So, I just got platinum in NieR:A, but I still have some questions, so let's discuss.
SPOILERS
So we learned that Devola and Popola sent the data from the failed Gestalt project to the moon, so since gestalts are basically human clones, why didn´t YorHa actually use that data to regrow humanity? Instead of creating a self destroying organization they could've salvaged the data from the gestalts and have humanity, or at least something almost identical to it, back on it's tracks. Also on that note, how come the replicants just died off? that doesn´t make any sense, and what about kaine, what happened to her?. I fell like I'm gonna have to replay NieR because I must have missed something.
Replicants are like any other machine. They're either a benefit or a hazard. If they're a benefit, it's not my problem.
Blake Nguyen
What I can gather is that you need a full on human being to make a replicant or a gestalt, so having the data about the project is useless when there's no more humans around. I highly doubt there'd be any actual human DNA or tissues left on the moon either to "grow" a test tube baby or something
Owen Thompson
If i'm remebering right, It is Said that replicants dont actually have souls, only consciousness.
Cooper Rogers
Well, the data they sent must have had some DNA samples, c'mon it's the first thing to collect when researching something
Christian Scott
by the time anything was sent to the moon, all the humans were fucked. I doubt there was any DNA left to even send
Aiden Mitchell
Will new humanity die from white chrloronation syndrome if androids remake them?
Charles Jenkins
speaking of that, how come humanity didn´t have a safeguard against total extinction like a fucking vault full of dna samples from all over the world?. When the WC started the first thing they should've done was to secure that shit.
Matthew Roberts
I don´t think so, the disase started because magic seeped into the world or something like that, but there's no trace of magic in NieR automata so I guess it died off
Samuel Rodriguez
No. WCS was eradicated.
Matthew Butler
>by the time anything was sent to the moon, all the humans were fucked. I doubt there was any DNA left to even send
It's not like they were instafucked, they developed all those projects you see in first Nier and had shit ton of time to make an ark with all their information like genome, DNA and RNA.
Josiah Russell
>I don´t think so, the disase started because magic seeped into the world or something like that, but there's no trace of magic in NieR automata so I guess it died off
There's no trace because all humans died.
White chloronation syndrome forced people to make a contract with a God and become his slave or die if he refuses.
Easton Green
No. The corrupt meso that causes it was all gathered and sent back to the watchers dimension.
David Roberts
Actually, all of the Replicants cleaned up the Maso causing WCS in prep for humans coming back (which never happened of course)
Blake Butler
>There's no trace because all humans died. No. WCS died out because the androids kept the war going against the legion along with replicants. And they won out in the end.
Cameron Allen
I've got a question, how come command didn't do anything or even know when the Yohra in the city lost contact? 2B and 9S had to go there personally and even then they were doubting them.
Ryan Ward
>I've got a question, how come command didn't do anything or even know when the Yohra in the city lost contact?
Because N2 used the backdoor to send command false signals giving them the all clear and faking them into believing the battle was going in their favor
Angel Jackson
>there's no trace of magic in NieR automata It's all interwoven with technology. How else would pods project be pseudo-telekinetic and project a seat for something as mundane as fishing. There's a bunch of magic text appearing when using certain pod programs, too. They had 9000 years to figure this out.
Landon Davis
Oh I see, how did I miss that.
Jonathan Flores
Your were probably trying to talk to the commander and missed all the action happening in the background. It only shows it for two or so seconds but the screen in the command room are showing that most of the yorha units are alive and well.
Brandon Gomez
Can someone explain how YorHa even came about, and what the fuck it's even supposed to be doing? I feel like I'm still missing massive swaths of information. Like, was the earth even invaded by aliens? I'm not even 100% sure THAT happened.
Ayden Bailey
what the hell, who is N2?. I just beat branch D and don´t remember that
Jacob King
The aliens did indeed invade, Emil talks a lot about how he fought them off. as for Yorha, I think it was all just a proxy for the machines (N2) to evolve. I'm not sure though.
Joshua Butler
>just a proxy for the machines (N2) to evolve No
Logan Rodriguez
Humans die out. Androids low on morale. "Don't worry guys, there's humans on the moon" Aliens come. Wars. Android command makes Yorha.
Leo Long
yeaht, see that's what I'm talking about. Why didn´t they instruct the androids to use that to rebuild humanity when it was safe again?
Wyatt Watson
Earth was invaded by aliens, and the androids were losing the war. When the last of humans (replicants/gestalts) died out, android morale hit an all time low. In order to counter this Yorha was eventually created by the android iluminati to perpetuate the lie that mankind was still alive and give androids something worth fighting for.
