Morrowind is easily the best on the series if you're an autistic nostalgiafag who thinks dice roll combat in the first...

Morrowind is easily the best on the series if you're an autistic nostalgiafag who thinks dice roll combat in the first person view is a good idea and enjoy a lifeless world with NPCs standing in one spot doing absolutely nothing.

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You can play third person too. Also, dice roll and stats is better than two potatoes beating their arms against one another clumsily.

Don't forget that while everyone says it isn't realistic or cool feeling that you can miss when you CLEARLY hit your enemy on the screen, how about future games in the series where you stab a fucker in the face or crush their head in with an axe 20 times and do next to no damage because their level is way higher than yours?

RPGs are in part about stats, so I don't see accuracy as a bad one. If you're going to make combat more like an action game and less like an RPG, why the fuck would you take out accuracy and make other problems worse instead of just making good or even full action combat? It's not even half-assing it at this point.

It literally is the best one in the series, though.

Actually, it's the best in the series if you think writing, settings, story, world-building, art direction, soundtrack and mechanics actually contributing to the narrative aspect (e.g. player is forced by the mechanics to properly role-play his adventure, rather than being essentially thrown into a sandbox where you can do anything regardless of your levels/build) matter.

Sure. The combat is a bit of chore. It's less accessible and instantly gratifying than the two follow-up games in general.

But if you expect a roleplaying game actually focusing on the roleplaying, both mechanically and narratively, Morrowind is by FAR the best in the series. To a point where you could easily argue that it's the only one really worth playing.

Essentially, it's about whenever you care more about the act of pressing buttons, or if you care more about the actual content of the game. Oblivion and Skyrim may be easier to play, but it's much more difficult to actually explain why are you playing in the first place. If you want to kill time in a non-insulting manner, they are better. If you want to actually experience an interesting and memorable adventure, Morrowind is really the best in the series.

Oh look, the high schoolers have discovered Sup Forums. Let me tell you about how games worked back in my day kid.

I don't get how people find it less accessible. In Morrowind, if you have no skill in long blades and no stamina and you swing at shit you'll do shitty damage by virtue of rarely hitting them. In Oblivion/Skyrim, if you have no skill in one handed and no stamina and swing as shit you'll do shitty damage by virtue of just doing shitty damage. It's like the same bad thing in different flavors.

Both of those are just people being BAD and not thinking at all, but I personally prefer to miss if my individual hits count for more because at least my retarded long blade wielding ass will gain satisfaction from an eventual hit instead of chunk in away tiny slivers of health like I'm hitting the bandit with a pool noodl.

user they fell victim to the "babbys first TES" syndrome.
For some the first is the only one that matters and any talk of any flaws are seen as a personnel affront.

It takes all kinds so let them be.

Considering where open world RPG's were when Morrowind came out the combat system was still rather revolutionary, in the sense that it moves what had been a gods eye view or 3rd person experience down to 1st person that was previously only the domain of shooters rather then RPG's like World of Warcraft or Diablo II. This game was one of the first open world RPG's and it is clear getting that right was the focus. The combat and static NPC's were pretty much standard fare for that generation.

If I would have a legitimate complaint, it would be about its broken economic system.

It's a much better (and actual) RPG than the Action Adventure games that are Oblivion and Skyrim.

>player is forced by the mechanics to properly role-play his adventure

Morrowind is an shallow RPG precisely because these mechanics are poorly implemented.
You're only comparing it to other TES games to make it look good, but not also to other, more complex RPGs.

>having to resort to ""Efficient Leveling"" and making completely absurd builds (this is even worse in Oblivion) instead of having a more fluid and natural progression
>class choice doesn't matter late game, you can become jack of all trades
>crafting is easily exploitable and becomes overpowered
>NPCs outside of the few unique ones have copy-pasted "dialogue" and no character at all
>few dialogue choices and skill checks

There are tons of differing quests I don't see why that pic would use that criticism. I can't think of a game off hand where the quests have so many different problems and solutions. If anything how bug ridden the game is should be the number 1 complaint. The modding scene has put in a ridiculous amount of time fixing it up and crashes are still to be expected.

That is a good thing.
ARPGs are better than CRPGs.

The only people who disagree are old people and hipsters.
Neither matter.

if you play TES for the combat you are doing it wrong

>Morrowind is an shallow RPG precisely because these mechanics are poorly implemented.
Not really. Morrowind actually does shit like limiting character career progression within individual factions by imposing stat and skill requirements on ranking: something that the later games sorely missed. Character progression is slow and directly impacts your playstyle (if you are weak at fighting, the game is not going to wait and adjust the difficulty to fit you. At the same time, if allows for breaking/exploiting build-orders to skip content and generally be pretty damn creative about your character options.
As for that article, that is just a load of bullshit. Yeah, it's mechanically same-y which is inevitable in a game of this sheer size. However, again from narrative standpoint it's properly fleshed out and fully functional.

