What went wrong?

>Objectively the worst offense hero in the game right now
>Fan the hammer is fucking useless
>Combat roll moves you by one inch.
>Flashbang is unforgiving, doesn't stop momentum.
>His ult is the worst in the game, period.
What's his job anyway? Is it killing tanks? No, that would be Reaper's job. Is it killing squishies? Maybe, but since his flashbang doesn't interrupt movement, good luck killing that Tracer with it. It can't be killing Pharas either, because Widowmaker is better at it.
Why does McCree suck so much? What went wrong?

He's outclassed in every way by 76.

fan should get a damage buff because its pretty much useless except if it had a buff it could be used against tanks

>Launch day McCree was the most fun hero in the game to play
>Gets nerfed into the ground because shitters don't know how to counter him

When's it going to be high noon again?

He's got the worst kit in the game
>Ult that gets least kills on average
>Flashbang that is useless against heroes it's supposed to counter
>Roll barely goes any distance at all
>Outclassed in damage by 76

Did you play the game at launch? That's the whole reason they nerfed it's damage in the first place.
>Flash bang
>Fan point blank
>He just did full damage (420)
>Rolls into you
>He's now reloaded
>Does Fan again
>Another 420 damage
>You're now dead
>Rinse Repeat

About the only thing that could survive was a Zarya and even then he could just wait out the bubble

>ult is the worst
>not widows

widows ult is so fucking redundant.

good comms often render it unnecessary
like 3 other characters have a similar enough effect on not ult
it doesn't even guarantee her kills

It seriously feels like Blizzard wanted to make a cowboy character with a revolver but couldn't think of any good abilities so they just tacked on a few unrelated ones that have no synergy.
Blizzard likes to buff by tweaking numbers and cooldowns but I actually think McCree needs a Symmetra-style rework. At the VERY least his ult needs to be overhauled, it's basically "press Q to either die instantly or maybe kill someone you could have gotten easily anyway"

Fan was absurd at launch, but in typical Blizzard fashion, they just made it absolutely fucking useless instead of actually putting effort into balancing it. The bare minimum it should be expected to do is consistently kill a stunned squishy.

Question is, what can they really do with him?

Fan the hammer was considered too good, so they nerfed that and then subsequently decreased his dropoff. Then he's basically Widowmaker Jr. and everyone raised hell again, so they undid that and now we basically just have a McCree that's worse in every way than he was at launch.

Launch sucked because every game was two McCrees going around staggering their flashes and doublefanning everyone. One-hero limit and the extra spread would've balanced McCree by themselves. At most he should've just gotten a cooldown on fan.

Make his flashbang interrupt movement, so he can actually kill Tracer and Genji. Buff fan the hammer slightly.
There, this is enough.

In an ideal world, a character without its niche wouldn't exist at all. In a game like this the best possible balance state is where every character has at least one or two things it does better than every other character in the game. McCree is one of those characters that doesn't have this, along with Junkrat and maybe Reaper. To be completely honest nerfing S76 would be an indirect buff to the other DPS because he's outclassed them in every way for MONTHS.

make flash a real flashbang like in cs instead of a stupid 1 foot stun

Reaper has a nice, though, he's a tankbuster. The problem is, he's a tankbuster who can't bust anyone except for Reinhardt.

McCree is fine. His niche is to kill flankers and area denial, which he does very well. The problem now is he was so strong before that people think that there's something wrong when he isn't single-handedly killing everyone on the other team. If people aren't playing flankers for him to kill, that is a whole other problem that they may need to address.

The LAST thing this game need is a flashing bright light that you can use every 10 seconds.

>Flanker killer
>Is actually horrible at killing flankers
What did he mean by this?

I've owned this game since September. I've never not once seen a good McCree. Every time he's on my team or the enemies, he does fuck all.

His gun, his skill kit, his ult, everything screams "mediocre as fuck"

Has anyone here EVER seen a legitmately good McCree player in-game? I'm pretty sure the only ones exist are the extremely small 0.01% minorty in the top 500.

I'm sick of having this useless fuck on my team. just remove him and remove widowmaker too

Winston exists too.