Hudson Lee
why are all yohra units useless outside of 2b and 9s
Carson Price
YorHa was created with a single purpose: To free the androids from the cicle of death and destruction. The main objective of YorHa was to erradicate all androids, thus freeing them. Since they cannot self terminate and must live with the pain of fighting for a lost cause without even knowing why YorHa was created, the backdoor and all that was to eventually "free" all the androids.
Nathaniel Ortiz
The machine networks AI. It's those two two hologram girls you meet in the tower and the same ones A2 fights later on.
Evan Cooper
N2 exploited Yorha, but he had no part in its creation.
Austin Campbell
Holy headcannon
Easton Murphy
because they are not the protagonists dummy, but seriously 2B(2E) was a top of the line unit and the 9S series was soo good at their job that YorHa literally needs to kill them off pretty good.
Owen Morris
What the hell are you talking about? Yorha was created to give androids something to fight for. the only thing the backdoor was created for was to destroy Yorha once their job was complete, and erase any proof that humans are dead. Additionally Yorha androids, unlike the rest of androids, are powered by machine cores, they were designed from the ground up as disposable
Camden Kelly
well sorry, that was what I got beyond just giving them something to fight for
Mason Martinez
what about the resistance members? Are they included in the plan to be killed off too?
Owen Lopez
Nope. They're not YoRHa.
Nathan Butler
WAIT A SECOND, if nobody knows that humanity is dead how come devola and popola are bullied throughout the whole planet for killing them off? something doesn´t add up.
Angel Scott
No user. They're bring blamed for the failure of project Gestalt.
Samuel Bailey
It changed from humanity dying out to humanity almost dying out and the failure of Project Gestalt.
Liam Lopez
but project gestalt was directly tied to humanity survival
Owen Cox
>there's no trace of magic in NieR automata The Pod programs are magic. Angelic letters appear when you use them.
Brody Wood
so how come robots can use magic then?, in drakengard it works through the lifeforce of the person.
Matthew Campbell
During the legion wars yes. Once the corrupt Maso was gathered and disposed of project gestalt was no longer necessary. In theory humanity could have began re-populating safely afterwards if not for the ayy lmao invasion.
Ethan Jackson
Magic in Nier was reverse engineered from Angelus and the Queen Beast's maso particles, then incorporated into technology. So it's like magitek.
Cooper Russell
Probably because they have life force. Androids think of themselves as people, so it's plausible, considering A2 or others call machines to be heartless or soulless (as opposed to themselves), so unless ALL androids are extreme hypocrites, they consider themselves to have hearts or souls.
Henry Williams
I keep forgeting about all the bullshit pre-NieR stuff like red eyes and maso fuckery and machine+humans wrecking shit left and right
Landon Foster
>if not for the ayy lmao invasion. They were already extinct by then.
Asher Rivera
Yes, but only the commander in the bunker knew that. As far as everyone else knew there was survivors on the moon.
Asher Russell
Ah, didn't know you were speaking from the point of view from the majority of androids.
Christian Martin
Everyone in the first NIER who used magic was a robot.
Logan Miller
>yfw you realize the original Nier stole the plot from Kingdom Hearts Gestalt are Heartless and Replicants are Nobodies.
David Sanchez
I want 2B to 2Brap on my face
Ayden Brooks
NieR lore threads are so civil it's so strange.
Jace Kelly
Is it ever explained why some of the machines not on the network randomly go berserk and start eating other machines?
Daniel Gutierrez
I want you 2leave
Gavin Ramirez
You can view it as a mental breakdown when their logic crumble down from not understanding concepts Pascal thought them
Or they were never really disconnected from the network and N2 made them do that.
Nicholas Hall
The network implants certain traits into some machines. The machine calls these "treasures". The opera singer for example treasured beauty and heard by rumor it could be obtained by eating androids. Some cannibalize others out of some sort of misguided ideaalogy.
The ones that eat each other while still on the network was the result of either Eve or the resource recovery units telling them to
Matthew Russell
Shitposters moved onto Persona 5
Levi Sanders
Ah, I see. Thanks anons
Blake Morales
no
2bad
James Hughes
I'm like 90% away from beating the original Drakengard. I can't kill Furiae and I need to unlock a few more weapons so I can go through Chapter 13. How in the fuck do people do it? Dodging her goddamn blades every second, and the controls are so fucking shit that you can't lock onto her blades 'cause they're too goddamn close and the ``aim assist'' keeps trying to pull your aim away from the blades. My dragon is at ~800k now, and I have 300 HP. Can't last longer than a minute.
Chase Reed
Dodge the beam attacks. Get in your damage in the time before or after that when you can. When she uses her knife attacks lock on the blades only and ignore her since she can't be damaged during that attack. Multiple target lock is about the only way you can get the knives. (Hold down square, sweep over as many blades as you can) then release button when you got them all locked on to)
Eli Perez
So the game left me confused in regards to Devola and Popola. Was there only one set or were there a ton?
