>Archers are always wimpy ass elves and shit in video games
>Real archers were typically some of the strongest men in their army and were equipped and trained for melee combat too, swords were mandatory for English archers and many had polearms ready for melee combat
When will archers be made as cool as they really were?
Elves often have the same STR as humans, so this isn't an issue.
Never, they have to try and balance it somehow
>Big burly warrior man can't use a Bow, tiny sneaky thief queer can
>The archer is a women with twig like arms
>The bow is a Dex weapon
>The bow is a silent weapon
These memes need to die
Make them strong and but not overly quick in melee, and lightly armoured.
Done.
Learning the truth about archers gave me another reason to hate modern game design tropes.
>Real archers were typically some of the strongest men in their army
Only for pulling bows. Different muscle groups for different tasks. They may have had swords and polearms, but they didn't have as much training in those arms.
And these big burly men would get their ass cut by swordsmen, pikemen and knights.
There's no big difference.
>he brings arrows to a swordfight
fite me coward
Bullshit, that doesn't aplly to every army existed. There were archers dedicating themselfves to archery only like Cretan archers.
Arrows are useless against armors
Nice bow you have there. Would be a shame if some new technology would make it obsolete though....
*laughs in agincourt*
The opposite! The piercing power of arrows was their greatest strength
>crossbows
>ever being relevant
how about you forget your big bad shield again, fucker, and we'll see how much better your shitty crossbow is compared to my longbow.
fire rate beats punch every day of the week
Thats what the cheese eaters thought
>Crossbows making bows obsolete
Let's not get silly here. Crossbows did what they did well but bows are still much more versatile and effective war weapons.
>a weapon that literally got banned by the pope for being OP
>not relevant
lmao, I was ploughing wenches while you were training day in day out and I can STILL snipe you at a longer range after a few hours of practice
>what is the battle of agincourt
Play a Ranger in Dragons Dogma. Sinking 10 arrows at once into a fuckers skull is an amazing feeling.
The english didn't win at agincourt because arrows fired from longbows can penetrate armour. They can't. Agincourt is an example of defensible positions being incredibly useful and the french nobility being arrogant and dumb; not the superiority of the longbow vs. armour. Unless an archer is very lucky or incredibly skilled and hits an unarmoured weakspot, those arrows will just bounce off. The french got stuck in the mud and were easily captured or killed with swords and club.
You guys have no idea how strong plate armour is.
Agincourt was a victory for english because of muds, fatigue and overall retardation on the french side. Most knights were killed by footmen after they failed to reach english lines, not thanks to arrows.
The longbow is a meme
Yeah, but the pope banned slings and bows too. Basically, he didn't wanted peasants shooting down noblemen.
A peasant and a shitty axe are not a problem to a fully armored nobleman. A peasant and a crossbow is another different matter.
Crossbows require less training to use than bows and would be dangerous even in the hands of peasants. If I was a knight I would order every single peasant in my lands to own and train with a crossbow, just in case they are needed.
...
>platearmourfags still in denial
lol the english longbow can easily pierce plate armor, don't kid yourself.
bows actually require more strength to use than swords and other edgy weapons
Not sure what kind of longbow could, but I know a 120 pound one can't.
It required years of hard work and dedication to become decent with a longbow. It takes just minutes of instruction for someone to become effective with a crossbow to. After a few hours of practice someone with a crossbow can be nearly as effective with a crossbow as someone who trained years with a longbow. You could equip and instruct a dozen crossbowmen for every longbowman.
The slight advantage a bow has in range and power is vastly outweighed by the crossbow's ease of use.
>Il n'existe d'ailleurs aucun témoignage fiable d'un noble ayant été tué par une flèche anglaise (ni pour cette bataille ni dans une autre).
>There is no testimony about a noble being killed by an english arrow (in this battle [of Agincourt] or any other).
Overcompensation bow I'm telling you
can someone explain what bows should scale with
Bows shouldn't scale. They should have a base requirement of Strength that has to be met.
DEX or AGI, whatever you call it.
Perception
Those longbowman would be overall better trained warfighters due to their years of dedication required. There's a reason longbows and longbowmen stuck around.
Dwarf ranged units in Total Warhammer wear the exact same armour as their infantry, and carry the same weapons, just with an extra crossbow/gun. The basic elf archers are also competent melee and carry a sword.
That's all I can think of.