>worst offense hero in the game right now

sorry but that title goes to Reaper

It's not that he was strong before and is now weaker, it's that McCree and 76 are competing in the same general niche and right now 76 does everything better. Why bother with a flashbang when you can just hit a helix rocket or do enough damage at range to deter flankers anyway. Doesn't help that the flashbang still has the flanker flying a few feet after being stunned AND you have to hit one or two headshots to kill them since Fan the Hammer is totally useless.

At least Reaper's ult gets kills every single time.

>DIE DIE DIE
>2-3 kills
>IT'S HIGH N-AUGHH!
It's not difficult to figure out which ones better, user.

I remember he used to be OP as fuck.

Good McCree players exist, and it has NOTHING to do with his abilities. Being good with McCree means hitting headshots consistently at all ranges. If you aren't doing this you're LITERALLY just poverty 76 with a useless ult and no self-heal.

>Let's buff our jack-of-all-trades character for no reason
>while were at it, I think the most passive hero in the game should be unkillable
I had heard the stories of Blizzard balancing nightmares, but never experienced it til overwatch.

>Manage to flashbang Tracer
>Now I've got-
>Wait, where is she.
>Realize what just happened, turn 180 degrees.
>Tracer is right behind my back, just recovered from the stun.
Every fucking time.

He used to have a job before Blizzard thought it was a good idea to hand out free shields to everybody.

You're just not playing Reaper correctly. Get behind the enemy line and kill the healer, and then put pressure on their tanks. I've never once felt like Reaper is OP in this game, he's so good at his job.

>43 kills
>42 fan hammers
>u just dont know how to play git gud xD

Not to mention that if tracer uses any of her 3 blinks to avoid your ONE flashbang, you're shit out of luck for 10 seconds and whatever hits you do manage to get on her are erased by recall.

Here's how to fix this game
Nerf Zarya
Remove, McCree, Hanzo, Widowmaker and Torb
Put Sombra in defense class, re-tool her
Give Junkrat at least a fighting chance

Any competent team will hear your eardrum splitting teleport or your earthquake footsteps and kill you before you can get close enough to do anything. Why should you risk your life to do close range damage when you can do the same fucking thing as Soldier from behind your Rein's shield surrounded by your healers. Again, it's not that Reaper is bad, it's that even when doing what his character was made to do, 76 can do it safer and easier.

they should make it so mcree still focuses on heros even through walls. Maybe at a slower rate but it should still. I mean hes the best tex in the west if hes good he should be able to shoot without fail with his robot arm.

The good ol days of McSkill will never come back and I am fine with that.

*right clicks behind you* pshhh nothin personell pardner

>Get behind the enemy line and kill the healer, and then put pressure on their tanks.
There are at least four characters off the top of my head who can do this better than Reaper, especially now that Sombra's been buffed.

I think Reaper needs to be able to do damage up close on the front line while also being able to assassinate. McCree should be able to out-duel ANY hero in the game except tanks 1v1, and also do massive damage from mid range if nobody takes care of his immobile ass.

As of now, neither hero can do their jobs, since both of them die instantly under any focus fire.

>Sombra's been buffed
I haven't played in a while. What did they change?

Has the voice line trick been patched out? pop a voice line as soon as you teleport, he doesn't do the teleport one. I do agree that soldier is too good though.

She is white now

>What went wrong?
Used to be high noon, now it's midnight. Dawn's comin' right around the corner at this rate.

Tfw I practised aim and flicking as McCree for 20 minutes a day for 5 days and now I can two tap Tracers.

Playing McCree is like playing Counter-Strike with a nospread Desert Eagle.

As much as his kit sucks. I fucking love him. All your left click kills are pure skill and it feels fucking great to hear the "ding" headshot noise as you melt tanks or instagib a squishy. He has no crutch abilities to bail him out of a shit situation. No helix rocket. No self heal. No hook. No shields. It's just you and your aim.

I welcome any buffs he gets though. His falloff really makes him annoying to play sometimes.

I see one buff suggestion flying around a lot, which is to make his roll reset on kill like Genjis dash.

