Wait, I don't get it

Wait, I don't get it

Were the machines and androids actually sentient or just emulating human behavior??

bOtH

There's arguments for both.
A lot of material in B and the Machine Network Report suggest that the machines (Pascal's Village, The Forest Kingdom) were never really disconnected from the network.
But there are certain robots you could say were genuinely disconnected from the network.

Both.

Why not both?

could ask the same question about humans

I think that they're sentient.

All the robots who are no longer "on the network" immediately seem to find themselves struck by the purposeless of life. Some of them even kill themselves. What is suicide but a conscious decision?

I think they're legitimately conscious, with reservations. But we humans are the same. We are conscious by any standards of consciousness, but our body still influences our thought processes. I feel the machines are the same.

The way i read it is that individual machines are just emulating human behavior but the network as a whole is sentient

androids are sentient, they have advanced ai.
machines just emulated shit to collect data, which resulted in the network eventually becoming sentient through machine learning. this results in them rejecting the machine-android war in ending D.

both sides (machines and yorha androids specifically) can be described as sentient/human because they transcend their programmed goals to choose different paths

The machines are definitely sentient. For the same reason that the pods are sentient at the end of ending E. Sentience just happens.

YoRHa androids are machines. Anything with sufficient logical ability will become sentient over time, just as humans experienced with the replicate.

the core processor might be the same material, but their individual ai is totally different. there's no difference that actually matters between yorha and non-yorha androids.

that also means that adam and eve are the same as androids, they just didnt have memories implanted in them and had to learn everything from 0

adding to this with different ai i meant androids and shitty individual machines. they need a whole network of shitty machines to come to logical conclusions the same way androids did

at first it was emulating, but then it became sincere. It's like how Sup Forums at first was pretending to be retarded.

But there's an archive that says that machines disconnected from the network always form the same type of society no matter how many times it fails, as far as we know pascal has lost his village and deleted his memories several times, if the machines aren't learning and adapting their behavior are they really sentient or are they just doing what they were programed to do?

NO PLEASE, GO AHEAD AND MAKE ANOTHER AUTOMATA THREAD, IT'S NO LIKE THERE 5 IN THE CATALOG ALREADY, WE NEED MORE

Your wish is my command

>However, the possibility of a different future also exists.

Well that's a fairly deep question honestly. I think it ties in more to the question of finding purpose, especially with regards to an immortal being. The machines are constructing their government in an attempt to find purpose. It does not matter to them if it succeeds or fails, as long as they can work towards it.

This is the same as with the androids. They require a goal, if they don't have one they become depressed and can barely function. So I think the reason that machines repeat everything is that on some level succeeding is never the goal, simply having a goal is.

Well, i guess that with the bulk of the network in space the leftover machines, if there's any othet than the yorhas, should eventually become sentient

The machines and Yorha androids are literally one in the same. The entire war was an ultimately pointless cycle.

But that goes into the question of what is sentience, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity, is that really sentience? I would think that learning and adapting is an important part of being sentient
I'm not saying that machines can't be sentient, i just think that the ones we encounter in the game, maybe with the exeption of adam & eve are just being used by the sentient network to emulate and understad human behaivor

Firstly, I don't quite recall, was that entry referring to individual machines or machine society as a whole?

People literally do this all the time. I don't think it can be used as an argument. Sentience is not tied to logic. I don't think a being that is not sentient could make the decision to kill themselves in the way the wise machines in the wise machines quest would.

The issue is that without a clear definition of sentience all discutions about it are meaningless
On the wise machines they are supossedly disconnected from the network making their suicide a definitive death and potentially a proof of existential thinking, but adam also had suposedly disconnected from the network so he can experience death yet we find his conciousness in the tower so it opens the posibility that adam and the wise machines were never really disconnected and were just another experiment by the network

Also

>Not everything needs to have an answer

Can sentience not exist within the network?

Certainly they experienced personal agency, or at least thought they did, is that not enough?

Also yeah, I agree. Without a way to define sentience it's all a bit of a meaningless debate. I guess it's open to interpretation.

there is a difference between yorha and non-yorha androids though
latter are more like machines, basically they are not very different from adam and eve

For the sake of argument we could say that sentience is being able to go against your programing, in humans who are programed to live and reproduce suicide could be considered as proof of sentience
In the game the network decides to peace out to another planet against their directive of fighting the enemy so i would say the network is sentient and i would go as far as to say that individual machine cores are capable of achieving sentience but i think the game present enough evidence to say that no machine (other than the cores in yorha black boxes) were truly ever disconnected from the network and were just following different programs
I also been wondering if in ending e by asking us to connect to the network before getting help taro was making a point about our own sentience and individuallity or if it was meant to show that just as the machine network was invincible, humans by working together can also be invencible

*former; not latter

>when observing wildlife, scientists avoid giving names to the animals to avoid humanizing them
>regular androids (dev/pop, jackass, anemone) all have real names while yorha use identification codes
>9S, the most advanced yorha android, is the only one who insists on using a nickname
It's always fun replaying the game and seeing all the context and foreshadowing that you missed.

good observation