>not arming your peasants with guns instead of shitty bows
English longbows didn't advance with armor though. Quenched steel plate came after longbows reached their peak. Handgonnes and arquebuses are what would be more accurate to compare it to as it became more common around the same time period.
isn't that INT?
dex/agi is the way you move your hands. That should only increase the rate of fire
dark souls does that already desu
>French sources
Yeah, they're not butthurt about their blunder at all
There is no account of a noble frenchman being killed by an english arrow during the hundred years war.
Longbow is good against horses and footmen wearing light armors, for attrition.
It's shit against a fully armored man
>being able to see good means you can aim good
>also means that you have the hand-eye-coordination to hit where you aim at
>dex/agi is the way you move your hands
And with what do you operate a bow? With your hands.
That shit should just determine hit/crit rate.
This, you need a higher poundage bow if you want to do more damage. Being more dexterous isn't going to make your arrows somehow magically gain more momentum.
watch
How would you balance it so it doesn't overpower everything else?
Same goes for the shotgun in games or silenced guns, you have to bend reality in order to have a balanced experience.
That video is bullshit and has long since been debunked.
Lars Anderson is a fraud and what he's doing there is no different than trickshots.
Agincourt was a complete decisive victory for england, that's not the point.
Realities about medieval warfare has evolved a lot in the last decades, but there are still a lot of misconceptions about it. The longbow being a weapon of mass destruction is one of them.
Crossbow was the logical evolution of the bow : more powerful and simpler to use, but had a lot of limitations. The rifles were in the same spirit, but just better after a while
Balance is a false god that needs to die.
In real life, STR would be needed to fully draw the bow and keep it to position to properly aim.
The rest is pure DEX.
Real bows have a poundage requirement. If you cannot pull a 100lbs bow you just can't use it.
Damage: DEX
Chance to hit: DEX. If STR bellow a certain value, you lose accuracy.
Requirement to use: STR. If a bow requires 8 points in STR to use, you need at least 10 to have full accuracy. So requirement is actually 8-10
Usually higher damages means that the arrow hits critical parts of the body, not breaking armor.
Source?
Or maybe you're a fraud.
Ever think about that?
>>The bow is a Dex weapon
Good
And before the quenching process was invented to make hardened steel, English longbows would penetrate straight through armor provided you're using the right type of arrow with a heavy enough draw weight. Not to mention most soldiers had gambesons/mail hauberks rather than donning full plate until late into the hundreds year war. Handgonnes and arquebuses were invented closer to the time period of hardened plate while longbows were a much more primative design.
The longbow was a meme weapon though. The more advance re-curve bows used by horse archers could fire almost as far and with as much power while requiring only a fraction of the strength. For those weapons actual skill with the bow would be much more important than sheer strength.
I already saw the video. It is about trickshots and overall possibilies, not about being able to pierce plate
>fraud
>trick shots
So you're saying they're real but not historical?
oh no
This.
Pulling the string with more strength does not add damage to the bow. After the optimal point you either gain too little more power or you just start damaging the string or the bow itself.
If you need 10 STR to use that bow, having 15 STR do not adds 5 points worth of STR damage.
Meanwhile, being able to aim at the neck with precision instead of shooting at the middle of the armoured torso is kinda of a major difference
The reason the English won the battle of Agincourt was down to the English Longbow, and how effective it was against French infantry. The wooden stakes infront of the longbowmen made it near impossible for French cavelry to attack them, and when the French cav charged, they got pelted by arrows from the Longbows. When the French heavy infantry and regular infantry marched forward, they suffered horrendous casualties due to the arrows from the Longbows.
The English army had nearly no heavy infantry, compared to the French.
>longbow was good before plate armor was created and was still good against not plate armor
Yeah, ok ?
No it's because English made very effective use of terrain, combined with harassing bows to force and the french to attack and/or kill some on the way.
Autism and mud killed the french knights because they tried to charge completely uncoordinated and ended up stuck in the mud between english and french reinforcements.
Dem bodkin points boys
>The more advance re-curve bows used by horse archers could fire almost as far and with as much power while requiring only a fraction of the strength
Bullshit, a Bow is a simple mechanical object it's energy in/energy out the draw poundage of a bow is directly proportional to the power of the bow. Recurve bows are just smaller for their poundage not magically more powerful.
Handgonnes and arquebus are the direct invented counter to HARDENED plate.
The longbow was their predecessor meant to combat pre-quenching proccessed plate armor. That's like comparing a 30 lb draw weight bow from the bronze age to chainmail.
>60 posts
>nobody has posted any sources to support their arguments
wew lads
Turn based: good initiative points due to ranged, but slow turns afterwards.
