Okay, Sup Forums might not be the best place to ask this but here I go.
I'm supposed to give a speech about whether or not children age 7 and under should be allowed to own M rated games. I'm arguing against it, and I would like to hear some more opinions on this topic.
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Just look at what CoD does to 7 year olds.
Are you arguing that children should be allowed to own M Rated Games or that children should not be allowed to own M Rated Games?
I don't mind them playing M rated games, but prevent them from playing online.
Right. I was going to mention online voice chat game in particular
Should NOT. I think It's alright for most teenagers, and maybe 10 year olds, but 7 and under is too young.
I used to be devil's advocate all the time in college. I cannot think of anything you could argue as to why children should be allowed to play M rated games.
I agree with you. Kids should be protected, especially in this time where porn and degenerate music videos are everywhere. This is of course all a jewish scheme to try and convert your children into mixracing whores so they can finally destroy civilisation as white people created it. Do not expose children to adult shit.
Children should be allowed too but you're a god awful parent if you let yours buy one
The answer is it's up to the parents. Same with R rated movies
Parents are largely ignorant about games though. To them GTAV is the game where you run over people and shoot the police, not the game where you hook a car battery up to a person's genitals to torture them or watch your wife have sex with another man.
It's why the Hot Coffee thing was such a commotion. It was already a 17+ rated game, but somehow a simulated sex act mini-game was the thing that a lot of people freaked out about.
There are themes in some M games that a young kid would not even comprehend. As an example, I just played Nier:A. The themes presented would be completely lost on someone without a developed sense of understanding. It isn't so much a right or wrong argument, it is the fact that a child trying to get enjoyment out of a game like that would be futile and pointless, and these rating systems can serve as a guide to parents in that regard, as well
Kids born in 2010 means the parents were probably born the early 80s. Those parents know about game ratings
That's an interesting point. I haven't played Nier:A but I know there's a scene where we see those small robots trying to have sex. A lot of kids probably wouldn't understand the meaning behind that and just think it's weird or silly.
I'd be interested to see what a child would make of Catherine.
7 year olds don't own fuck all you retard, their parents do. Which is what the argument comes down to, if a parent wants he/she should have the liberty to buy their kids M rated games without some government/company moral authority telling them otherwise.
Same goes for all media.
>Same goes for all media
How far is your shitty logic going to go?
1) anyone arguing this on either side is an idiot
2) most mature games are too complex mechanically for a seven year old to trog through to get to the juicy stuff.
What? If a parent wants to show their kid an 18+ horror movie a) nobody can stop him to begin with, b) it's his call.
As long as it doesn't go into abuse territory it's the right of the parent to educate or fuck up his kid for better or worse.
Sounds like a bunch of pussy pampering for kids. It is a fucking video game.
>or fuck up his kid
This is called abuse.
Have you taken the time to look up legitimate sources that support the position that you are arguing for?
>7 year olds don't own fuck all you retard, their parents do.
By "own" I essentially meant having regular access to. There's a pretty big difference between Little Billy going to his uncle's house once every 3 months to play GTAV for an hour or two, and having it in his house to play whenever he wants.
This. I plan on letting my children play certain mature titles but then explaining them as to why it's bad and it's fiction.
Parents are only to blame when they don't explain mature situations to children and wonder why little Timmy is fucked in the head because he did experiments of violence he saw in media
Going to start doing that tomorrow.
In the 80s letting your kid play Magic the Gathering was called abuse because it made him a satanist. If a kid sees a scary movie when he/she is little it might scar him or he might look back on it as a fond childhood memory.
The line between bad parenting and abuse never was and never will be clear.
children under 7 should definetely not be able to play games rated m
those gun games psychologically imprint the need to kill into our youth
I've been watching R-rated movies, including horror flicks since I was like 5, and it never had any ill effect on me, because my parents actually took the time to teach me that what I saw on TV or in a theater was bullshit, and not to try to do any of it. I've never hurt anybody, I'm not scarred by it, I have never understood what the big issue was supposed to be.
I think rather than an age rating system, we need a 'how shitty at parenting are your parents' rating.
Define a legitimate source for a subjective point of view, without appeals to authority.
