Is Team Fortress 2 the ultimate underdog comp shooter?
>never gets big prizemoney
>still has over a thousand competitive players just because they love the mode
>judged by its cover by generic shooter fags
>devs make the shittiest comp MM, making new players get the worst idea possible of what actual comp 6v6 is like
most importantly
>competitive plays nothing like pubs
this is the part that makes comp so good but such a small community
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Everything TF2 had going for it died with the introduction of the Mann Co. Store. Don't fool yourself, TF2 isn't an underdog, but it sure as shit doesn't deserve that status anymore.
I like it
The game is good because it doesnt take itself or anything seriously, including politics bullshit.
from a movement point of view its so fucking good
by sheer chance, the devs made one of the best rocket jumping systems in any game ever
It's objectively better than the stiff rocket jumping in Quake
>Strafing
>pogos
>walljumps
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>ultimate comp shooter
>half the characters are nearly unusuable in comp
>heavy, engineer and pyro are all usable in defence
>sniper and spy are all usable to pick value targets (medic, demo)
you just dont run full time sniper because hes slow, and dont run fulltime spy because the surprise wears off.
no. tf2 was meant to be casual.
I played a shit ton of tf2 in the past, but I unironically like overwatch more nowadays
>competitive TF2
have you ever tried 6v6 when you played TF2
t. simpleton brainlet
Nah its casual as fuck compared to classic. Art design is also complete trash
>art design is complete trash
t. edgy kid buying into generic shooters
>spend years perfectioning the most unique and well-thought shooter artstyle
>preteens are too edgy to think anything other than "lol cartoons"
dude you're the only one in this thread and this board who cares about comp tf2.
to answer your question from someone with the same mindset as i have and its incredibly boring to me
Engineer and Heavy are best used for last point defense, which makes sense.
Spy's value is inherently reduced in small, highly-coordinated teams with good communication. He could never be good in any serious competitive mode of any shooter ever.
Sniper deserves to be useless. If Sniper were good the game would be worse for it. As is, his position as a glass cannon with an incomparable ability to pick high-priority medics and demos is probably the best he could ever conceivably be.
Pyro is the red-headed stepchild of the roster where no one is sure if he is a specialist with not enough specialization or a generalist with not enough general utility/value. He actually has some of the best 1vs1 statistics in the game excluding his completely lopsided matchup against scout, and if updates could improve that matchup to a position where it only slightly favors scout pyro would be a solid pick.
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are you autistic?
>play Overwatch
>try sniping, hit nothing
>play TF2
>get banned for sniping too well
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TF2 is fucking dead, you stupid fuck.
And its replacement is the worst thing ever.
you know the thing where you repeat something so much that it loses its meaning?
still top 10 most played on steam, not dead by far
this is a tf2 thread NOT an overwatch one
The problem with tf2 in general is that it's fundamentally designed to be a casual game and noobs are so grateful to play a shooter where they can contribute to the team and do well with really no individual skill requirement that they think they're the shit and want to play it "competatively"
Then they complain because regardless of who panders to their "competitive casual" mentality (valve, tournament communities, pro gaming) they always complain that it's not "done right" without realizing the game fundamentally can never allow for it due to it's design.
>not a quake clone
>tf2 is literally a copy of a copy of a mod for quake
Cell-shading and the inability to aim don't make a game "different"
Trips wasted on a dumb fucking post.
>we removed grenades because our playtesters were dying to them
10/10 design for a shooter valve
>the game fundamentally can never allow for it due to it's design.
but it does
and its true that most pub shitters complain about comp without even trying it, just because their easy shit classes arent used
Classes don't really change anything user, even the most complex rocket jump into the most beautiful rocket MA is meaningless in TF2 because of how massive the hitboxes for the rocket and character are, and how fast the projectile speed is, while not even having any projectile drop. It's all flash and no substance.
>the difference between a high skill ceiling and a low skill ceiling is whether or not every class has grenades
woaaaaaahh.... really makes you ponder
>spamming grenades is skill
>grenade spam is good for gameplay
>all this stuff doesn't count because I said so
Quake has faster rockets and bigger hitboxes, and far less advanced movement.
>projectile drop
Battlefield is the most hardcore shooter: CONFIRMED.
Sorry user but if you're removing content from a game because the players are too bad to play with it then you're designing the game for idiots.
The developer commentary makes it clear that this is a game for people with no reflexes.
>spamming grenades
>in a franchise where you were always given 1 grenade which could potentially kill half the classes in the game
Sorry user but if you can't dodge a grenade with a scout or a pyro's air burst then you don't deserve to be playing a shooter period.
