What exactly makes this better than USFIV or SSF2 Turbo again?

What exactly makes this better than USFIV or SSF2 Turbo again?

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Personally I enjoy it more than four due to the cleaner, more straight forward gameplay, which I think is exemplified by the parry system. Simply a lot less fluff to keep track of.

Can't really comment on super turbo, it was before my time

parries

the mere existence of them in this game makes it so your approach in most situations have to different

In SF4 you can poke using the same safe normals because there is no way to stop it unless you commit to something

In SF5 you can just throw buttons out in hopes of a CH or CC. And hope your frame traps work so you don't getting CC'd yourself.

SF3 makes it so you have to carefully choose what you want to approach with and constantly fuck with your timings. Cuz a single parry can end up you eating a super and losing half your life. And unlike SF5, 3S doesn't have crazy lag input so you can definitely whiff punish shit.

But because 3S works on the priority system, the way normals work is similar to SF5 at times. Characters like chun can just press buttons all day and beat out most normals. But because parries exist, its often the only thing that can help certain characters even punish chun.

In SF5 you can empty jump, because most AA's cost meter, are trash, or the input-lag doesn't allow for said reactions.

In 3S, AA's are risky because the jumping opponent can parry them.

Parries.

Too bad the balance is horrendous and makes chn and yun dominate the game while other characters like twekve have no real tools to deal with most situations.

Being able to parry at any time also fucks with the balance a lot, it is neat but it does more harm than good.

It's okay. I like the mechanics but I don't like the cast that much and I dislike the balance.

I've given it some thought and have come up with ways to improve the parry system.
1. Remove air parries (but keep anti air parries)
2. Make parrying fireballs have pushback

ST is a really fun game, but it's kind of a mess.
SF4's system mechanics(focus, ultra, fadc) and the designed gameplan, that could result into a vortex, made for a frustrating experience alot of times.

Just by not being janky or having SF4 mechanics, it's better. At it's core, it's a very well made fighting game.
But it's hard to explain to anyone who hasn't played it. It takes a while to understand 3s. It's a very different game.

I wouldn't mind if they brought back parries in that way in SF6, as long as they don't add stupid recovery, they don't remove high/low parry or make it 2 buttons.
And only as long as SF6 wasn't designed to appeal to streaming audiences instead of players, like SFV is.

>But because 3S works on the priority system, the way normals work is similar to SF5 at times.

There's no such thing as a "priority system" on normals. Not in 3S or any SF game

What is called "priority" is the property of a normal to beat or lose to another due to the shape of their hitboxes (roughly assumed that they're both being used at the same time). It's not a hard-coded system, and an attack that "has priority" over another might lose the trade after a single frame passes, because its hitbox became less favorable

It doesn't? At least compared to SSF2 Turbo it doesn't.

parry and speed

dashing is simply fun

It doesn't what?

They why does a -3 frame trap consisting of two mediums beat a 3 frame light in SFV
But loses to one in SF4

SFXT is the best SF game honestly

This, a priority system would be like in Soul Calibur where Verticals Crush Horizontals. 3S just has hitboxes.

I'm saying SF3:3S isn't better than SSF2 Turbo. I don't know why anyone would think that, SSF2 Turbo despite it's randomness in the game engine is fairly well balanced overall.

I really like how it feels.

Not too fond on how they developed some mechanics (meter building with whiffing normals, too many ToDs), but in terms of art direction and general feeling the game is the best SF game.

This said, I would say it's only better than USFIV for sure. ST comes pretty close.

Dimps Fighters feel very floaty and slow in comparison. The way hitstops last and how not really hard hitting they feel makes them a tad bit boring.

You're probably not counting startup, or discounting input delay as startup (i.e. when there's no hitbox active)

There is no rock/paper/scissor to the actual punch and kick strengths in SF. A jab is not guaranteed to always beat a medium (or vice versa), and aphorisms like "in 3S, Chun Li's back+HP always beat Urien's s.MK" can be subverted if Urien staggers his MK usage just a little

youtube.com/watch?v=jSzPbO9DFcg

Every matchup is a theoretical 5-5 due to the parry system. The combo system is amazing and it allows for a lot of free form expressive stuff. It's also probably the most honest fighting game out there, since it's almost entirely footsies.