>more complex RPGs.
Like what? Fallout? Arcanum? Baldurs Gate and Planescape? Because those are mechanically and design-wise FUNDAMENTALLY different games. They are about as different from Morrowind as Diablo is from them. They are not sandboxes, they are not about emergent exploration. Those things matter and necessitate different design philosophy.
>having to resort to ""Efficient Leveling"" and making completely absurd builds
Not really, unless you are intentionally powergaming.
>class choice doesn't matter late game, you can become jack of all trades
Sure. You can do that in most RPG's. We are talking, however, VERY late game. Like 50+ours or more of late game. And yes, it's logical that the game slowly opens up. It's not linear, it's content is unlocked by character progression, not narrative or spacial one.
>crafting is easily exploitable and becomes overpowered
Every good RPG can be broken easily. This is true about literally every single half-decent one out there.
>dialogue" and no character at all
You literally don not understand how the dialogue works. Because you are an idiot.

k

I love morrowind but I have to admit that the battle system is shit, specially if you're attacking with a bow or with magic since every miss costs you resources. I don't really now how anyone can defend it. Last time I played I had 75 AGI, 40 Marksman and I landed 40% of my attacks. I don't know how many times I almost got killed because I couldn't kill my enemy before he was close enough to attack me.

That's the only annoying flaw I can't think of, but it's a big one.

>Play Morrowind after Oblivion
>I'm fucking flying around and swinging flame swords at pterodactyls one hundred feet in mid air like DBZ, sprinting at break neck speeds and leaping hundreds of feet over buildings and mountains
>Never play Oblivion or Skyrim again

Morrowind is trash, because there are no mods that unfuck its combat. Oblivion has v5 of Deadly Reflex, Skyrim has Duel Combat Realism and Mighty Magick while Morrowind's combat is forever doomed to be shit.

Also, the best player made quest and land mods are those made for Skyrim, TR is fucking dogshit.

morrowind's combat is perfect and doesn't need fixing

I think you mistook it for a hack&slash game

>this makes the morrowfag REEEEEEEEEEEE

>morrowind's combat is perfect
>doesn't have any defensive mechanics that allow you to not get hit apart from stacking agility and Sanctuary
Yeah, no, it's shit. Skyrim can be modded to have legitimate, Blade of Darkness tier sidestep dodge moves, Morrowind combat is just retards standing in place and swinging their weapons at each other's heads.

>>doesn't have any defensive mechanics that allow you to not get hit apart from stacking agility and Sanctuary
>Morrowind combat is just retards standing in place and swinging their weapons at each other's heads.

Yea, because all that matters is your stats and the enemy's stats, because it's an RPG, not an action game.

>Yea, because all that matters is your stats and the enemy's stats
And that's why it's shit.

>because it's an RPG, not an action game.
>what are action RPGs like New Vegas or Gothic/Risen/VtM:B
>implying you can't have a RPG with actually good action combat that is supplemented by stats
It's shit, stop arguing and go play Skyrim, kid.

>people think that "mods" excuse a game from being shit

>skyrim skyrim skyrim

how to spot

True RPG players don't give a fuck about some action gimmics

Skyrim added action elements to appeal to the 14 year old console faggots (such as yourself) because they would find it boring otherwise

>In Morrowind, if you have no skill in long blades and no stamina and you swing at shit you'll do shitty damage by virtue of rarely hitting them. In Oblivion/Skyrim, if you have no skill in one handed and no stamina and swing as shit you'll do shitty damage by virtue of just doing shitty damage. It's like the same bad thing in different flavors.
This was always my issue with people pretending that Oblivion/Skyrim combat is any good.
How the fuck does hitting a guy with daedric axe in the face for 10 damage any better than missmissmissing?

>doesn't like dice rolls
Sorry quantum effects upset you, but randomness is realistic, always hitting isn't.

this
I couldn't care less about action combat in fucking RPGs.
Not that we've had a good, real RPG in the last 6 years or whatever.

>>what are action RPGs like New Vegas or Gothic/Risen/VtM:B
Morrowind is not an action RPG, what's your point?

If you are just going to jump genres that way might as well complain why Gothic has worse combat than DMC/MGR.

It's not dice rolls that's the problem, it's the lack of player controlled creation options and game mechanics that make the dice rolls unbearable in the first few levels.

Daggerfall has dice rolls, but you can have improved hit rates with weapons, or even favoured enemy types. Plus with directional attacks you can trade in damage for improved hit rates.

