Which kind of class system is the best, Sup Forums?

Which kind of class system is the best, Sup Forums?

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Branching

Branching >>> subclassing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no speccs at all with linear growth > specific

>branching
>while retaining skills of previous classes
>ending classes are very similar to one another

It doesn't matter cause you'll always fall into the meta trap where a handful of classes are OP and the rest are dogshit and never worth using

Specific. Only shit games rely on fake feeling progression.
>dude at level 30 I can be a bandit or I can be an assassin, whoa
So lame

>Caring about the meta
>Not just going the class route you personally enjoy the most
>Not just doing the best you can regardless
>Not being the best in the server at an otherwise disregarded job

only matters in pvp which is dogshit anyway

Name 1 (ONE) game with a branching class system that isn't dog shit.

Dragons Dogma

It literally doesn't matter since you'll pick whatever you want to be in endgame anyway

If you want to be a wizard then you'll either pick wizard in a specific system, or pick the classes that lead to wizard in a branching system. With that in mind may as well use a specific system to cut out the bullshit.

Classless is the best. You're arguing about flavors of shit.

Classless only works if it's not a party game

xenoblade chronicles x

Ragnarok

...

I legitimately love this game. The classes were great and their only real drawback was the wonky bazaar system and the difficulty of getting the items necessary for getting the abilities you wanted

It's really all the same shit. Classless would be best, but then you couldn't make unique abilities in your game without putting in a lot of effort, that and you would have meta problems.

>tfw no FF Tactics MMO

Subclassing picked at level 1 + multiclassing as a mechanic separate from it.

Like AD&D 2E's kits, but without the fucktardedness of dual classing. Or Legend's tracks, if that's your thing.

hardly branching

Wakfu is pretty good, shame it's not very popular

I prefer this one.

Dungeon Travelers

How is it? It looks like a bad Etrian Odyssey with RPG maker aesthetics

classless systems > class systems

Okay thanks person who isn't Karl Marx preserved brain connected to a computer.

I enjoyed the dungeon design and class system in DT2 a lot more than EO and there is a huge amount of postgame content.
But all the enemies are anime girls dressed up as different monsters so ymmv if you can't stomach that and the occasional fanservice.

Whats a classless system?
Everyone can use every skill? Everyone has a skilltree? Every character has its own skillset?

Whatever produces the largest number of viable builds between specializations and specific.

Branching is completely fucking shit in almost every scenario.

I like the decentralized one in this pic

every character can technically use all skills and weapons however effectiveness depends on the level of dedication to the individual skills
possibly with an additional perk system where perks can be freely chosen as long as the requirements (if any) are met and a stat system on which both are dependent

allows the maximum degree of freedom

No class system, just skills

the one that lest you take stuff from every class

>you can use every skill
>stat dependant

So either you make it like fucking Skyrim where you can be everything at once, or you force the player in one skillset due to stats.

>Name 1 (ONE) game with a branching class system that isn't dog shit.
SD3 was legitimately tons of fun.

a class system also forces the player into one skillset
only difference is that classes arbitrarily limit what that skillset can be rather than allowing the player to custom tool his character

branching specific specialization subclassing

Branching > Sub-classing > Shit > No classes = Specific

No class system is good. It's a cover for a featureless game, as it by itself lengthens the time it takes to develop content exponentially with the number of classes. It also makes you play the game over and over for no reason than to pick a class to see if you like it in the first place.

The best system of all, bar none, is the runescape model. Equips that determine your playstyle, and using a style raises proficiency in that style. Do everything on one character, change when you feel like, and mix-match if you want. As a dev, you just develop one race and balance equipment instead.

>using a style raises procifiency in that style
>good

Class systems are an outdated concept for PnP games where you need to minimize how much bookkeeping players are doing. There's no excuse for having them in a game where a computer can keep track of everything, they only restrict your options.

Star Wars Galaxies where you have a pool of points to distribute and combine however you wish.