>Too many ToDs
SA2 Makoto is the only ToD in the game, and only on lower health/stun characters. She can't ToD Dudley.

If you mean Supers do too much damage, and some characters have 30-40% combos, then sure.

>Every matchup is a theoretical 5-5 due to the parry system.

What? Tier lists by top players take into account the possibility both players can parry and they're far from 5/5

Might as well say "blocking theoretically makes every matchup even"

>Every matchup is a theoretical 5-5 due to the parry system

Things retards say.

Guess parrying doesn't make thing balanced. Some characters how a lot of stuff that can be parry on reaction like Hugo which really hurts them, some characters get a much bigger reward for the same successful parry.

It's as retarded as saying every matchup with a character who has a reversal is 5-5 because you can just reversal everything.

>SA2 Makoto is the only ToD in the game

Oro BALLZ pseudo-infinite is enough to kill weaker characters too. Same with certain Denjin setups

3s and SFV ACTUALLY DO have priority systems. Normals of different strengths CANNOT trade in either game, the higher strength one will simply win.

Source: am bafael. AMA about 3s

>blocking theoretically makes every matchup even

>what is chip damage, unblockables and throws


Unblockables don't count. regardless he's an idiot. there are lots of 100% combos without unblockables they are just situational.

>Every matchup is a theoretical 5-5 due to the parry system

whoa boy, we got a retard in the thread

You might have to look up how matchups work there kiddo. Then come back when you've actually played 3S with some competent players .

>the higher strength one will simply win

That's bullshit

Source: Stuffing Alex's HK or forward+MP with a jab

Hi baf, why isn't Rolento in 3S?

That isn't a situation where they would trade

Why are you posing on Sup Forums it makes you worse at videogames.

Every matchup is not a theoretical 5-5 due to the parry system. I don't know who filled your head with that garbage information.

Elena vs Twelve is such a garbage matchup for Twelve that even if he parried random normals of hers he still couldn't punish her..

Are you better than Jinrai

Parries can't avoid throws, so why isn't Hugo the S-tier character?

if you hit it before it becomes active you can interrupt it. But they cannot TRADE. Also I don't know where command normals fit into the mix but supers beat specials in trades, supers and specials beat heavies, supers specials and heavies beat mediums, and so on. Yun has perma "super" priority in genei jin which is why it's almost impossible to even invincible-DP your way out.

IDK I woulda liked him

I usually don't post in fighting game threads since Sup Forums is utterly trash at fighting games.

3S does not have a priority system outside of Yun's Genei Jin because it considers every attack of his as a super art hit when activated. That may be the ONLY exception in the entire game.

If what you said was even remotely true then Alex's Stun Gun Headbutt would not be interrupted by random Jab every time.

1. SFV
2. 3rd strike
3. USFIV
4. SSF2T
.
.
.
.
9001. SF1

>The combo system is amazing and it allows for a lot of free form expressive stuff

not really, it just knowing how to manipulate the juggle system which is always calculated and results in the same situation each time.

USF4 has the ability to roman cancel, and that actually allows you to do "optimal" and "stylish" combos galore.

>SF3
>the most honest fighting game out there

this has to be a troll

lol no

in 3s heavy normal>medium>light special beat normals, super beat specials and throws beat super

I don't know how good jinrai was in his prime but there's plenty of footage of me beating him nowadays. youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=NSyw0pHKKbM

Hrove is the only oro I've ever played who's better than me.

Do you know what a trade is? Hitting alex's stun gun isn't a trade, you're hitting him before the grab box appears. If you happened to hit him the same frame a grab box appeared he'd grab you, I think, since I think grabs take priority over hits in 3s (i'm not sure of this, it's true in SFV).