Morrowind is just "don't run anywhere unless you have stamina potions, stand still and spam attack, and only use best attack because for whatever reason they thought nerfing your damage on different directions with zero upside is a fucking smart design".

he was meme-ing you stupid newfaggot migrant

pro-tip: if somebody posts as Todd, they usually don't mean the stuff and the post is actually intended to make fun of idiots defending skyrim and the other fuckshit

Gee, I wonder what started this trend.

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>>what are action RPGs like New Vegas or Gothic/Risen/VtM:B
Gothic, Risen and VtM:B are about as stat-reliant as Morrowind is.

You can simply force the combat to be how you like, don't like the hit chances? enter a console command and be fucking happy.

That's why your shit isn't valid criticism. Combat in RPGs doesn't really matter that much, much less if you can actually balance the combat yourself with a few in-game console commands to fit your liking. And of course this is intended.

It's about the REST of the game, which is fabulous.
The lore, the details, the quests.
the RPG aspects.

Daily reminder that jews from Bethesda release unfinished dog shit trash games so that the modders can work and develop their game for free without any payment

They're basically developing a game for Bethesda for free

And yet you stupid faggots don't see a problem with that

>Affecting your combat via game mechanics is the same as cheating

Nice "valid" rebuttal there. Also, gameplay isn't he most important part of a video game. Morrowind has great lore and writing, as well as attention to detail. None of that stops the game from playing like absolute trash, or the animations being god awful.

Do you have any reading comprehension?
Is English not your first language?
I was arguing for YOUR point.

Is the*

Good job autocorrect.

...

Wow, this thread has almost everything that a shitposting thread about Morrowind can have. From the "mostalgia goggles" to the gothic shitposters. The only thing missing is the people who post videos of someone with 5 longblade and 0 fatigue missing on a rat 100 times in a row.

Everyone here sees the problem.

Everyone also knows they just have to put up with it because no other game/franchise does what TES does, in terms of sandbox/rpg/action/exploration in world with npc/creatures interacting around them to an extent in a dynamic world (morrowind excluded from that one, the npcs do nothing in it).

There is no competition.

just because he calls bethesda jews this isn't even remotely a Sup Forums posting

>>class choice doesn't matter late game, you can become jack of all trades

Yeah, if you spend a lot of time leveling your minor and tertiary skills, they will increase.
>>crafting is easily exploitable and becomes overpowered
I consider that a pro not a con
>>NPCs outside of the few unique ones have copy-pasted "dialogue" and no character at all
What? The dialog is in text and done via topics which expand the more you talk to people, way more in-depth than anything the later games have done being stuck with limitations of voice acted lines.
>>few dialogue choices and skill checks
Do what? Maybe I've been playing with mods for too long and don't remember vanilla at all, but I don't believe this is the case.

>specially if you're attacking with a bow or with magic since every miss costs you resources

So failing actually penalizes you and failure has a random chance and you don't like that?

That seems to be the main complaint, "OMG my character can miss and fail and I don't like that because I take great pains to pretend I'm not a failure at life."

I agree especially after BotW

It is a great game, but I have no idea why so many people like it THAT much. Gothic 1 is superior almost every way, except it has less stuff you can do in general.

The amerifags will never understand, brodudem8

most of people who like Morrowind over Gothic are the people who haven't played Gothic and just think that nothing can beat their game so they dont even bother

If they played Gothic 1 or 2 they would see how superior everything is in Gothic

And Morrowind is my 2nd favorite RPG after Gothic

>And yet you stupid faggots don't see a problem with that

I see a problem with that which is why the last Bethesda game I bought was Morrowind.

Morrowind had more life due to worldbuilding, design and story than all the other games combined.

Npcs walking back and forth and having awkward conversations can't redeem half-assed worldbuilding, lazy design and a hamfisted story.

youtube.com/watch?v=4ZUynhkal1I

>More life
More like undead since the unblinking NPCs stay in place and never deviate, say the exact same things word for word, and never sleep or close shop.

>morrowind has more life

Morrownid has 0 life, and so does every other Bethesda game

here's an example of a game with life

youtube.com/watch?v=IZXsn4s1f2Q
youtube.com/watch?v=raW0hdlcgEk

They're very different games so it's hard to compare them.

Gothic is a linear action rpg.

Morrowind is an open world sandbox rpg.

The beauty of Gothic is the atmosphere it creates through design.

The beauty of Morrowind is the atmosphere it creates through the setting and lore.

>Gothic is a linear action rpg.


Gothic is fully open world tho

You mean like in 90% of all rpgs ever?

The same thing applies to any infinity engine game, some of which are considered the greatest rpgs of all time.

