Been playing this game. I enjoy it a lot, but I've had a question about it for some time now.
Why is it so hard to make the classes unique? They have unique names, armor, and their moves look unique, but they all play so similarly within each role archetype.
I've never played XI, but when looking at its twenty something jobs I would have a hard time believing they are as similar to each other as the ones here are.
It just seems like there is no creative design space with this game's engine, and I'm not really sure why. Does everyone class need to be constant ability spam? The classes definitely have quantity over quality when it comes to their abilities and all it does is make them blend more together.
And the cross skill system is awful. It just further adds to the problem. Was there really no creative way to differentiate each healer's approach to DPS? Having to grab Cleric Stance and Swiftcast on all healers is so boring. It's the same with actual DPS. Being forced to level certain classes (like being NIN but having to level up Lancer for a single ability) that you have no interest in all to add ANOTHER generic powerup to your long list of moves is so uninteresting.
Most classes use the same basic mechanic of combo spam after applying a dot and self buff. You mix in your non global cooldown moves (regardless of what they do) to get more damage and abilities in in a short period of time.
It's making me hard to be excited for Samurai and Red Mage when I know it will be the exact same stuff over and over again, just a little different looking. It doesn't help that it seems like this game will never try to branch out and create hybrid classes. It is so rigid in its design structure that not even Red Mage can be anything more than a DPS.
Elijah Walker
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Ayden Garcia
People have to have tons of abilities to constantly click so they don't realize the whole 2.5sec gcd.
James Long
There's only so many ways to make a geme about ground circle markers and tether lines interesting. Really is a shame.
Everything in XIV needs to play in a set way because all dungeons and bosses need to be beatable by the 1/1/2 team layout that is used for every instance. You won't get bosses who only take magic damage or need to be tanked with evasion or something.
Ian Morris
>and I'm not really sure why Because they are lazy and can get away with it. literally the only reason
Oh also, this game panders to retards so everything has to be basic.
Christian Richardson
Swiftcast and cleric stance are the only thing making healers interesting.
I'd uninstall if I had to stand/run around for 3 GCDs between every heal or just keep overhealing like a braindamaged mongoloid.
Charles Cooper
Khloe been putting out for me. 2 lines this week and last week. Got minions 5 times now.
Austin Sanders
What a whore.
Daniel Howard
But a cute whore so it's ok.
James Harris
XIV is boring because equipment is a straight line progression. The game sets each job with only job specific gear at level cap that just gets a bigger number each upgrade.
The most you get to customize is with materia and that's really just max out main stat then mana/health
Luke Jenkins
The alternative design is to make different encounters require different equipment, which is essentially the same thing, except the gear grind is compounded because the "optimal" loadout varies on an encounter-by-encounter basis. Real choice in a game based around scripted fights is impossible.
Sebastian Hughes
Not even then. You can't meld main stat. Just sub stats/health.
Ryan Wood
Would Ishtar make a good Hildibrand exclusive primal?
Andrew Ortiz
pros of following the holy trinity: arguably great balance despite having many different classes
cons of following the holy trinity: arguably little difference between classes despite having so many of them
Justin Cooper
FFXIV doesn't use holy trinity.
It has DPS
It has DPS that takes the threat It has DPS that keep people alive And it has also DPS
Anthony Price
>When you out DPS the entire leveling roulette as WHM
Lincoln Lee
The sooner you realize this in FFXIV, the better.
Henry Myers
What's the alternative? Healing and tanking are a binary outcome. Either you survive the hit/hold the boss, or you die and wipe the run. Either you keep the group alive, or they die and wipe the run. DPS is the only metric that allows for varying performance levels. If healers and tanks didn't DPS, what would make a great tank/healer better than a passable one?
Juan Lopez
the fault of game design valuing speedkills above all else
Julian Johnson
Stormblood will fix game please preorder now
Austin Jones
>Does everyone class need to be constant ability spam?
As opposed to what? Standing around half the time?