If you want proof of a priority system, get two characters point blank, have one use a -2 move then a 7f heavy, have the other use a 5f medium, if both are in range to hit the heavy will always win. However, if it's a 4f medium, the medium wins clean. Same frame connect, higher strength wins. That's priority, not hitboxes. SF3/SFV have it.

what do you guys think of this 2014 kuroda tier list?

tiers summarized with 5-5=0 +1/-1 for advantage/disadvantage

positive
chun +38.5
ken +28
yang/oro +10.5
urien +7.5
makoto +1
not positive
dudley -0.5
yun/akuma/elena -1
necro -1.5
ryu -2
ibuki -2.5
hugo -4.5
alex- 5.5
Q -6
remy -17
sean -21
twelve -37

SFV is good, but I wish it was more fun to play. Every loss is soul crushing, and I barely have fun pulling off something cool in a match because the opportunity to do so is smaller
have you ever been on /fgg/? You know you're their boy?

I like /fgg/ but I never post there either. I try to keep my ear to the ground everywhere to figure out what people are struggling with, so I just lurk there along with a million other places.

>elena that high

did i miss something?

i don't main her, im just curious how she is the same league as akuma and yun

wait.

>Yun is lower than yang

what in the fuck?

I know hes a 3S god, but wtf is this bullshit?

favorite KOF game?
rival schools or Sf ex?
better soundtrack: 3S or 2i

What would it take for you to play SFV competitively? I think you have a lot of potential

>going to /fgg/

god fuck that place in the ass

i used to frequent that place daily back in 2012

nothing but the same tripfags circlejerking for eternity

only good thing that came out of them is fightanvidya site

why the fuck is red parry timing 2 frames for normals and 3 for supers?

>bafael

i fucks with your mac n cheese pizza

now imma fatfuck

Lurking a general, truly this website has become something.

Bafeal unironically likes SFV and thinks it's a pretty good game.

he's retarded.

SHOTS FIRED

He's one of the first significant players to not significantly underrate oro that I'm aware of, but oro still has a few matchups that gatekeep him from tournaments, namely chun and ken.
Kuroda putting Elena on the same tier as Yun is utter heresy when you look at the results of every 3s tournament even up til today, but it "might be true" if you're playing on Kuroda's level. There's a bunch of other ridiculous matchup listings like Chun-Yun being 6-4 (and not the classic 3-7) and makoto-Q being 4-6 (and not 2-8).

It's important to remember I'm a nobody and my opinions don't matter, so IDK why you're asking this, but
>KoF13 to play, KoF11 to watch
>SFEX free
>3s I guess but the best tracks of 2i are pretty great
I don't travel so I will literally never be competitive except for online, and I've never had a passion for any SF game except sf3. I'm only as good as I am cuz I play a lot of other good players who just casually associate with me.
:] sorry
ouch. I'll explain why I like SFV if you care though.

A lot of the tripfags arent there any longer. The few prominent ones are
A raging homosexual that everyone ignores because he rarely plays (Chariot)
Anti-capcom player who insists upon talking about capcom games, also doesn't play (dank)

It's better than super turdbo but it wouldn't have become so "popular" if it wasn't for 09ers hearing guys like Gootecks talk about the "3S days" and EVO Moment #37.

It doesn't have any neutral and it's incredibly unbalanced.

dank isn't an actual guy, he gave his tripcode out after being exposed as someone who actually likes SF V

people just use the dank trip to shitpost

/vg/ has been around that long already?

I think this kuroda tier list may be his personal skill list?

I know he's known for having a wired footsie based Yun that isn't very good compared to his other characters.

I understand why he put Elena there because Elena is basically Chun with the same Crouch Forward Kick > SA2 shenanigans except she doesn't do absurd damage with her own SA2. She is not an easy to use character but has great tools.

Elena also has fantastic normals but she's not like Chun who can spam B+Fierce to beat 80% of things and get meter.

>I'll explain why I like SFV if you care though.
I care, I'm interested to know what makes it better than IV. I mainly play it with my normie friends so am not that interested in online competitive. I'm also looking forward to USFII

Friendly reminder that Hyper Fighting is the best Fighting game of all time even with the randomization and mediocre balance. No other game let's you be consistent.

Jeff schaffer was right about everything

>I understand why he put Elena there because Elena is basically Chun with the same Crouch Forward Kick > SA2 shenanigans except she doesn't do absurd damage with her own SA2. She is not an easy to use character but has great tools.

