt the cainhurst summons tell you where to go? I know for a fact the tonsil stone npcs tell you exactly where to go, and the upper cathedral ward key is in plain sight and requires a minute amount of exploring to get

Not that unreasonable. It isn't hard to accidentally get 3 umbilical cords, and you may have eaten them for the insight.

It's not a nu-gamer thing. I don't have time to spend hundreds of hours on a game and most new games hardly even respect your time. I'm not full autist neet mode so my time is limited in what I can play and spend enjoying. If something has secrets in it I might as well wait until a guide comes out so I can play through the game once and see everything I can.

Git gid you fucking shitters

> "An old blood-stained summons, inviting an honored guest to the forsaken Castle Cainhurst. Rather bafflingly, it is addressed to you. Do not hesitate; the stagecoach leaves from Hemwick crossing."

>making excuses for not exploring
>not taking every path available before proceeding
>not actively looking for alternate paths in every area
Did you start playing games last year?

You can find Patches and get the tonsil stone and his dialog inside the forest

Normally I would take issue with your point here, but there is something obnoxious about the way Bloodborne EXPECTS to be played multiple times. When you get the regular ending after killing Gehrman, the doll says "and so the hunt begins again", pretty much talking to the player, which I find quite presumptuous of the player's willingness to invest more time into replaying the game.

Good thing you dont need hundreds of hours and everything but the brain if mensis can be found easily in one playthrough as long as you actually explore, which is the entire point of the game. You act like the game giving you a fork in the road with content to explore in either direction or npcs to talk to is too much for your little mind to handle and your post proves it is a nu gamer problem

I work and my time is limited too but I don't complain or resort to reading guides. Maybe you should stop making excuses?

That's not the games fault. If you don't want to play the game again, nobody is forcing you to. If you didn't find everything your first playthrough and don't plan on playing again, why complain that you didn't find it if you obviously didn't care much in the first place outside of just beating the game?

>Get the tonsil stone
>Patches tells me to go to a church shrouded in mist
>Remember going over there before Vicar Amelia because I saw a path off to the side by exploring and not really finding much except for a church shrouded in mist
>Go back there later
>Get to Nightmare Frontier

It wasn't an issue in Yharnam where I actually wanted to see more of it, but why would I take time to explore a space as boring as the forest? The devs have to meet me half way on that one. Nightmare frontier had a similar issue. Loads to explore, but it was super unrewarding exploration.

I don't even have a PS4 or Bloodborne. My point was for gaming as a whole. It's not a "nu gamer" problem, it's a barely have time or motivation to do anything I enjoy problem.

>Maybe you should stop making excuses?
Not making excuses. I enjoy playing some games with guides so I can see more of the content.

Doesnt he specifically tell you its beside the cathedral too?

It's possible. You get 2 umbilical cords by just playing the game, and you can stumble upon another one pretty easily. I got the one from arianna by accident.

>given the option to explore
>you know you can explore
>decide not to explore for some arbitrary reason
>complain about it on an imageboard

>it's a barely have time or motivation to do anything I enjoy problem.
That sounds like a you problem and nothing at all to do with gaming.

You are making excuses for not having things handed to you on a platter

I'm not sure, I played the game a lot when it first came out but I haven't played it much outside of when the DLC came out. I just knew what he was talking about because I already went there beforehand.

ITT: OP has ADHD and blames the game for not spoonfeeding

I fail to see how thats a problem, it just means the game will take longer to beat and wont go stale fast because you beat it in a week like neets do

>decide not to explore for some arbitrary reason

Nothing arbitrary about the area being boring as shit, indeed its a very defensible complaint.

Souls games are terrible to stop playing and pick up later. You forget the timings, what you were doing, and it takes a bit to get back on the wagon.

It's not though. I didn't particularly like some areas but I still explored them to find things.

>Nightmare Frontier
>Part of the forest with a lot of snakes
>The swamp in Demon's Souls or the lower part of Tower of Latria
I didn't really like these areas but I explored them anyways. The only person stopping you from exploring is yourself.

Nightmare Frontier is really easy to wander into by accident once you get to the Lecture Building,
I dodn't even know aboutthe tonsol stone first playthrough.