Joseph Taylor
>whms >dpsing What game are you playing, that hasnt happened since yoshi gave all the shitters an excuse to get carried
Levi Wood
>plays palace of the dead >nobody is using potions >players are wiping to opening chests >filthy level 30 gear past floor 51 >stands in behemoths tornados and complains about not being healed
I hate playing that shit but leveling is so fast. It feels like I'm a pre school teacher trying to take the kids across the street without them waking on a landmine.
Andrew Watson
I haven't played in two months. What happened? I could out DPS the leveling parties by throwing rocks with one button. Did they change something?
Alexander Mitchell
>play as scholar
sometimes, you're the teacher sometimes, you're the student
Nathan Long
Forgot to mention some more things that bother me.
- Almost all the JRPG elements are gone. I'm not sure how common this is in MMOs, but why do ailments barely matter? They are all cured with the same basic recovery spell. Why don't elements matter? No matter what it looks like visually, it's all the same and weaknesses and strengths aren't a thing.
That makes preparing for an area a lot more boring.
- Why is Protect so stupid? They really couldn't think of anything cooler than a global defense buff that lasts half an hour? Imagine how many more things Supports/Healers could do if things like Protect weren't a thing
Utilizing more powerful abilities that have longer cooldowns? Channels? Moves with high startup for major payoff? A variety of buffs and debuffs that aren't on one minute cooldowns? It's silly how every class needs to weave constant damage abilities every 2.5 seconds at least. It's like a RPG for people with ADHD
Asher Edwards
It's just generic Sup Forums bitching about everything. Good WHMs still DPS, bad ones don't.
Tyler Allen
>Yoshi says he doesn't like cleric stance and healers should prioritize healing >every whiny entitled healer uses that as an excuse to just fucking stand there and maybe cast cure every 20 seconds and say the devs told them thats how the game should be played >run times increase I play sch and nin around a 50/50 ratio and this shit is infuriating, I can't imagine just standing there letting the fairy do everything without contributing damage of my own
Carson Williams
I didn't say it was a bad thing. I'm SCH mostly.
If you remove DPSing from healers the job will be like fishing ie. look at screen every 3-15 seconds depending on the tank.
If you make healing mandatory on every GCD, in spam healing the only variable is your stats. If you mix shielding and other miscellanous healer stuff in that mix be prepared for average healers wiping shit like leveling roulette on a daily basis.
David Ortiz
What else do they expect healers to do with how much downtime they give you in fights? I can't stand leveling DPS outside of palace of the dead because of no DPS healers making shit runs.
Hell the SCH fairy can Solo heal some of the low level roulette dungeons. I've had friends go afk in pirate dungeon with /follow.
Ian Parker
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Jonathan Hernandez
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Joseph Jackson
especially as SCH it's just fucking boring if you don't DPS sure, there are some moments where the damage picks up and you have to leave cleric stance, but other than that shit would just be insanely boring since the fairy is enough about 90% of the time
Brayden Watson
why do you guys care so much about healers dps'ing? yes, good healers will do it and bad ones will try to justify not doing it, so is this your first mmo or something lol
Camden Jackson
>Why don't elements matter? Because it adds no real gameplay. You stack Fire damage on the boss that's weak to Fire, and that's it. This isn't like a single player game where a boss is a puzzle you have to solve. People run these things multiple times a week, they know what you have to do.
John Cooper
Astrologian would be the most hardcore job bar none if you made healing balls to the wall while keeping all the kit.
Charles Taylor
roughly increases the completion time of a dungeon by 1.5x if the healer does not DPS during downtime
Kayden Scott
>why do you guys care about people ignoring half their toolkit and making runs take longer than they need to because they're lazy pieces of shit lol
Carson Stewart
Because compared to most other mmos where healers damage is roughly 20-30% of a DPS, healers can hit 80% of a DPS during AoE pulls and 50-60% on bosses.