Elena's super cancellable sweep is cr. MP, not MK

And it's far inferior to Chun's due to being much harder to confirm into on reaction

Whoa
meta posting

>Do you know what a trade is? Hitting alex's stun gun isn't a trade, you're hitting him before the grab box appears. If you happened to hit him the same frame a grab box appeared he'd grab you, I think, since I think grabs take priority over hits in 3s

That's incorrect. If there's an existing active attack box out on the same frame Stun Gun does not grab. Also grabs do not take priority of hits in 3S due to a priority system. Grabs only take priority over hits or supers for that matter that have more than a 3 frame startup where the invincibility does. Notable examples being SA1 with Ken and SA1 with Hugo.

It could just be that this is a character specific flaw with Alex in the game engine too.

Nothing is safe in neutral for SF4 even without meter thanks to focus. Yes you can effectively focus lights with a lot of the cast

They are not hitting on the same active frames, retard.

Why does USF2 exist when we can get a SF3 with all stages, all versions of characters, and a rebalance? I want USF3
Same with SFxT. It's so close to being perfect goddammit

Yeah that's the one, it's Crouch MP. Been a long time since I played this. Also it's really not that much harder to confirm into reaction but the window is shorter yes. I'm always buffering the motion everytime I stick it out anyway.

Street Fighter V is a shallow game with no competitive merit. No amount of mildly clever character balance will change that. The game takes no skill. Apoc is right.

I think this is probably true to a degree. Tominaga is an excellent makoto and I think Kuroda won the ft10 set using Q, and if you watch the set you can see Kuroda had a way of avoiding mixups pretty well even once he's cornered by the way he parries and jumps, but no other Q can make that matchup look remotely good for Q.

Elena is similar to chun in gameplay but her confirm is off low MP instead of low MK, and it's a much harder confirm than chun's into a worse super (doesn't lead to a 50/50). Elena's normals are still dominant, but not as dominant, and her low/overhead mixup is better but overheads AND lows for her don't lead to much damage.

The main problem with chun is her super confirm forces you to block/parry low a lot, which opens you up to a lot of kara throws. With elena you can stand block the cr. MP which lets you also walk out of kara throw range. It's just not as strong/pure a mixup. I think chun's kara throw goes farther too.
Let me respond to this in my upcoming post

>There's no such thing as a "priority system" on normals. Not in 3S or any SF game
SF5 literally has a priority system though

if two normals hit each other on the exact same active frame the heavier normal will win, it was described as a feature right before the first beta.

>not understanding what USF3 would do to the community

yeah cuz it worked wonders for HD remix.

the game will be panned just for being different and will split the community

no real point. And as we all learned years ago. The fgc doesn't like 3S, or else that shit would've blown up like Melee did.

How big a buff do you think the Vega changes are?

Personally I think they just added extra damage again without fixing some of the issues that make him struggle.

It has competitive merit, it's simply not that fun to play
that's it.

>Also it's really not that much harder to confirm into reaction but the window is shorter yes.

It's hard enough that it goes from "anyone can do it" (Chun's cancel into SA2 on reaction) to "all but impossible to cancel into after you see it hit", which only a small minority of people claim to be able to and it's shady and fraudulent as it seems like they're just finishing the motion regardless if the enemy blocks or not (Ken's cr. MK into SA3)

It has no competitive merit because it takes no skill. They removed all skill barriers and strategy is shallow.

It's alpha 1.5. and alpha 2 has dubious competitive merit.

>In 3S, AA's are risky because the jumping opponent can parry them.
And this is why Third Strike is behind 4 in my list of favourite street fighters. If you jump at me without thinking or I bait you into jumping you should get punished. I hate that there is an out from making that mistake and that simply jumping is a mixup in itself, fucks the neutral game right up.

Yes it's MP not MK, it has been a long time since I touched the game. Also yes Chun has the highest Kara throw range in the game, Q has the most if I recall. However Elena can use B+Roundhouse to beat a lot of throws/kara throw attempts and has some of the greatest overheads in the game, not quite Dudley level overheads but still fast and hard to discern.

I know I'm in the minority but I really liked that Capcom stepped away from most of their roster and created a mostly new cast of weirdos.