We're told that there were a ton of sets and since the one set from NieR fucked everything up, the remaining D&P units were seen as being just as much at fault and were persecuted for it.
However, in one of the stories involving them in the game, it implies that there was only ever a single Devola and Popola set (the ones from the first NieR) and as punishment for fucking everything up in NieR 1, they were rebooted and made to believe that they were being persecuted for something they didn't do and would forever feel residual guilt.
Essentially, they were made to believe they did nothing wrong so that those guilty feelings were made to be even worse.
I'll absolutely accept that I might have misread some of the text and accidentally created a headcanon, but I deleted my file for Ending E so I can't just go back and reread everything.
Could someone clear this up for me?
Xavier Perry
Easy enough to figure out how to do it, it's just ass actually doing it. There aren't any vertical dodge functions (besides moving up and down), so you can't actually hit her when you have to dodge those. The knife attacks are stupidly hard because the aim assist keeps interfering, and the unlock button doesn't even work half of the time. A lot of buttons get sticky in aerial missions, actually.
Lincoln Parker
So why the hell was Emil in that machine's head? Does this mean that all machine heads have Emil heads in them? Are the machines where all the Emil clones went to? This picture seen in his flashback seems to suggest this.
Carter Martin
No.
he disguised himself as a machine to protect the lunar tears below the shopping facility but then forgot why he was there and began living as a machine
Austin Morgan
Are you accelerating before you try to dodge? it makes moving/doging much faster.
Also, the aiming is complete wank which is why it's considered one of the toughest boss battles of the series. Next to the song battles of course.
Daniel Murphy
So what the fuck were the Andoids doing for thousands of years? The machines seem pretty pathetic, they were really able to last through 14 fucking machine wars without getting wiped out?
Jaxon Barnes
There were a set of Dev and Pops for every region. I don't remember when exactly, but when talking about the Devola and Popola from the first NeiR, they refer to them as being from another city. Most Devola and Popola models were wiped out by other androids, so the Devola and Popola in Automata might be one of the few pairs still around.
Jace Clark
Is that a theory or is it ever explicitly stated somewhere?
Tyler Gray
They're the last pair and they're kept alive more or less as a lesson and reminder for the other androids.
Tyler Gray
There were tons of twin sets. A number of twin sets fucked up. It may even be all but one set of twins. All twins' memories were deleted and guilt added. The Popola and Devola in the VN section seemed to not be a pair who fucked up. It's unsure if they are the same twins as in Automata. (Memories were deleted, but 9S/The Player received the data somehow?)
Although, these are subjective still, I have a feeling that no twin sets fucked up at all, and it's just the misfortune of the project and replicants getting consciousness is what doomed it.
Luis Morgan
The machines have the upper hand in the war. They could've wiped out the androids whenever they wanted but a key logic error prevented them from doing that.
Mason Gonzalez
He kind of hints towards it during his lunar tear scene. It's not outright said, however, he does state he was protecting the flowers but forgot why. Which would explain why he was trying to fight you, the fact he disguised himself as a machine is still up in the air though.
Joseph Hall
How? They were pathetic little stubbies who were just fucking around. It makes the androids look really, really shitty.
Cameron Powell
It explain why in the game.
Gabriel Butler
Numbers matter and the machines evolve much faster than the androids combat wise. But of course this doesn't matter to the protagonists. But looking at at sidequests and seeing how the Pearl Harbor Decent mission and Operation Berlin turned out shows the clear superiority of the machines.
Joseph Sullivan
The other user is incorrect. Machines purposely did not win the war because they were built with the goal to kill the enemy. If the enemy is dead, what do they now? To circumvent this, the network decided to keep the androids alive as a way for the machines to evolve past their intended purpose. In turn, androids continue to have a reason to keep fighting and to similarly evolve using the combat data collected. Basically the whole war is pointless, but both sides believe it's necessary to give their respective lifeforms purpose.
Elijah Martinez
So it's 100% certain that that there were tons of D&P sets. Okay.
So if I'm understanding correctly, NieR 1 happens with Papa/Brother killing the Shadowlord and dooming humanity. The androids blame the Devola and Popola units from NieR 1 for this, but that turns into hate for ALL D&P units.
However, the androids believe that SOME humans managed to escape to the moon before the whole Gestalt program went to shit and doomed everyone so they think D&P fucked up royally, but they don't think that D&P actually made humanity go extinct.
Still, any remaining sets of D&P had their major memories wiped and were pumped full of guilt so that they'd all be punished for the actions of NieR 1 D&P.
Again, sorry if I'm veering into headcanon or sounding like a moron. I'm just wanting to make sure I understand what actually happened in the plot before I hop in other Automata threads and unintentionally shit up the discussion.
Ryan Gray
I beat the game and I don't remember a single reason given for how the androids did so poorly against the machines when the ones we're fighting are pathetic until like 75% through the game (when they're clearly evolving and getting juiced up by the network).