>game has 9 classes
>even the poster shows only 4, 2 of them twice
it's the smash bros melee of FPS games.
>throw grenade up in the air
>get random kill
>skill
oh man, you would love CoD4
god bless valve from removing grenades from the game
>Quake has faster rockets
Same speed, it's designed off the same original mechanics.
>bigger hitboxes
Not even close, tf2 has some of the biggest hitboxes in the genre, right on par with paladins.
>and far less advanced movement.
He says, talking about a game with bunnyhopping and mid-air manuvering, in comparison to a game where the most advanced mechanics is rocket jumping.
Also don't forget the levels in quake are on average 5x bigger/more open, so the targets tend to be 5x smaller/further away, and your projectile speed and shot actually start to matter, instead of just being a series of small open areas connected by corridors like tf2.
user the only thing you've proven is that you've never played tfc or tf.
Grenades were garbage in both of them, and 2/3rds of the grenades in the game couldn't even kill a scout, they were debuffs and area denial.
Wow, you listened to developer commentary and suddenly you're an expert on TF2's mechanics. It's almost like they didn't bother mentioning all the good mechanics they kept in the game because it would be pointless to mention them since, you know, they're already in the game.
You've been posting this dumb fucking meme since TF2 came out, it's pathetic. Waste of quints.
>frag x3
>sonic bewm
>marty
Competitive TF2 players sure are autistic.
>It's almost like they didn't bother mentioning all the good mechanics they kept in the game
Example?
Because I honestly can't imagine what the fuck you're talking about.
At best the game has rocket jumping, which isn't even that impressive to begin with.
I can name a hundred mechanics that tfc had that tf2 doesn't, all of which made it a better game.
And a hundred mechanics that tf had that tfc didn't, which also made it a better game.
All we're left with is a slow campy casual shooter where weapons are either spray n pray or explosive spam.
>im-fucking-plying
You're spectacularly clueless on TF2's movement, go play any jump map and tell me Quake even comes close.
not as autistic as OW players
scene died in 2008 when valve started down the path of dress-up rpg nonsense
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Triggered.
really wish sentry buster wasnt based off demo's
Is this a tf2 shill thread?Not even mad, just impressed anyone still gives a shit about that game. Anyway, I'm off to play the superior fps, bye.
That's like 1/8th of heavy's hitbox by volume, and still smaller than sniper or scout's.
>go play any jump map
>Wow look ma' I can exploit a broken physics engine in situations that would never come up in a regular game of tf2!
This is fucking retarded, it's like saying counter-strike has advanced movement mechanics because of surf maps. You're a fucking moron.
TF2 is, at its core, one of the last actual fun and good video games with an MP focus
almost all other populated games are just nu-games that provide nu-fun, like Overwatch
ITT: fags that never played comp TF2 and cant even rocket jump talk about comp TF2
>Same speed, it's designed off the same original mechanics.
Nope
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compare
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Look at the first frag and the shots up at the tower
>Not even close, tf2 has some of the biggest hitboxes in the genre, right on par with paladins.
tf2 may have some funky hitboxes going on but oversized or Paladins size is wrong
>He says, talking about a game with bunnyhopping and mid-air manuvering, in comparison to a game where the most advanced mechanics is rocket jumping.
Also don't forget the levels in quake are on average 5x bigger/more open, so the targets tend to be 5x smaller/further away, and your projectile speed and shot actually start to matter, instead of just being a series of small open areas connected by corridors like tf2.
tf2 has all of that and has very large open maps, Gravel pit,Process,Granary,upward,koth maps most 5cp maps
gameplay aside can we all agree that moba-fps maps are so fucking awful and lazily done?
TF2 maps are the Mona Lisa in comparison
>nu-games that provide nu-fun
What.
>never come up in regular game of tf2
Most of those are standard rollouts, just because you're a shitter who can't even airstrafe doesn't mean everyone else is.
>projectile hitboxes are the same size as Quake's, with slower overall projectiles
woooooow
Why does the fucking horseman out of all things have the best hitbox?
is any of the Huge players still playing this?
What happened with stabby? Playing spy was his life
>tf2 has all of that and has very large open maps, Gravel pit,Process,Granary,upward,koth maps most 5cp maps
The longest shots on all of those maps wouldn't even match a shot from one side of the longest yard to the other, because the only weapon that can even hit the center of the screen repeatedly in tf2 is the sniper rifle.
Please stop responding to the shitposter.
TF2 is the melee of competitive fps games.