Morrowind has a bigger focus on setting, story and lore. It was also pretty large for an early 3D rpg, while Gothic was comparatively small and it doesn't have much lore to speak of and the story is kind of bland.

For Gothic they focused on animation and design to make their world feel alive, but in Morrowind that would have blown their budget. They focused on setting, story and lore to make their world feel alive.

They are both great games, but they are also very different.

it has the best story though

Still, 90% of it will always play the same.
You can choose different camps or "classes" but playthroughs don't really differ very much.

Oblivion is my first and i consider it shit for the story being inaccessible and the way you level up being almost a waste of time. Plus the inventory and all that was confusing at first. I still enjoyed it how I enjoyed gta. A game for fucking around and doing side quests.

>Combat in RPGs doesn't really matter that much
Fuck off.

>You mean like 90% of all RPGs ever
Funny, Daggerfall had shops that close down, NPCs that had varied dialogue for the same topics (as well as tonality), and even refused to divulge information for too long to any one person.

That alone is far more lifelike, and is the predecessor of Morrowind. Funny how Morrowfags are the first to shriek whenever something has "removed an element of TES" and yet Morrowind's the biggest offender in the entire series.

That is technicaly true for every game ever. But I know what you mean. Gothic is more limited than morrowind (less "classes", less skills, smaller world, less dungeons etc.) The thing is you can basicaly do everything you can in one playthrough.

Gothic on the other hand, locks entire portions of the game from you depending on who you join. Not to mention the magic system that is only accesible to mages and nobody else. Gothic has much more replayability than morrowind, morrowind has more shit to do.

Daggerfall had copypaste npcs that weren't reactive at all, what are you talking about?

You'd get npcs like dragon knights that wouldn't know anything about the dragon knights, inside the freaking dragon knights HQ.

>Morrowind is trash, because there are no mods that unfuck its combat.

gratuitous violence

Morrowind also locks certain factions if you already joined rival ones.
My mage playthrough was very different from my thief one, not only because of the things I did, but also how i approached the main quest.

As a mage I would mostly explore the wilderness, hunting for souls to bind and ingredients. I would hoard magic items to copy their abilities, collect books and generally find out about the world as much as a could.

As a thief I stuck to the cities and break into houses, exploring every nook and cranny for hidden items and gold. You find out many secrets that way that you wouldn't find out otherwise.

It felt very rewarding to invest myself into the world.

I enjoyed Gothic for very different reasons and I'm actually glad that they didn't go with their initial plan of including stereotypical classes from the start. They turned them into npcs instead. Diego was the thief, Gorn the warrior, Milten the mage and lester the psionic.

To properly "get" Gothic you have to be Eastern European or German.

being a thief in morrowind is boring though because there's no tension. NPCs just stand in one spot.

Meanwhile in Oblivion you could learn peoples life style, break into their house while they were out at the market/tavern/whatever, or sneak around while they were inside/sleeping, being careful not to wake/alert them to your presence.

skyrim best yet

>future games in the series where you stab a fucker in the face or crush their head in with an axe 20 times and do next to no damage because their level is way higher than yours?
Literally doesn't happen due to level scaling

Or you could just break into their houses while they're asleep and don't bother with anything else.
I mean, sure it was fun but the awful lockpicking minigame that made the skill useless made it too easy.

You still had to be careful not alert them or they'd come running.

Agree on the lockpicking though, i used a real-time lockpicking mod that was chance based, based on your stats, but as it was in real-time you had to be on constantly lookout for NPCs/guards on their travels who might spot you

Skyrim simplified schedules a bit so Oblivion easily had the best thievery experience of any TES game imo.

Use magic
Hit monster

Yeah thieving in Oblivion was the best out of all the TES games, but it was still pretty flawed, at least without mods
You just break in two or three houses on the Talos plaza district and you already have enough money to do the whole thieves guild questline, and it's not like there's anything worth ransacking in 80% of the houses in the world, you just rob the 4 houses of the rich district of every city + castle and that's it.
It needed some heavily guarded vaults with treasures a la Morrowind and it would've been GOAT.

Oh and it also pissed me of that you can't actually access anything other than the first two floors of the White-Gold tower until the plot demands it.

>It needed some heavily guarded vaults with treasures a la Morrowind and it would've been GOAT.

There was indeed a good mod for that, it added vaults to most of the city keeps. Can't remember what it was called though, I think it also added a "bank" to the imperial city

>install gothic
>expect WASD
>actually you control the character like a car

what in the fuck this is so bad lmao, how come nobody never mentions this. it's so retarded it surprised me to the point that I laughed, like lol what were they thinking at all

>2017
>not being a car

it looks natural instead of diagonal walking in morrowind which looks ridicolous in 3rd person

>replying to the op
>acting like an old fag