See I thought that machines were trying to learn from the androids and surpass them. If they were already superior that makes no sense why the machines would keep the war going, as they won't advance by beating an inferior foe. You think they would want to wipe out the androids and get to work on moon travel.
Ethan Wilson
Man, have you seen how modular these fucking things are? They're super easy to mass-produce and as easy to improve. They're adaptive in combat; it might be that androids are keeping up with them with just sheer tech. There's been 14 machine wars, can you imagine how recent the invention of a Pod might be? The songstress boss is just one machine customizing itself; and not for a combat purpose. Going from a stubby to small biped is just swapping limbs. Going from a small biped to medium biped is one wider lower body segment and swapping limbs. Modular as fuck.
Kayden Edwards
Basically, yes. But there's only one set of D&P left. There were actually humans that survived the gestalt project collapse and managed to re-combine with their souls but they were so rare it was basically impossible to maintain a long term population. The big lie is that enough did manage to survive to make it to the moon, whereas we all know different. But yes, the fact the project failed in the first place was put entirely in D&P shoulders. It was easier to blame them then admit their precious humans did something that was doomed to fail from the start.
Isaac Sullivan
No, the androids around during Project Gestalt knew 100% that humans were dead, which is why project YoRHa was created, to cover up the truth. Humans technically have been extinct hundreds of year before the events of the first NieR, as Replicants and Gestalts are not fully human. The reason why they blame Dev/Pop was because data about Nier was wiped from history, leaving them next in line to take the fall.
Tyler Torres
>I beat the game and I don't remember a single reason given for how the androids did so poorly against the machines when the ones we're fighting are pathetic until like 75% through the game (when they're clearly evolving and getting juiced up by the network).
Jackass gives you a report at the ending of C that clearly spells it out user, i don't know what to say if you didn't bother to read it.
Blake Evans
Dodging isn't really the issue so much as getting back on target
Liam Lopez
Oh, that explains it. I got ending D, went back and picked ending C, and then went into ending E and wiped my save. So I never read any Joker report.
Nolan Lopez
A2 is a cute! CUTE!
Easton Kelly
None of the other androids outside of gestalt knew truth about what caused to project to collapse. And by the events of automata they were all dead. As far as the rest of the androids know humanity is struggling to survivw on the moon and their near extinction is popola and devola's fault.
Leo Brooks
>See I thought that machines were trying to learn from the androids and surpass them. No. Keeping around androids to further their evolution was only an extremely recent development in the machine network thanks to them intentionally sabotaging their own network. Their main objective the last 14 machine wars was to not wipe out the androids in order to keep having a reason to exist.
Christopher Roberts
So I just got my first major fr drop in the game despite the steam mod. Did it happen with anyone else when fighting simone when she hacks you the first time and then all the corpses do an explosion? When they did it all at once my comp slowed down but killing them returned the fight to normal. Will I be affected later on too?
Josiah Lewis
>There's only one set of D&P left Ah, okay! I think that actually explains where part of my confusion came from. If I'm remembering correctly, there's a line in the D&P story that says something like "There is only one set [of Devola and Popola]," which was saying there was only one left, but instead I read it as if it was saying there was never more than a single Devola and a single Popola at any point in history.
Okay, now everything is making sense. Thanks a lot, anons!
You need to take advantage of accelerate to get back on target (the x button) Like i said it's a complete pain in the ass but it is doable. It's widely considered to be the second most annoying fight of the entire series, unless you're using everything to its full extent you're not going to win it. There aren't any special tricks or tips for winning that fight, just luck and a ton of practice.
Josiah James
Because the androids didn't understand how fucked everything was. Devola and Popola were isolated androids to each village. The ones we find in Nier:Automata kept thinking "it's just OUR village that's being affected" so they left had to leave to inspect other places to find out. The communication system was terrible in that regard. So you have to think in lines of that, isolated areas got wiped one by one without them realizing it was a global phenomenon.
Then again stated in Nier:Automata which answers It was too late once they realized what happened. The commander says so when things go to shit in the game. They saved what information they could but it wasn't enough to be able to rebuild anything. So they sent whatever scraps they scrounged up to the moon.
Humanity is dead. They can't rebuild it because they never saved the genetic information properly. Androids are kind of assholes in that regard for destroying machines. But machines are lunatics so..
Kayden Long
Am I supposed to do something for 9S's ending in between killing Eve and getting choked by 2B? Because they're both just standing there. I replayed from my last save because I thought it glitched but the same thing happened twice.
Jeremiah Morgan
...
Jonathan Howard
Walk up to him.
Angel Bennett
Where are people getting this 14 number of machines wars bit?
I don't remember reading anything like that, though I also haven't gotten all the archive information yet.