Also the parry system is the best to date. It allowed for amazing skill based come backs that were incredibly entertaining to watch.

I wish 3s was spun off into its own series that had a chance of being revisited someday.

I think you can hit confirm ken SAIII on reaction if you are good, but i'd say only on a crouching opponent, and only on arcade which is slower than OE or fightcade.

>he doesn't know how to AA in 3s

scrub. Jumping is worse in 4 due to all the ambiguous crossups.

First, I wanna say that SFV was basically tailor made for people like me, the kind of grimey tourneyfags who only care about gameplay. I don't care about 90% of the horrible infrastructure SFV has which most people care about. I can't imagine playing SFV single player so IDK why people are so fussed about no arcade mode. Colors are cosmetic and they're nice but I never cared enough to unlock them in survival beyond a couple for my main and I did it pretty easily.

The main stuff I did in SF4 was play online ranked, online endless lobbies, and test things or make videos in training mode. SFV has a slower ranked and worse connections in general so that's a bit of a hit, but endless is fine and the matches are more continuous since you can set endless to ft10 or w/e.

In terms of mechanics, I love the crush counter system a lot and how it feels to fish for and score a crush counter, and I like counterhit punishable DPs since your CC punish combos are a good way to show off your optimization while not being THAT much stronger than normal punishes. I come from SF3 so I'm really used to overwhelming and aggressive offense. I love the input buffering system since it removes 1f links (I could hit them but now I'm consistent, IMO 1f links add nothing strategically to the game and just add random chance of failure, even pros drop 1f links occasionally). Most of the characters are simplified in a way that encourages strategy and allows for easier execution so I can play characters who were previously off limits to me, plus most characters seem to be their "best of all worlds" versions like chun being a pastiche of SF3/SF4 chun's best features. So, combined with the input buffering, I can play a lot more characters at a high level.

Also a lot of my friends who have bad execution can now actually compete with me.

Basically almost everything different about SFV I like more. I kind of dislike the removal of invincible backdashes though, and I did like the focus.

I guess hard if you're going from a background of more lenient modern fighters for cancelling supers but if you're from the ST renda-cancelling where you're doing the motions mid-move/mid-combo it's not that difficult.

Elena actually doesn't have a very good throw range or a great kara throw range, her throw is just fast and it feels longer because of her walk speed.

Chun however has insane kara throw range, good throw range and fast walk speed. In addition to tools like OS parry and her low forward super that give her more situations to use it. her kara throw is broken.

>Jumping is worse in 4 due to all the ambiguous crossups.
no because I can anti-air them 100% of the time if I'm looking for it, unless they are a divekick character once they forward jump they will be anti aired.
>he doesn't know how to AA in 3s
>scrub
teach me the ways then master, I main Necro if it helps

I'm talking about canceling on reaction. If you can chain cancel in ST on reaction you have ~100ms reactions, which are not the norm. Keep in mind in ST, 60f is 1000ms

...

It's a good buff and it gives him some cool new combos and a better capacity to pressure or fish for counter hits, but it's not what I was hoping for. I feel like claw on vega should have normals equal to chun at least. If I was fixing claw I woulda given him 2 roses for his v-trigger too. Kind of weird ibuki and urien get 2 bombs/mirrors but vega can't get 2 roses, especially since he can only ever combo one of the two into super.
I think vega's already alright against most characters, though, so with this buff I'm not sure he needs anymore. Just, as a former vega main, I don't like him in SFV as much, he's really not about what he used to be.
Even Elena's really good overheads are a single high parry, mallet smash is a reactable 2, and b+HK is one. Elena has a nice 33-33-33 but the opponent is rewarded signficantly more for parrying than Elena is for hitting. Chun can still mix up with a super if the opponent parries her cr. MK or whiff punish their parry fishing more easily with a late cr. MK, while neither take pretty much any risk with a kara throw. Elena just needs to guess right a lot more than her opponent does to win, because nothing leads to full combos from her except a parry. She has very few confirms into super for example, just a single cancellable normal with very little mixup potential.

game feel

>I wish 3s was spun off into its own series that had a chance of being revisited someday.