Not DPSing on a healer is super noticable in this game, same goes for shitty tanks that do 300 dps
Benjamin Harris
Because Yoshi has talked about removing cleric stance.
Henry Jackson
I would dig it if they made her friendly to her Babylonian lore. Squex fucks up the Primals presentation half the time (Sophia's shtick being balance instead of transcendence irritated me, Zurvan having Tyrfing as move of all things, etc.). I guess I can give ones like Shiva being an ice lady a pass as "FF Tradition." Maybe I'm spoiled by SMT.
Elijah Butler
He said at EU Fanfest that he was going to keep it though
Caleb Hill
>ive never experienced someone being bad in a mmo before so it is your first mmo
Adam Moore
>Why is it so hard to make the classes unique? Because that is how the game is designed. Everything works based on how parties are organized. If a specific content is designed for a light party (1 tank, 1 healer, 2 DPS), every possible combination of these roles must be able to clear said content with the required equipment. Because of this, both content, gear and jobs need to be designed with a basic archetype for each role in mind. As a simple example, tanks will always have a 1-2-3 enmity combo and a similar set of defensive cooldowns, healers will always have the set of single target and group healing spells, and DPS must be able to deal the a certain level of damage with their own mechanics without demanding near-perfect precision (for non-savage content). That is also the reason why things like elemental resists and non-damage secondary stats are so useless. Same works for gear and their basic stats. There is a lot more room for creativity when creating new DPS jobs, but they still suffer due to other limitations of this formula, like how the combat/GCD works (main skill > off skill(s) > main skill, etc), and how much can a job interact with others without making said interaction required for content (since other jobs don't have such feature). Thankfully cross-class shit is being reworked. Right now it is the perfect example of how a great idea can be horribly executed.
I'm still a bit hyped for Red Mage, though. It won't be like the other games (none of the jobs in XIV are, anyway), but it may be something actually new for XIV, being a melee and ranged hybrid. It will probably be BLM using a sword instead of blizzard (can't wait for the new blizzard wizards 2.0 in DF), but maybe they will add something more to it (hopefully not positional shit).
Jaxon Morales
Not sure if you played XIV but the healers have nice utility attacks and can easily out DPS groups of trash mobs with their AoE's. WHM has one of the best stuns in the game for groups while SCH has amazing group debuffs.
They even give scholar a pet with infinite mana and healing spells that only goes away when it dies. That bastard can Solo heal low level dungeons.
Lucas Jenkins
Tyrfing was one of Zurvan's attacks in FF6, WoWfugee.
Mason Diaz
And it's also a Germanic sword which has nothing to do with Zoroastriansim. FF6 was the only SNES one I didn't play. Sorry, mang.
Charles Ward
>SCH particle effect isn't a fairy, just some shitty wings
I got cucked, the SMN is infinitely better. Thanks Yoshi
Mason Morris
It's glasses
Adam Perez
>need to be tanked with evasion or something. That would be reasonably doable if they actually made enemy accuracy matter aside from occasionally letting you buff your own evasion with Featherfoot
But I think most people would complain it's too RNG when you fail to dodge basic attacks six times in a row and die
Jason Morales
I meant on the anima, I just finished the umbrite step
Adrian Gray
Yeah, but Zurvan wasn't called Zurvan in FF6 outside of concept art. He was just called Demon.
Sophia also has balance as her concept because of her connection in the lore with the goddess Azeyma.
Nolan Bennett
>remove only thing that makes healer interesting >Adventurer in Need (Healer) everywhere >WOW WHY DOESN'T ANYONE WANT TO HEAL ANYMORE?
Joseph Rogers
Oh, The final SMN relic is wings too though
Easton Cook
Have more option select in gear wouldn't make the game more enjoyable overall, like says, it'd be a bad crutch
Sebastian Morgan
Not sure what point you're trying to make, if any.