In an mmo setting, it's perfect, and that was my misunderstanding. I didn't specify.

In a singleplayer, it literally does not fucking matter at all. You can make a singleplayer class system work in any way you want and pull it off.

the fuck is PnP

>less diversity of builds and characters because everything ends up in the same broad categories
Seems unsatisfying honestly

Pen and paper, you underage dipshit.

>posts this argument with a fallout image when fallout 4 had the worst system of any game ever

i'm not sure you realize, but pnp is not a videogame term. why not use rpg since that's what you meant.

that's why he posted a fallout 1 character sheet and not a fallout 4 one

>thinking Fallout 4 had anything to do with Fallout

Branching with passives in a specific style.

>where you need to minimize how much bookkeeping players are doing
rpg is more often than not used as a term for rpg elements (stats and progression)

Tree of savior unironically has the the best class system of any game released in the past few years but the rest of the game is kinda meh and since it's an MMO there's an insufferable amount of metafaggotry.

Connected subclassing.
Something like Path of Exile that allows you to mix into other things if you feel like it's worth it.

Happens with no classes, everyone gravitates towards the meta skills. Branching with a limited stat and skill distribution allow for plenty of variety even in the same class.

Branching 100%

Subclassing>Specific>Branching

multi-classing

which you've apparently completely missed

RO had a better class system than ToS

I liked Guild War's freedom to mix and match classes

Don't think so, ROs was definitely more balanced since every class change was a direct upgrade but ToS gives you more options per promotion. RO is a better game overall for sure but it's just your standard branching classes with a few "ultimate" classes.

Let's say the end goal is Archmage.
A Magician -> Wizard -> Archmage branching tree means every archmage will have the same 'best' set of magician and wizard skills.

If you can get to Archmage from Mystic, Cleric, Magician and Oracle, every archmage can have more skill diversity.

It can create jack of all trades garbage and it's still prone to metafaggotry for pvp games, but at least it's not as shit for single player.

and that works, if its not broken don't fix it. Classes were pretty versatile, even had some of that after 3rd classes. High Priests of RO are a good example of that class versatility possible in RO.

Branching, but your levels reset at each branching point.

So you get to Level 10, you branch for new skills and potential skills and you're back at level 1. The more you branch the more niche and specialized skills you get, but the longer you delay actually getting stronger.

I like the idea behind ToS, but it feels that there are a ton of redundant skills for a lot of classes.

>Which kind of class system is the best, Sup Forums?
The over-complicated one.

That was the coolest part of Guild Wars and they fucked up by not putting it in the second one.

Branching is the best one. Even better if there's a hybrid class that connects two different classes trees together.

I always preferred branching but wished games like maplestory had a better system. Going from wizard to either cleric, ice lightning or fire poison was always cool, but the branching stopped there.

Absolver looks slick

youtu.be/UZDNwQIYtAM

what game has this system?

My favorite RPG is RPGs like Zelda and Assassin's Creed because you don't have to worry abount all this shit.

None, I just made it a couple of days ago when I was bored. That's why some of the classes don't really make sense, like pacifist having strength.

Seiken Densetsu 3

Not that user, but wouldn't that depend on how "skills" in each class are implemented? If each one is a package deal purely as a function of class then yeah you're right. But it's just as possible for each class to "make available" a set of skills, but you still have to pick and choose and have limits. So in your example going to Wizard and then Archmage would open up different sets to choose from but also close off the class ones of Mage.

I think that actually can also create a really interesting dynamic while still being conceptually simpler. Not only does everyone have to decide what skills to get and it can all be different, but also how long to stay in a given class (so how may from that class to acquire).

Obviously how well it works depends on skills actually all having utility but that's pretty true regardless.

hmm okay. looks nice tho. warlord having more (or less negative?) magic vs. samurai is pretty interesting choice too, but I see what you are going for

Is it even good? I tried playing Legend of Legacy, which I heard was a Senkei Denketsu clone, and it sucked balls

So you like shit? Good to know where the baseline plebeian is.

no classes, let me build from all available abilities.