If they made the disappear on his *teleports behind u* go faster, I think that would help. Maybe they could make him actually able to shoot as he reappears, but unable to move until the animation finishes.

Blizzard already demonstrated that they don't like tricks when they got rid of Genji's triple jump. If the voice line trick is still in the game, I wouldn't count on it being there much longer. I remember when it was considered better to use the Halloween Reaper skin because its teleport sound was slightly quieter than normal. If tricks and skin differences are what players are using to get more out of Reaper's kit, then there is a problem that Blizzard needs to address.

Roll reset on headshot kill. Encourages higher level play.

What if McCree's falloff range started at 30 meters but he only did 60 damage per headshot?

Then, they buff his FTH on top of tightening his spread by making it so that his first bullet does 70 damage, and each subsequent bullet deals 10 less damage? That means that if squishies avoid the first bullet or two, they would still die if they got hit by the last 4 bullets. McCree still wouldn't do enough damage to destroy tanks either because 70+60+50+40+30+20=270 damage, which is the exact same damage he deals now.

Or, they could just buff the shit out of Flashbang which would probably piss off everyone.

>Genji tearing team apart
>Pick mcree to counter
>1v1 with genji he deflects on sight
>I wait until deflect finishes
>He swift strikes me for 100 free damage
>i try to do a 180 and die instantly from a right click

Sure is great at killing those flankers right guys?

What I don't understand is why a dedicated DPS isn't allowed to one-shot characters but a Tank with a million years of sustain is.

This is why I still play McCree despite his shitty kit. His gun is so satisfying to use even with the abominable falloff and when you get into the groove and hit all your shots you can wreck the game without using any abilities at all. The problem is a lot of other character can do just as much just by pressing ONE button on their keyboard.

Because tanks are "immobile" and "close range" (read: they have gap closers, shields, and do massive damage).

Again, I agree completely. There's no point in having a sneaky teleport move if you broadcast to the enemy team that you're doing it. Being able to figure out that the enemy team has a reaper and you haven't seen him in a little while is not an unreasonable expectation. His ult is so interruptable because the damage is done over a longer period of time, Most good teams can drop a death blossom like it's a rocket barrage.

Yup, McCree is an amazingly fun character. It just sucks that it basically takes being a god to be as good as an "expert" on a different hero.

>What went wrong?
Nothing. And then shitters cried so Blizzard made him useless so shitters would stop crying. If you're surprised at all by this then you haven't been playing Blizzard games for long.

Hacked health packs are visible through walls, voice lines have a lower range, cooldowns on both abilities were reduced. She's more effective, more stealthy without being OP, and it's much easier to get ult charge while supporting your team.

Because you're retarded and apply design standards that aren't applicable in the game.

McCree sucks but that doesn't mean Roadhog's OP, and there are plenty of other characters who can two-shot.

Tanks in an FPS sounded like a bad idea from the start, but I had faith that somehow Blizzard could make it work. Boy, was I wrong. In their eyes a tank is just a DPS with more health and a bigger hitbox. The only real tanks in this game are Rein and to a certain extent, Orisa. The others are just fatter DPS.

I want this to be how the scatter arrow works. Each one does slightly less damage. I don't think it was meant to do 460 damage to a single target, even if that target is Roadhog.

he was fucking op as shit on launch.

but they did nuke his ass into oblivion as a response.

>low-health squishy isn't allowed to do damage
>but a tank can one-shot

I feel like they had the idea for Rein, went all out on making him the best true tank that they could, and then immediately ran out of ideas. The only way tanks work in PvP is through forced CC which they can't even say that they want to avoid because characters that AREN'T tanks have CC but Tanks do DPS for some reason.

Reinhardt is the only one I can think of that can one shot most of the cast with a non environmental kill, non ult ability. And his charge requires him to drop his shield and take a risk. Roadhook misses and there's no consequence.

Don't forget that part of his OP status came from not having the single hero limit
Launch McCree would still be a bit too good at busting tanks, but having one per team would make it manageable

It's true. There are a million and one ways to shut down a Death Blossom. First of all, it's the only channeled ult in the game that required you to be in close range to use it. Second, there is always at LEAST one barrier and one support ult available + most of the "meta" characters have CC abilities like hook and sleep dart. Even if you get past all of these and get a good ult, most tanks can live long enough through it to kill you anyway. Even funnier than that is that despite all this, Death Blossom is many times better than McCree's ult.