>implying 3s needs to be revisited
Nigger pick it up and play, this mentality is what kills any competition-driven game.
You're talking like 3s is post mortem, go to Japan and see how alive the game really is.

Necro has many viable AA options.
Just mix it up, catch your opponent off guard.

>baf against 1f links
>thinks sf5 got rid of 1f links and not all links

> I like sfv because it's more shallow and I can play more characters without having to actually be good

And the problems with 4 was shit like massive reversal windows, shortcuts, guesswork with crossups, rewarding you for playing poorly with ultras, retarded scaling etc.

1 frame links can only be seen as "bad" in a game based on ground combos instead of juggles because the risk reward is skewed. Fuck up a link on the ground and you'll likely get punished, fuck up a juggles and you usually just lose damage and a setup.


Street fighter V is a casual game. Fix the input delay and it can be fun for casual-mid tier players. But it has no place in a tournament setting.

3s does need to be revisited. It just needs a conservative patch. something like Mike Z recommend (but not exactly). It needs tweaks, not a new version with new characters and shit. I wouldn't trust capcom at all not to ruin something like that in every way.

I never said she had good throw ranges. I said she can BEAT quite a large plethora of Kara throws and regular throws with Back+RH because it's considered airborne.

How is 3rd strikes balance compared to SF2T and USFIV?

Huh well I guess in my old age my reactions are still good in an old ass fightan game from the 90's

>I'm really used to overwhelming and aggressive offense
I just wish SFV would either leanin to this better or pull it back. To pull off the overwhelming aggressiveness you need options so it doesn't feel so random at times.


Also how do you feel about Tekken and have you tried 7?

Other than a few outliers, Street Fighter execution is pretty similar among all pros. It was back then and it still is now. Most people can hit their 1f links most of the time. It's restrictive of beginners without adequately separating pros, so removing the execution barrier does nothing to pro scene yet helps the beginner scene (the vast majority of players) a lot.

> I like sfv because it's more shallow and I can play more characters without having to actually be good
This would be true if "good" means "has good execution" which is a misconception most people have early on. Who the best players are in SF has always been based on strategy rather than execution. Someone with great strategy and okay execution always wins against someone with an okay strategy and great execution
Also SFV is still based around ground combos and most specials/normals have been made dramatically worse on block, so 1f links would definitely still be bad.

Elena's overheads are longer range though and they just look like a large amount of her regular attacks because of her attack animations with lot of moves with the hands and the feet and whatnot. Also nobody uses Mallet Smash as an overhead, get out of here with that shit.

Somewhat better than SF2, much worse than USF4
I agree about more options being good. And I only play tekken very very casually.

As a filthy casual who will never make it out of SFV's rookie bracket, I just like 3rd Strike's aesthetics better. The hiphop undertones, the jazzy music, the gritty environments, the stylish and unique artstyle and characters all play into it being a unique and cool experience. I tried picking up SFIV and SFV, and neither of them can hold my interest at all because the aesthetics and design decisions all feel very 'safe'. The bulk of the returning characters are from SF2 because people liked SF2 and it's safe. The artstyle is a bland colorful Pixar-esque style because it's safe. The music is full of general rock remixes of old tracks, because it's safe. They don't take any chances with anything, and in the end the games are just aesthetically bland. TS FEELS like a true sequel to 2, because just about everything about it is new. SFV literally has you returning to past stages like the airfield because nostalgia is, again, safe.

Gameplay wise I like Third Strike better because it's faster. Even though I don't know what I'm doing, the footsie wiggle trying to outpoke your opponent doesn't happen as much in my experience. It's just you and a friend beating the shit out of each other, and that's what makes a fighting game fun at it's core.

I literally just said Elena's overhead/low mixup is better than chuns but her GOOD overheads are a single high parry and mallet smash is a reactable 2. Random guesswork beats Elena most of the time since her damage potential is so low, which is one of her big weaknesses. Mixing in lows/overheads at all is 30-50% for them if they parry you, 5% for you if you hit. I mash aggressive parries against Elena players all the time and get paid big dividends for it.

>there's an offline 3s scene where I live
>it's an hour away from me and I don't have a car or license
this is a hell I didn't know existed