Real time, action rpg: getting hit just makes you stop drawing the bow, aiming is harder.
If you want fantasy aiming, instead, just reduce damage.
when will people stop demanding realism when it's clearly not needed?
What is your point ? I agree with what you're saying, it's true
Archers are faggots.
>HYW starts with french retardation
>it ends with english retardation
Because what is better than memebows ? CANNONS
the english longbow wasn't a meme weapon because it did it's job very effectively against the armor it was invented to penetrate through. Quenched plate was designed specifically to withstand high draw weight bows.
Plate armor seems like meme tier equipment opposed to modern day weapons as well.
>everything has to be historically accurate because i'm literally autistic as fuck
how is the bow not a dex weapon? You need dex to aim precisely and to quickly grab and nock the the next arrows. Also how are bows noisy? They don't use gunpowder for firing like other ranged weapons
It's a meme weapon because you just need to look at this thread to see that a lot of people think it's the anti tank weapon of the middle ages.
Of course it's good at what it does, but no more than that.
>In many ways, this battle played out like the Battle of Crécy in "reverse".[15] The French guns obliterated the advancing soldiers. It is reported each shot killed six men at a time.
Electric boogaloo : 1453
>Dark Souls 1
>archer is 20 feet tall, blind, and built like a brick shithouse
>blows a legendary dragon right out of the fucking sky with his TOW missle bow and arrow
gough best character
>Also how are bows noisy?
They aren't really loud, but they are not silent either. The wood makes a very distinct sound when it bends back.
>Henry VI of England lost his mental capacity in late 1453, which led to the outbreak of the Wars of the Roses in England. Some have speculated that learning of the defeat at Castillon led to Henry's mental collapse
>you'll never get so salty you let your country start a civil war
>what are compound bows
Bows make close to zero noise when drawing, are you high nigga?
Didn't the Pope try to ban Crossbows because of how overpowered they were?
The French knights started fearing it too because it was taking them out like flies.
Why do all longbow fags know about agincourt but never actually read up on it?
That's a spear
FE weapon effectiveness has always been sword > spear > axe > sword
>fire rate beats punch every day of the week
That's why arquebuses became the rule rather than the exception, right ?
You need dex to handle pretty much any relevant weapon
>*ree longbows a shit -posting intesifies*
okay. say agincourt was just the weather and retardation.
then poitiers, crecy, flanders field all were exactly the same shit then and all events do not form a pattern of
>welsh, scots, irish and english longbowmen > fucking retarded French 'knights' and 'aristocrats'
It's a meme weapon because the people who romanticize them, see most of Sup Forums, do so on the sole events of one battle that was a tactical failure for the french even before you account for the longbows
jesus fuck, a 120 lb draw bow is what they used to hunt fucking game with. a war bow is completely different. archeologists examining the remains of actual archers have shown them to have skeletons that were deformed by the over developed musculature and lifelong career these people worked in.
>drawing
You have to release the bow at some point, user. Also bow string silencers are a thing.
>The English Crown lost all its continental possessions except for the Pale of Calais
>After the effective end of the Hundred Years' War, weakened and traumatised by the defeat, the English never attacked France without the support of a strong coalition.
Losing battles is good as long as you win the war.
About Crécy, tho, it's evident the longbow was effective, but not against knights ! The french went full retards and launched wave after wave without any organization, even letting tired genese crossbowmen firing without their shields.
The only time they pulled an organized attack they crushed the english lines. They were repelled of course but still
Any kind of lifelong physical activity will do that to your body.
even too much sex?
>t Hi! i'm a retard who's only ever heard a modern25 lb target bow in use and have never even seen a medieval composite bow
sure thing. go back to skyrim stealth archer-ing
Neither of those posts imply longbows suck in general only that they suck again heavy armor.
yes. pope fuckwit banned them from being used by christians against christians. when crusade time came around the other pope told everyone to take their cbows and fuck some infidels up.
Game hunting bows are around 30lb-70lb depending on what your hunting. English longbow ranges from about 110lb-140lb I believe.
This guy claiming that it makes a sound when it 'bends back'. That's Hollywood shit. It only makes sound when it snaps to neutral after release and even that sound isn't particularly loud. Here, check how loud the bow is:
youtube.com
Don't tell me this isn't as quiet as shit and nearly impossible to pinpoint in a forest or something.
Eat shit.
The image is correct and you are talking out your ass, like most people in this thread.