He lacks self sustain, give him 50 armor. He literally has a special fucking suit and an arm.

I feel like messing with his fall-off range would make him OP again.

Name 1 MP game where stuns are a fun mechanic.

>low-health squishy isn't allowed to do damage
>but a tank can one-shot
Re-read where I said "McCree sucks but that doesn't make Roadhog OP", there are penty of low-health squishies that can do damage.

Roadhog misses and he's a fat waddling useless sack of shit, he's a one-trick pony even after the changes. This is why I said "two-shot" not "one-shot" because in a real game Roadhog only "one-shots" if he's landed the hook.

His ult just does not synergize very well. All it takes is a Reinhardt to pivot with his shield etc and it's cucked. It has one of the most recognizable voice prompts too, and makes you light up so its easily avoidable.

At this moment, his ult needs a redesign. Fan needs a slight damage buff. Stun may need some QoL since yeah its impossible for him to kill a tracer unless he ambushes her on a doorway.

...

You guys dont know shit. Mcree is amazing, is just that Soldier right now is doing his job better than him. He only needs some tweek to get it at the same level.

But they are still interchangeable.

Something like a falloff range should be tweaked a small amount at a time. If Blizzard takes time and effort to find a comfortable value instead of their usual ham-fisted balancing strategy it would benefit every character. We get problems like this when they hear complaints about his range and fucking NUKE his damage with colossal damage falloff instead of doing a minor tweak. They do stuff like this for every character. It's evident that there are too many characters in this game for Blizzard to give them each the balance thought they deserve. The sad part about this is that even though it's clear they are struggling with game balance, they still push out huge cosmetic updates and holiday events to sell extra lootboxes.

>falloff range on left click decreased by 2-3m
>fan damage increased by 5-10 damage per bullet or fan spread decreased
>deadeye gives him slight damage resistance only for the duration of his ult

did i fix him

Give his ult 15% barrier penetration per second of charge time. It still makes barriers useful but not a complete cockblock, especially when trying to kill low-health targets.

Not really, Hog can one shot a zarya with a well placed alt fire

The best I can suggest is maybe try to aim the flashbang a bit to the left or right of him. Sometimes I just forgo the fan and just try to him them in the head with a normal headshot, and hope I can finish him off before he's out of sight
But yes, Ganji Mains are a nightmare to deal with

My main problem is just mis-handling of it in general.

I figured out a long time ago that the game's not really for me and that's okay because Blizzard tried something and it didn't work out that well, but there's a lot of shit that's sabotaging their own game that they won't change because they're insistent on sticking to their vision.

We need more maps, even though every new one that comes out seems to be worse than the last. Yet all we get is more characters. Characters that either are OP (Ana), quite literally worthless (Sombra), or change very little and shake up parts of the meta that didn't need shaking up (Orisa). PLUS the fact that it makes some of those heroes harder to balance.

And unlike Siege, they aren't claiming that they're okay with some heroes overstepping old ones, they're trying to claim that every hero has a palce.

symmetra is a better winston

How about this for a rework for his flashbang:

>Flashbang now has a 2 second fuse
>McCree can hold E to cook the flashbang before throwing by releasing E
>Flashbang has a slightly wider radius and stun time
>Able to roll while cooking flashbang, but not shoot

>ruining ambushes for the whole enemy team is useless

Once Anti-Tank McCree was gone there wasn't any DPS that out damaged the tanks and we got the tank meta pretty much from June until right now.

This always happens in a game with this many characters. It's just unusual for it to happen this soon after launch. It hasn't even been a year and characters are already stepping on each other's toes. It does not bode well for the future of this game balance-wise desu.

Blizzard hates skill based heroes.

Why do you think they keep buffing or taking an eternity to nerf the braindead heroes that require 100% less effort but have 100% more reward. If McCree or Widow had the power to dominate again like in the past all the retards who main shitter heroes would call hax and leave because they can't comprehend having to actually aim.