Luke Long
Which npc would you take on a date if they add that favour system for others? Yugiri for me, I wanna rub her scales
Ian Rogers
point is to stop sperging over things you cant change
Zachary Walker
Hilda, the WoL needs little 1/4 elf and 3/4 hyur bastards running around
Zachary Campbell
Good players laughing at / criticising bad players =/= Sperging
Colton Gonzalez
I doubt they'll ever add it for MSQ NPCs since it then limits what they can do with them story wise.
You don't even get to date Zhloe, the final cutscene is just her telling you that Khloe is her sister, like we didn't already know.
Cooper Miller
It really is.
Kevin Price
uhh lol
Sebastian Cruz
t. bad player sperging that he's being laughed at
Cooper Watson
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Mason Edwards
lol
Oliver Morgan
Sure, buddy, whatever makes you feel better.
Christopher Watson
exterminate meme roes
Charles Ortiz
>no u
alright, you win this internet argument.
Gabriel Lewis
>tfw melee SCH
Landon Nguyen
>running up to something and whacking it in the face with your big book How smn and sch should be played.
John Martin
in what universe is spamming Stone """"""""interesting"""""""" ?
the only thing that's remotely fun is Holy and that has limited utility
Ryan Wilson
Kan-E-Senna. I joined the Twin Adders for her but we don't even get to see her much.
Anthony Ross
You guys sound triggered
Camden Williams
He's been corrupted by proximity to cats.
Adam Gonzalez
Papalymo ;_;
Samuel Harris
>exterminate roes
ftfy
Nolan Gutierrez
That's why I suggested to make her Hildibrand exclusive considering her history with Gilgamesh and Enkidu
Benjamin Parker
When are kittens going to be playable?
Carson Flores
Jobs being unique would be too unbalanced.
Please pre-order Stormblood and continue supporting FINAL FANTASY XIV.
Caleb Ward
>pincer attack with your book and your egi
Leo Fisher
Never, you get halfbreeds instead, look forward to it. >Sun/Moon cats with slitted eyes and fangs >Elezen/midlander with pointed ears but normal proportions and neck >Roe/Highlander with Roes height and physique but without the ridiculous width
Jaxson Rodriguez
>>Roe/Highlander with Roes height and physique but white Fixed. I see you haven't seen the latest screenshot of the samurai dude.
Owen Jackson
Poor Roe players, never get a meaningful npc representation. I never really liked how wide and top heavy they looked. Some armor made them look like a walking sofa.
Dominic Perry
that's because they are walking sofas
roes are huge
Caleb Foster
Not even Holy is fun anymore.
Roes are the best mounts
Nolan Roberts
>You don't even get to date Zhloe But that is wrong.
Carter Wright
shopped image
Thomas White
>ywn marry Zhloe >ywn be the adopted papa to a bunch of Miq'items Why live.
Carter Thomas
The entire conjurer story is like that too >Healing is boring, you want to spam stone dont you
Hudson Johnson
>ywn marry Khloe >ywn crush loli miq'itten pussy on the reg
Eli Davis
This is the kind of player that yoshida panders to
no wonder the game is so easy and boring now
Elijah Stewart
Fuck off to degenerates
Grayson King
It's been that way since 2.1 >require Titan HM for relic quest >he kicks the shit out of every single casual >make the next step entirely FATEs >first boss of Pharos Sirius fucking slaughters casuals >nerf the entire dungeon
John Price
>still upset so he has to respond again 40 minutes later im not even the person youre complaining about, i dps as a healer but i also dont have a meltdown when i see another healer being worthless and just standing there
Oliver Walker
>ded thred
Asher James
I hope that YoshiP wasn't joking about "taking NPCs to dates in Gold Saucer" during the korean live letter (or that this isn't something lost in the korean>japanese>english translation). Then again, he also promised Squadrons in dungeons and all we got was Ventures with company currency.
Ayden Nelson
>he didn't get the date quest
Andrew Reyes
Nothing to talk about til tuesday night, then a couple weeks of whatever the story is, add or subtract time depending on if it's good or not, then almost 90 days of nothing til stormblood