Overwatch is the Smash4 of fps games.
They all suck.
>post the railgun meme space maps
oh you are just shitposting, allright
you could at least post Q3DM6 or something
>how long your shots are measures the quality of gameplay
damage fall-off is one of the things that makes TF2 gameplay flow so well
when you attack you "push" the enemy
close range rockets and shotgun both do around 80-100 damage, while mid and long range do 20-40 damage
>defending zombie tf2
>kept alive with fucking hats
I would rather break your fucking neck
i dont wear hats nor waste my time and money on them
also i recommend you use this
teamfortress.tv
i play for the gameplay, since 2009, comp since 2013
>close range rockets and shotgun both do around 80-100 damage, while mid and long range do 20-40 damage
Obviously, it's a casual game where you're never meant to shoot at far-off targets because valve knows you won't hit them for 2 reasons; 1. you're a casual scrub playing a casual scrub game for people who could never hit a slow-moving target past 15m. 2. The guns are inaccurate as fuck, the maps are tiny, and in general the game is designed around the fact it's a casual scrub game. Wasn't that my point?
>win a game in a moba or hero shooter
>you smirk and get your epenis point on your scorecard
>lose and you rage like a fucking autist
>lose a billion points on your scorecard and you are now platinum and not titanium diamond 5 star rating
Is stopped playing overwatch after fourth season started
>play something you love to use
>people gets mad and tells you to change to something else
>play that
>people gets mad and told you that you suck at it
>people starts fighting on mic
>exit mic group
>people starts telling you shit by text
>play quick play
>everyone is so fucking bad that is not even fun
Never had this problems with tf2
I never gave a shit about TF2 competitive because it was the same type of thing as overwatch to me, fun for a good with some friends when I'm bored and don't feel like playing anything else. Comp just felt pointless for it.
If Overwatch's mechanical ceiling was high enough it wouldn't be so frustrating, because if you got good enough you could just carry. Unfortunately the game's designed from the ground up to prevent that.
tf2 has sightlines but if they were too open like on orange the sniper would dominate Having the longest sight-lines does not equal the best maps unless your playing some meme rail gun or sniper map. Half of competitive quakes maps are jumping around inside narrow hallway maps.
>a multiplayer FPS from one of the biggest names in the business, and basically for a decade pretty much the only big alternative for someone that didn't want to play tacticool shooters
TF2 at its basic fundamentals is one of the finest multiplayer shooters I'd ever had the pleasure of experiencing in all these decades.
Yes, there was time for "serious" play, but I'd also spent time in endless skirmishing in 24/7 2fort/mariokart_v2/whatever instant respawn 16 v 16 servers just because movement, combat, etc. was that good.
But like all the things that were ever "threatened" by "X-killers," it wasn't TF2 that was ever really hurt by anything external. TF2 pretty much killed itself through bizarre decisions to fix things that weren't issues in the first place.
Now, the game is still in the top 10 on Steam, so it's got quite some life in it yet.
Instead of talking in memes you can just make the case that these dopamine-focussed matchmaking games are shit.
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That's a duel user, obviously they're going to use a small map.
>tf2 has sightlines but if they were too open like on orange the sniper would dominate
But is that a problem with the map, the sniper, or the fact the other 8 classes in the game have zero killing potential at that range because of inaccurate spammy weapons?
this
>has over 60 hrs with junk rat
>us it in a match for like 5 min
>doing great
>dude, can you change to soldier? we dont need a junkrat
>literally has less than a hour of gameplay with him
>we lose
>people blame me because I was a junkrat at the start
why is this a webm is it supposed to be impressive or something
6v6 makes things more personal, so people bitch more about individual teammates, MOBA-style.
i never see comp quake players playing on the longest yard, probably because it's rail gun meme map
>a team based game was designed from the ground up to make people work as a team
>this is a problem
What?
Shitty casual meme game for fat furry brony faggots who keep literal jars of piss next to their computer.
in 6v6 killing 3 players is a huge deal, specially when they are world champions
in a 12v12 full of F2P, not so much
this is part of why its so hard for pubbers to understand 6v6 before trying it
has anyone stopped playing ow and went back to tf2? Was it worth it? Its been a year since I stopped playing and want to get back.
How different it is?
force*, not make. Huge, huge difference.
instafrag is clearly the pinnacle of competitive gaming
dm bots like you are so smart right?
Can you explain the difference? Or exactly why it's a problem?
i played TF2 for the first time in 4 years a couple of days ago. just the casual modes but honestly it hardly seems any different at all to me. worst change is that matchmaking seems to have killed a lot of good servers in the server browser.
also it seems like soldier is really popular now, every round there were 4-5 soldiers per team.