This is a really, really fucking dumb argument. You're absolutely correct, the only thing stopping me from exploring them is my total lack of desire to explore them, in the same way the only thing stopping me from doing anything I don't like is the fact I won't enjoy doing it. Its the game's job to make me want to play it. Bloodborne fails to make me want to fully play through those areas. This is the game's fault.

to make stupid people who don't read or pay attention feel frustrated and alienated

Again, no. Dark Souls had secrets that required exploration and they were fine. In addition, Dark Souls lent itself far more to exploration that Bloodborne does. The slower pace of the gameplay and lack of urgency in the story made the player feel more like taking their time and not hurrying, whereas Bloodborne (especially in the second half of the game which is when the secrets are generally accessed) pulls the player along much more strongly. Who the fuck wants to go back to Yharnam once they hit Yahar'Gul? That is the most exciting point of the game, and requiring the player to break that immersion to backtrack and then go to an unrelated secret area is dumb.

>cainhurst castle
read item description
>upper cathedral ward
read item description
>nightmare frontier
there are two sets of huge glowing doors in the lecture building, its not hard to miss.
>moon presence
ill give you that one, but there are hints that you should consume three cords to activate, and two ways to get the cords are rather obscure

>Its the game's job to make me want to play it. Bloodborne fails to make me want to fully play through those areas. This is the game's fault.
Whoa there, now THIS is a dumb statement. You have the option of buying the game. You have the option of playing the game. The devs made a game they wanted to make. They can't read minds and they can't make a game that specifically caters to you or everyone for that matter. If you chose to buy the game, the amount of enjoyment entirely comes from you. If you don't enjoy it, that's on you. Different people enjoy different things. I personally enjoyed Bloodborne and explored each area looking for every nook in cranny. Not everyone is going to do that because not everyone wants to do that. Nobody is forcing you to do it and nobody is telling you that you have to do it. There's games I play that I just complete and I'm done with it without finding everything and I'm okay with that because I didn't enjoy it enough to do so. You're complaining about something really specific to yourself.

I found everything except Ebrietas on my first run.

You're right user, games can't be good or bad, they're just made for different kinds of people.

But seriously, fuck off, the forest is boring as shit, which stands out all the more because most other areas are great.You can't fault a player for preferring to spend their time in the clearly better parts of the game.

Maybe you should actually explore and stop being retarded. Also read item descriptions. I found all that shit my first playthrough of bloodborne.

>he isn't hardwired to explore early areas later on to see what he's missed or can now unlock

And? This is just going back to what I said previously.

>decide not to explore for some arbitrary reason
The fault IS entirely on you if you don't want to explore. I agree with you, the forest isn't enjoyable in the slightest but that didn't stop me from looking around.

There's nothing fucking arbitrary about an area being shit.

Shit area or not, it'd still your fault if you missed something because you chose not to explore. The forest wasn't a good area, but it wasn't offensively bad like Lost Izalith or something.

>ridiculously obscure missable secrets that 99.9% of players would never find without a guide
But that's wrong you mongoloid. If you pay attention and explore the game you can find everything easily on your own. And if you just strolling around while watching sitcoms on your laptop then why in the fuck are you playing bloodborne at all?

Well alright, Ebrietas is kinda hidden.

being able to return to the Undead Asylum is completely obtuse, not because it's far-fetched to be able to go back to the tutorial area, not because of the stupid wait time while curling up, not because of where you have to jump off of the elevator, but because you have to wander off jumping around elevations that you would have NO BUSINESS going through in 99% of the game, SPECIALLY if you played through most of the game by then, the entire fucking game teaches you not to fuck with any sort of steep terrain, and this and Anor Londo broken window are the only exception where the game goes "yeah, well this time it won't make you slide off of a 20 degrees elevation in the speed of light, this time it's fine and in fact, the only way to proceed"

and yes, obviously, I mad

Getting to the bird's nest and the flying buttresses in Anor Londo are fucking inexcusably bad game design.

If you hug the right while in basically any video game that's even sort of linear, you will never miss a thing.

I know I sort of found Nightmare Frontier on accident. I found tonsil stone normally, but I dodged the lesser amygdala in the church because when I was previously grabbed Cathedral Ward I just died.

I only found it because I wasn't paying attention and was sort of farting around when I got grabbed by the the less Amygdala.