>tfw you suck with your favorite character

He's supposed to assfuck mobile flankers.

So Tracer and Genji.

But guess which heroes suck dick and are never played?

>That short time where he came back a bit with the great range buff

It was fun seeing people so salty after sniping people with his revolver, but at this point he just sucks.

It's kind of weird how each game kind of does something I think is dumb.

Overwatch has almost entirely free content (I barely count lootboxes because you're actually dumb if you play the lottery) but the balance issues make the game stale.

Siege is okay with having multiple characters doing the same job but since they all cost money and inevitably some are going to do the same job but better it opens the game up to manipulative pricing schemes.

>About the only thing that could survive was a Zarya

Roadhog still ate McCree like he was nothing.

The only issue was when you could 420 FTH was that you could also have multiple McCrees so that one could cover the other. And when they did the one hero limit, they also did the nerf so they never saw if it wasn't just the fact you could have 2 McCrees running around.

I mean, you had the 2 tracer, 2 lucio and 2 winston teams for KOTH and none of them got nerfed along with the one hero limit because you wanted to see how that played out.

But not McCree.

Honestly I don't even think McCree with a 420 FTH would break C tier with only one of them max, especially with the Tank Meta. Roadhog one shots him way before McCree can even hope to get close enough. D.Va just eats bullets and flash, Zarya absorbs it all and melts him, Ana can sleep him, ect.

McCree was only good when he had that FTH, or for the one week where he could actually hit at range.

After that he's been hovering around trash tier.

>still going on about yhis """"tank meta""""

jfc I hate seeing shitters like you ingame "muh tank meta11!1 we need 3 tanks1!"

At least it's calmed down

This coming from a rein main since July

Genji is a great flanker in the right hands

This so much. Making my way to masters solo q'ing. So many useless mcrees. I had a game the other day where we almost lost because our mcree wouldn't fucking switch and he couldn't even counter phara. Why the fuck do people even play mcree when soldier is so much better and has an amazing self heal.

>Reaper has a nice, though, he's a tankbuster.

Except for the fact Roadhog is a better tankbuster, and has more health and is better at breaking barriers.

And he can insta kill squishies and fuck up tanks from 20m away instead of having to dry hump them to do any damage.

I'm going to give you a chance to defend yourself before I decide you're stupid.

And yet you still would rather have other heroes for an ideal comp in most situations.

>His niche is to kill flankers

Except both Genji and Tracer destroy McCree 9/10. His only hope is getting a flashbang and anyone halfway decent isn't going to get close enough for that.

Nothing like bashing in cocky reapers faces as reinhardt or when they think they're being "sneaky"

This.

As a former McCree main I could tell you that when everyone picked separate characters McCree was probably pretty balanced. Unlike Roadhog who had the shortest hook timer ever in exchange for the hook being missable, McCree had very long cooldowns, and McCree could almost never overextend because he was defenseless without them. And it's not like McCree could snipe behind lines until the range buff.

Another thing that has made this game stale is the simple fact that like all "teamwork" games the game devolves into clumping together, which also give some heroes' abilities more credence.

Give him two revolvers.

Don't forget having better mobility, and having self and team healing when needed, and puts out way more damage at range. McCree needs to get close to be any real good, which he then gets outshined by Reaper, who also right now isn't that great but at least has much better escapes and neutralizing debuffs and self-sustain with souls, but can push as much damage up close, has a much better ult.

And at range he gets shit on by Roadhog, S76, Widowmaker, ect.

So really, McCree needs buffs.

Just replace him with the Six Gun Killer

Yeah okay.

Here, I'll put McCree in the "Balanced Characters that DESPERATELY Need Buffs Right-Stat-Now"
>McCree
>Winston
>Reinhardt
>Zenyatta
>Pharah
>Tracer
>Genji
>Mei
>Junkrat
>Reaper

Am I forgetting anyone?

Roadhog can 2 shot most tanks.

He's the best DPS in the game, and has 600 HP with a self heal of 300 that also gives him a fuck load of ult charge, and his range to deal instant death is the length of his chain meaning only really S76, Widowmaker and Hanzo out range him outright.