>instafrag is clearly the pinnacle of competitive gaming
I wouldn't know, I don't play a tf2 sniper
Nothing in quake can't instakill at 100 life, let alone 200 life 200 armor.
Compounded with the fact you can actually move at reasonable speeds in quake.
hes a pastabrain wanting to be the "hero" of the team without having to use his brain to figure out where his teammates are
you can still "carry" in TF2 more than in moba-fps games, but you need Teamplay in Team Fortress 2.
SPECIALLY in comp
>But is that a problem with the map, the sniper, or the fact the other 8 classes in the game have zero killing potential at that range because of inaccurate spammy weapons?
if your map serves 1 class out of 9 classes then it's a problem with your map design, clearly. tf2 isn't quake, not every class can operate at every range because that is the whole premise of a class based shooter, each class performs well in a situation. thing is even in a long range situation like that a generalist class like soldier could stomp a sniper due to mobility. maps like orange are boring shit for sniper mains (the most boring players)
i thought you would like instafrag railgun servers, since you like shitty space maps in Q3
you can move pretty fast if you take the time to rocket jump, but i guess thats just too hard for a Quake player doing pencil jumps
>then it's a problem with your map design
No, then it's a problem with class-design. The fact they have to limit their maps to a certain configuration to make every class a certain level of viable is embarrassing, because it fundamentally means the game is imbalance.
>because it fundamentally means the game is imbalance.
not if you switch class
>inaccurate spammy weapons? Uhh no sweetie
All tf2 weapons are perfectly accurate especially the projectiles. The sniper is a pick class and most maps have the perfect balance of sightlines with cover and alternate flank routes. If the other team wants to sit at the back of the control point they'll get headshot or lose the good map positioning then all die
The smart team will push in and take the good ground and get frags, instead of all going sniper then sitting back like some cod sniper duel, cause that's what takes the most skill RIGHT?????
Not him but Overwatch forces teamwork because it's like comparing level design from Call of Duty to Doom.
It's a fucking corridor and nothing you do will change the outcome of them dying in a kill box or you dying from something else. Alternatively you'd die in any number of situations and locations because there is freedom of movement.
Overwatch is designed solely around a linear attack/defend playstyle of pushing the meat grinder before it rips off your arms. TF2 is designed with a focus on a specific style of helping or hindering someone, and I mean very specific. Admittedly this design went to shit a little bit as time went on (a lot more than just pyro can put out fires, or provide some healing). This favours no particular game mode.
If Valve actually ever gave a shit, TF2 could have been even greater. You'd see your normal 6s catered to to fix what little imperfections may remain, but you could also see something like Dustbowl remixed to be more opened up, to allow multiple avenues of attack, and split a 12 player team into smaller groups focusing on locking down parts of the map, or subverting those teams. Splitting TF2 into casual and comp while keeping things almost the same isn't good enough to overcome it's problems, it would require a more invested approach to giving both playing with randoms and playing competitive worthwhile.
No shit you need teamplay in TF2, wasn't even close to what I was getting at.
The overabundance of heals and shields in OW, along with the basic-as-fuck/slow movement and slow killtimes mean that 90% of the game is positioning with your team (and ult management, barf), which sounds nice in THEORY but goes out the window once you consider that literally any fucking game with a team will inherently have this, such as TF2.
Oh I figured as much, I just wanted to see him attempt to make sense of his illogical argument, people in Overwatch can still carry as well, it's hard in high levels of comp and teams with 1 really good player that the team puts most of it's weight on one good player don't ever make it as far, but that's how it should be.
>this guy desperate to make sniper viable on every map so he isn't restricted to camping ramparts only on 2fort
dude you are fucking useless
overwatch map design pisses me off
its basically just 1 choke
not even flanks
so most maps are a long spamfest until you get through, and you dont even have uber to do this
King's Row is so fucking bad compared to any TF2 map
>class based game is imbalanced
Gee, no fucking shit? Wanting every class to perform equally at every range is equal parts boring and pointless.
Siege does it pretty well, and that game is easily the best shooter on the market
>It's attack/defend
>but where's the cp?
>Where we're going, we don't need conventional objectives
I should have played more TF2 back in the day, I regret it now and will so for some time.
So what? You want class homogenisation? You want every class to be the same and have the same strengths? Why even have classes at all then? Give every character the same weapons as every other character, the same speed, the same health. Oh look we just made Quake.