>In the 80s
Strawman. It doesn't matter what the retarded biblehumpers tried to call abuse. Kids are easily imprinted upon. Even if you explain shit to kids, it's going to effect them psychologically. Kids minds are very different to an adult's. They're very malleable. Show them a horror movie, remind them it isn't real, it's just fiction, and they can still be fucked up for weeks terrified of the wind blowing at their window at night.
user, it's not that you as a kid were so malleable that that scary movie made you jump at everything that went bump in the night.
It's that you were raised a pussy.
I don't even think I was allowed to watch M rated movies as a 7 year old (Australian equivalent of PG13 I think).
Children are easily influenced by media. As a child I always used to emulate things I saw in power rangers or dragon ball by fighting with my friends.
I don't think children should be exposed to violent themes at such a young age. I don't really see what the problem with a kid seeing a sex scene is though. Sex is a fairly normal part of life that is only given significance by our culture.
>That you were raised a pussy
I never had any bullies, because I used to fight them. I was never raised a pussy. I was also raised to think logically and not be a retard. Something that you seem to be lacking.
That user is correct about kids having malleable brains though. Mental plasticity is a well documented phenomenon. Children are much more likely to easily form new memories or learn new things. As such, it's best to be slightly cautious as to what we expose them to.
>In the 80s letting your kid play Magic the Gathering
I was unaware 1989 > 1993.
Not that user but published academic studies regarding the effects of media on childhood development would be acceptable sources to cite
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
I don't know if you have access to the website, but if you do, have "fun" (or as much fun as you'll have trawling through papers). Your speech will have much more support from your peers and professor/teacher if the source came from an academic journal rather than the hearsay from a mongolian throatsinging board. Stories of fictional account and all.
Shouldn't you have asked /sci/ this query?
These guys have the right idea. It's all about talking about the content; it's about education. It always is, always was, and always will be. That's why I find it sad when people freak out about teaching kids about sex. If they're old enough to ask, they're old enough to know. That way they will be safer, in all regards.
1. Find a study with results that suggest that exposing children to adult oriented media has some kind of negative effect
2. Find another study that suggests that interactive mediums have more of an effect on childhood development than non-interactive mediums
Very easy argument to write
I agree that in the long-term it's not a huge, life changing problem. In the short term however? That's another issue.
This is just personal experience, and maybe it was different for other people, but when I was around 10 I saw a lot R-rated movies, and I got into a lot of fights and called people slurs without really understanding what they meant (I thought the word nigger was just another random insult like asshole or bastard). I understand now that I was pretty shitty and dumb, but back then I didn't see any real problem.
>Children are easily influenced by media. As a child I always used to emulate things I saw in power rangers or dragon ball by fighting with my friends.
Basically this.
Thank you.
Prove your claims then user, prove that kids exposed to adult material at a young age end up fundamentally fucked up because that is at the heart of this whole debate.
Anecdotally but me my and my friends played Wolfenstein 3D and watched Demonic Toys when we were 7 and the result was no more abnormal than other people. It depends on the kid and the parent is the bottom line but even if it didn't do you think that child protective services have to be called on retarded parents that buy their 6yo kid GTA or DOOM? Do you think this level of intervention is called for?
>Prove that kids exposed to adult material at a young age end up fundamentally fucked up
No, fuck you. First of all you're putting words and claims into my post that literally aren't there. I'm not reading the rest of your post for this reason only.
If that isn't your claim then what the fuck are you arguing for? If there aren't permanent consequences then why does it matter and why did you imply it can fall under the banner of "abuse"?
>Online
Definetly not. It ruins the game for everyone
>SP games
Sure as long as the parents teach their kids right.
>Wolfenstein 3D and watched Demonic Toys
That's another thing I want to bring up. M rated games back then are really different from M rated games right now. If PS1 Resident Evil and MGS1 were released right now it would probably get a T rating.
sure is a good thing there's no biblethumpers falling for the schemes of the merchants
Seems like it was different for you because, like I said in my post, you just weren't parented correctly.
That's not an insult, or even a jab at your parents, because I think a lot of people end up as parents before they're ready. But had you been taught simple guidelines, and been interacted with on a better level by them, you would have known better.