Either mutable (pick one main class and alter it by mixing in another), pic related

- OR -

Classless, or rather build your own class.

They're nothing a like. You're thinking of SaGa, which is a totally different beast. Seiken Densetsu is a 2d action rpg. Plays kinda like a beat-em up but with a Zelda style screen advancing map and equips and spells and such.

I know people like classless but I think it's just too exploitable, usually all your options are just self restrictions you place on yourself since it's too easy generally to figure out the most broken builds.

anybody who posts a concrete answer is an idiot
it depends on what kind of progression the game is going for
there are pros and cons to each type and there are instances where all of them are better than the others

Yeah, I need to tweak it a bit.
The stats are more like modifier for your leveling, so negative numbers mean less growth in that specific area per level, while 0 means base growth of that stat.
Every tier forces you to strengthen one modifier and weaken another.

>tfw tried so hard to enjoy Tree of Savior

It really was the coolest. Guild Wars basically started off with not 6 classes, but 30. And with all expansions it had not 10 but 90 classes. Every choice had meaning in the mechanics.
It really came very close to allowing you to be who you want to be.

In Guild Wars 2 however, there's what, 9 or 10 classes and they play pretty similarly. There you can choose, but there's no point in choosing.

They really went from best to worst. I don't know why, or even how.

>not 6 classes, but 30. And with all expansions it had not 10 but 90 classes
...and the best part was that the same guy could be like 5 (or later on, 9) different classes, all part of his specialization.

this was pretty nice

Remind me of Digital Devil Saga (more so 2 than 1) as it kinda look like that. In theory you can max out everything and be every "class" but doing so take so much time to do that if you want to make any kind of decent pace for the game you WANT to focus. Basically best of both worlds for OCD min-max people and those who just want to play the damn game.

If you really wanna get complicated, here's a Ternary Plot for all the classes between Rogue, Wizard, and Fighter. People are too dumb for it so they just make it 'get' based whenever it's posted, though.

Don't think it really works for progression.

So 4 4 8 would be Summoner or Psion?

That was my main inspiration, but 100 classes are just too much for me. Making 36 classes distinct from each other will be hard enough.
Now that you mention it, I completed both DDS games not too long ago (like 2 years or something). Maybe it was a subconscious thing?

The main idea is that each tier/ring represents the age of the character. Youth, Adult and Senior/Master. Straight paths (like knave - knight - warlord) are the "normal" progression, while everything in between is more specialized.
It's supposed to be a class system for a roguelike.

Yeah, it's on the line so it's somewhere between those two.

100 classes is too much for anyone. Whoever made this originally had some serious dedication and time on their hands. I can only imagine it's from some tabletop manual for deciding a class based on dice rolls?

applying a ternary plot for something like skill progression in a fashion similar to the last remnant (your actions make your class change once stats reach a threshold) would be completely arbitrary and it doesn't even make sense in most cases. a magician is more rogueish than ninja?

>100 classes is too much for anyone
Not if you have some way of mapping your wishes for the character to the class. See

The devour and karma skills were straight up required if you wanted to go anywhere

Yeah, but GW was made by a company. I'm just a single guy.
From the players perspective, it doesn't matter too much how many classes there are, as long as the system is coherent. At least in my opinion.

Yess

Holy shit, that is a lot of stuff you have to deal with. How did people even play games back then when you had to memorize an encyclopedia to do anything? How can that even be fun?

>From the players perspective, it doesn't matter too much how many classes there are, as long as the system is coherent.
Well yes. But it matters insofar as that it gives mechanics support for the character you wish to build... If the system covers your wishes, it's all good. If not, you have to get as close as you can and then like, choose not to use part of the class or something like that... Which can feel ok, or not, depending on the rest of the system.