Not that guy, and I certainly wouldn't consider exposing kids to most material as "abuse", but I agree with him to an extent. If the exposure to mature content has the potential for negative effects in the short term, it also has the potential for negative effects in the long term. If a child is getting into fights or having nightmares as a result of some video game, they could end up performing worse at school or suffering from some variety of depression. Of course, this won't happen to every child who accidentally watches Saw or something. In the end, parents have to know their own children and allow them to consume media correspondingly. If your kid seems like they would be easily influenced or disturbed by violent content, don't show it to them. Better off not taking the risk if you're unsure. You don't lose anything by NOT showing your 7 year old some violent film/game etc.
They don't need to be protected, they need to be TAUGHT.
This sickly culture of child overprotection that started really booming in the late 80's is one of the reasons we have an entire generation of useless, whiny, oversensitive faggots.
Gonna have to disagree with you there user. Everyone is different and OP may have acted the same way regardless of how his parents approached the situation. We just simply don't know enough about it.
>M rated games back then are really different from M rated games right now
Well the cultural context was really different as well. Hell I was scared shitless of Nemesis from RE3 for weeks after I first saw my brother play the game but if you put an average kid of the same age to play or see the same game now he would laugh it off because it looks goofy.
Kids and people in general are more desensitized these days and the internet plays a big part in that.
I'd say no but my evidence would be my parents giving me unrestricted internet and gaming access since I was a child and how fucked up I turned out
>If your kid seems like they would be easily influenced or disturbed by violent content, don't show it to them.
That is all I am arguing for, that its the responsibility and choice of the parent to make that choice (again as long as it doesn't cross over into abuse territory like making your kid watch something he/she doesn't want) and not some government agency or third party.
I played mature rated games at 7 and now i'm a Sup Forums user.
Well, if his parents would have been involved enough to tell him that certain shit is fucked up to say, and WHY, instead of just "don't cuss" or whatever stupid cop-out bullshit they did teach him (if anything) then he would have known, wouldn't he?
You were destined for failure either way.
You might be accused of some strawmanship, but I think there's a case to be made, comparing certain mature titles to porn, explicit music, etc.
Video games are the only interactive entertainment, but people who play them are certainly -consuming- the entertainment. Maybe to put things into perspective, you should ask the question, "How much is too much?" Would you let your 7 year-old watch porn? It's different, but M-rated titles fall somewhere between Super Mario World and porn. Not to mention, some games are very borderline pornographic. You could also ask if someone would let their children watch real snuff videos. Obviously no real person is dying in video games, but what about the ones that depict death and torture in extreme detail? You have to find where the line separates the fiction from reality and see how far apart they are, as a consumer.
Well considering my parents attitude towards me probably, but I'd say being on Sup Forums and playing hentai games since I was 10 probably had a lot to do with it too
>Between SMW and Porn
RDR stood out to me, because it's an M rated game that has explicit fucking in it. Just shy of porn since I don't remember the penetration being shown.
My parents told me not to get into fights, but I didn't listen. Some kids just don't want to listen to their parents. Also I didn't swear in front of them, just a school with other kids.
You aren't wrong, calls to emotion and hyperbole in the vain of "WOULD YOU WANT YOUR 6 YO DAUGHTER TO WATCH PORN? BECAUSE LETS NOT KID OURSELFS, THIS IS CLOSE TO THE SAME THING!" work greatly in the realm of constructed debate events I can say from personal experience.
Of course shit like this is the antithesis of proper discussion but if your goal is to win they sure do help a ton because logic and facts don't do it for most people sadly.
>calls to emotion
Well, I mainly meant that someone fresh out of an argumentation or English class might jump out of the woodwork to screech "LOGICAL FALLACY!! FALLACIOUS APPEAL TO EMOTION!! STRAWMAN!" the instant OP brings porn into the matter. I think it can be a good question to explore because it's simply about boundaries. Don't make porn/snuff films/gangster rap out to be equal with M-rated video games. Just draw some comparisons and ask "What really makes them so different, and why is one okay, but the other isn't?"
Another thing OP might want to look into discussing RATHER than M-rated vs. E-rated video games is M-rated video games versus having your child simply do something more constructive. There's nothing inherently wrong with most video games, stepping back from arguments about morality, but what KIND of parents let their kids play, watch or listen to whatever they want? Are they simply not involved in their childrens' lives?